mailing list For webmasters
Welcome Guest
It seems to me that I have always existed and that I possess memories that date back to the Pharaohs. Options
Daemon
Posted: Tuesday, May 3, 2011 12:00:00 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/7/2009
Posts: 32,148
Neurons: 95,622
Location: Inside Farlex computers
It seems to me that I have always existed and that I possess memories that date back to the Pharaohs.

Gustave Flaubert (1821-1880)
kitten
Posted: Tuesday, May 3, 2011 2:16:36 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 12/28/2009
Posts: 2,463
Neurons: 7,420
Location: the city by the bay
Daemon wrote:
It seems to me that I have always existed and that I possess memories that date back to the Pharaohs. Gustave Flaubert (1821-1880)



The above quote is from a series of letters exchanged between Gustave Flaubert and George Sand. Below is the first few sentences from the, Introduction. The following is from, the Letter I- L, and the quote in context, is below in bold.


The correspondence of George Sand and Gustave Flaubert, if approached merely as a chapter in the biographies of these heroes of nineteenth century letters, is sufficiently rewarding. In a relationship extending over twelve years, including the trying period of the Franco-Prussian War and the Commune, these extraordinary personalities disclose the aspects of their diverse natures which are best worth the remembrance of posterity.




XX. TO GEORGE SAND Croisset, Saturday evening, 1866

Your sending the package of the two portraits made me think that you were in Paris, dear master, and I wrote you a letter which is waiting for you at rue des Feuillantines.

I have not found my article on the dolmens. But I have my manuscript (entire) of my trip in Brittany among my "unpublished works." We shall have to gabble when you are here. Have courage.

I don't experience, as you do, this feeling of a life which is beginning, the stupefaction of a newly commenced existence. It seems to me, on the contrary, that I have always lived! And I possess memories which go back to the Pharaohs. I see myself very clearly at different ages of history, practising different professions and in many sorts of fortune. My present personality is the result of my lost personalities. I have been a boatman on the Nile, a leno in Rome at the time of the Punic wars, then a Greek rhetorician in Subura where I was devoured by insects. I died during the Crusade from having eaten too many grapes on the Syrian shores, I have been a pirate, monk, mountebank and coachman. Perhaps also even emperor of the East?

Many things would be explained if we could know our real genealogy. For, since the elements which make a man are limited, should not the same combinations reproduce themselves? Thus heredity is a just principle which has been badly applied.

There is something in that word as in many others. Each one takes it by one end and no one understands the other. The science of psychology will remain where it lies, that is to say in shadows and folly, as long as it has no exact nomenclature, so long as it is allowed to use the same expression to signify the most diverse ideas. When they confuse categories, adieu, morale!

Don't you really think that since '89 they wander from the point? Instead of continuing along the highroad which was broad and beautiful, like a triumphal way, they stray off by little sidepaths and flounder in mud holes. Perhaps it would be wise for a little while to return to Holbach. Before admiring Proudhon, supposing one knew Turgot? But le Chic, that modern religion, what would become of it!

Opinions chic (or chiques): namely being pro-Catholicism (without believing a word of it) being pro-Slavery, being pro-the House of Austria, wearing mourning for Queen Amelie, admiring Orphee aux Enfers, being occupied with Agricultural Fairs, talking Sport, acting indifferent, being a fool up to the point of regretting the treaties of 1815. That is all that is the very newest.

Oh! You think that because I pass my life trying to make harmonious phrases, in avoiding assonances, that I too have not my little judgments on the things of this world? Alas! Yes! and moreover I shall burst, enraged at not expressing them.

But a truce to joking, I should finally bore you.

The Bouilhet play will open the first part of November. Then in a month we shall see each other.

I embrace you very warmly, dear master.




The George Sand-Gustave Flaubert letters. <<<<<< For the above--please thank >>>>> www.online_literature.com


peace out, >^,,^<
thar
Posted: Tuesday, May 3, 2011 3:50:18 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/8/2010
Posts: 22,813
Neurons: 92,675
why is flaubert addressing George Sand as 'master'? Wasn't she female?

