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Hope123
Posted: Friday, October 7, 2016 8:10:43 PM

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-recorded-having-extremely-lewd-conversation-about-women-in-2005/2016/10/07/3b9ce776-8cb4-11e6-bf8a-3d26847eeed4_story.html

It is irrefutable proof of his attitudes towards women.

He was married to his third wife at the time. I feel sorry for her even if she has millions.


FounDit
Posted: Friday, October 7, 2016 10:23:18 PM

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Really?
This is nothing compared to what men say when they are apart from women on construction sites, locker rooms, all male military barracks, or partying with their friends.

But never let it be said that Democrats will miss an opportunity to burnish the shields of their faux moral superiority at every opportunity. And you all are going to pretend offense after the conversation we just had here about vaginas, pussies, and sheaths? ... Shame on you

Sex with an intern in the White House, anyone? Enabled by the wife who trashed talked the "bimbos". Give me a break...
Blaidd-Drwg
Posted: Friday, October 7, 2016 11:06:43 PM

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Hope123 wrote:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-recorded-having-extremely-lewd-conversation-about-women-in-2005/2016/10/07/3b9ce776-8cb4-11e6-bf8a-3d26847eeed4_story.html

It is irrefutable proof of his attitudes towards women.

He was married to his third wife at the time. I feel sorry for her even if she has millions.


Looks like he kinda-sorta-but-not-really apologized.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-apology_us_57f80c2ae4b068ecb5de5f33

Poor guy. He must just feel awful.
Hope123
Posted: Saturday, October 8, 2016 12:53:45 AM

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It wasn't just trash talk. The worst thing he said was not slang for genitals - it was that his "stardom" puts him beyond needing consent!

He thinks he's "God's gift to women" and can do what he wants. Even "grab them by the pussy".
That's sexual assault.

Also, he is obviously always on the make and bragged about trying to get sex with a married woman (smart woman to turn him down) - and all this is just months after marrying his third wife. Billy Bush played along.

Trump's pastor says it was before he got "spiritual influences" in his life. LOL

Bill Clinton was caught and punished. At least this time Republicans know in advance that they would be putting a womanizer+ in the Oval Office - and don't care - yet they cared when Clinton was caught. Boy did they care. I thought the hearings were never going to end. As usual. I heard they set him up. No woman keeps a dress with semen on it and doesn't get it cleaned.

This video is not just a one-off. It is the tail end of all the slurs and nasty things he says publicly to anyone who is in competition with him or disagrees with him, but especially to women and minorities. He said lewd and inappropriate remarks while working on the reality show "The Apprentice". I was not surprised when I saw the video. Yet he says, "Nobody has more respect for women than me". I think his self-image is just a wee bit off. He has affluenza. And a sense of entitlement because of his father's money.

Any apology is too little, too late. But it wasn't even an apology - Trump said he was sorry some people had taken offense ― not for being offensive.

He can't even admit he was wrong about the "Central Park Five". Four black and a Latino young teens, 14-16, were finally exonerated by DNA evidence and the confession of another man to whom the DNA belonged, of raping and brutally beating a white woman in Central Park. Trump still claims they were guilty.

:::::::

I believe my husband when he says he has not and would not engage in that kind of talk even when younger and with his buddies. And he worked in construction and drove truck as summer jobs when he was in school. He's a self confident man who treats everyone with respect, yet is no pushover.

Furthermore, IMCO, engaging in that kind of talk encourages and is what helps to create disrespectful attitudes and even behaviors of some men towards women. The smutty objectification creates hostile environments for women.

Many in the GOP are condemning his attitudes - Paul Ryan disinvited Trump to campaign with him tomorrow. I guess Democrats are not the only ones with '"faux moral superiority".

"Trump was also criticized by members of his own party.

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/gop-piles-donald-trump-over-remarks-women-n662276

House Speaker Paul D. Ryan, who said he is “sickened” by Trump’s comments, said the Republican presidential candidate will no longer appear with him at a campaign event in Wisconsin on Saturday." WPost. Finally!

FD, Hillary is running, not Bill. And I would have probably trash talked any bimbo who went after my married man. I would have kicked him out too - but Hillary managed with hard work and, I heard, marriage counseling to salvage the marriage in spite of the hurt - and I give her good marks for that.

Edited to add - So the double standard is that it's ok for Trump to trash talk but not for Hillary to trash talk women who had injured her. It's all right for him to go after her husband and marriage, accusing her of not being faithful, but not all right for her and others to call him up for this video, his name-calling of several individual women, and his own failed marriages and affairs.
Oscar D. Grouch
Posted: Saturday, October 8, 2016 2:09:59 AM

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From a prior post "Trump the misogynist."

Quote:
"Do we really want a president that refers to women as a "piece of ass?"

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/06/the-mind-of-donald-trump/480771/

> Hoping to uncover the man behind the actor’s mask, Singer tried a different
> tack:
>
> "O.K., I guess I’m asking, do you consider yourself ideal company?"
>
> "You really want to know what I consider ideal company?," Trump replied.
> "A total piece of ass." "
Oscar D. Grouch
Posted: Saturday, October 8, 2016 2:11:48 AM

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Joined: 6/26/2014
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Add Melanija to your order...

Internet dating or shopping for a better piece of ass?


