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Esperanto? Options
ameebolah
Posted: Thursday, July 23, 2009 4:35:49 AM
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Joined: 7/16/2009
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Location: China
I was reading the Wikipedia page for Esparanto, "the most widely spoken constructed international auxiliary language," and I felt confused afterward.

Esperanto has its own flag. At first, I was puzzled about why a language would have a flag, but then I came to the conclusion that the language doesn't come from a specific country... so an identity had to be created for it. I thought about this more - a language stems from a place and the area's culture is intwined in it. Is this maybe one of the reasons why the language won't "catch on?"

How do you feel about Esperanto? Do you think it will gain popularity? Do you think that a universal language could eventually be used successfully?

Also, I want to know if anyone here has studied/speaks Esperanto. I would love to have your input!
bugdoctor
Posted: Thursday, July 23, 2009 6:14:22 AM
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ameebolah wrote:
I was reading the Wikipedia page for Esparanto, "the most widely spoken constructed international auxiliary language," and I felt confused afterward.

Esperanto has its own flag. At first, I was puzzled about why a language would have a flag, but then I came to the conclusion that the language doesn't come from a specific country... so an identity had to be created for it. I thought about this more - a language stems from a place and the area's culture is intwined in it. Is this maybe one of the reasons why the language won't "catch on?"

How do you feel about Esperanto? Do you think it will gain popularity? Do you think that a universal language could eventually be used successfully?

Also, I want to know if anyone here has studied/speaks Esperanto. I would love to have your input!


Esperanto is far more popular than I had originally thought. I don't speak Esperanto, but know a number of scientists from other countries who do. Personally, I'd rather be conversant in a couple of other languages. I think that would be more beneficial in the long run.

As for the language having its own flag, that seems a bit much.
ameebolah
Posted: Thursday, July 23, 2009 6:22:33 AM
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Joined: 7/16/2009
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Location: China
You know scientists that speak Esperanto!? That's fascinating!

What hurts my brain regarding that---> from what I know about Esperanto, it doesn't boast a large lexicon. What I'm wondering is if there are words in Esperanto to correctly express the jargon of science. If so, then Esperanto would be a useful language for the science field. Is this the reason why the scientists use it or do they speak it for other reasons?

dp
Posted: Thursday, July 23, 2009 8:40:48 AM
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Location: United States
I always found Esperanto to be more of a failed social experiment than a truly "serious" language but its passing the test of time so there is always hope (pun intended).
nachochip
Posted: Thursday, July 23, 2009 11:18:43 AM
Rank: Newbie

Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 7
Neurons: 21
Location: Mexico
ameebolah wrote:
You know scientists that speak Esperanto!? That's fascinating!

What hurts my brain regarding that---> from what I know about Esperanto, it doesn't boast a large lexicon. What I'm wondering is if there are words in Esperanto to correctly express the jargon of science. If so, then Esperanto would be a useful language for the science field. Is this the reason why the scientists use it or do they speak it for other reasons?


The main purpose of Esperanto is the communication between people, no matter their walk of life or occupation.
For my own part, I can say I am far from being a scientist... but I do speak Esperanto! Dancing
You'd be surprised as for the large quantity of literature written in E-o, from romantic novels to -yes- scientific documents. And about the lexicon, that is one of the main strengths of the language: It uses a relatively small set of roots, but with an extensive use of prefixes and affixes your vocabulary grows exponentially. But it won't stop there, because Esperanto is also (and mainly)a very friendly language for everyday communication.
Give it a try and you'll find how enriching an experience it is. Go to this very popular site (in English) for learning Esperanto. Gxis revido!
Isaac Samuel
Posted: Thursday, July 23, 2009 12:26:22 PM
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Location: United States
In history,the colonists arrived at your port with their flags unfurled in their ship's masts to invade your territory.
Jingoists unfurled their flags in their own territories for patriotism. Flags are allegorical in these two situations; but it is a stretch in this situation.

I agree with bugdoctor: "As for the language having its own flag, that seems a bit much"

An icon with lettered logo should serve the purpose.
early_apex
Posted: Thursday, July 23, 2009 4:10:09 PM
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Isaac Samuel wrote:
In history,the colonists arrived at your port with their flags unfurled in their ship's masts to invade your territory.
Jingoists unfurled their flags in their own territories for patriotism. Flags are allegorical in these two situations; but it is a stretch in this situation.

I agree with bugdoctor: "As for the language having its own flag, that seems a bit much"

An icon with lettered logo should serve the purpose.


