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Canada's Trudeau takes stand against Trump's refugee ban. Options
Blaidd-Drwg
Posted: Sunday, January 29, 2017 8:55:24 AM

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http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38786656

Once again, Trudeau has proven to be a light in the North American darkness. After Trump tried to ban all refugees, excluding those from terrorist countries that Trump has business ties to, Canadian PM Trudeau made sure that those with Canadian passports would not be affected.

Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has taken a stand on social media against the temporary US ban on refugees and immigration from seven Muslim-majority countries.

Mr Trudeau underscored his government's commitment to bringing in "those fleeing persecution, terror & war".

The US Department of Homeland Security said the entry ban would also apply to dual nationals of the seven countries.

However, Mr Trudeau's office says Canadian dual nationals are exempt. "We have been assured that Canadian citizens travelling on Canadian passports will be dealt with in the usual process," a spokeswoman for Mr Trudeau said in an emailed statement.

US President Donald Trump's National Security Adviser Mike Flynn "confirmed that holders of Canadian passports, including dual citizens, will not be affected by the ban," the statement said.

Canada's Immigration Minister Ahmed Hussen is a dual national who arrived as a Somali refugee.
Hope123
Posted: Sunday, January 29, 2017 9:10:37 AM

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I'm glad Trudeau did.

Notably missing from the blacklist, however, are several Muslim-majority countries where Trump has business dealings, according to Bloomberg.

The news organization has put together a map of the proposed suspensions, with the Muslim-majority countries where Trump has business interests—Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and Azerbaijan—rendered in yellow. Check Progpen's link to see the map - Twitter won't let me copy it.

Of course Trump made sure his business interests are protected and not part of the ban. As he said before about not paying any taxes - that's just good business. Boo hoo!

Blaidd-Drwg
Posted: Sunday, January 29, 2017 9:15:32 AM

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Hope123
Posted: Sunday, January 29, 2017 9:31:01 AM

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"But here's the twist — it doesn't include any countries from which radicalized Muslims have actually killed Americans in the U.S. since Sept. 11, 2001."

Proof.
Hope123
Posted: Sunday, January 29, 2017 9:36:07 AM

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Progpen,

I copied my post from last night from the thread "And then there is this".

Developing story - judge bars US from deporting travelers with valid visas

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/judge-bars-us-from-deporting-travelers-with-valid-visas-covered-by-trump-order/

Family quit jobs, school, barred at airport - applied because afraid for lives.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/iraqi-family-stuck-airport-barred-flying-jfk/story?id=45113420

Edited - I hope the judge's order helps this family - story on above link.

"I've been told by the counter officer that we are not allowed to enter United States as per new executive order," Sharif said, as he and his family were stranded in limbo at the Cairo airport. "Our visas are legal and valid until May 2017. And I've received this visa because I put my life in jeopardy working with American government."

Sharif said he worked for RTI International, an NGO that partners with USAID.

"For the terrorists if you work for the Americans you become a target, they consider you an infidel," he said.

He also said that was why he applied for immigration: He was concerned for his and his family's safety.

It took Sharif more two years to receive legal, valid immigration visas for himself and his family and $5,000 for tickets, all of which "went down the drain," he said. They were travelling on a Special Immigrant Visa for Iraqis for the work he did with the U.S. in Iraq."


Republicans are cheering Trump on. I said back when they were choosing a candidate that they all had similar policies, including Trump, so don't expect any help from them.

This family's story will just be collateral damage and will not sway the Republicans. But maybe this hitting their pocketbooks will.

http://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/american-car-buyers-will-pay-price-mexico-tariff-n713321
Blaidd-Drwg
Posted: Sunday, January 29, 2017 9:46:17 AM

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The judge's decision is definitely wonderful news. I'm hoping it becomes permanent.
Romany
Posted: Sunday, January 29, 2017 11:58:49 AM
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Iraq has now countered with a ban and deportation of US nationals.

A national movement initiated yesterday in UK has already gained thousands more than the required signatures in order to prevent our Queen or other Royals having to receive Clumph. The idea of that pussy-grabbing hand touching her is anathema to millions of Brits. His vulgarity and dishonour is an insult many Brits are not prepared to countenance in respect of our Queen or future King.

China is flexing it's considerable muscle; Germany is prepared to defend Europe from him; the entire world is on the brink of war; America itself is a country once more courting a civil war; civillization is in danger of extinction...and there are still people who put their hands up publicly and admit partisanship! Mindlessly repeating utter, utter bullshit, and talking about 'Lefties' or 'Liberals.