Axel Bear
Posted: Saturday, October 8, 2016 2:58:44 AM

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Joined: 4/5/2015
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FounDit wrote:
...This is nothing compared to what men say when they are apart from women on construction sites...


And maybe this is the reason these men are working on construction sites and not running for president of the USA.



ps. men on construction sites do a good job. Kudos. Just don't run for office if you have this attitude.


Oscar D. Grouch
Posted: Saturday, October 8, 2016 7:44:04 AM

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The new Mr. Yuk!

keangal
Posted: Saturday, October 8, 2016 8:51:13 AM

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The bag of deplorable continue to make excuses for him...that's what stunning.Brick wall
FounDit
Posted: Saturday, October 8, 2016 10:19:35 AM

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Hope123 wrote:
It wasn't just trash talk. The worst thing he said was not slang for genitals - it was that his "stardom" puts him beyond needing consent!
I guess you haven't heard of "groupies"?

He thinks he's "God's gift to women" and can do what he wants. Even "grab them by the pussy".
That's sexual assault.
This is exactly the kind of attitude that can be created when women become groupies, and literally throw themselves at people in the entertainment world. I know you are familiar with this as movie stars and all manner of TV personalities have attested to it, so it can't be strange to you. But this is your assessment of his mind-set. You don't know that he did it, just that he talked about doing it. Men talk a lot about things that never happened...LOL.

Also, he is obviously always on the make and bragged about trying to get sex with a married woman (smart woman to turn him down) - and all this is just months after marrying his third wife. Billy Bush played along.
So? Married men don't talk, brag, or fantasize after they are married? Get real. And most men find all kinds of women attractive and desirable, married or not. It is still only talk. You don't know if it really even happened.

Trump's pastor says it was before he got "spiritual influences" in his life. LOL
I have to agree with you on this. It's dumb.

Bill Clinton was caught and punished. At least this time Republicans know in advance that they would be putting a womanizer+ in the Oval Office - and don't care - yet they cared when Clinton was caught. Boy did they care. I thought the hearings were never going to end. As usual. I heard they set him up. No woman keeps a dress with semen on it and doesn't get it cleaned.
Clinton was NOT punished. He is still held in high esteem, paid millions of dollars just to speak, and nothing was done to him. And yes, the Republicans did care, and the Democrats did not. Apparently, cheating on one's wife in the White House is okay with Dem's, or cheating period with any number of women. It's okay if the wife defends hubby.

This video is not just a one-off. It is the tail end of all the slurs and nasty things he says publicly to anyone who is in competition with him or disagrees with him, but especially to women and minorities. He said lewd and inappropriate remarks while working on the reality show "The Apprentice". I was not surprised when I saw the video. Yet he says, "Nobody has more respect for women than me". I think his self-image is just a wee bit off. He has affluenza. And a sense of entitlement because of his father's money.
He's leaning to be a politician like Bill and Hillary -- lie if necessary. That's too bad. They're rubbing off on him.

Any apology is too little, too late. But it wasn't even an apology - Trump said he was sorry some people had taken offense ― not for being offensive.
True, it's not a real apology. If the little snowflakes can't handle it, too bad.

He can't even admit he was wrong about the "Central Park Five". Four black and a Latino young teens, 14-16, were finally exonerated by DNA evidence and the confession of another man to whom the DNA belonged, of raping and brutally beating a white woman in Central Park. Trump still claims they were guilty.
Irrelevant to the topic.

:::::::

I believe my husband when he says he has not and would not engage in that kind of talk even when younger and with his buddies. And he worked in construction and drove truck as summer jobs when he was in school. He's a self confident man who treats everyone with respect, yet is no pushover.
Well, I don't know. Maybe your husband is telling you the truth, or just the truth he knows you want to hear. We do that sometimes, you know. At any rate, yes, there are guys who don't participate in that kind of braggadocio, for one reason or another, but they certainly have heard it. All I'm saying is that this kind of talk goes on a lot with groups of men.

Furthermore, IMCO, engaging in that kind of talk encourages and is what helps to create disrespectful attitudes and even behaviors of some men towards women. The smutty objectification creates hostile environments for women.
Yes, that is true. But it is also true that in a great many cases, it is just talk. But since Trump worked alongside construction workers in his youth, and given the ease with which women make themselves available to wealthy men, it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that he might engage in that kind of talk, or think that it is easy to get women.

Many in the GOP are condemning his attitudes - Paul Ryan disinvited Trump to campaign with him tomorrow. I guess Democrats are not the only ones with '"faux moral superiority".

"Trump was also criticized by members of his own party.

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/gop-piles-donald-trump-over-remarks-women-n662276
Ryan is an establishment Republican, so he is threatened by Trump. Therefore, he has to play the CYA game. But yes, both sides play that game if they think it will help them win elections.


House Speaker Paul D. Ryan, who said he is “sickened” by Trump’s comments, said the Republican presidential candidate will no longer appear with him at a campaign event in Wisconsin on Saturday." WPost. Finally!
O-o-oh, that will show him! LOL.

FD, Hillary is running, not Bill. And I would have probably trash talked any bimbo who went after my married man. I would have kicked him out too - but Hillary managed with hard work and, I heard, marriage counseling to salvage the marriage in spite of the hurt - and I give her good marks for that.
I heard it was just the opposite; that she threw a fit because he was threatening her political future, which is all the marriage is based on in the first place. That's why she covers for him. But I could be wrong. Don't think so, however.

