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How nude is too nude when kids are viewing? Options
Babezy
Posted: Monday, January 24, 2011 10:14:40 PM
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I have an 8 year old and a 12 year old. We go to the art museum, we have art books around the house, the kids have seen "art nudes." We also have a kids' book by Peter Mayle describing how babies are made, with full frontal naked cartoons of a man and woman. The other night I rented The Beaches of Agnes, and was going to let the kids watch it. Then there were several scenes of nude actors chatting and one couple making out. THEN there was the nude couple backing away from the camera, and the man had very obviously enjoyed the encounter with his partner. I decided the kids were definitely not ready for all this.

Here's my question: at what point is nude too nude? The film was arty, not pornographic, and yet it was too much for me to let the kids see. I think it was the combination of live people and making out action. I've heard that Americans are far more uncomfortable with nudity than Europeans, and much less uncomfortable with it than Asians, in general. True? I'm not sure where the line is for me as a mom, but I know Agnes crossed it. Too bad, though--the film was lovely and I'd have liked the kids to have seen it. But I don't like bowdlerized art. If they couldn't watch it all I didn't want them to see disconnected chunks.
HWNN1961
Posted: Monday, January 24, 2011 10:34:23 PM
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Babezy,

I think you hit on it in your description: the guy "obviously enjoyed the encounter". Someone once said that it is hard to define pornography, but, you know it when you see it. Finding careful ways of explaining the birds and the bees to kids is fine. Having them comfortable with the nude human body is fine too.

But,

It crosses the border into voyeurism to have kids watching sexual arousal.

I can imagine what it was like on the frontier, or in medieval times, when a family of 9 might live in a one room shack. Yes, mom and dad got jiggy. But, even though the kids had a good idea of what was going on, they didn't watch.
excaelis
Posted: Monday, January 24, 2011 10:52:19 PM

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[quote=HWNN1961]Babezy,

I think you hit on it in your description: the guy "obviously enjoyed the encounter". Someone once said that it is hard to define pornography, but, you know it when you see it.


Justice Potter Stewart. Jacobellis vs Ohio 378 US 184 ( 1964 )
memphis jailer
Posted: Monday, January 24, 2011 10:57:52 PM
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well i'd say ANYTHING with full frontal, backal, or any type of nudity is not appropiate for an 8 year old ... the 12 year old maybe the artsy stuff ... but seriously .... watch whatever you plan to show first ... that's what i'd do
Casper
Posted: Monday, January 24, 2011 11:20:30 PM

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In my country, Philippines, our parents let us close our eyes when there's a kissing scene- no matter how beautiful the movie is. The only time that I get to see art with nudity and the adults are more confident to show us, it is when I entered the University.
ludic
Posted: Monday, January 24, 2011 11:31:20 PM

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Casper wrote:
In my country, Philippines, our parents let us close our eyes when there's a kissing scene- no matter how beautiful the movie is. The only time that I get to see art with nudity and the adults are more confident to show us, it is when I entered the University.


haha... same here in India: I remember years ago when Dad had, not knowing anything about the movie, brought home a video cassette of Titanic, I'd spent most part of the movie feigning sleep - I was just 6 yrs old then! In many families in India, parents don't allow children to watch english channels altogether!
TYSON
Posted: Monday, January 24, 2011 11:53:06 PM
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I guess it's your call as a parent as to what is (or is not) too much for your kids. In any case there will be both opinions about you being too liberal or too uptight.
srirr
Posted: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 12:01:02 AM

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I concur with Ludic and Babezy. The answer to OP's question is in the OP's post only. I think it has a relation with the upbringing and social customs. In Europe it is different, in Asia it may be different, in America it may get another angle. It depends on how much you are open. In India, even a kissing scene may be embarrassing for parents and kids simultaneously let alone skin show. Still in some tribes of India (and in Africa), the topless women are common.

You should see how much the surrounding is open where you live. If you, your family and the people in your surrounding are comfortable with frontal nudity, it is OK. Like, you may feel it comfortable wearing a bikini and going out in sun with your kids, however Indian girls from the age of 5 or 6 are restricted and they cant not come out in their undergarments. Seeing that is considered to be nudity.