Currency is another place for national identity. That is why Eurodollars have pictures of no place in particular, in fairness to the 16 different countries that use them.
Enrique
Posted: Thursday, July 23, 2009 8:41:09 PM
Rank: Newbie

Joined: 7/23/2009
Posts: 3
Neurons: 9
Location: United States

Next month will be 50 years from the moment I started to learn and use Esperanto. The first uses were reading and writting. My first conversations started 2 months after my first trying to learn the language.

It took me many years to reach that stage in English.

Ameebolah said:

>Is this maybe one of the reasons why the
>language won't "catch on?"

Esperanto did catch on. There are users in most countries.

>How do you feel about Esperanto?

It is a great language, easy to learn, and easy to use after learning it. It can be learned from a book. I did that. But today there are lots of learning materials on the web. Maybe more than for any other language ... all for free.

>Do you think it will gain popularity?

It has been gaining popularity since publication in 1887. Unfortunately, some dictators, like Stalin and Hittler, thought that Esperanto was not convenient for them, because it allowed contacts with other countries, and ordered to kill many of the Esperanto speakers.

>Do you think that a universal language
>could eventually be used successfully?

Esperanto has been used successfully during more than a century. I use Esperanto almost every day.

>I would love to have your input!

Last Monday I spent the day showing San Francisco and other places to the north, to a man from Wien, Austria. Our only common language was Esperanto.

Right now I am preparing a trip to China. Esperanto speakers are helping me now. Others will help me during my stay.

Best wishes,
Enrique, from Fremont, California, USA
Enrique
Posted: Thursday, July 23, 2009 9:02:00 PM
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Location: United States


Bugdoctor said:

>Personally, I'd rather be conversant in a couple of other languages.

I do too. But learning Esperanto took me a few months. Learning English took a huge part of my life.

>I think that would be more beneficial in the long run.

If you are going to spend a lot of time in the concerning country, you are right. I learned English to live in USA.

I know a lady that learned French in rather short time ... with a lot of work. Then she did some of her studying in Paris, with teachers and co-students that spoke French, while living at the house of French speakers. Already passed more than 15 years from the last time she used French, even if she visited other countries.

I have spoken Esperanto in many countries, and I have spoken Esperanto with people from other countries while they were visiting USA. Some of them had studied English during many years but didn't reach a conversation level. The others didn't study English.

Enrique
Isaac Samuel
Posted: Friday, July 24, 2009 12:18:32 AM
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Enrique,
English is enjoying the status of Lingua franca of the world, even though only a fraction of the population speak and write. How did it get there and how long it took to get there ?If you think Esperanto will still flourish and reach English despite lack of solid roots and nourishment, you are an intrepid and unparalleled optimist. I wish you all the best.
risadr
Posted: Friday, July 24, 2009 1:42:38 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/16/2009
Posts: 1,155
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Location: PA, United States
I have been fascinated by Esperanto, and have developed an interest in learning it, in recent years. Unfortunately, I've never taken the time to learn, since no one else I know is an Esperanto speaker, and I've determined that I would almost never use it.

However, after reading Enrique's comments, I'm beginning to reconsider. If it really is as quick to learn as you say, Enrique, perhaps I could use Esperanto, rather than Italian, with my daughter (she understands only a few Italian phrases, because everyone else I know speaks only English with her), and with a few of my friends who have expressed an interest in learning another language for the purposes of "secret communication" while in public.
Gwen
Posted: Friday, July 24, 2009 2:32:22 PM
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Joined: 3/31/2009
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Location: Florida, United States
Never heard of this language 'till now.
Enrique
Posted: Saturday, July 25, 2009 7:51:16 PM
Rank: Newbie

Joined: 7/23/2009
Posts: 3
Neurons: 9
Location: United States

Samuel said:

>English is enjoying the status of Lingua franca
>If you think Esperanto will still flourish

They are 2 different languages. Both are very useful. I studied and learned both. It took me a couple of months since I "discovered" Esperanto until I started to speak it. I needed many, many years to reach that level in English, even after I moved to New York City.

I was practicing English many more hours that I was using Esperanto. Reading was enough practice for Esperanto. After being able to understand well "The New York Times", it took me years to learn to listen to English.

When traveling, English is very useful to help arrange more traveling, hotels, tours, even some restaurants. Esperanto works better if you want to make friends, be invited to dinner, or stay overnight at the house of local people, and being accompanied to tour their towns. always speaking at the same level.

It is very frustrating when one person speaks at the level that can be acquired by learning a foreign language, with somebody that has spoken English from birth.

Please learn a little bit more about Esperanto.
You can start at

http://esperantofre.com

Please write to me. If you click my name "Enrique", at the beginning or at the end of the page, you will find my email address.