Edited to add - So the double standard is that it's ok for Trump to trash talk but not for Hillary to trash talk women who had injured her. It's all right for him to go after her husband and marriage, accusing her of not being faithful, but not all right for her and others to call him up for this video, his name-calling of several individual women, and his own failed marriages and affairs.

Hillary didn't just "trash talk" the women. She went after them to destroy them. But the real point is that Hillary has enough crap on her plate, she has no place to criticize anyone else.

In the end, I don't think it will matter. Those who support each candidate will still remain loyal, and those opposed will still trash talk. And the dance goes on.
TL Hobs
Posted: Saturday, October 8, 2016 4:21:32 PM
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BBC reported today that Trump's wife has condemned his remarks. I wonder how his daughter feels, knowing that her father likes to debase women. Maybe she already knew it and didn't care. Maybe she is proud of him for it.

How does he do so much groping with such little hands?

No matter how big a pile of stinking dung he makes, the Republican whores will line up and make excuses for him and attempt to clean up his messes with impunity.

I'm surprised he hasn't found a way to blame it on President Obama, yet. After all, everything is always his fault.



Blaidd-Drwg
Posted: Saturday, October 8, 2016 4:48:04 PM

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Poor guy just can't catch a break. Some Republicans are even asking him to drop out of the race.
http://www.dw.com/en/republicans-distance-themselves-from-trump-after-vulgar-comments-revealed/a-35995214
Hope123
Posted: Saturday, October 8, 2016 6:29:44 PM

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Wow FD - "the groupies" excuse has nothing to do with my conversation about Donald Trump and consent. Even groupies need to give consent.

Plus an atmosphere of 'she's asking for it' is no excuse to generalize.

My point was that it's the WAY they talk that creates the attitudes - be it ever thus. Whether or not it happened is not the point - it's his attitude. Also, he is in a position of power with his wealth, and WOULD BE taking advantage IF he did act. (See comments below about Bill.) Actually we don't even need this video - there are plenty of others of his crude behavior to anybody who gets in his way. With his mouth, he would be another Duterte in international affairs.

I expected he might have been doing his usual over-inflated ego bragging in this video, although with all the details about furniture shopping and her phony tits now, he did make it sound convincing. I could be wrong but I bet there was at least some truth in it, but as I said, whether or not it happened is beside the point.

Hillary makes her case for policies. He makes his campaign through scandals as he has no policies, as even those he does talk about change daily. I hope he does go after her about her marriage. She's ready for it.

This was one scandal he didn't do on purpose, but where was his vetting committee before he ran that they didn't know about this tape?
Hope123
Posted: Saturday, October 8, 2016 6:35:06 PM

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FD, the remaining thoughts are my own opinions about a couple of topics you brought up. I am not making any comments as to what you meant or didn't mean.

You may not know but I do know my own husband after all these years. I'm not so naive as to think that my husband has never lied to me, or that groups of men (and women) don't often talk like that. Children learn to lie around age two. Adults just get better at it. Also, I'm sure you are right that my husband has heard such talk, but there really are some men who don't need to prove they are a man and don't need to join in. That's what locker room talk is - bragging to the guys to prove you are a man. It used to be thought that a real man doesn't kiss and tell. Maybe that's old-fashioned now.

There is nothing wrong with either gender fantasizing about others while married. Men shouldn't think that women don't do it too. But fantasizing in general is not the topic here. It is the attitude. And he's on thin ice when he accuses Hillary of Bill's misdeeds as it is she who is running plus we do know Trump had affairs, and his first wife downgraded a charge of rape to 'rough sex'. Nobody knows exactly what happened (as in any marriage) but she did divorce him.

His third wife, Melania herself, says, (his words) "are unacceptable and offensive to me.” The public should accept that, as their marriage is really nobody else's business. (Even his own running mate would not support his comments and didn't try to spin it.)
Hope123
Posted: Saturday, October 8, 2016 6:40:02 PM

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FD, I agree with you about his followers not being swayed. However, the Republicans and swing voters are moving to Hillary.

I am still just owning my opinions and not commenting on yours except for this line -" But the real point is that Hillary has enough crap on her plate, she has no place to criticize anyone else." I could just exchange the position of the names to make it true. And by far Hillary made more attempt to discuss policy, which is what debates are supposed to be to show the public.

I could go find all kinds of both Republicans and Democrats with the morals of an alley cat who got caught and their wives stood by them. But I'm not going to waste time doing that. And yes I do believe Bill Clinton's problem with his zipper should have been between him and his wife. It had nothing to do with how he did his job. Or it wouldn't have until they impeached him, at the same time distracting the country from its business. That's his punishment. The humilation of impeachment and that the only legacy he will have is to be remembered for using the wrong brain, when he did accomplish some good in his tenure.

I level the same charge against Bill Clinton as I would do against Trump IF he used your defence of 'groupies' throwing themselves at him. Bill was in a position of power and took advantage of it, although she said she was in love. He shouldn't have tried to use semantics to get out of it. That was lying. I'm sure the Democrats wished he hadn't been so stupid, but that the government should be looking at whether or not he was doing his job. What he did is what comes of a sense of power and entitlement. And if people are now willing to overlook that and pay him good money for his time, I guess there are quite a few of us who think it was nobody else's business to begin with. There have always been rumors that it is 'just a political marriage’ but nobody knows what goes on in ANY marriage and it is nobody's business. Certainly not Trump's or the public's. See above re comments about Trump and Melania's marriage being nobody's business.

