mailing list For webmasters
Welcome Guest
Jews / Palestinians Options
fred
Posted: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 3:39:01 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/1/2009
Posts: 1,475
Neurons: 4,457
Location: United States
Should the Isrealis allow the Palestinians to live within the state of Isreal?

Epiphileon
Posted: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 3:53:30 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/22/2009
Posts: 4,286
Neurons: 166,516
I think, yes of course, as long as it does not preclude a two state solution.
I do not believe there will be any peace there without an independent Palestinian state.
fred
Posted: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:22:21 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/1/2009
Posts: 1,475
Neurons: 4,457
Location: United States
Should the Jews have an independent nation within Germany?
The Seer
Posted: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:23:35 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/27/2009
Posts: 75
Neurons: 217
Location: United States

fred wrote:
Should the Isrealis allow the Palestinians to live within the state of Isreal?



Should Americans allow the Native Americans to live in the United States?


uuaschbaer
Posted: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:29:44 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/18/2009
Posts: 1,928
Neurons: 6,180
fred wrote:
Should the Jews have an independent nation within Germany?


What would an argument in favor of that look like, reparations? It seems a bit arbitrary. "Our fathers killed yours, so here's some land." It's an insult actually, suggesting that reparations can be made, and a weird one too.
wanda
Posted: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:50:44 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/6/2009
Posts: 86
Neurons: 251
Location: Poland
[fred wrote:]
Should the Jews have an independent nation within Germany?



You are being extremely provocative. Whereas the first question has been left unanswered since 1948 (the year of the official foundation and recognition of Israel) and have always been extremely disputable, I don't really know what you're trying to put across in the above question???
fred
Posted: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 5:03:51 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/1/2009
Posts: 1,475
Neurons: 4,457
Location: United States
wanda wrote:
fred wrote:
Should the Jews have an independent nation within Germany?



You are being extremely provocative. Whereas the first question has been left unanswered since 1948 (the year of the official foundation and recognition of Israel) and have always been extremely disputable, I don't really know what you're trying to put across in the above question???


It may not be an equal comparison, but we have two nations that did not and does not want another kind of people in it's country. One kind of people shares the two.

Is this a comparison that can be further investigated? If not, why not.
The Seer
Posted: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 5:29:05 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/27/2009
Posts: 75
Neurons: 217
Location: United States
fred wrote:
wanda wrote:
fred wrote:
Should the Jews have an independent nation within Germany?



You are being extremely provocative. Whereas the first question has been left unanswered since 1948 (the year of the official foundation and recognition of Israel) and have always been extremely disputable, I don't really know what you're trying to put across in the above question???


It may not be an equal comparison, but we have two nations that did not and does not want another kind of people in it's country. One kind of people shares the two.

Is this a comparison that can be further investigated? If not, why not.



Your comparison doesn't hold any water. Germany was not a Jewish State, which was later occupied by Germans. The Palestinian territories and the West Bank (originally part of Transjordan), on the other hand, were Arab lands under Ottoman, then British rule. Israel occupies Palestinian land. Look up the word Nakba

wanda
Posted: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 5:47:35 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/6/2009
Posts: 86
Neurons: 251
Location: Poland
[fred wrote:]
[wanda wrote:]
[fred wrote:]
Should the Jews have an independent nation within Germany?



You are being extremely provocative. Whereas the first question has been left unanswered since 1948 (the year of the official foundation and recognition of Israel) and have always been extremely disputable, I don't really know what you're trying to put across in the above question???


It may not be an equal comparison, but we have two nations that did not and does not want another kind of people in it's country. One kind of people shares the two.

Is this a comparison that can be further investigated? If not, why not.


Well, the topic is extremely broad and impossible to reach any consensus at. At the same time, however, it's quite interesting, at least to me. What The Seer wrote above is true. And there are many historical aspects to take into consideration. However, the distinction has to be made between what triggered this hostility between: 1. Germans and Jews; 2. Jews and Palestinians. In case of the former, the core reason was ideology of totalitarian regime which Nazis popularized by means of propaganda brainwashing (I won't discuss the topic of anti-semitism prior to 1933.) In case of the latter, however, the situation is more complex, as here the important thing is the geopolitical situation plus religion.... By the way, did you know that there are anti-Israel Jews living in Israel? I tell ya, this is a "topic-river" (that's a Polish phrase as you presume ;P). But, you asked a good question-congrats!
Geeman
Posted: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 6:29:35 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/2/2009
Posts: 1,787
Neurons: 125,022
Location: Whittier, California, United States
fred wrote:
Should the Isrealis allow the Palestinians to live within the state of Isreal?