(and kitten, thanks for putting these in context, it gets me to read things I otherwise wouldn't, and makes me a little less uncultured!!) Applause
1dreamer
Posted: Tuesday, May 3, 2011 4:15:11 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 4/14/2011
Posts: 49
Neurons: 147
Location: by the lake
First: why Daemon always talk with another person´s voices?
Second: why Kitten change his avatar? I prefer the other one. ;D
Third: It seems to me that Flaubert is not wrong but it´s very difficult remember anterior lives when you are not the same person. I think we are all sons of our parents, a mixture of our mother and father and ambiental conditions such as nature, friends, education, self-education, etc. Then, it´s possible that we only remember what our ascendents learnt.
If what Flaubert says it´s true, why around the world there are millions of people in this days? It has no sense.
It only has sense if we have a lot of children. And they have the genetical heritage of their parents, but life conditions mentioned before are not the same than the parents have had.
So...who was first, the egg of the chicken?
MTC
Posted: Tuesday, May 3, 2011 4:26:43 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 1/18/2011
Posts: 2,780
Neurons: 8,606
According to the Editor of the letters, "He (Flaubert), with a playful deference to the sex and years of his friend, addresses her in his letters as 'Dear Master.'” Flaubert was seventeen years Sand's junior.

I find the idea behind Flaubert's quotation about reincarnation similar to the idea behind his quotation posted on April 2nd, namely the omniscient author viewpoint.

"It is a delicious thing to write, to be no longer yourself but to move in an entire universe of your own creating. Today, for instance, as man and woman, both lover and mistress, I rode in a forest on an autumn afternoon under the yellow leaves, and I was also the horses, the leaves, the wind, the words my people uttered, even the red sun that made them almost close their love-drowned eyes."

Flaubert the author extends himself in space and time to cover all possibilities of existence.
pedro
Posted: Tuesday, May 3, 2011 4:57:30 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 5/21/2009
Posts: 13,057
Neurons: 63,022
'It seems to me that I have always existed and that I possess memories that date back to the Pharaohs'


sounds like the grandiose delusions of an advanced syphilis sufferer to me
1dreamer
Posted: Tuesday, May 3, 2011 5:31:38 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 4/14/2011
Posts: 49
Neurons: 147
Location: by the lake
pedro wrote:
'It seems to me that I have always existed and that I possess memories that date back to the Pharaohs'


sounds like the grandiose delusions of an advanced syphilis sufferer to me


Eh?

What exactly was absurd to Voltaire? Mankind itself maybe?
blueberry
Posted: Tuesday, May 3, 2011 5:42:38 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 10/1/2009
Posts: 31
Neurons: 93
He sure did exist. I remember meeting him.
Applause
Joseph Glantz
Posted: Tuesday, May 3, 2011 6:02:24 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/18/2009
Posts: 2,036
Neurons: 6,040
Location: United States
Guess we'll have to ask Shirley Maclaine for the truth.
Marissa La Faye Isolde
Posted: Tuesday, May 3, 2011 9:20:40 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/10/2009
Posts: 1,647
Neurons: 4,678
I think you will have to go out on limb in order to do that. :)
wercozy
Posted: Tuesday, May 3, 2011 11:31:05 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/1/2009
Posts: 1,470
Neurons: 3,480
Location: United States
Pedro, you beat me to it. I was going to say, "that was delusional."
Olavi
Posted: Tuesday, May 3, 2011 2:56:47 PM

Rank: Newbie

Joined: 5/3/2011
Posts: 1
Neurons: 3
Interesting; a man who can remember his past lives. Of course those deeply steeped in materialism and having been indoctrinated by the foolish western culture since their crib days would decry any such notion as man being a spirit and having eternal existence.Brick wall
excaelis
Posted: Tuesday, May 3, 2011 4:26:03 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/30/2010
Posts: 10,965
Neurons: 32,652
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
It seems to me that I have always existed and that I possess memories that date back to the Pharaohs.

Yeah. I feel like that some mornings.

Bacardi and Tizer: What was I thinking !? d'oh!
jcbarros
Posted: Tuesday, May 3, 2011 8:55:57 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 5/14/2010
Posts: 2,363
Neurons: 9,377
What was his metier back there, in the Ancient Egipt?
excaelis
Posted: Tuesday, May 3, 2011 9:16:31 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/30/2010
Posts: 10,965
Neurons: 32,652
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Psyph-al-Itak Akhen-Ass ?
DHeavyOne
Posted: Tuesday, May 3, 2011 9:31:01 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 11/6/2009
Posts: 124
Neurons: 378
Location: Canada; Ontario; Collingwood
Wow!! When I saw today's quote, I had NO idea it would actually spurn this much conversation......just didn't seem worthy of the time....