Again, Bill is not running.

Hillary being human may (I wasn't there) have used her power to try to destroy the women, but don't forget if you are going to use that against her, that there is proof that there are many, many people Trump knowingly actually did destroy financially in his bid for the almighty dollar.


If Republicans really cared about cheating in the White House, they wouldn't be willing to put such a man there now. And a lot of them aren't.

Gimme a break - his lying began long before he learned to be a politician. Actually, he hasn't learned. That's why many say he is liked. They like his 'rough edges' and ’braggadocio'. (He has been snubbed by 'old-money' and that has bugged him all his life according to reports from friends. There is more class system in the US than is thought but that is for another topic.)

:::::

LOL - after this sex tape aired, to requests for him to withdraw from the presidential race, he said, "I've never withdrawn in my life."
Lotje1000
Posted: Sunday, October 9, 2016 10:30:53 AM

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FounDit wrote:
Really?
This is nothing compared to what men say when they are apart from women on construction sites, locker rooms, all male military barracks, or partying with their friends.

But never let it be said that Democrats will miss an opportunity to burnish the shields of their faux moral superiority at every opportunity. And you all are going to pretend offense after the conversation we just had here about vaginas, pussies, and sheaths? ... Shame on you

Sex with an intern in the White House, anyone? Enabled by the wife who trashed talked the "bimbos". Give me a break...


What is truly reprehensible here is this post.

Is Trump a misogynistic ass? Of course. We all knew that already. However, people like FounDit making up "excuses" like this is the very reason why people like Trump get to where they are.

I'm not sure which is sadder: generalizing this behaviour to all men in a ridiculous attempt to make Trump seem not that bad, or pushing the focus to sneer at Democrats or Hillary. Or maybe comparing the mention of vaginas with misogynistic behaviour. Yes, truly those conversations are on the same level.
FounDit
Posted: Sunday, October 9, 2016 10:30:53 AM

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Hope123 wrote:


Again, Bill is not running.
But if Hillary wins, Bill will be in the White House, again!. Look out interns!


If Republicans really cared about cheating in the White House, they wouldn't be willing to put such a man there now.
Amen! That’s one reason they don’t want Hillary to win. It puts Bill back into the White House…LOL.


You mentioned Hillary’s policies, but I’m not aware of any policy successes she has had. She is running on continuing Obama’s policies, but all of his have been a failure. The only thing he succeeded at was creating ISIS.

We have the weakest economic recovery in memory, 94 million people out of the labor force not even looking for work, more people on gov’t benefits than ever, more people working (two or more) part-time jobs, no wage increases in decades, more taxes, more regulations, more businesses closing, worse race relationships, no leadership, etc.,…the list goes on.

Hillary lists all the things that are wrong that she wants to fix, but if she and Obama could fix them, why haven’t they done so already? They’ve had eight years to do so. The list of problems she talks about has been caused by the very same Democrat party she is a part of. She will only continue this.

Obama said he wanted to fundamentally transform the Nation, and he did. We’re worse off now than when he took office, and for myself, I’ve had enough of his transformation. I’m ready to go in a different direction. So if the choice is between a lying woman who wants to continue on the same path, and a successful businessman who isn’t a polished politician, I’ll go with the person who has demonstrated success, in spite of his crude talk.

As the saying goes, talk is cheap, and politicians are all talk, Hillary being no exception. I’m ready for something different. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity, and we’ve been doing that for too long now with politicians. Perhaps a successful businessman is just what is needed. I can only vote and hope.



Hope123
Posted: Sunday, October 9, 2016 4:21:46 PM

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NUCLEAR WEAPONS

Russia is deploying nuclear-capable missiles in Kaliningrad.

Here's Donald's policy on nuclear weapon use.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/what-does-donald-trump-really-think-about-using-nuclear-weapons-n655536
Hope123
Posted: Sunday, October 9, 2016 4:34:24 PM

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I'm glad you post your thoughts here, FD. However, I see several major problems with your long list of assertions/opinions. I always like to include data and sources, but it makes my posts so long. So I'll answer four major points separately - and do not plan to spend any more time here.

UNEMPLOYMENT

Your 93 million unemployed number is the same as Trump's. Politifact says this -

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/aug/31/donald-trump/donald-trump-says-us-has-93-milion-people-out-work/

Quote - "Trump said, "We have 93 million people out of work. They look for jobs, they give up, and all of a sudden, statistically, they're considered employed." (93 million of 325 million is 29 %)
That figure, boosted by Trump’s description, represents a basic misunderstanding of the labor market.
Once you strip out full-time students, senior citizens, the disabled, and those who have chosen not to work to take care of their children, a more reasonable estimate of "out of work" Americans is somewhere in the neighborhood of 21 million, or less than a quarter of Trump’s figure.
Meanwhile, he is flat wrong that the government reclassifies discouraged workers as "employed."


We rate his claim as false." End quote. .


:::::::

Politifact is more in tune with the figures below.

Your claim that Obama did nothing to help increase jobs is false. This is what has happened in 8 years. It is not worse now than when he took office. In fact the figures are exactly reversed - 9.4% to 4.9%.

