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Jyrkkä Jätkä
Posted: Friday, April 1, 2011 5:30:15 PM

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Slavery still exists, although in theory it has now been outlawed in all countries, haven't it?
tootsie
Posted: Friday, April 1, 2011 6:09:47 PM

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I'm not that clever JJ but I watch documentaries on TV and I do believe that you are right, only it's not classed as slavery these days - it's kidnap and forcing kids and their parents into submission against their will for a monetary gain - what is the difference ? It has always been wrong, but, please, how do we put an end to it ?
chuckc4th
Posted: Friday, April 1, 2011 6:34:27 PM
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Unless one is independently wealthy (ie has sufficient wealth to live off the investment income or annuity) or owner of a self contained farm, we are to some extent all 'wage slaves' - gotta do what it takes to make a living.

Having said that, I believe real slavery still happens, primarily in the sex trade.
chuckc4th
Posted: Friday, April 1, 2011 6:40:10 PM
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US State Dept and US Department of Justice both have related web pages.

www.state.gov/g/tip/
www.justice.gov/olp/human_trafficking.htm

The TIP acronym stands for trafficking in persons.
Jyrkkä Jätkä
Posted: Friday, April 1, 2011 7:27:34 PM

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I was inspired to post while watching (once again) the great movie "Amistad".
That film still makes me shiver.
HWNN1961
Posted: Friday, April 1, 2011 8:20:02 PM
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Jyrkkä Jätkä wrote:
I was inspired to post while watching (once again) the great movie "Amistad".
That film still makes me shiver.




I agree with you J.J. It was a highlight of Anthony Hopkin's distinguished career when he played John Quincy Adams. His summation speech during the trial will always give me goosebumps. It was a masterpiece.

And, sadly, slavery still exists. That may be a source for dismay, but, that evil still exists should rather inspire action, not despair.
tootsie
Posted: Friday, April 1, 2011 8:20:46 PM

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I was further inspired by a TV Serial "ROOTS", I have yet to see Amistad but Schindlers List made me so aware of man's inhumanity to man.... Kitten, where are you ?
jcbarros
Posted: Friday, April 1, 2011 8:31:31 PM

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What is the point of having slaves if you can have underpaid workers. Much more profitable!
Intrigued_by_origins
Posted: Friday, April 1, 2011 9:42:15 PM
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Jyrkkä Jätkä wrote:
Slavery still exists, although in theory it has now been outlawed in all countries, haven't it?


"hasn't it"
Toddey65
Posted: Friday, April 1, 2011 9:53:24 PM
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If you think about it we all are slaves. Nobody can just get up and do what they want and stretch their freedom. Everybody has responsibilities and is accountable for their actions, therefore we all are limited and therefore slaves. For instance, Charlie Sheen is not exempted from enthrallment, he also is accountable for his debauching. When he is older he will still have that on his resumé and will still be on people's conscious.

Somebody mention earlier that wealthy people are not enslaved, but they actually are accountable for their actions. A wealthy man cannot say I raped a girl and killed her afterwards, and not be expected not accountable for that. Even if he pays off judges and whatever as long as the people know they won't let him get away.

Rejoice in Slavery my Friends!Dancing
Christine
Posted: Friday, April 1, 2011 11:43:12 PM
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Toddey65 wrote:
If you think about it we all are slaves. Nobody can just get up and do what they want and stretch their freedom. Everybody has responsibilities and is accountable for their actions, therefore we all are limited and therefore slaves. For instance, Charlie Sheen is not exempted from enthrallment, he also is accountable for his debauching. When he is older he will still have that on his resumé and will still be on people's conscious.

Somebody mention earlier that wealthy people are not enslaved, but they actually are accountable for their actions. A wealthy man cannot say I raped a girl and killed her afterwards, and not be expected not accountable for that. Even if he pays off judges and whatever as long as the people know they won't let him get away.

Rejoice in Slavery my Friends!Dancing


"Rejoice in Slavery my Friends!Dancing" sickShame on you

Everybody knows about sex slaves whether it is young woman or children.
HWNN1961
Posted: Saturday, April 2, 2011 12:20:57 AM
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Point taken, Christine. Slavery isn't to be made light of. Human souls are being abused. Every right-thinking person should rise up on their behalf.
abcxyz
Posted: Saturday, April 2, 2011 3:11:51 PM
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Jyrkkä Jätkä wrote:
I was inspired to post while watching (once again) the great movie "Amistad".
That film still makes me shiver.


I watched it for the first time when I was 8 or 9 years old. It gave me nightmares for weeks. Brilliant movie, excellent direction and acting. Djimon Hounsou's portrayal of Cinque is the best I've ever seen. Acting doesn't get any better than that.
Cat
Posted: Saturday, April 2, 2011 3:42:00 PM

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Toddey65, I disagree with you. Not being able to do whatever we want is not slavery. It is self-control.