...how wrong was I?

It seems to me that he's trying to do nothing more than to appear to understand the idea of existentialism, while being listened to at a cocktail party given by some socialite of the day (Ayn Rand just turned over in her grave).

...but that's just my opinion....he he he.

I suppose if I took the time to read those wonderful contextual posts of Kitten's, I may develop some perspective beyond my "simple" point of view, but I like to fly by the seat of my pants and see how I do.....and I NEVER read the end of the book first.....
DHeavyOne
Posted: Tuesday, May 3, 2011 9:34:45 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 11/6/2009
Posts: 124
Neurons: 378
Location: Canada; Ontario; Collingwood
...ok....I read the context!

Brick wall


Yep....he's just being silly, I think.
kitten
Posted: Wednesday, May 4, 2011 5:11:25 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 12/28/2009
Posts: 2,463
Neurons: 7,420
Location: the city by the bay
thar wrote:
why is flaubert addressing George Sand as 'master'? Wasn't she female?

(and kitten, thanks for putting these in context, it gets me to read things I otherwise wouldn't, and makes me a little less uncultured!!) Applause



You are very welcome. I like to look things up. Some of the above quotes are interesting because I can't find them or when I do they aren't considered "sourced" or are "misattributed." I always wanted to be one of those girls in "Desk Set." Anxious


peace out, >^,,^<
wercozy
Posted: Wednesday, May 4, 2011 2:10:47 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/1/2009
Posts: 1,470
Neurons: 3,480
Location: United States
"Interesting; a man who can remember his past lives." If this is so, why can't the rest of us (99.9%) remember our past lives?

"I feel like that some mornings." Would that be under the influence, or a hang-over?
excaelis
Posted: Wednesday, May 4, 2011 5:19:56 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/30/2010
Posts: 10,965
Neurons: 32,652
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
A bowl of Cheerios always slides down better with an espresso and black sambucca.

Or you can skip the Cheerios...
HWNN1961
Posted: Wednesday, May 4, 2011 9:51:50 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 2/13/2010
Posts: 3,494
Neurons: 9,763
Licked one too many postage stamps I suspect.
TYSON
Posted: Wednesday, May 4, 2011 11:19:10 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/7/2009
Posts: 1,258
Neurons: 3,793
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Phlip K Dick had a similar feeling. I think his was somewhere in the Roman times. Around 2000 years bce, something like that. But he was a little loopy sometimes.
Marissa La Faye Isolde
Posted: Wednesday, May 4, 2011 11:19:16 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/10/2009
Posts: 1,647
Neurons: 4,678
I think Flaubert is saying that Man is more than just the latest, passing, trend/ idea etc. that is in vogue. He has an ancient history embedded in his bones, and is a composite of all that has passed before his present time. Man now is all that was.

If man could know or understand all that has encompassed his soul and made him what he is, one could have a better insight into the enigma of his being.

I think he is being playful and mocking, but at the same time serious,(Flaubert alludes to his seriousness when he mentions his paper on the dolmens) implying that G. Sand's belief that Man is a new born creature that has just risen from the sea with the latest, greatest, theories etc. is superficial and perhaps naive--a shallow understanding of what man is all about, and is far more complicated than falling into step with the current thinking and fads.

Just because something is modern (no matter how idiotic it is) does not mean we know and understand what we are talking about...or that it is true just because it is new.

Sometimes going backward we can learn more about truth and wisdom and who or what we are then speculating into the future without any clues. Truth and wisdom so not change with each new generation.
kitten
Posted: Thursday, May 5, 2011 12:07:42 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 12/28/2009
Posts: 2,463
Neurons: 7,420
Location: the city by the bay
Firstly, Gustave is not one of my favourite people only because of his admitted sneakiness.Shame on you But he is an articulate writer which is the heart and soul of him.

The period in time when he was born they told and listened to history through stories and during this period there was much to tell. They told stories of the bible to their children and families orated these stories that were handed down from generation to generation. Those who were rich enough or lucky also had books or access to books.