"June 09, 2009.
The number of unemployed persons increased by 787,000 to 14.5 million in May, and the unemployment rate rose to 9.4 percent. Since the start of the recession in December 2007, the number of unemployed persons has risen by 7.0 million, and the unemployment rate has grown by 4.5 percentage points.

US Jobless Rate Unchanged at 4.9% in August 2016
US unemployment rate was recorded at 4.9 percent in August 2016, unchanged from the previous two months while missing market expectations of 4.8 percent. The number of unemployed persons was flat at 7.8 million and the labor force participation rate stood at 62.8 percent."

Here's a more nuanced view of US unemployment that economists look at.

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/06/03/charts-whats-the-real-unemployment-rate.html

These rates on this website reflect the unemployed, the underemployed, and the discouraged, on the chart. In 2009 it was close to 18% with that definition, and around 10% now. I don't have figures to compare Canada's but it is probably also relative to actual rate.

Even 10% of 325,000,000 people, including babies and children, is a third of the 93 million Trump quotes - to sensationalize and mislead. I can't copy the chart.

The US is not an island as much as Trump and now Hillary, who was forced into it, would like it to be. All economies are tied globally and other countries see similar fluctuations. Canada's unemployment rate went from 8.9% to 7.1 % in the same time period - 2.2% higher than that of the US in 2106. "Unemployment Rate in Canada averaged 7.71 percent from 1966 until 2016. Unemployment Rate in the United States averaged 5.82 percent from 1948 until 2016."

We also have a lot of people working two or more part-time jobs. The US is not alone in that. As for a complaint about no wage increases - Republicans won't even increase the minimum wage as Obama wants.

Economists are focusing on wages and labor now the Unemployment rate is back to pre-recession figures. A rise in Unemployment rate could mean that the discouraged are now looking again. The feds are thinking about raising the interest rate again, a good sign about the economy.
Hope123
Posted: Sunday, October 9, 2016 4:40:47 PM

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TAXES

"Among OECD countries, only Chile and Mexico collected less than the United States (24%) as a percentage of GDP. In many European countries, taxes exceeded 40 percent of GDP. But those countries generally provide more extensive government services than the United States does." Canada is around thirty percent.

And yet Republicans claim there are too many socialist policies.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/how-do-us-taxes-compare-internationally


And if the government does not provide services you want and spread the cost as is the reason why we buy all kinds of insurance, then you pay it anyway out of your own pocket. And you may go bankrupt or homeless in the process.

Has Trump suggested taking out loopholes of tax relief for corporations that work abroad? Of course not. He's lowering their tax rate from 35 % to 15 %, his overall plan costing the country trillions - adding to the great existing debt, a lot of which was created getting out of the last recession in 2008.

http://taxfoundation.org/article/details-and-analysis-donald-trump-tax-reform-plan-september-2016
Hope123
Posted: Sunday, October 9, 2016 4:54:11 PM

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ISIS

The assertion that Obama created ISIS is the pure simplistic Republican propaganda that Yarin spreads.

https://youtu.be/pzmO6RWy1v8 - How ISIS arose - a video of 6 illustrated minutes.


If Bush had not toppled Saddam Hussein there would be a different story.

Obama originally increased the US forces in Afghanistan before he withdrew. NATO also withdrew. The problem was in getting the local forces trained.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2016/01/26/the-u-s-was-supposed-to-leave-afghanistan-by-2017-now-it-might-take-decades/

Obama had the support of congress and the people for his plans to withdraw.

http://www.pewresearch.org/daily-number/majority-support-quick-troop-withdrawal-from-afghanistan/ - average citizen view -

"Congress has also expressed support for a quicker withdrawal. On November 30, 2011, the US Senate adopted a measure by voice vote in favor of an accelerated US military withdrawal from Afghanistan. In May 2012, 90 Members of Congress joined Rep. Barbara Lee in calling upon President Obama to expedite the withdrawal. And in November 2012, the Senate voted 62-33 in favor of a measure that calls upon President Obama to continue withdrawing US troops at a steady pace, to end all regular US combat missions in Afghanistan no later than December 31, 2014, and to "take all possible steps" to end such operations earlier."

::::::::::

OTHER

It is true that race relations and racism are more apparent, especially since Trump started his violence-inducing rhetoric, icluding two hints about Hillary's safety. Obama has had the greatest number of threats against his person than any other sitting president.

The rest of the complaints are also right out of the Republican prayer book, which is fine if you're a Republican.

So Obama had eight whole years to fix everything that took decades to produce, and without the support of Congress? Actually with active measures to block everything he does, including his right to nominate to the Supreme Court? Wow. Eight whole years!
Hope123
Posted: Sunday, October 9, 2016 5:01:43 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
Posts: 9,325
Neurons: 53,297
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
TRUMP IS NOT A SUCCESSFUL BUSINESSMAN

Trump is not a successful businessman. These comments are from a man who wrote an anti-Hillary book, Tim Miller, who is a Republican, who says he is putting his country before party.

(Trump lies ten times the rate of Hillary and he's not successful. Any money he does have he got from his family, by not paying his taxes, both income tax and property taxes he had reduced when Christie took office, by not paying his workers what he owed them (I hear his campaign staff are complaining about not being paid), by conning people, by taking profits from Trump university while delivering nothing, and what looks suspiciously like a bribe to not have it investigated, by selling his name, and by being in entertainment.)