Anyone who is still dividing the ENTIRE WORLD into Democrats or Republicans, and gloating over 'their' candidate's win is either a) being deliberately obtuse, b)being deliberately provocative and dedicated to violence and division or is c) intellectually unqualified to vote.

Since the first signature as president one short week ago, how could any sentient being even mention parochial, American definitions any longer with any validity?

No. The the rest of America and the world are NOT 'Liberals.' That 50's definition disappeared in a developing world decades ago. The rest of America and the world have spent centuries of our history learning lessons which illustrate, unarguably, that violence, racism, misogyny,selfishness, war, trying to deconstruct truth,and blind ignorance do not advance human achievement.

Truth, science, honour, humanism, selflessness,culture, logic, peace, rationalism are not the province of any particular political party. They are the norms of all but a tiny sector of an isolated country which is currently regarded as the biggest threat to the planet.

School-yard rhetoric (my Party's better than your Party!) about "Lefties", is irrelevant and time-wasting. Fortunately, as in the wider world, the percentage of people here who don't understand that is tiny. But engaging with them just brings the unrest, malaise, anger etc. all around us.

The #resist movement to which millions are dedicated encompasses liberals, conservatives,academics, the poor, religious communities (even the Pope!), atheists, world leaders, the marginalised and everyone who is dedicated to the concept of peace, unity and tolerance; a lasting and constantly evolving civillisation, and the survival of our planet.

From watching these threads, btw, it more and more seems that those in North America are all already suffering under the media ban - it would be impossible to defend any aspect of McDrumph, nor of being unaware of the extent to which he is regarded as being one of the most evil men ever to be allowed to come to power in America.Nor to be unaware of how your own future is at threat.

Romany
Posted: Sunday, January 29, 2017 4:38:04 PM
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Here's someone who can always be relied upon to lighten the mood and restore perspective:
Hope123
Posted: Sunday, January 29, 2017 11:52:12 PM

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Romany wrote:

Here's someone who can always be relied upon to lighten the mood and restore perspective:


?

Romany, I hope I sleep better tonight. Last evening I had belatedly watched a couple of videos of the inauguration that were floating around online.

They showed how Trump treated his wife that day - hopping out of the car at the White House and leaving her on her own to get out and present the gift. The video was a split screen showing how Obama helped Michelle out and she preceded him up the stairs when they met the Bushes. Then Trump rushed inside first, leaving the Obamas to look after Melania. When she was taken to stand beside him at the ceremony, he barely looked at her while when Michelle was brought beside him, Barack took Michelle's hand and kissed it. Quite the comparison.

But that wasn't the worst - at one point in the ceremony Trump turned around to look at his family behind him. Melania smiled brilliantly, as did his daughter. Trump said a couple of words and when he turned forward, Melania's face fell so quickly to a downtrodden, defeatist, crushed, devastated look. I have never seen such a look before.

Anyhow, I dreamt about her all night - poor woman in that marriage.

https://youtu.be/96Mu0rnkFNY


http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/barack-obama-helps-michelle-out-of-car-while-donald-trump-forgets-melania-w462754
will
Posted: Monday, January 30, 2017 7:10:28 AM
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I genuinely believe that USA policy, particularly foreign and environmental, is now the greatest existential threat we face. I wonder if a travel ban on Americans is now justifiable… Eh?


.
Romany
Posted: Monday, January 30, 2017 9:10:53 AM
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Will - well, if you had read my post you would have seen that at least one country thinks so! While the Petition to prevent his dirty little paws anywhere near our Monarch, i.e. banning HIM and not all Americans, is well over the million mark.(Demeaning our PM by hand-fasting her as if she were a ten dollar hooker was horrifying enough!). Of course one understands that these things are governed by protocol, and a very complicated skein of historical underpinnings, but the fact that, over one weekend a million Brits signed it, sends a pretty clear message. Protests at 6pm this evening in UK by those who are resisting "alternative facts" and "Miss-speaking" all over the country too.

Hope - those clips were all over our media last weekend and caused a helluva discussion. Unfortunately, since then, every day has brought more and more outright danger to the world and the fight for democracy and civilliation has taken over. But yeah, I recognised that expression too. Seventeen years as a battered wife made me an expert! I am not, of course, inferring that the man physically abuses his wife - merely that all women who are cowed by their partners master the same skill.

One thing that puzzzles me now: how come not one person here on TFD has reacted to the fact that last Saturday, hours after the Inauguration, Stumph registered as a candidate for the next election? None of us was familiar enough with American politics on the day to understand what the ramifications of that are. But by the next day American sources had deconstructed the whole thing for us - to our horror. (And also the oft-repeated notion that he himself did not have the capability of working out this 'protection plan' and mystification as to who in his Gang of Thugs had the nous to present the idea to him?).