Best wishes,

Enrique

. . . When they spoke English to me, it was
. . . because they wanted to sell me something.
. . . When they spoke Esperanto to me, it was
. . . because they wanted to be my friends.

krmiller
Posted: Monday, July 27, 2009 10:51:17 PM
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Location: United States
I know a little Esperanto. I would probably speak it well by now if I took the time to study, but I am inconsistent, lazy, and focused on another language (Welsh)! I doubt it will ever become as important a language as English, but it is still a wonderful language to learn and I hope it spreads even more than it already has.
witchcraft
Posted: Thursday, July 30, 2009 6:43:15 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/6/2009
Posts: 384
Location: Tasmania Australia
Has Esperanto become a universal language so far?
risadr
Posted: Thursday, July 30, 2009 9:21:58 AM
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Joined: 3/16/2009
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Location: PA, United States
I believe that it may have the potential to become a universal language, if more people were open to learning it.
bituufg
Posted: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 8:50:30 AM
Rank: Newbie

Joined: 8/11/2009
Posts: 2
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Location: India
Well, some people obviously have a use for Esperanto. Me for one.
As for being an international language, well it's a slow process, but one that is moving forward none-the-less.
In a recent reprint of the Unua Libro (first book), editor Gene Keyes said that when he first started the project in 2000, he did a search for Esperanto on Google and it yielded over 1 million hits. At the completion of his task in February of 2007, the same search yielded over 34 million hits. Out of curiosity, after I had read that I did the same search and it yielded over 39.2 million hits. That's up over 5 million in two months. So it's growing. Slowly (or maybe not so slowly!)
Obviously not everyone will find a use for it, and that's fine. However for those that take the time and bother to search out the other users, it's worth it. Of course searching out other uses gets easier with each passing day.
Personally I have friends all over the world. Friends I wouldn't have had with out Esperanto.

Let's answer some specific concerns that many people have raised but not bothered to research.
The language is Impractical and awkward?
The two million plus (as of 1995) people that use it says it's not Impractical. Two million was considered the functionally fluent level (IE: able to get by in the necessary elements when travelling) in 1995. Since 1995 the Internet has grown by leaps and bounds, and Esperanto right along with it.
Wikipedia hosts around 250 different languages. Esperanto ranks 15th in the most numerous articles category.
More than these languages to name a few.
16 Turkish
17 Slovak
18 Czech
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_W
Awkward?
Anything that is generally new to people tends to be awkward. That changes with practise. I can vouch for that personally.
Never use it? I think I answered that.
European based?
Ask the thousands of asian speakers if they'd rather learn Esperanto or English, French or one of the the other rule riddled languages (and ALL of their exceptions). The only reason that they would say any but Esperanto is because of the coverage that English has. That however is changing.
Pax Americana is coming to a close. Of course that will draw some scoffs. Naturally when you stand in a very small segment of history, you draw conclusions from that small segment. The Romans thought they would last forever too. The Nazi's were supposed to last 1000 years. Only 994 years short!
(Let's be clear on this. I view the demise of the Nazis as a good thing)
When you stand back and view history as a whole, and watch as history repeats itself, you can draw conclusions from a firmer perspective.
The real value of Esperanto lies in its desire to allow other languages to thrive right along side of it. As an AUXILIARY language, it serves as a means of communication between cultures, and allows tham to continue to grow and enrich human kind much as thay have always done.
The best observable item that says it's making progress is the fact that Esperanto (UEA) holds observer status (Class 'B') at the UN and UNESCO.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Esper
The Iranians atempted to have Esperanto included in the League of Nations as a working language in the 20's, but the French killed that. They didn't want to loose the prestige of owning the "International tongue of diplomacy". The Americans pulled the same thing in the 50's.
Sooner or later, the $600 million plus that is spent on translation services at the UN and EU is going to cause a big problem. (Actually, it already has). Then someone is going to go looking for a solution, and they'll find it right on their door step. The question has already been raised a number of times in the EU.
Think about this. What could you do with 1.2 Billion + USD a year?
Christianity was very slow in making the progress that it did. Not without bumps either. Yet it took hold, and florished.
Hummm, similarity? Time will tell.

Research and draw your own conclusions.

Ĝis!
Tonyo
Posted: Monday, August 17, 2009 1:19:17 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 5/23/2009
Posts: 54
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Location: Spain
Isaac Samuel wrote:
English is enjoying the status of Lingua franca of the world, even though only a fraction of the population speak and write. How did it get there and how long it took to get there ?If you think Esperanto will still flourish and reach English despite lack of solid roots and nourishment, you are an intrepid and unparalleled optimist. I wish you all the best.