Quote -
"1. Trump Is Conning You

Whatever it is that Donald Trump has sold you, it’s a lie.

Lie one - He's a winner/great businessman: He’s not. Besides The Apprentice, he hasn’t had a business success in decades. This is a guy who managed to lose money running a casino! Ever heard of the Tour de Trump, Trump Steaks, Trump Lubricating Gel, Trump Airlines, Trump Vodka? No? Well, all of those things are real except one and they were all dismal failures. The one thing Trump is purportedly skilled at is real estate, right? Well, Trump started a mortgage company in April 2006. Take a moment to appreciate the monumental stupidity of starting to sell mortgages right as the housing market was beginning to crash and take down the entire economy. The guys in The Big Short had foreseen the crash one whole year earlier. As a businessman, Trump is a loser and a fraud.

Lie two - He cares about the working man, not the elites: Every single Trump product is made overseas. Trump ties, shirts, everything. At his luxury resort in South Florida, he still to this day uses foreign workers. He says “it’s very, very hard to get [Americans] in Palm Beach.” At a resort. He will sell workers out in a second. He has (done that) his whole life.

The Supreme Court needs a conservative: I promise you Trump can’t even name anyone on the Supreme Court list he released in September. He’s as likely to pick Omarosa as a conservative jurist.

Supporting Trump for president would be no different from signing up for Trump University. He made students promises, they gave him time and money, but in the end all they had to show for it was a phony degree. Don’t be conned. End quote. Paraphrases next.

2. He will not govern as a conservative. He's a New York Liberal. The only policy he's been consistent on is immigration. (Not sure about the wall.)
3. He is not anybody's friend because he has no real-life friends. Every perceived slight puts others at risk. Try to think of a character trait he has that you want your child or grandchild to emulate.
4. Trump Is the Most Dangerous Nominee on Foreign Policy of Either Party Since World War II
5. Trump Has No Respect for the Constitution - he says he alone can fix it, has targeted journalists who disagree, and advocated a certain religious group not be allowed to travel.

Can you see him telling the Supreme Court, "Screw you. I'll do it anyway. The people love me." Of course you can.


Listening . . .
Posted: Sunday, October 9, 2016 8:01:29 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/30/2011
Posts: 964
Neurons: 3,950
When I cast my vote, it is strictly for the purpose of voting against Hillary Clinton. I have to do my part so the movement of America goes more toward smaller government and less regulation. The direction we are currently headed is going to suffocate the American dream. Believe it or not, TRUMP is the better choice. (In all honesty, I wish we had Ross Perot back from 1992!) By the way, I thought about it very carefully, I am not a deplorable. (How awful that someone could call me such a name...Think ).
twinsonic
Posted: Sunday, October 9, 2016 8:23:38 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/18/2009
Posts: 356
Neurons: 1,322
Listening . . . wrote:
When I cast my vote, it is strictly for the purpose of voting against Hillary Clinton. I have to do my part so the movement of America goes more toward smaller government and less regulation. The direction we are currently headed is going to suffocate the American dream. Believe it or not, TRUMP is the better choice. (In all honesty, I wish we had Ross Perot back from 1992!) By the way, I thought about it very carefully, I am not a deplorable. (How awful that someone could call me such a name...Think ).


Well, when I cast my vote it will be for the purpose of helping ensure Trump loses! I don't much care for Clinton, but Trump is an actual danger to our country.

"Deplorable" isn't so "awful!" It only means "deserving condemnation," and "shockingly bad in quality." Continuing to support a man like Trump is cause for condemnation in my eyes. It's a "bad quality" of person who can overlook Trump's character flaws (to put it mildly!), and complete disregard for anything but his own interests.
Listening . . .
Posted: Sunday, October 9, 2016 8:36:09 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/30/2011
Posts: 964
Neurons: 3,950
twinsonic wrote:
Listening . . . wrote:
When I cast my vote, it is strictly for the purpose of voting against Hillary Clinton. I have to do my part so the movement of America goes more toward smaller government and less regulation. The direction we are currently headed is going to suffocate the American dream. Believe it or not, TRUMP is the better choice. (In all honesty, I wish we had Ross Perot back from 1992!) By the way, I thought about it very carefully, I am not a deplorable. (How awful that someone could call me such a name...Think ).


Well, when I cast my vote it will be for the purpose of helping ensure Trump loses! I don't much care for Clinton, but Trump is an actual danger to our country.

"Deplorable" isn't so "awful!" It only means "deserving condemnation," and "shockingly bad in quality." Continuing to support a man like Trump is cause for condemnation in my eyes. It's a "bad quality" of person who can overlook Trump's character flaws (to put it mildly!), and complete disregard for anything but his own interests.


Well, Twin, if your candidate wins I will fully support her. I hope you will do the same if my candidate wins. It's about time we all get back to looking at the bigger picture. Agreed? I don't appreciate being defined as a deplorable by you but ... if that's easier for you, that's fine. I won't be calling you any names.
Hope123
Posted: Sunday, October 9, 2016 8:43:49 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
Posts: 9,325
Neurons: 53,297
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
Listening, you were in the group in the second half of the sound bite that the media cut off. There ARE a group of deplorables who support him, perhaps not half, but you and FD are in the other group she mentioned. You both have thought carefully and made your decisions, which is as it should be.
::::
"Here’s what she said that caused the uproar: “You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the ‘basket of deplorables.’ Right? The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic — you name it. And unfortunately, there are people like that, and he has lifted them up.”