**Edit: Tyson said it in very few words. Applause
Gargantua
Posted: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 12:07:14 AM
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A lady of my acquaintence from the Tamil state of India considers most prime time American programming to be 'obSCEEENE!' Seeing shows like 'So You Think You Can Dance' or really, any MTV Video since 1980, she will utter Tamilian expletives and switch the channel. Contemporary Bollywood she also deems to be pornographic, now that they've begun to kiss on camera. Until about twenty years ago, most Bollywood films adhered to a code that would have sat well in a 1965 Walt Disney film.
The.girl.loves.chocolate
Posted: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 2:29:45 AM
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Funny, isn't it...how we worry and then wonder what others do...you obviously have done what you personally feel is best for your children and I applaud that, not worrying what the trends are in your community.

I am Australian and would say that we are quite similar to the British in our attitudes toward nudity in the media and that. I remember the whole of Australia wondering why they kept pixellating Janet Jackson's boob after everyone had already seen it...including us, and it wasn't bare anyway, she had this metal thing over her nipple as I recall.
In any case, and please, this is not a personal insult to any American, more to that anonymous entity out there in all countries, the powers that be... There seems to be a dreadful amount of censure and the longest discussions over the issue of sex and what should not be shown in the US, and I think that's a large part of the reason women dress in such a risqué manner, in front of the camera anyway, and why young celebrities hop out of vehicles wearing no panties and opening their legs. I believe that if that stuff isn't made such a fuss of, then it eventually balances itself out. But while the church, or whoever wants to make such a big deal of it, and continues to do so, there will only ever be more and more women wanting to bare their breasts because nipples aren't allowed and what have you.
Did anyone know there is supposed to be a US site on the net called, 'nipple slips,' containing photos of celebrities deliberately baring nipple...
An American friend had to ask me recently if we were talking about the same film as he hadn't seen half of the nudity in it that I had here. Mind you, the film was quite an old one and it had been some time since he had seen it.

What really gets me is that there seems to be no similar complaints coming from those quarters when it comes to violence on the screen...as human beings we are strangely de-sensitised to death and dead bodies from television and yet many of us have never even seen one in real life until a close family member dies.
Seems a little hypocritical to me. Never-the-less the human body is a beautiful thing and as long as the child understands sex is a grown up's way to show love and to be close and that the intention is to join together to make a new family, then it's better for the child to know sex is a topic up for discussion in the home from any age. Then, at an appropriate and older age, a parent could always explain that the making of a new family may not always eventuate, or it might for a time, when a couple lives together - they are still a new family, even without offspring. And of course you are right, the child shouldn't have to watch the actual mechanics of it until sex ed. class in high school when they are more able to handle it, but I still see nudity as highly desirable for children to see and become comfortable with...after all, we are all born naked. We socialise them out of so much of their innocence, to see sex and/or nudity as dirty or bad is, to me, is the crime.
...makes you wonder who is getting so upset about sex in the media and what is behind the insistence for this bunch of males, for men it is largely...I thought men liked to see more flesh...but that's a whole other discussion.
Jo.
worldsclyde
Posted: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 2:51:16 AM
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It bothers me to see nudity and sex mentioned at the same level. There is nothing wrong with a human body in its natural state. I am a member of a family nudist resort and we emphasize "family". Sexual activity is private and exhibitions of it are strictly forbidden. I would also not let my young children see the film you described but not because of any nudity. Nudity does not mean sex.
Klaas V
Posted: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 4:53:45 AM

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worldsclyde wrote:
It bothers me to see nudity and sex mentioned at the same level. There is nothing wrong with a human body in its natural state. I am a member of a family nudist resort and we emphasize "family". Sexual activity is private and exhibitions of it are strictly forbidden. I would also not let my young children see the film you described but not because of any nudity. Nudity does not mean sex.


