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people who don't know they're bad at writing. Options
Raparee
Posted: Thursday, April 2, 2009 1:35:36 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/17/2009
Posts: 1,228
Neurons: 18,102
fred wrote:
Raparee wrote:
fred - As I said, it's simply my opinion and I'm not going to argue. If you want to text, go right ahead. I am neither inclined nor capable of stopping you. I am, however, curious to see if texting has had an impact on what editors see pass through their hands on a regular basis, which I thought was along the lines of this particular thread. Why are you so hung up on this?


You are assuming I am "hung up".
My point is- one should respect others peoples abilities, especially if they don't match up to your own... as I was trying to show to you of yours.

Well, considering I keep trying to move on, into whether or not texting has impacted the quality of work submitted to editors, and you keep dragging me back to an opinion, yes, I would consider you hung up on the matter. And I do respect the abilities of others - I have friends who cannot type or compose to save their lives, but I "know" them. I have spoken with them and know them to be articulate and intelligent individuals. Therefore, I am willing to decipher. If we do not know an individual personally, all we know of them is what they present to us. In a written format, be that here or in a published work, the way they write and use the words is how they present themselves. If I read a totally crap book, I'm not going to think too highly of the author, whereas if I read a great book, I will think highly of the author. Are there things to take into account? Of course. There are spelling and learning disabilities, multiple languages and language barriers, all manner of things. But the fact of the matter is, in a written environment, you are not only defined by what you say, but how you say it.

I do consider texting a dumbing down of language in general, regardless of the language. I like the written language and I choose to use it. My opinion can in no way stop texting or the pleasure people take from it, which is why it's completely not worth arguing.

So can we PLEASE move on now before the mods decide to step in? If you want to debate further, by all means, PM me, though honestly, I don't care to continue a debate that cannot be won or lost. I am still genuinely interested in my previous question on whether or not texting has impacted the lives of editors.
fred
Posted: Thursday, April 2, 2009 2:47:11 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/1/2009
Posts: 1,475
Neurons: 4,457
Location: United States
Raparee wrote:
fred wrote:
Raparee wrote:
fred - As I said, it's simply my opinion and I'm not going to argue. If you want to text, go right ahead. I am neither inclined nor capable of stopping you. I am, however, curious to see if texting has had an impact on what editors see pass through their hands on a regular basis, which I thought was along the lines of this particular thread. Why are you so hung up on this?


You are assuming I am "hung up".
My point is- one should respect others peoples abilities, especially if they don't match up to your own... as I was trying to show to you of yours.

Well, considering I keep trying to move on, into whether or not texting has impacted the quality of work submitted to editors, and you keep dragging me back to an opinion, yes, I would consider you hung up on the matter. And I do respect the abilities of others - I have friends who cannot type or compose to save their lives, but I "know" them. I have spoken with them and know them to be articulate and intelligent individuals. Therefore, I am willing to decipher. If we do not know an individual personally, all we know of them is what they present to us. In a written format, be that here or in a published work, the way they write and use the words is how they present themselves. If I read a totally crap book, I'm not going to think too highly of the author, whereas if I read a great book, I will think highly of the author. Are there things to take into account? Of course. There are spelling and learning disabilities, multiple languages and language barriers, all manner of things. But the fact of the matter is, in a written environment, you are not only defined by what you say, but how you say it.

I do consider texting a dumbing down of language in general, regardless of the language. I like the written language and I choose to use it. My opinion can in no way stop texting or the pleasure people take from it, which is why it's completely not worth arguing.

So can we PLEASE move on now before the mods decide to step in? If you want to debate further, by all means, PM me, though honestly, I don't care to continue a debate that cannot be won or lost. I am still genuinely interested in my previous question on whether or not texting has impacted the lives of editors.

Why would mods have to step in when we are on topic?

I don't see how a discussion on topic can be threatening unless there is something I've missed in the forum rules.

For you, respectfully, Raparee, I think texting is just another form of the English language and requires a knowledge of the language to be able to alter it (English) into text form. All good.
WordLover
Posted: Thursday, April 2, 2009 8:50:28 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/28/2009
Posts: 40
Neurons: 120
Location: Florida, United States
Fred, I think you have a point. I've often wondered what impact texting and casual e-mailing will have on our younger generations. As well as so-called vanity grammar as in eBay and other words that go against rules but are so prevalent today. More and more our language is getting dumbed-down.
prolixitysquared
Posted: Thursday, April 2, 2009 10:12:18 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/16/2009
Posts: 1,035
Neurons: 3,101
Location: pennsylvania.
WordLover wrote:
[quote=prolixitysquared]
"One of my good friends in college was chosen as English Major of the Month . . . . "

What college did you go to?