In the 20's there was a serious attempt to officialize Esperanto in the Society of Nations. It was rejected by the French ambassador, who said that there already existed an international language: French. You never know how long a language will be the lingua franca of the world. Perhaps we should begin to learn Chinese.
English has become a Lingua Franca because of the economical and political power of the USA, obviously, not for its intrinsic merits. And, yes, we definitely are intrepid optimists Angel
zmjb1
Posted: Sunday, September 13, 2009 10:57:20 AM
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Joined: 6/9/2009
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Location: United States
I think the idea is great and the people are friendly. I only learned it becuase it was someting to do, a hobby.

I don't think it will gain in popularity, although it has a strong community. Promotion is the problem, how do you promote as viable, something that is not very useful?

The fun thing about it is once you learn it, you can talk with people from many different cultures, and this is interesting.

ameebolah wrote:
I was reading the Wikipedia page for Esparanto, "the most widely spoken constructed international auxiliary language," and I felt confused afterward.

Esperanto has its own flag. At first, I was puzzled about why a language would have a flag, but then I came to the conclusion that the language doesn't come from a specific country... so an identity had to be created for it. I thought about this more - a language stems from a place and the area's culture is intwined in it. Is this maybe one of the reasons why the language won't "catch on?"

How do you feel about Esperanto? Do you think it will gain popularity? Do you think that a universal language could eventually be used successfully?

Also, I want to know if anyone here has studied/speaks Esperanto. I would love to have your input!
plumberlondon
Posted: Thursday, July 7, 2011 11:36:36 AM
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Joined: 7/7/2011
Posts: 3
Neurons: 12
Location: United Kingdom
sounds a bit latin?
rogermue
Posted: Sunday, February 5, 2012 11:53:25 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 1/28/2012
Posts: 5,045
Neurons: 34,900
Location: München, Bavaria, Germany
I have just read this interesting thread about Esperanto
and miss one important point.

Esperanto as an artificial language has many advantages. One important advantage is the following.
A lot of people speak only one language and have never learnt a second language. To learn a second natural language you need years. As an average I would say you need five or six years at school to learn the grammar and to build up a sufficient vocabulary.

You can learn the grammar of Esperanto in a week! No other language has such as simple grammar which is basically without exceptions. You can write the grammar of Esperanto one one sheet of paper - perhaps you need two - it has been a long time I did studies in Esperanto.

This simple grammatical structure of Esperanto is indeed an enormous advantage. But there is more to it than it seems. If you learn Esperanto you get an idea of how a language system works or functions - and that in relatively short time.

Normally people need 10 to 12 years of schooling in three foreign languages to have a good understanding of how language works. And to learn three foreign languages is a hard and long job!
With Esperanto you can have this much easier and in very short time.
And if someone has learnt Esperanto he/she can learn a second foreign (natural) language with fewer difficulties simply because he/she knows how language works and how a language is learnt.

I'm not an active speaker of Esperanto, but I studied it for some time as a teenager - I just wanted to know something about an artificial language. That was in the 1960s. And at that timee it was a bit difficult to get learning material and reading matter in Esperanto.

Today you have Wikipedia in Esperanto - if you go to the mainpage of Wikipedia you will find in the bottom lines a lot of languages. Click on Esperanto and you have Wikipedia in Esperanto at your fingertip.
And there are thousands of books translated into Esperanto. As to learning and reading matter you can study it on the internet or buy it via internet.
Tonyo
Posted: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 11:36:24 AM
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Joined: 5/23/2009
Posts: 54
Neurons: 168
Location: Spain
rogermue wrote:
I have just read this interesting thread about Esperanto and miss one important point.
(...)
Normally people need 10 to 12 years of schooling in three foreign languages to have a good understanding of how language works. And to learn three foreign languages is a hard and long job!
With Esperanto you can have this much easier and in very short time.
And if someone has learnt Esperanto he/she can learn a second foreign (natural) language with fewer difficulties simply because he/she knows how language works and how a language is learnt.

Watch this TED-talk from Tim Morley, now a teacher of English and French, who "is pioneering an innovative programme for introducing young children to foreign language awareness using the constructed language of Esperanto".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gSAkUOElsg

The programme is called "A springboard to languages"
http://www.springboard2languages.org/
rogermue
Posted: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 4:19:05 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 1/28/2012
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Location: München, Bavaria, Germany
Hello to everyone on this thread,

for those who doubt about the seriousness of Esperanto
there is a Wikipedia in Esperanto that contains about
180000 articles.
Link

I have no information about the number of book translations
into Esperanto at the moment - but it is an important number.