I am not a slave because I can leave a bad relationship, bad job, scary neighborhood, etc. Living life within the confines of a society is not enslavement as it is my choice.

Tovarish
Posted: Sunday, April 3, 2011 2:26:50 AM
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Location: Booligal, New South Wales, Australia
In Australia we have found illegal immigrants, usually Asian, working in the sex industry.

They are enslaved to the criminals who brought them to this country illegally.

Under the pretext of being able to get citizenship for these poor girls, in the future.

There are also illegal immigrants working in the fruit industry, picking fruit for a minimum wage and housing.

The growers are part of the fraud.

They are all words, fraud, slavery, sex industry, it really doesn't matter.

Someone in a position to control and have power over another, is a form of slavery.
intelfam
Posted: Sunday, April 3, 2011 5:11:40 AM
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jcbarros wrote:
What is the point of having slaves if you can have underpaid workers. Much more profitable!


You may have something there. It costs money to keep slaves, in housing, supervising and feeding them. It may well be economically better to "employ" them at a figure below that cost - it also hides slavery by moving it out from under the definition people use. This is not to demean the horrors of what we call slavery, merely to ponder whether it has changed its form to keep it under the radar?
Tovarish
Posted: Sunday, April 3, 2011 5:54:51 AM
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I think of slavery every time I hear Amazing Grace sung.

Written by a repentant slaver.
kitten
Posted: Sunday, April 3, 2011 6:55:06 AM
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Tovarish wrote:
I think of slavery every time I hear Amazing Grace sung.

Written by a repentant slaver.



Thank you Tov,

I was just getting ready to publish this tid-bit.

The History of Amazing Grace. <<<< youtube

Amazing Grace sung in Cherokee <<<<< youtube


I have been giving the OP's question some serious thought whilst I read the posted comments and looked into the history of slavery.

I have as usual, found all sorts of information, and the information provided on TFD is a good read on, Amazing Grace.


peace out, >^,,^<



Tovarish
Posted: Monday, April 4, 2011 4:48:39 AM
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Thank you Kitten, they were lovely sites.
Toddey65
Posted: Monday, April 4, 2011 6:32:30 PM
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Cat wrote:
Toddey65, I disagree with you. Not being able to do whatever we want is not slavery. It is self-control.

I am not a slave because I can leave a bad relationship, bad job, scary neighborhood, etc. Living life within the confines of a society is not enslavement as it is my choice.



I agree with you, my previous post was rather incoherent and I really do not think we all are slaves. I was stretching the word slavery and I really don't want to do that so I recant my former (incipient) position.
Cat
Posted: Monday, April 4, 2011 8:33:57 PM

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Thanks for the clarification, Toddy65.
Romany
Posted: Tuesday, April 5, 2011 6:38:28 AM
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Tov and Kitten,

While wandering round a small village close to my families home, I went inside to visit the small parish church and shelter from a sudden shower with my Uncle Dick.

As soon as I walked in Amazing Grace started going round and round in my head. (I'm not a Christian, btw.) Then, damn me, if my Uncle doesn't start whistling it. Whistling! In a Church!

I glared at him and, when we got outside, told him that, even though he'd sung in a church choir all his life, it was a bit off to wander round a strange church whistling. He looked at me as though I were mad and said he'd never done such a thing. Ever. And, more importantly, not this afternoon.

It was only when we got back that my Aunt figured out we must have walked to Olney (which proved to be correct)...and you know who was once the Vicar of Olney Church, don't you?

Amazing incident.
Tovarish
Posted: Tuesday, April 5, 2011 6:43:01 AM
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Goose bumps Romany!
kitten
Posted: Tuesday, April 5, 2011 7:23:30 AM
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Tovarish wrote:
Goose bumps Romany!



Agree---

[image not available]
Romany!
blue2
Posted: Tuesday, April 5, 2011 8:09:27 AM

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Romany wrote:


It was only when we got back that my Aunt figured out we must have walked to Olney (which proved to be correct)...and you know who was once the Vicar of Olney Church, don't you?

Actually, no.


Amazing incident.


Shivers!!
Romany
Posted: Monday, April 11, 2011 10:08:47 AM
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blue 2 - sorry (seem to be saying that a lot, lately) didn't get back to this thread till now. Busy.

John Newton, the chap who wrote Amazing Grace (a reformed slaver)was the vicar of Olney and it's there that he wrote, probably in conjunction with William Cowper, Amazing Grace.

And yeah, my Uncle used to jokingly (I think) make the sign against the Evil Eye when he saw me after that! But my Aunt and my mother - with a rather colourful family history behind them - only gave a shoulder shrug and said "Meh".
kitten
Posted: Monday, April 11, 2011 10:29:20 AM
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What is the sign of "an evil eye?"

