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FounDit
Posted: Tuesday, March 3, 2020 3:39:35 PM

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An interesting read. I'm not sure what to think about this yet.

http://nautil.us/issue/82/panpsychism/consciousness-isnt-self_centered
Epiphileon
Posted: Thursday, March 5, 2020 11:00:27 AM

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I haven't read the entire article yet. However I have yet to see any hypothetical case for panpsychism that offers any reasonable explanation for how individual consciousnesses become communicated to the individual entities that display consciousness.
FounDit
Posted: Thursday, March 5, 2020 11:32:08 AM

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Epiphileon wrote:
I haven't read the entire article yet. However I have yet to see any hypothetical case for panpsychism that offers any reasonable explanation for how individual consciousnesses become communicated to the individual entities that display consciousness.


Yes. I agree. It's an interesting idea, but seems a little too far-fetched to me. I would need a lot more evidence before I could accept the idea of panpsychism. It's just a little too "science fiction-y" to me.
TMe
Posted: Thursday, March 5, 2020 12:13:58 PM

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I am Brick wall Brick wall Brick wall
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Saturday, March 7, 2020 1:14:48 PM

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It IS interesting.

One can compare it to traditional "Old Testament" religions, somewhat.
God imbued all of creation with his spirit . . . so in that respect, that God (Allah, Jehova Jahweh - whatever name we give it) IS the panpsyche.

Also Gaiaism - one spirit (feminine this time) embracing all - animate and inanimate alike - and which one can contact, and in which one can (with effort) immerse oneself and become aware of the whole.

Like TMe, I have a bit too much "I am" to consider that I am really just a minor manifestation of the whole psyche.
I know (subjectively - sorry, no evidence) that I'm me and I can have a distinct position in space if I want. And that this body is not fully "me" - I can observe the body, so it's something separate.
But I don't feel like I'm the whole universe.
FounDit
Posted: Friday, April 3, 2020 4:53:42 PM

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Two more articles on the topic, and I've begun to wonder about panpsychism and consciousness. An interesting thought occurred while reading these:

Is is possible that consciousness exists on a developmental level like life itself? In other words, could it be that consciousness exists in varying degrees of development, and finds its highest expression in us?...Think

It was the thought that even primitive creatures such as worms can experience pain that brought the idea to the fore, such that even a rudimentary consciousness might exist.

https://getpocket.com/explore/item/why-can-t-the-world-s-greatest-minds-solve-the-mystery-of-consciousness?utm_source=pocket-newtab

https://getpocket.com/explore/item/the-real-problem?utm_source=pocket-newtab
Russell Oxendine
Posted: Thursday, May 20, 2021 10:21:21 AM
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It goes against bible teaching...The scriptures indicate at death, the humans' conscience ceases to exist...Therefore, I wouldn't even begin to be able to accept the concept...
InfoSister
Posted: Thursday, May 20, 2021 10:15:35 PM

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One needs to define what one means by consciousness. It is a biological fact that one-celled entities like amoeba are capable of moving away from a painful stimulus. However, they do not have a neural system which is complex enough to allow for self-reflection. True consciousness is the ability to self-reflect and to remember the past and project into the future. Thus FounDit is on the right track when he says that consciousness exists in varying degrees of development and finds its highest expression in us.

However, one must also remember that consciousness is not just a physiological process, it is a spiritual process as well. That is why DragOnspeaker can make the assertion that "I know (subjectively - sorry, no evidence) that I'm me and I can have a distinct position in space if I want. And that this body is not fully "me" - I can observe the body, so it's something separate. But I don't feel like I'm the whole universe." You are correct, you are capable of self-reflection and you know that you are larger than your physical body. After all humanity is a soul-body composite. Because the soul is not physical, it does not die and continues to exist after the physical body dies.

Thus, I must respectfully disagree with Russel Oxendine who states that the scriptures indicate that the human conscience ceases to exist after death. To prove this all you have to do is look at 2 Samuel (Old Testament) where Saul goes to the witch of Endor to conjure up Samuel. Samuel's spirit rises and speaks to Saul about what was done, what was being done at that moment and what would happen in the future. This would not be possible if the human spirit (or consciousness) died when the body did. It also shows that Samuel is Samuel, not some part of an amorphous blob of spirit. God is all-powerful: therefore, He does not need to pull Himself apart to create individual human beings or their souls. He is perfectly capable of creating individual souls out of nothing for each human person who comes into existence.
FounDit
Posted: Thursday, May 20, 2021 11:22:58 PM

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InfoSister wrote:
One needs to define what one means by consciousness.
We here who have discussed this before generally agree on a definition of an "I" of the mind, a sense of self that exists in a body, and which also exists in and relates to, the world around us; that we possess a quality called imagination that can create ideas for things that do not yet exist, and using our imagination and tool-making ability, can bring those ideas into reality. This is the basic idea of consciousness.