Yet, in the rarified atmosphere of TFD not one North American poster has even mentioned it? Why not? It's going to give him the means to stop all internal criticism of him as a candidate while he is serving as Pres. which seems rather a problem. Or have we been misinformed by what get-out-of-jail free cards this gives him?

Hope123
Posted: Monday, January 30, 2017 10:51:09 AM

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Romany, I did not know that and did not see that piece of info on any of the three major US networks and I was on Fox News as well. Don't know how I missed it. Maybe Americans don't know either? I guess I should put the BBC app back on.

You are saying that a candidate for presidency cannot be held accountable? The FBI certainly did with Hillary.



[image not available]
will
Posted: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 4:23:31 AM
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Romany wrote:
Will - well, if you had read my post you would have seen that at least one country thinks so!

I did read your post, a tad hyperbolic, but I was basically reinforcing your point with a bit of irony.


.
Romany
Posted: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 7:35:02 AM
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Sorry, Will - did I sound tetchy? I do apologise - and yeah - a tad hyperbolic perhaps. However, remember we aren't on the American continent. Our world-view IS...well, a WORLD view. Yes, of course our hearts go out to all the good people in America trying to cope with this clusterfeck.

However, our focus is, naturally enough, on the future of the entire planet. Already we've seen that one (orange) man has institutionalised racism; devalued truth; torn apart global co-operation; is prepared to use Education as a tool to dumb down an entire nation; is trying to normalise violence not only in his own country but across the world; is determined to put the ecology of our small planet aside for personal gain...and that's in just over ten days.

I think what makes it sound hyperbolic is that, looking forward, we are all aware of how fragile our existence is, and what the consequences will be for all of us if we accept - once again - fascism. From the country with the biggest arsenal in the world.

We aren't, as I've said again and again, particularly interested in American politics. We couldn't give a damn what party is in power just as the average American couldn't give a damn (or is even aware of) what party rules in Australia or France or England. But one hideous man? We are entirely aware - many of us through personal experience - that every Fascist leader has been responsible for war, conflict, the abrogation of human rights, and genocide.

So trying to spell out the risk does indeed sound like overkill. Already we have moved down the scale which signals the risk of nuclear conflict to a dangerous level because of his actions. Yet people are still rabbiting on about Republicans and Democrats in America!(and, depressingly, on our Grammar, Vocab. and General Knowledge threads.) So, people who truly and honestly (while that word still has some currency left) still think it's just about such silly notions as who is on what team in the United States of America, by keeping up this charade, are being both irresponsible and selfish. ('I'm better than you are' thinking).

It's real. One has a responsibility, with people across the world, to stand in solidarity and insist 'Never again'. Are people honestly prepared to see the destruction of civilisation just to prove that 'my gang's better than your gang' in Republican//Democrat spats? If so, that's entirely reprehensible and we all have a duty to RESIST.
Blaidd-Drwg
Posted: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 8:44:55 AM

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will wrote:
I genuinely believe that USA policy, particularly foreign and environmental, is now the greatest existential threat we face. I wonder if a travel ban on Americans is now justifiable… Eh?
.


This will happen, not only to nations directly affected by the administration, but by nations worried about importing US extremists and extremism.
Hope123
Posted: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 12:36:23 PM

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I think Trudeau now has to speak out and not just continue to try show by example. Trump cannot understand anything subtle - you have to hit him on the head with it. For what it was worth, I wrote Trudeau's govt today to say that.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 1:15:55 PM

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Hi Hope.

I think the thing on becoming a candidate while in office is that you can't charge or arrest a president, except in an impeachment case. And then you can't say them in public, because it becomes a 'case in progress'.

Though 'all men were created equal' (it doesn't mention women in that quote) a President in office is different . . .

Quote:
The President cannot, therefore, be liable to arrest, imprisonment, or detention, while he is in he discharge of the duties of his office ...

- Justice Joseph Story, 1833

The Presidential Privilege Against Prosecution from Yale.

One 'minor' thing he's done . . .


[image not available]

In order to get planning permission for his golf-club here, he set up and sponsored an expert group to ensure the enforcement of all legal limits concerning the environment and wildlife.
After the election results were in, a Herald reporter called the Trump company to ask about it and was told that they'd decided it wasn't needed any more. Mo more funding.

Yarin
Posted: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 2:03:00 PM
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Will Canada's Trudeau takes stand against Israeli Settlements?
Romany
Posted: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 4:11:51 PM
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Drago -

But his playpen is on Scottish soil. If he tries to ignore any of the Scottish wildlife/environmental laws of the land he'll be breaking the law and be brought to book on it, won't he? Besides which, of course, the Queen adores Scotland.