I went to Clarion University, which is a state school in Pennsylvania. It's not exactly that great, but my professors were excellent. I'd say it was some of the students who brought the department down, with my old (as in 'past') friend as an example of that.
prolixitysquared
Posted: Thursday, April 2, 2009 10:41:48 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/16/2009
Posts: 1,035
Neurons: 3,101
Location: pennsylvania.
I was friends with a girl in high school who I know was probably decently smart, but in instant messages she would type "I no, rite" as in, "I know, right ?"

I always wondered how someone could write that way in one setting and suddenly switch to actual proper spelling in another, like while writing an academic paper. Wouldn't that be confusing after a while ? Not to mention, it just seems lazy and disrespectful to our language. And I know maybe not everyone is really into revering our language as much as us English-geeks are, but that example above just reminds me of intelligence slinking down a long path that starts in a toilet bowl.
WordLover
Posted: Friday, April 3, 2009 10:22:57 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/28/2009
Posts: 40
Neurons: 120
Location: Florida, United States
I have to admit I've been notoriously ridiculed for always texting in perfect English! So, as much as it makes me cringe, I've had to cave-in to the text language. BUT, as an editor, I would never allow it anywhere. And as a writer, would never use text-speak in any writing.

I would like to think that editors are schooled enough in proper English to be able to differentiate between the two. I think I'd want to shoot myself if I ever saw u in a written, published piece! d'oh!
fred
Posted: Friday, April 3, 2009 12:38:48 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/1/2009
Posts: 1,475
Neurons: 4,457
Location: United States
WordLover wrote:
I have to admit I've been notoriously ridiculed for always texting in perfect English! So, as much as it makes me cringe, I've had to cave-in to the text language. BUT, as an editor, I would never allow it anywhere. And as a writer, would never use text-speak in any writing.

I would like to think that editors are schooled enough in proper English to be able to differentiate between the two. I think I'd want to shoot myself if I ever saw u in a written, published piece! d'oh!


How do languages develop? They are not static.
Latin "degraded" into the many Romance languages. Now those "hillbilly" languages are respectable.
WordLover
Posted: Friday, April 3, 2009 12:54:21 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/28/2009
Posts: 40
Neurons: 120
Location: Florida, United States
Very good point, Fred! You're right, language is not static, as nothing can be to progress. But, there are certain rules, if you will, that have stood the test of time that are being ignored. I have seen the word (as my earlier example) eBay start off a sentence as it is and not capitalized. To one that hasn't learned the correct structure of a sentence, or has English as a second language perhaps, this makes sense. Is it soon to be recognized as correct? Scary thought?
York
Posted: Thursday, July 23, 2009 5:06:28 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 95
Neurons: 3,845
Location: Savannah, Georgia, United States
Citiwoman, was your writing was "over the top" because of over-exposure to the Gonzo style? (I'm going to heave my scotch bottle out the window now and flip off a cop.)
peterhewett
Posted: Friday, July 24, 2009 5:32:59 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 5/15/2009
Posts: 2,452
Neurons: 3,698
Location: In my head
Peter wrote;

While it is nice read to well written language, language that seems to flow, the real nub of the matter is surely content. It is good to marry the two, but if one must be sacrificed then let’s have good content. After all the purpose of language is to convey meaning to your reader, hence your grammar and sentence structure need not be perfect to achieve this. As long as it is reasonable, that suffices. I am not arguing for a lowering of standards; I love to see well written prose.

I think it is important to avoid being too critical and by so doing risk missing the point of a good reasoned argument or essay. Some people are just not good at expressing themselves in perfect English, but they have something worthwhile to say, and indeed may be better equipped to say it than the perfect grammarian.

We don't want to deter the one who recognises his limitations in english do we.

What do you think?
TB
Posted: Saturday, July 25, 2009 12:34:34 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/12/2009
Posts: 1,437
Neurons: 4,277
Location: America
Citiwoman wrote:
"...less really is more, and I (and probably you, too) can say something profound and clever and intelligent in a concise manner. I think that is an essential of good writing.