Gustave is not saying in the quote he is the Pharaoh. He is weaving himself into the tales and stories he has heard and read.


It seems to me, on the contrary, that I have always lived! And I possess memories which go back to the Pharaohs. I see myself very clearly at different ages of history, practicing different professions and in many sorts of fortune. My present personality is the result of my lost personalities. I have been a boatman on the Nile, a leno in Rome at the time of the Punic wars, then a Greek rhetorician in Subura where I was devoured by insects. I died during the Crusade from having eaten too many grapes on the Syrian shores, I have been a pirate, monk, mountebank and coachman. Perhaps also even emperor of the East?.........

Don't you really think that since '89 they wander from the point? Instead of continuing along the highroad which was broad and beautiful, like a triumphal way, they stray off by little sidepaths and flounder in mud holes. Perhaps it would be wise for a little while to return to Holbach. Before admiring Proudhon, supposing one knew Turgot? But le Chic, that modern religion, what would become of it!



He was a boatman on the river Nile. Now that was certainly higher than some other profession but he was still a labourer. A boatman made a little better money as this was a fast mode of transportation. Who knows what cargo he carried. His taxi could have carried the living, the dead or wares for someone else to sell.

During the Punic wars or the wars between Rome and Carthage he was a weaver of cloth. That is what a "leno" is or means. We still have fabrics to this day called 'leno weaves' they are some of my favourite fabrics as the pattern is tone on tone, and quite lovely.

The next time he is a Greek living in a lower-class area of Rome, who tells stories in a notorious red-light district, as that is where and what Subura was known for. It was also home where the, 'Great Julius Caesar' grew up as the Subura district grew around his family home before his birth. So, this teller of stories, who could have been a writer but I believe an orator as paper was for the rich, died a death and was devoured by insects.

He was a pirate who stole, a monk who revered, a mountebank aka a charlatan or swindler and a coachman who carried those about and helped them into the coaches, cleaned the horses, stowed luggage and listened to more stories.

He tells tales of himself as a labourer or worse and only likens himself in the end, as a fantasy, to an Emperor of the East, as that was something unknown at that time and he could dream about the grandeur.

When he mentions "'89" to his master, George Sand, he is speaking of what we now call "Bastille Day." Because on July 14th, 1789---they, the French, stormed the Bastille and abolished the 'absolute Monarachy' and adopted the 'constitutional monarchy,' which greatly changed the landscape, they had dreams of democracy for themselves but more importantly it included the elimination of privileges for the nobility AND the clergy.

George Sand was born fifteen years after the revolution and he thirty-three years. And in that time he is expressing that the change that those fought and died for had gone off track. He is asking if the return of the atheist, Holbach, should come back and write a little to remind them of, the French bourgeoisie. Because, Proudon, who came after, was a believer in, mutualism, socialism and anarchism, but perhaps they needed a few words from, Turgot, who expressed as early as 1750 " that the only alternative to radical reform was still more radical revolution." He is questioning where the idealism went. <<<<< all information is found on TFD, please thank them.



In those two short paragraphs he covers great wars, the beheading of a King and Queen, the era of 'Enlightment' and so much more including his dreams of being a labourer hoping for more. Perhaps as those who stormed the Bastille did.


peace out, >^,,^<
Marissa La Faye Isolde
Posted: Thursday, May 5, 2011 12:36:22 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/10/2009
Posts: 1,647
Neurons: 4,678
To Kitten:

Magnificent!:)
kitten
Posted: Thursday, May 5, 2011 9:26:12 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 12/28/2009
Posts: 2,463
Neurons: 7,420
Location: the city by the bay
Marissa La Faye Isolde wrote:
To Kitten:

Magnificent!:)



Thank you. The letters he writes to George Sand are a good read and cover a lot about history in a way.

He truly was a man who thought of the "perfect word" before he penned it.

I have a saved copy of "Madame Bovary" it shows on one side his handwritten work and the other the copy, both are filled with cross outs and word changes. My French is not at all good but I would love to read the orginal with the crossed out words and thoughts.


peace out, >^,,^<
Marissa La Faye Isolde
Posted: Friday, May 6, 2011 1:04:19 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/10/2009
Posts: 1,647
Neurons: 4,678
Perhaps someday you shall. :)

I love Flaubert's writing too.
Users browsing this topic
Guest


Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.