She went on to talk about others who support Trump, saying they are worthy of empathy and understanding. She described them as people who feel “that the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures, and they’re desperate for change.”

That latter characterization aptly captures an important part of the dynamic of the 2016 campaign, and it is one important reason Trump became the Republican nominee and remains competitive in the general election. But Clinton so muddied the focus on the grievances of many Americans who feel left behind with the first part of what she said that she has landed on the defensive, and undersltandably so."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/clintons-deplorables-remark-sums-up-a-deplorable-election-season/2016/09/10/78977694-777b-11e6-be4f-3f42f2e5a49e_story.html



Listening . . .
Posted: Sunday, October 9, 2016 9:02:32 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/30/2011
Posts: 964
Neurons: 3,950
Thank you, Hope, for the clarification and for the support that I am not likely in the half of the group that is "deplorable." I still find it inexcusable that a Presidential candidate would classify any of the American voters in such a way. Edit: I just read this. Guess her "apology" was because she meant to include all of his supporters. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2016/09/09/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-basket-of-deplorables/index.html?client=safari Anxious

What do you think about this story? - http://www.snopes.com/hillary-clinton-freed-child-rapist-laughed-about-it/. Think
Oscar D. Grouch
Posted: Monday, October 10, 2016 3:01:52 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/26/2014
Posts: 1,021
Neurons: 1,360,872
Listening . . . wrote:
Thank you, Hope, for the clarification and for the support that I am not likely in the half of the group that is "deplorable." I still find it inexcusable that a Presidential candidate would classify any of the American voters in such a way.


So, the neonazis that support trump for the white house aren't deplorable? Give me a break. They should all be among the first to attempt to colonize Venus.

Just do a search for trump on their forum.

http://vnnforum.com/

trump is their man of the year.
pedro
Posted: Monday, October 10, 2016 6:47:41 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 5/21/2009
Posts: 13,057
Neurons: 63,022
For what it's worth I think it was a last ditch attempt to trap Hillary into making harsh comments so that he could retort with a barrage about Bill. He was already on a downward slide (but then again I said similar about Brexit)
Blaidd-Drwg
Posted: Monday, October 10, 2016 8:37:28 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/2/2015
Posts: 2,133
Neurons: 466,013
Location: Zimmerman, Minnesota, United States
Oscar D. Grouch wrote:
Listening . . . wrote:
Thank you, Hope, for the clarification and for the support that I am not likely in the half of the group that is "deplorable." I still find it inexcusable that a Presidential candidate would classify any of the American voters in such a way.


So, the neonazis that support trump for the white house aren't deplorable? Give me a break. They should all be among the first to attempt to colonize Venus.

Just do a search for trump on their forum.

http://vnnforum.com/

trump is their man of the year.


I think everyone should have sites like this bookmarked, because everyone should be aware of and understand that freedom of speech also applies to the stupid, malicious, morally retarded rantings of pathetic deviants. Letting malicious idiots speak does not give them power. Education, information and exposure to the world gives people power. Educate and give people opportunities to grow and they will not become the drooling, snarling masses.
Listening . . .
Posted: Monday, October 10, 2016 9:10:30 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/30/2011
Posts: 964
Neurons: 3,950
progpen wrote:
Oscar D. Grouch wrote:
Listening . . . wrote:
Thank you, Hope, for the clarification and for the support that I am not likely in the half of the group that is "deplorable." I still find it inexcusable that a Presidential candidate would classify any of the American voters in such a way.


So, the neonazis that support trump for the white house aren't deplorable? Give me a break. They should all be among the first to attempt to colonize Venus.

Just do a search for trump on their forum.

http://vnnforum.com/

trump is their man of the year.


I think everyone should have sites like this bookmarked, because everyone should be aware of and understand that freedom of speech also applies to the stupid, malicious, morally retarded rantings of pathetic deviants. Letting malicious idiots speak does not give them power. Education, information and exposure to the world gives people power. Educate and give people opportunities to grow and they will not become the drooling, snarling masses.


Progpen, I completely agree with your entire post (Applause Applause Applause ) minus the first sentence. By encouraging everyone to read such garbage, you are giving voice to that awful site. Oscar has given power to their voice, not his, by providing that link. I have never seen that site before...and I intend on never visiting again.
TL Hobs
Posted: Monday, October 10, 2016 12:51:24 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/16/2009
Posts: 1,399
Neurons: 6,101
Location: Kenai, Alaska, United States

Listening . . . wrote:
By the way, I thought about it very carefully, I am not a deplorable. (How awful that someone could call me such a name...Think ).


While on a recent visit to a "Red state" I passed by a house with the yard covered with Trump/Pence signs. On the wall was a Confederate flag with a Nazi swastika on it. I asked a friend who lives nearby about the resident and was told that he was on the registered sex offender list. Of course he is. I should have guessed.

I believe he was one of the deplorable people to which Mrs. Clinton referred. If you do not associate yourself with this guy, then her comment wasn't addressed to you.

However, I agree with her that people like the one described above is deplorable. How fortunate for him that he lives in the US, where he can freely express such sentiments. How sad for us to have him in our midst.