Bingo Applause

Off topic but, I find it funny that a few here have challenged others to a vocabulary contest; the message is "I'm smarter than you because I know big words." Brick wall That's a dangerous path. Some of the most intelligent people I've met have poor vocabulary and writing skills but they would humiliate us all in their own areas of expertise. There is something to learn from everyone even if they don't say it well.
Eddie Conn
Posted: Saturday, July 25, 2009 3:49:20 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/12/2009
Posts: 7
Location: United Kingdom
TB Wrote:

Bingo

Off topic but, I find it funny that a few here have challenged others to a vocabulary contest; the message is "I'm smarter than you because I know big words." That's a dangerous path. Some of the most intelligent people I've met have poor vocabulary and writing skills but they would humiliate us all in their own areas of expertise. There is something to learn from everyone even if they don't say it well.

TB,you made some excellent points. Any reasonable person would accept your way of thinking.

bugdoctor
Posted: Sunday, July 26, 2009 12:15:44 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/8/2009
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Location: United States - Georgia
[quote=Eddie Conn]TB,you made some excellent points. Any reasonable person would accept your way of thinking.

Saying someone is reasonable is akin to saying they have 'common sense'.Angel

It's not always easy to define.
pedro
Posted: Friday, July 31, 2009 6:49:28 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 5/21/2009
Posts: 13,057
Neurons: 63,022
It also seems to be the case that most of the contributors who are so precious about their English grammar use American spelling.
Cathie8653
Posted: Friday, July 31, 2009 11:43:22 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/27/2009
Posts: 80
Neurons: 254
Location: London
The best way to find out if what one has written is essentially correct is to read it aloud. Oftentimes, this will cause one to double-take on the sense of one's writing. Of course, we can only be this pedantic about written language and not spoken language, as there are an absoultely giant, big and humungous number of dfrent axents owt their that will cawse a wide range of difficulties when trying to decipher spoken language.
Kat
Posted: Saturday, August 1, 2009 8:14:06 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 5/19/2009
Posts: 878
Neurons: 3,389
I'm going back quite a few years here and do not recall the exact name
of the book. Nor do I remember the name of the author. Yikes. Sorry.
I believe it may have been, "El Barrio", but I cannot find it on the
internet. It was an oddity even then and my husband happen to find it
in a used book store.
It was grungy and raw, written (supposedly) by a South American
woman living in squalor. Her experiences were written without
regard to spelling, grammar or any notion of sugar coating. It was as
though someone typed it as she spoke. The severity of her life was riveting.
Obviously, someone saw a glimmer of fame in her story, put it in context,
gave it some order and relied on the story to come through.
My point is, I don't think you have to be a good writer to tell a great story.
Can top
Posted: Friday, August 7, 2009 5:20:58 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 8/5/2009
Posts: 35
Neurons: 117
Location: Canada
Barbara
Only in grammar can you be more than perfect. ~William Safire

That's an odd thing coming from W Safire. He knows very little about grammar.
cantspellletalonegrammarize
Posted: Wednesday, May 9, 2012 6:28:02 AM
Rank: Newbie

Joined: 5/9/2012
Posts: 1
Neurons: 3
Location: Canada
So the award winning english major AND an entire faculty of english see no problems with her writing and you still think you know better?
pedro
Posted: Wednesday, May 9, 2012 6:39:36 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 5/21/2009
Posts: 13,057
Neurons: 63,022
cantspellletalonegrammarize wrote:
So the award winning english major AND an entire faculty of english see no problems with her writing and you still think you know better?



You've been thinking about this for quite some time.

dusty
Posted: Wednesday, May 9, 2012 1:11:21 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/13/2012
Posts: 1,770
Neurons: 5,765
I can certainly understand how persons practiced in the craft of writing are sensitive to annoyance of those who aren't.

And I am sure you are aware of a few of distinctions or possible basic groups that a person's editing ability may fall into:

Those who have trouble editing their own thoughts translated to written words

And

Those who have no trouble editing their own thoughts translated to written words

However there is a great deal of psychology involved behind those two distinct natural abilities in regards to the person and which type of editing comes with ease.

So while you may be frustrated with your friends writing, you may want to consider the fact she and others like her are equivalent to creative well that others steal ideas from.

If more writers skilled in the mechanics of the craft were not lacking in their ability to produce their own creative ideas that are used as seed to sprout roots that grow stories that readers enjoy as read, then under no circumstances would it have ever been considered acceptable behavior to steal another's unique and creative seeds of idea.
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