Exactly. Strangest of all is that people let their kids see tv when people are killing each other, but the opposite is a scandal?
Dubai
Posted: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 7:17:14 AM
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Excellent explanation.
I really appreciate the in depth reply by The.girl.loves.chocolate.
Cat
Posted: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 7:57:50 AM

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When my son was 9 I found him perusing my Victoria's Secret catalogs and decided they were age appropriate and that if he was curious about women's bodies I'd rather he have my catalogs under his bed than a neighbor's Penthouse at that age.
Vickster
Posted: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 10:36:05 AM
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I agree with Worldsclyde... nudity is NOT sex... I wouldn't mind my kids seeing nudity when shown properly. It's when the couple is going at it or a female is exposed in a raunchy way...
Honestly... I don't particularly like movies that get high ratings just because of sex scene or for that matter... lots of blood and gore. It's not necessary to make a good movie... I'd rather have a good intense story line and great actors... you can save the sex and gore... (also the bad language!!) I can't stand watching a movie that has the actor saying th e F bomb in every sentence.... seriously not needed!!!
utopsia
Posted: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 12:51:52 PM
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great topic Babezy Applause
To me it seems your question turns into "How old must kids be to be aware about the repercusion that nudity has on society?".
Of course the environment conditions but media (advertisments...) tends to reduce that age, and according to my opinion parents have lower chances to influence that awareness point... We still want to be romanticSilenced
man in black
Posted: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 3:01:18 PM
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Aren´t we born naked anyway? What´s wrong with nudity? Except that is shown in inadequate places. The same reaction would be for an attired person to stroll through a naturalist beach. It is all up to circunstances. Now there´s nothing wrong with nakeness it´s our natural outfit. And in those countries where even kissing is forbidden to watch or is seeing as a disgrace in public places to show attration or love and can even lead to severe penalties. God forbids me to dwell in such latitudes or even to embrace a religion which hinders and prohibits mutual affection.Pray
wercozy
Posted: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 3:03:10 PM
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Well I accidentally exposed my kids and nieces and nephews to adult porn on Thanksgiving day some time ago. I went to Block Busters and rented Alice in Wonderland. I looked at the cover and thought it was Alice in Wonderland. During the meal preparation we had the kids in one room and the adults in an other. 15 minutes after starting the video, the kids started giggling. I didn't remember Alice in Wonderland being funny. Soon there was hooting and hollering going on and we all went in to check what was so funny. To my horror and absolute embarrassment kids were watching porn in my home. We took the video out immediately and my husband went to the store to have a little talk with them.

It was the Thanksgiving that no one has ever forgotten.
ludic
Posted: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 4:08:13 PM

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Oh my! Those 15 mins must've been so weird for (some of)the kids, with siblings around! They're indeed gonna remember this Thanksgiving all their lives!
Babezy
Posted: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 6:34:32 PM
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Geez, who wouldn't have thought it was the real Alice? I thought porn movies made puns or take-offs of popular titles, and didn't just rip them off verbatim. Also, don't video stores put the porn in segregated areas, clearly marked? Yikes!
Babezy
Posted: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 6:37:47 PM
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Also, I have to disagree that American parents in general don't care about their young kids watching gore and violence. Our kids don't get to watch it, and many of our friends' kids don't. The exceptions seem to be in the houses mixing teens and younger kids. It must be too hard to enforce no-gore rules, because those little ones always seem to be watching what the big kids watch.
TYSON
Posted: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 7:39:28 PM
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wercozy wrote:
Well I accidentally exposed my kids and nieces and nephews to adult porn on Thanksgiving day some time ago. I went to Block Busters and rented Alice in Wonderland. I looked at the cover and thought it was Alice in Wonderland. During the meal preparation we had the kids in one room and the adults in an other. 15 minutes after starting the video, the kids started giggling. I didn't remember Alice in Wonderland being funny. Soon there was hooting and hollering going on and we all went in to check what was so funny. To my horror and absolute embarrassment kids were watching porn in my home. We took the video out immediately and my husband went to the store to have a little talk with them.

It was the Thanksgiving that no one has ever forgotten.


THIS GIVES NEW MEANING TO THE TERM "STUFFING THE TURKEY" OR EVEN "ALICE GOING DOWN THE RABBIT HOLE"
abcxyz
Posted: Thursday, January 27, 2011 3:02:50 PM
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srirr wrote:
In India, even a kissing scene may be embarrassing for parents and kids simultaneously let alone skin show. Still in some tribes of India (and in Africa), the topless women are common.