Listening . . .
Posted: Monday, October 10, 2016 1:53:31 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/30/2011
Posts: 964
Neurons: 3,950
TL Hobs wrote:

Listening . . . wrote:
By the way, I thought about it very carefully, I am not a deplorable. (How awful that someone could call me such a name...Think ).


While on a recent visit to a "Red state" I passed by a house with the yard covered with Trump/Pence signs. On the wall was a Confederate flag with a Nazi swastika on it. I asked a friend who lives nearby about the resident and was told that he was on the registered sex offender list. Of course he is. I should have guessed.

I believe he was one of the deplorable people to which Mrs. Clinton referred. If you do not associate yourself with this guy, then her comment wasn't addressed to you.

However, I agree with her that people like the one described above is deplorable. How fortunate for him that he lives in the US, where he can freely express such sentiments. How sad for us to have him in our midst.



TL, thank you for your thoughtful post. To be clear, I most certainly do not associate myself with people like the one you have described. This is where in lies the flaw...everyone wants to define all Trump supporters using the least attractive supporter. Hillary is no different - she regrets saying half of Trump's supporters are deplorable. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2016/09/09/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-basket-of-deplorables/index.html?client=safari. I am quite the opposite of the person you have described and, yet, I am choosing the same candidate for President. He is not perfect by any stretch of the imagination but, when compared to what Hillary will provide the country, he will be better.
Hope123
Posted: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 6:27:25 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
Posts: 9,325
Neurons: 53,297
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
Listening, I don't understand why you are asking me what I think about Hillary doing the best job she could as a defence lawyer. It seems pretty cut and dried on Snopes.

What would you would think if the lawyer had been anybody but Hillary?


Snopes - "WHAT'S TRUE: In 1975, young lawyer Hillary Rodham was appointed to represent a defendant charged with raping a 12-year-old girl. Clinton reluctantly took on the case, which ended with a plea bargain for the defendant, and later chuckled about some aspects of the case when discussing it years later.

WHAT'S FALSE: Hillary Clinton did not volunteer to be the defendant's lawyer, she did not laugh about the case's outcome, she did not assert that the complainant "made up the rape story," she did not claim she knew the defendant to be guilty, and she did not "free" the defendant."

The transcripts show that when she laughed, it was NOT directed at the victim. In one case it was about the reliabilty of lie detector tests. I read the transcripts where she had laughed appropriately as any ordinary human might. She had even tried to get the judge who appointed her to remove her from the case but that was denied.

::::

"Deplorables" doesn't even begin to compare with the Trump campaign charges against Hillary supporters. "So his party detractors are insiders, quislings, and to believe his campaign manager Kellyanne Conway, sexual harassers." (Quisling means traitor. I lost the link for the quote.) Where is the outrage for that?

Conway, his own campaign manager, called Trump supporters 'skeeze' and 'downright nasty' on the radio!!! I don't even know what skeeze is.
Hope123
Posted: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 6:32:19 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
Posts: 9,325
Neurons: 53,297
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
Back to the OP - Athletes and sports journalists who frequent locker rooms say that kind of conversation is rare in the spaces they frequent. Colin Jones said, "That's not locker room talk. That's sexual assault talk." Trump has now insulted most men too. But the problem won't ever go away whether he's elected or not unless all men stop any of that kind of talk when it happens.

Trump was talking about Nancy O'Dell as the married woman who turned him down - and then was bragging that he didn't even need to ask???

Billy Bush lost his job for his part in it. Trump has not suffered in the polls.

Plenty of women have accused Trump of sexual misbehavior. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donad-trump-women-consent_us_57fb1be3e4b0e655eab5a095

In this election atmosphere, if it is fine to assume Bill is guilty of anything more than affairs because he's been accused of it, then it is fine as well to assume Trump is guilty of more than affairs because he's been accused of it too.

Hillary, the actual candidate, was the victim of her husband's indiscretions, yet Trump in his reality show before the debate, used women (who were paid by Roger Stone to appear, and if they had an affair, they knew he was married so it is not all one-sided) to opportunistically try to make a point for himself personally. He hypocritically throws Hillary and Bill under the bus now when he supported both of them on tape at the time of the impeachment. Trump hypocritically accuses Bill of infidelity when he did the same. He uses people and then discards them when they don't suit his purposes.

As for the woman accusing Bill of rape, if you want someone to believe your accusation, don't change your story about whether or not it happened.

Researchers have searched thoroughly and it is hearsay - there is no public record of Hillary being nasty or trying to destroy the women. FounDit once said something like she stayed in her marriage for political reasons. The rationale would be that if she had political aspirations for herself back then, that Bill would be a liability after that happened.

:::

As for the last debate, pundits said Trump had 20 minutes of substance for a 90 minute debate - with a scorched earth bullying, prowling performance. Also, someone should get Trump a Thesaurus - I lost count of how many times he used the word 'disaster' in 90 minutes.

Quite often in an election people want change, which is understandable, as long as it is the right kind of change by the right person.

Trump had been a Democrat until it suited his purposes to run as a Republican - and he has just severed ties with Republicans. He has lied so how do you know he will even implement the conservative policies such as smaller government? It is already known he is cutting taxes for the wealthy and corporations which will drive up the taxes of the middle class, drive up the cost of products, and drive up the debt by trillions. This is surely not what is meant by good for the country.
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