Honestly, I'm starting to think we should move the entire population of that area out of the region, put them on an interdicted island chain in the South Pacific (maybe one we nuked back in the 50's) and build a series of theologically based theme parks on all the supposedly "holy" sites. The Dome of the Rock should have a waterslide running down it. Turn the Wailing Wall into a rock climbing wall. The Church of the Holy Sepulchre Haunted House Extravaganza should have a big animatronic Jesus that pops up and scares the kiddies. There could be a giant facility on the fields of Armageddon for people to play laser tag and the most violent video games imaginable. That way the place could actually generate some revenue rather than costing us billions in aid year after pointless year.
RRP
Posted: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 6:54:56 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/29/2009
Posts: 165
Neurons: 514
fred wrote:
Should the Isrealis allow the Palestinians to live within the state of Isreal?


I don't really think it is the nature of the Palestinian movement to allow Israel to exist anyways. So it is the mystery of how pragmatic one can be to avoid the inevitable in many ways, but I know no one wants that.
Luftmarque
Posted: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:36:25 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/17/2009
Posts: 3,119
Neurons: 39,962
Location: Pau, Aquitaine, France
fred wrote:
Should the Israelis allow the Palestinians to live within the state of Israel?

Well you can't have a Muslim majority population, be a democracy, and still be a Jewish state, so admitting all the dispersed Palestinians as Israeli citizens would be the end of Israel as we know it. For me, that would not be a good thing, your opinion may vary.
Joseph Glantz
Posted: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 9:15:52 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/18/2009
Posts: 2,036
Neurons: 6,040
Location: United States
As tempting as it is to give a long response I will give a few points and move on.

1. My only regret is that Israel wasn't formed earlier. That way there wouldn't have been a Holocaust.
2. Most Israelis are first or second generation refugees from countries where they were not allowed to live let alone actively participate in government - including a large segment from Arab states.
3. I doubt that a forum like this would be allowed to exist in any state in the Middle East other than Israel.
early_apex
Posted: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 9:39:40 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/20/2009
Posts: 2,281
Neurons: 12,855
Location: Spindletop, Texas, United States
fred wrote:
Should the Israelis allow the Palestinians to live within the state of Isreal?



Seems to me they should let anyone lives there who wants to, subject to their immigration quotas, providing these people are not coming in for the sole purpose of overthrowing the government in place.

Israel is the only Democracy in the region, and the only economy where goods are produced, rather than just pumped out of the ground. The only manufacturing in the region outside of Israel that I know of is of IED's.
fred
Posted: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 9:43:12 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/1/2009
Posts: 1,475
Neurons: 4,457
Location: United States
Do you think Germany would exist if the majority population was not German?
fred
Posted: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 9:43:49 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/1/2009
Posts: 1,475
Neurons: 4,457
Location: United States
Joseph Glantz wrote:
As tempting as it is to give a long response I will give a few points and move on.



Thank you.
fred
Posted: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 9:54:35 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/1/2009
Posts: 1,475
Neurons: 4,457
Location: United States
fred wrote:
Do you think Germany would exist if the majority population was not German?


But, what about Lebanon?
sarah111
Posted: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 11:59:10 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 11/7/2009
Posts: 137
Neurons: 30
Location: Saudi Arabia
fred wrote:
Should the Isrealis allow the Palestinians to live within the state of Isreal?




I hope so, I hate the Jew's evil works with children and old women Palestinians

and about your second question


I consider Germany the only free country in the world and his great boss(Hitler)won't came back
sarah111
Posted: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 12:07:56 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 11/7/2009
Posts: 137
Neurons: 30
Location: Saudi Arabia
Joseph Glantz wrote:
As tempting as it is to give a long response I will give a few points and move on.

1. My only regret is that Israel wasn't formed earlier. That way there wouldn't have been a Holocaust.
2. Most Israelis are first or second generation refugees from countries where they were not allowed to live let alone actively participate in government - including a large segment from Arab states.
3. I doubt that a forum like this would be allowed to exist in any state in the Middle East other than Israel.






I think the world still refuses the Israelis even U.s
fred
Posted: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 3:16:43 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/1/2009
Posts: 1,475
Neurons: 4,457
Location: United States
sarah111 wrote:
Joseph Glantz wrote:
As tempting as it is to give a long response I will give a few points and move on.

1. My only regret is that Israel wasn't formed earlier. That way there wouldn't have been a Holocaust.
2. Most Israelis are first or second generation refugees from countries where they were not allowed to live let alone actively participate in government - including a large segment from Arab states.
3. I doubt that a forum like this would be allowed to exist in any state in the Middle East other than Israel.