It is a biological fact that one-celled entities like amoeba are capable of moving away from a painful stimulus. However, they do not have a neural system which is complex enough to allow for self-reflection. True consciousness is the ability to self-reflect and to remember the past and project into the future. Thus FounDit is on the right track when he says that consciousness exists in varying degrees of development and finds its highest expression in us.

However, one must also remember that consciousness is not just a physiological process, it is a spiritual process as well.
"Spiritual"? Or is it just the quality of imagination that produces that belief? Being able to imagine something doesn't necessarily indicate it is real.

That is why DragOnspeaker can make the assertion that "I know (subjectively - sorry, no evidence) that I'm me and I can have a distinct position in space if I want. And that this body is not fully "me" - I can observe the body, so it's something separate. But I don't feel like I'm the whole universe." You are correct, you are capable of self-reflection and you know that you are larger than your physical body. After all humanity is a soul-body composite. Because the soul is not physical, it does not die and continues to exist after the physical body dies.

Thus, I must respectfully disagree with Russel Oxendine who states that the scriptures indicate that the human conscience ceases to exist after death. To prove this all you have to do is look at 2 Samuel (Old Testament) where Saul goes to the witch of Endor to conjure up Samuel. Samuel's spirit rises and speaks to Saul about what was done, what was being done at that moment and what would happen in the future. This would not be possible if the human spirit (or consciousness) died when the body did. It also shows that Samuel is Samuel, not some part of an amorphous blob of spirit. God is all-powerful: therefore, He does not need to pull Himself apart to create individual human beings or their souls. He is perfectly capable of creating individual souls out of nothing for each human person who comes into existence.

I have some difficulty with that idea. I've never heard of anyone who is able to conjure up the spirit of a dead person, and have a conversation with that person. Anyone who can do that would be world-renown, and millions of people would flock to hear such a person describe existence after death. Since that has never happened, I question the truthfulness of that story, and what it implies.
Robert Kane
Posted: Tuesday, May 25, 2021 4:46:47 PM

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What do people think about mediums like James Van Praagh or Rosemary Altea? I have read a lot of their books. I am fascinated by the whole idea of communicating with loved ones who have passed on to the other side. Every profession has its share of quacks and dishonest people who are just out to rip you off (auto mechanics, doctors, contractors, etc.), and mediums are no different. There was Cleo, who ran ads on tv, and was eventually shut down. I know Sylvia Browne had her share of critics. But there are those who seem to be the real deal, and I get that feeling from Van Praagh and Altea. The stories in their books are mind blowing. Anyway, I am curious what others think.
Russell Oxendine
Posted: Sunday, September 12, 2021 2:12:39 PM
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InfoSister wrote:
Thus, I must respectfully disagree with Russel Oxendine who states that the scriptures indicate that the human conscience ceases to exist after death. To prove this all you have to do is look at 2 Samuel (Old Testament) where Saul goes to the witch of Endor to conjure up Samuel. Samuel's spirit rises and speaks to Saul about what was done, what was being done at that moment and what would happen in the future. This would not be possible if the human spirit (or consciousness) died when the body did. It also shows that Samuel is Samuel, not some part of an amorphous blob of spirit. God is all-powerful: therefore, He does not need to pull Himself apart to create individual human beings or their souls. He is perfectly capable of creating individual souls out of nothing for each human person who comes into existence.




InfoSister, thank you for the cordial reply!....I've reviewed that account u referenced...I can't see where that account signifies that Saul actually communicated with dead Samuel?...If u read it in context, it is indicating that Saul was tricked by demonic entities into believing that He (Saul) was speaking with dead Samuels' spirit?...With all due respect, can u guide me further into where/how u are conceiving this notion, please?....

Also, there are numerous other scriptures that shun the belief of an afterlife...Thank you in advance, hun!...:)

Russell Oxendine
Posted: Monday, September 13, 2021 7:09:21 AM
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Robert Kane wrote:
What do people think about mediums like James Van Praagh or Rosemary Altea? I have read a lot of their books. I am fascinated by the whole idea of communicating with loved ones who have passed on to the other side. Every profession has its share of quacks and dishonest people who are just out to rip you off (auto mechanics, doctors, contractors, etc.), and mediums are no different. There was Cleo, who ran ads on tv, and was eventually shut down. I know Sylvia Browne had her share of critics. But there are those who seem to be the real deal, and I get that feeling from Van Praagh and Altea. The stories in their books are mind blowing. Anyway, I am curious what others think.




Hi Robert, those "mediums" are driven by demons!...Ever since the Garden of Eden when Satan lied to Eve about her NOT dying via disobedience to our Maker, it has been the main "lie" that Satan and his demons use to "trick" unsuspecting people into believing in an "afterlife"....The scriptures make it clear that when one dies the only hope for them living again is when the resurrection is instituted...Until then when a person passes they are indeed dead, non-existent!...
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