I remember watching The Lost World with my friends at home when ma came and asked what we were watching. We told her and she left the room. After 10 minutes when she came back there was a scene with a bikini-clad woman in it. She told us to turn off the TV. We were very reluctant. "Aunty, there are dinosaurs in it!" "Sheesh ma, it's Arthur Conan Doyle you're not letting us watch!" She thought for a moment and left. Our bad luck, when she came in again there was another scene - can't describe it - which drove her mad. This time we had no argument so we beat it.

Parenting is real hard task Brick wall
Cass
Posted: Thursday, January 27, 2011 7:24:04 PM
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I took my pre-teen daughter to see "Saturday Night Fever" not realizing it was R-rated; it was a musical, after all.

Remember that scene in the back seat of the car? I had a lot of "splainin' to do, Lucy.


wercozy
Posted: Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:05:33 PM
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Babezy, "don't video stores put the porn in segregated areas, clearly marked?" Well, ordinarily they do, but this time the X rated movie was placed in the wrong cover accidentally, or maybe on purpose, then placed in the children's entertainment section.

Live and learn I guess.
dlux3
Posted: Friday, January 28, 2011 1:38:52 AM
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We are born naked. We bathe and dress/undress in front of our children to a certain age, some always. I have always believed that nudity in (most) art is acceptable, taking into account that children know what the naked body is, they have one and have seen mum and dad bare.

Children are curious and will investigate one way or another, it is a natural part of growth. Foisting pornography upon them is clearly unacceptable, they will have time enough to view or not view that material when they are grown.

When I was a child I was very uncomfortable viewing sex scenes with my parents, if they occurred. An erection in front of parents is very awkward. I'm sure they were uncomfortable also.

I'm afraid I don't know. I liked seeing sex scenes on TV but was vexed by watching it with my parents. We as parents should screen the content of media prior and decide if it is appropriate or censor on screen goings on if we get caught on the hop.

I do believe we shouldn't make children feel as though sex is dirty and I do know from my own experience that they will come to it in their own time. There is nothing we can do to stop them playing 'doctors and nurses' as it part of life.

Children will explore, it's what they do.



dlux3
Posted: Friday, January 28, 2011 1:44:17 AM
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wercozy wrote:
Well I accidentally exposed my kids and nieces and nephews to adult porn on Thanksgiving day some time ago. I went to Block Busters and rented Alice in Wonderland. I looked at the cover and thought it was Alice in Wonderland. During the meal preparation we had the kids in one room and the adults in an other. 15 minutes after starting the video, the kids started giggling. I didn't remember Alice in Wonderland being funny. Soon there was hooting and hollering going on and we all went in to check what was so funny. To my horror and absolute embarrassment kids were watching porn in my home. We took the video out immediately and my husband went to the store to have a little talk with them.

It was the Thanksgiving that no one has ever forgotten.




Groan. You poor thing. Will make for a laugh later in life.


wercozy
Posted: Friday, January 28, 2011 3:18:34 AM
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dlux3, I don't think so. 3 of the 5 kids got ruined for life. They did things I'm sure was related to their early exposure, that led to curiosity and experimentation way too early.
dlux3
Posted: Friday, January 28, 2011 4:57:37 AM
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wercozy wrote:
dlux3, I don't think so. 3 of the 5 kids got ruined for life. They did things I'm sure was related to their early exposure, that led to curiosity and experimentation way too early.



Oh no. The video store clerk has a lot to answer for.


GabhSigenod
Posted: Friday, January 28, 2011 8:50:08 AM

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“How nude is too nude when kids are viewing?”
I vaguely remember a quote from someone, somewhere: “I'll know it, when I see it !!!”
utopsia
Posted: Friday, January 28, 2011 9:09:13 PM
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GabhSigenod wrote:
“How nude is too nude when kids are viewing?”
I vaguely remember a quote from someone, somewhere: “I'll know it, when I see it !!!”


very true. the circumstances of each case determine its relevance. Let me see...
Jauxred
Posted: Thursday, October 11, 2012 8:20:54 PM
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Okay, I can understand the sensabilities, and I can understand the idea's and aspects that you may be feeling about these nudity issues. However...your all being 20th century prudes. that is not meant in any fashion of offence, but your idiologies are not based on factual or even health ground for kids.