I think the world still refuses the Israelis even U.s


Why do you think that is the case?

The Seer
Posted: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 3:32:05 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/27/2009
Posts: 75
Neurons: 217
Location: United States

early_apex wrote:
fred wrote:
Should the Israelis allow the Palestinians to live within the state of Isreal?



Seems to me they should let anyone lives there who wants to, subject to their immigration quotas, providing these people are not coming in for the sole purpose of overthrowing the government in place.

Israel is the only Democracy in the region, and the only economy where goods are produced, rather than just pumped out of the ground. The only manufacturing in the region outside of Israel that I know of is of IED's.



Have you ever read a newspaper in your life? Israel's "democracy" is a joke that denies basic human rights to Palestinians in Israel, and at times to Russian and Ethiopian Jews. Ethiopian Jews lived in the equivalent of trailer parks, even though they serve in the Israeli military. There is no equal representation across the board in Israel. By the way, Lebanon is a democracy and it borders Israel. Just in case you forgot it was there for past, um I don't know, 60 years or so!

Many neighboring countries produce many goods other than oil and "IED's" as you so intelligently put it. A little research would go a long way in enlightening yourself. There is an entire world around you, take notice.
fred
Posted: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 3:42:55 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/1/2009
Posts: 1,475
Neurons: 4,457
Location: United States
The Seer wrote:

early_apex wrote:
fred wrote:
Should the Israelis allow the Palestinians to live within the state of Isreal?



Seems to me they should let anyone lives there who wants to, subject to their immigration quotas, providing these people are not coming in for the sole purpose of overthrowing the government in place.

Israel is the only Democracy in the region, and the only economy where goods are produced, rather than just pumped out of the ground. The only manufacturing in the region outside of Israel that I know of is of IED's.



Have you ever read a newspaper in your life? Israel's "democracy" is a joke that denies basic human rights to Palestinians in Israel, and at times to Russian and Ethiopian Jews. Ethiopian Jews lived in the equivalent of trailer parks, even though they serve in the Israeli military. There is no equal representation across the board in Israel. By the way, Lebanon is a democracy and it borders Israel. Just in case you forgot it was there for past, um I don't know, 60 years or so!

Many neighboring countries produce many goods other than oil and "IED's" as you so intelligently put it. A little research would go a long way in enlightening yourself. There is an entire world around you, take notice.


By Lebanon I meant how it used to be a mostly non Muslim country until it was over-run by Palestinians and Syrians.
early_apex
Posted: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 4:48:05 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/20/2009
Posts: 2,281
Neurons: 12,855
Location: Spindletop, Texas, United States
The Seer wrote:

early_apex wrote:
fred wrote:
Should the Israelis allow the Palestinians to live within the state of Israel?



Seems to me they should let anyone lives there who wants to, subject to their immigration quotas, providing these people are not coming in for the sole purpose of overthrowing the government in place.

Israel is the only Democracy in the region, and the only economy where goods are produced, rather than just pumped out of the ground. The only manufacturing in the region outside of Israel that I know of is of IED's.


Have you ever read a newspaper in your life? Israel's "democracy" is a joke that denies basic human rights to Palestinians in Israel, and at times to Russian and Ethiopian Jews. Ethiopian Jews lived in the equivalent of trailer parks, even though they serve in the Israeli military. There is no equal representation across the board in Israel. By the way, Lebanon is a democracy and it borders Israel. Just in case you forgot it was there for past, um I don't know, 60 years or so!

Many neighboring countries produce many goods other than oil and "IED's" as you so intelligently put it. A little research would go a long way in enlightening yourself. There is an entire world around you, take notice.


I would much rather spout opinions than look things up. Can you point me to a newspaper article that explains how Israel's democracy is joke?
Winnie
Posted: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 5:02:54 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/13/2009
Posts: 160
Neurons: 485
Location: France
fred wrote:


By Lebanon I meant how it used to be a mostly non Muslim country until it was over-run by Palestinians and Syrians.


Being Lebanese, I can say that this statement is not correct. Lebanon has never been a mostly non Muslim country. The Muslim population has been at least around 50%. The percentage has grown higher now to more than 60%, but that has nothing to do with Palestinians or Syrians. It's simply because of Muslims tend to reproduce more, and because Christians tend to immigrate to other countries.

There is a large population of Palestinians but very few are given the Lebanese citizenship, even those who has been born in Lebanon. Lebanon (and the Palestinians) insist they should go back to Palestine.
The Seer
Posted: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 5:38:16 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/27/2009
Posts: 75
Neurons: 217
Location: United States
early_apex wrote:
The Seer wrote:

early_apex wrote:
fred wrote:
Should the Israelis allow the Palestinians to live within the state of Israel?