And a lot of scientists as a German geologist told me correspond
in Esperanto with collegues in other countries using Esperanto
if they don't have a common natural language.
Jonathann
Posted: Sunday, March 16, 2014 1:34:13 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 3/2/2014
Posts: 175
Neurons: 785
Location: Seongnam, Gyeonggi Province, South Korea
Tonyo wrote:
rogermue wrote:
I have just read this interesting thread about Esperanto and miss one important point.
(...)
Normally people need 10 to 12 years of schooling in three foreign languages to have a good understanding of how language works. And to learn three foreign languages is a hard and long job!
With Esperanto you can have this much easier and in very short time.
And if someone has learnt Esperanto he/she can learn a second foreign (natural) language with fewer difficulties simply because he/she knows how language works and how a language is learnt.

Watch this TED-talk from Tim Morley, now a teacher of English and French, who "is pioneering an innovative programme for introducing young children to foreign language awareness using the constructed language of Esperanto".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gSAkUOElsg

The programme is called "A springboard to languages"
http://www.springboard2languages.org/


Yeah, I was once interested in artificial languages.
It was very interesting video clip.
Thanks. Anxious
Jonathann
Posted: Sunday, March 16, 2014 1:42:39 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 3/2/2014
Posts: 175
Neurons: 785
Location: Seongnam, Gyeonggi Province, South Korea
By the way, I am curious about structure of esperanto about:Think

1. variation of the form of verbs
2. how to combine verbs to make verbal phraise
3. how to change a verb into noun, adjective, or adverb form
4. words order of verbs with respect to subject, object, or complement
5. whether there to be functional words like prepositions in English

Somebody tell me about these.Anxious
rogermue
Posted: Sunday, March 16, 2014 3:08:31 AM

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Location: München, Bavaria, Germany
Hi Jonathan,

Read the article in en.wikipedia about Esperanto. It is a good first survey of the topic
and gives further links.
Luker4
Posted: Sunday, March 16, 2014 3:33:04 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 11/19/2013
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Location: Wrocław Pracze, Lower Silesian Voivodeship, Poland
I didn't know of this language untill one day on which I was ill and didn't go to school Dancing , there was a documantary about Esperanto on tv. It very intersting for me becasue I had never (and have neverWhistle ) been to Białystok and because I like languages, the news that one was "created" in Poland was very interesting to me.

here from wikipedia:

Esperanto was created in the late 1870s and early 1880s by Ludwig Lazarus Zamenhof, an ophthalmologist from Białystok, then part of the Russian Empire. According to Zamenhof, he created the language to foster harmony between people from different countries. His feelings and the situation in Białystok may be gleaned from an extract from his letter to Nikolai Borovko:[13]

"The place where I was born and spent my childhood gave direction to all my future struggles. In Białystok the inhabitants were divided into four distinct elements: Russians, Poles, Germans and Jews; each of these spoke their own language and looked on all the others as enemies. In such a town a sensitive nature feels more acutely than elsewhere the misery caused by language division and sees at every step that the diversity of languages is the first, or at least the most influential, basis for the separation of the human family into groups of enemies. I was brought up as an idealist; I was taught that all people were brothers, while outside in the street at every step I felt that there were no people, only Russians, Poles, Germans, Jews and so on. This was always a great torment to my infant mind, although many people may smile at such an 'anguish for the world' in a child. Since at that time I thought that 'grown-ups' were omnipotent, so I often said to myself that when I grew up I would certainly destroy this evil."

—L. L. Zamenhof, in a letter to Nikolai Borovko, ca. 1895
Jonathann
Posted: Sunday, March 16, 2014 11:35:00 AM
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Location: Seongnam, Gyeonggi Province, South Korea
rogermue wrote:
Hi Jonathan,

Read the article in en.wikipedia about Esperanto. It is a good first survey of the topic
and gives further links.


Thanks for your offering information. Drool
rogermue
Posted: Sunday, March 16, 2014 12:38:11 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 1/28/2012
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Location: München, Bavaria, Germany
To KasperNymand
Thanks for your useful link to lernu.net.
I registered and took my first five-minute refresher course.
rogermue
Posted: Sunday, March 16, 2014 12:53:53 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 1/28/2012
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Location: München, Bavaria, Germany
To Jonathann

here is a link to lernu.net showing the simple verb conjugation of Esperanto.
The whole active conjugation consists of six suffixes.

Link
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