Did you know that nudity is a constant aspect of Japanese tv? Did you know that to japanese, there is no 18 rating system? And yet they do have nudity. They even have sexual connotations in movies. pubic hair is the only thing censored.

You pick up a 14yo japanese kid and I bet he's likely seen more nudity on a screen than any sneaky 14yo british or american lad with access to internet.

Want to know the major difference?

LOWEST SEX CRIME RATE IN THE WORLD.


Children are brought up understanding their bodies, never being afraid of the changes they know will happen, arousal is just a part of facts and life for them, and they want for nothing in knowledge department of what keeps them safe.

Stduies show the more a child is shown nudity throughout life, the more comfortable they get, this is in ALL forms, including aroused nudity.

and parents that are accepting and free with such idea's consistently have better relationships with their parents.

Dont beleive me? ask yourself a SINGLE question......could you go to your parent OF THE OPPOSITE SEX and ask them about a gential problem? or even show them a genital problem? or ask them a sexual question? or talk about a sexual problem?

I bet you answered no.


in japan....they sit their kids down, of any age. and they just talk. as casually as though its about the weather. because it is for them.


the more you shelter your child from the world, the more distanced and afraid that child will be of the world as he grows older. the human body is beautiful. every aspect of it. NO PART OF THE BODY IS UGLY! that includes arousal, no function of the body is disgusting...its just natural. and if you teach your child this, they will learn great respect.

also, so you know, in american society, statistically, its the sheltered kids that are more likely to get pregnant, or get a girl pregnant in their teens. teen pregnancy is caused by ignorance, and stupidity...ignorance and stupidity are caused my parents that dont teach their kids right. and teaching their kids right involves not being bloody afraid of nudity and the human body and sex. sex sex sex. its procreation and something people do for love. young people should know its beautiful. they should know its limitations. they should be aware!

make your children aware, stop ruining their future ideal's with your current backwards ones. just look at nudist families, the bond they have, you lot could only dream of such a strong and close family.

now movies? their the very base sentiment of mentality in nudity, the pinical and the summet, the start and the end. they harbour dreams, desires, and we still crap all over them when we see stuff and say "think of the children" I say your not thinking of the children.

let them watch a tastefull nude scene. let them watch a couple make love on the tv so long as its tasteful. I am not saying let them watch porn.

I'm saying if its part of the story of a beautiful movie...let them see the beautiful movie. it might just have a posative impact. and your child might just respect you more for it.
FounDit
Posted: Friday, October 12, 2012 5:20:57 PM

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An interesting article that may be relevant:

http://www.livescience.com/21609-self-sexualization-young-girls.html
Dennis C 1
Posted: Friday, November 4, 2016 8:07:12 PM

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As long it is not hardcore p***. I don't see a problem with it. When my kids grow up we swim at the Y. In those days there was no family changing room.I have a son and daughter. Bringing my daughter in the mens locker room exposed her to lots of naked guys. Nothing sexual just the human body as long as it is not hard core fucking I see no problem with them watching. Hard-ons are part of life.
MelissaMe
Posted: Monday, November 7, 2016 4:45:33 PM

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Klaas V wrote:
worldsclyde wrote:
It bothers me to see nudity and sex mentioned at the same level. There is nothing wrong with a human body in its natural state. I am a member of a family nudist resort and we emphasize "family". Sexual activity is private and exhibitions of it are strictly forbidden. I would also not let my young children see the film you described but not because of any nudity. Nudity does not mean sex.


Exactly. Strangest of all is that people let their kids see tv when people are killing each other, but the opposite is a scandal?


I agree completely!

Why is it so apparently horrible for children to see someone fresh out of the shower, mildly cursing a lack of towels (who hasn't forgotten about taking them all to be laundered?) and wandering around the house completely naked, looking for a clean, dry towel, but it's perfectly fine for them to see loads of horrible murders with buckets of blood and dead bodies?

This society is so f¥©ked up. 😞

If someone has a nicer, yet comprehensive way of saying that, please let me know! My mother never did approve of my strong language.
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