Seems to me they should let anyone lives there who wants to, subject to their immigration quotas, providing these people are not coming in for the sole purpose of overthrowing the government in place.

Israel is the only Democracy in the region, and the only economy where goods are produced, rather than just pumped out of the ground. The only manufacturing in the region outside of Israel that I know of is of IED's.


Have you ever read a newspaper in your life? Israel's "democracy" is a joke that denies basic human rights to Palestinians in Israel, and at times to Russian and Ethiopian Jews. Ethiopian Jews lived in the equivalent of trailer parks, even though they serve in the Israeli military. There is no equal representation across the board in Israel. By the way, Lebanon is a democracy and it borders Israel. Just in case you forgot it was there for past, um I don't know, 60 years or so!

Many neighboring countries produce many goods other than oil and "IED's" as you so intelligently put it. A little research would go a long way in enlightening yourself. There is an entire world around you, take notice.


I would much rather spout opinions than look things up. Can you point me to a newspaper article that explains how Israel's democracy is joke?




This article sheds light on the treatment of Ethiopian Jews in Israel. Try reading the entire article.

Ethiopian In Israeli Riot Over Dumping of Donated Blood


Palestinians in Israel being kicked out of their own homes. This occurred earlier this year.

Israel Evicts Palestinians from Homes

These are just a few links to get you started on your new journey of discovery.


And let me just clarify that there are many Israeli citizens who are working extremely hard to prevent these things. The majority of Israelis, Arab or Jew, want to live in peace and are tired of being used as pawns in a political chess match.


bugdoctor
Posted: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 5:55:15 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/8/2009
Posts: 1,789
Neurons: 5,456
Location: United States - Georgia
uuaschbaer wrote:
fred wrote:
Should the Jews have an independent nation within Germany?


What would an argument in favor of that look like, reparations? It seems a bit arbitrary. "Our fathers killed yours, so here's some land." It's an insult actually, suggesting that reparations can be made, and a weird one too.


Just how far back do you want to go with this? I had ancestors who were slaves in Rome. Does Italy owe me?
Geeman
Posted: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 9:15:36 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/2/2009
Posts: 1,787
Neurons: 125,022
Location: Whittier, California, United States
bugdoctor wrote:
uuaschbaer wrote:
fred wrote:
Should the Jews have an independent nation within Germany?


What would an argument in favor of that look like, reparations? It seems a bit arbitrary. "Our fathers killed yours, so here's some land." It's an insult actually, suggesting that reparations can be made, and a weird one too.


Just how far back do you want to go with this? I had ancestors who were slaves in Rome. Does Italy owe me?

Yes. But they pay you in denarius. The exchange rate between $US and ancient Roman coins is very bad, even before the banking system went down the tubes.
uuaschbaer
Posted: Thursday, November 12, 2009 12:55:55 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/18/2009
Posts: 1,928
Neurons: 6,180
bugdoctor wrote:
uuaschbaer wrote:
fred wrote:
Should the Jews have an independent nation within Germany?


What would an argument in favor of that look like, reparations? It seems a bit arbitrary. "Our fathers killed yours, so here's some land." It's an insult actually, suggesting that reparations can be made, and a weird one too.


Just how far back do you want to go with this? I had ancestors who were slaves in Rome. Does Italy owe me?


No, that's what I'm saying, it's nonsensical. If reparations should ever be paid it's to those who suffered directly, not their children. At least, that seems a decent approach to me. The issue becomes more complicated if you consider the ways in which the society wherein the children live is not a meritocracy.
Yorker
Posted: Thursday, November 12, 2009 2:03:06 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 687
Neurons: 2,084
Location: United Kingdom
Fred wrote:

Should the Isrealis allow the Palestinians to live within the state of Isreal?


_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Of course they should be able to share the land. This is the problem we will always have, religious intolerance, racial intolerance it will go and on and on..........

‘You cannot hope to build a better world without improving the individuals. To that end, each of us must work for our own improvement and, at the same time, share a general responsibility for all humanity, our particular duty being to aid those to whom we think we can be most useful’.
Marie Curie


bugdoctor
Posted: Thursday, November 12, 2009 2:20:00 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/8/2009
Posts: 1,789
Neurons: 5,456
Location: United States - Georgia
There has never been a Palestinian state. ONE of the reasons, among others, is that - as I understand it- the Palestinian authorities don't wish to recognize Israel as a sovereign nation.
Users browsing this topic
Guest


Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.