I wear a bracelet that has a small evil eye that my daddy gave me. Most Greek babies have evil eyes pinned to them and wear them later in life, at least the people I know. Anxious Shhh


I am still giving JJ's question of slavery some more thought. As I think it still exists and the sexual trade is only a part of it.


peace out, >^,,^<
DarkMoon
Posted: Monday, April 11, 2011 11:36:35 AM

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A few days ago, while skimming through the CNN website, I came across this documentary The Dark Side of Chocolate with a few words of comments enclosed, and other interesting links concerning given issue as well. I think that the news about child labour, as one of mentioned forms of modern-day slavery, are seriously alarming. I was aware of being this form of slavery, though I didn't realize its so tremendous scale. Numbers speak for themselves.
Romany
Posted: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 3:59:08 AM
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Kitten - I've been told that the sign against the evil eye varies in some countries: - what I was describing was when one clenches the fists except for both forefingers and then rubs the right forefinger lengthways down the left one. Presumably as Evil is also referred to as The Left Hand Path, the object is to use the Right (good) hand to cancel out the Left(bad) path. Actually, never thought about how the sign came about before, though.
HWNN1961
Posted: Wednesday, May 4, 2011 12:04:30 AM
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Someone mentioned in this thread that Cinque's character was acted well. I just guranteed a sleepy day tomorrow by renting Amistad on my way home tonight. I have to agree. That was some powerful acting.

There is a peculiar form of amnesia in the USA. Some people seem to want our past unpleasantness between the states to be about anything, so long as it isn't slavery.

Watch the movie. Read about the times. It was ALL about slavery. Darn us all if we ever let the liars rewrite history!

thar
Posted: Wednesday, May 4, 2011 1:29:14 AM

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In reference to the OP:

A woman was recently convicted in the UK ( I think the charge was trafficking, because she brought the girl into the country) basically for keeping a girl as a slave.

UK conviction for modern-day slavery
LONDON, March 17, 2011 – (AFP) A former hospital director who forced an African woman to work 18 hours a day became the first person in Britain to be convicted of “modern-day slavery.”

Saeeda Khan (Photo), 68, was forced to pay 49-year-old Mwanahamisi Mruke, who was trafficked from Tanzania in 2006, 25,000 pounds (40,000 dollars, 28,750 euros).

She was spared a prison sentence, but Rivlin said that this was due to her own ill health and the fact she has two adult disabled children.

“You could easily have afforded to pay her a reasonable sum by way of wages,” said judge Geoffrey Rivlin during sentencing at London’s Southwark Crown Court.

Mruke was initially paid 10 pounds per week, but this allowance was stopped within a year.

Khan, who was found guilty of trafficking a person into the UK for exploitation, forbade Mruke from leaving the house in Harrow, north west London, and fed her two slices of bread a day.

The court had heard how Mruke was brought to Britain after working at a hospital in Dar Es Salaam in Tanzania, which Khan owned.

Mruke told the court that she would wake up at 0600 GMT and then clean, garden, cook and go for walks with Khan’s sons before finally being allowed to sleep on a mattress in the kitchen at around midnight.

Earlier, prosecutor Caroline Haughey told Southwark Crown Court: “From the moment of her arrival in England Mwanamisi was made to sleep, work and live in conditions that fall by any understanding into that of slavery.”


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-12710481

Human rights groups think there are several thousands of women brought into the UK as domestic servants, by rich Arab, Asian and African families, who are basically slaves. Their employers promise them wages but fail to pay, take their passports, beat them, and control their families back home. Often they are subject to rape and sexual as well as physical abuse. They do not get help because
- they are never allowed to leave the house or compound
- they have no passport and have been told to fear the UK authorities
- they do not speak English
- they are afraid of being killed

there have been cases of domestic workers being starved or beaten to death by their employers, and investigations found they were basically slaves, but I cannot remember the details.

The awful thing is these Asian, African and Arabic employers see nothing wrong in this, and if they are arrested just claim zero wages, sleeping on the kitchen floor and beatings every day is the going rate for domestics, and treating them that way is their cultural right! The woman convicted above was even a doctor!

The horrendous bit is that these people are all so rich, the money means nothing to them and they could afford to employ normal staff at UK wages, let alone wages that would give a good income to a family back in Africa or Pakistan. It is not just that they do not see these people as human beings, but they make a concious choice to make another person into their slave, and enjoy it!

So yes, slavery does exist, it is illegal, and people do get convicted of it!
TOOTS
Posted: Thursday, May 5, 2011 6:18:29 AM
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Thank you for your very interesting information Tov and kitten - I had no idea this beautiful piece of music had such a history.

Romany - what an experience for you, your story gave me goosebumps too, wow.

[image not available]
srirr
Posted: Thursday, May 5, 2011 6:25:19 AM

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Slavery and torture were outlawed long ago ...

But for some reason,

Marriage is still legal.

Klaas V
Posted: Thursday, May 5, 2011 11:34:08 AM

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From Wikipedia:
On December 10, 1948, the United Nations General Assembly adopted the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which declared freedom from slavery is an internationally recognized human right. Article 4 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights states:
“ No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms. http://www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/slavery/modern/law.shtml
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