Perhaps she'll challenge him to duel it out on the misty hills against one of her parfait knights? Now THAT I'd consider worth hiring a TV set for!
Yarin
Posted: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 5:36:12 PM
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In identifying Muslim-majority countries from which refugees and visas will be blocked because of concerns about terrorism, Trump left out Saudi Arabia. Yet most of those who hijacked airliners to attack New York and Washington DC on 9/11, the deadliest terrorist episode in history, were Saudis.

I find out that Hope has already said it better:
"But here's the twist — it doesn't include any countries from which radicalized Muslims have actually killed Americans in the U.S. since Sept. 11, 2001."

Proof.
Hope123
Posted: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 12:21:46 PM

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http://www.ndtv.com/offbeat/ellen-degeneres-uses-finding-dory-to-make-a-point-about-trumps-travel-ban-1654946?site=full


http://ellentube.com/videos/0_vqejmhmw


"This (Finding Dory) was the film that Donald Trump chose for his first White House screening as US president. While the aquatic adventure entertained Trump's guests, thousands of green card holders, visa holders and pre-approved refugees from seven countries in the Middle East and Africa were kept at airports and taken off flights internationally, after his executive order on Friday afternoon."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/films/2017/01/30/finding-dory-film-tolerance-chosen-donald-trumps-first-white/

Excellent, Ellen!



Hope123
Posted: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 2:35:07 PM

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I have been thinking about what Trudeau can do and still stick to his positve sunny ways. The American people have chosen as is their right, and any executive orders Teump put in will have to be settled the US courts. So maybe Trudeau is wise to stay out of it as he has chosen to do.

However, there is a treaty between Canada and the US that does not allow Canada to accept refugees from the States and I assume vice versa, the theory being those are safe places for everyone to live. But since that is no longer true, Canada could pull the plug on that treaty and allow those who wish to come to Canada. They have been vetted and have Visas so it would not take that much effort.

He could also pull the plug here in Canada and make the backlog on privately sponsored refugees go away by adding more money. And he could have talks about what happened in Quebec and how the hatred towards Muslims has risen over the years in Canada since 9/11. In other words, try to fix our own problem. The terrorists of 9/11 have accomplished more than they ever imagined with that dreadful act.
Romany
Posted: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 3:26:16 PM
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Hope - yep, dire days, indeed.

But, just as I predicted towards the end of the election, we ARE pulling positives out of it! Perhaps he concentrates on those?

The Women's March was the largest worldwide march in history. The Attorney General refused to lie or to endose illegal policy. People from every demographic are uniting in resistance; and the keys have been taken away from him and locked in a big cupboard.

At which the whole world breathed a concerted sigh of (semi) relief!
Hope123
Posted: Friday, February 3, 2017 9:01:43 PM

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8:55 p.m. EST - breaking news thirty minutes ago -

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38864253

Trump travel ban: Seattle judge issues nationwide block.The State Department says 60,000 visas have been revoked since T's ban.

The administration can appeal but it is a major setback for T./B.

::::::

Digression - How can Conservative Christians support T when he has no reverence for anything but himself? Three minutes into his speech at the National Prayer Breakfast on Thursday, DT ridiculed Arnold Schwarzenegger, his successor on The Apprentice. “It’s been a total disaster,” T said. The show’s producer, Mark Burnett, who introduced T at the breakfast, “will never, ever bet against T again,” he continued. "And I want to just pray for Arnold, if we can, for those ratings.”

BTW - Later Schwarzenegger tweeted that he would change jobs with him and then people could be comfortable again.

All T wanted to do was dish out his usual hatred, build himself up, and he had no reverence even for a prayer breakfast.

Even if one disagrees with religious idelogy, people are allowed to use whatever means they need to live their lives and have the beliefs they see fit. i.e. religious freedom to believe or not believe. And one should show reverence in that situation where they are exercising their right.
Romany
Posted: Saturday, February 4, 2017 5:40:37 AM
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Yeah - my son woke me up with the news that the Grown-Ups have finally taken over, and his illegal measures overturned. Well, for now, at least. World leaders also calling a spade a spade (in this case a bloody great shovel!), and pointing out that he can't be allowed to interfere while the adults are talking or else he'll have some of his toys taken away from him.

A great sigh of relief all round.
Hope123
Posted: Saturday, February 4, 2017 11:03:14 AM

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Well, we have to see what happens. I have started a new thread about children denied US surgery and CDN Nexus card holders with their privileges removed.
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