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Dismantling the Anti-vaxx Industry Options
Hope123
Posted: Saturday, September 4, 2021 1:11:56 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
Posts: 10,240
Neurons: 58,421
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
Globally in 2019 7% of people disagreed that vaccines are safe and 5% of people disagreed that vaccines are effective. That varies of course according to country. Therefore 90+% globally agreed that vaccines are safe and effective.

So where do all the anti vaxxers come from today? It originally stemmed from a scientific paper that said that vaccines cause autism, and even though the study was later revoked as faulty, the conspiracy caught on.

Today 65% of the message of misinformation being spread re vaccines can be traced to twelve - just 12- people on Facebook and Twitter. It includes Robert F. Kennedy, nephew of John F. Kennedy. But just because the message is there, why would people believe such ludicrous theories? e.g. Bill Gates has inserted a microchip in the vaccine? And other illogical conspiracies? It seems we are living in the golden age of stupidity.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01260-6

I had no idea that Anti-Vaxxers are so well organized and financed - and were so even before Covid. They lie to people and find many ways to stir up their fears.

"the key protagonists in the ‘anti-vaxx industry’ are a coherent group of professional propagandists. These are people running multi-million-dollar organizations, incorporated mainly in the USA, with as many as 60 staff each1. They produce training manuals for activists, tailor their messages for different audiences, and arrange meetings akin to annual trades conferences, like any other industry2"


As for Covid they have three main parts to their dangerous untrue message:"COVID-19 isn’t dangerous; vaccines are dangerous; you can’t trust doctors or scientists.”
They say ONLY a small percentage die, ignoring the grief, financial costs, and the health loss of those with Long Covid. Plus who knows what effects there will be ten, twenty, thirty years from now on the heart and other organs of those with light cases or who were asymptomatic.

And along with that goes their anti-masking message: "Masking is dangerous especially for children." There have been studies with tests for the kids and they are NOT dangerous.

"When we see anti-vaxx misinformation on social media, we must resist falling into the trap of engaging with it, however tempting it may be to point out obvious flaws and falsehoods. Engaging with misinformation online spreads it further: if we scratch the itch, we spread the disease. It is far more helpful and effective to instead share good information about vaccines from trusted sources. And when we each have our turn to be vaccinated, we should tell our friends and followers. Photos and clips posted on social media of the early recipients of vaccines encourage us all and show there is nothing to fear...All of us have been doing our bit in 2020 and 2021 to contain the COVID-19 pandemic. Think of the friends and family you have not seen. Think of the medics risking their own lives and losing patients to this cruel virus. Think of the Herculean efforts made by scientists to develop a vaccine in record time. The anti-vaxx industry and technology companies, however, for their own solipsistic reasons, threaten to derail all that progress. It is up to all of us to stop them from doing so."


What this article does not tell us is why there are anti vaxxers. WHY do they want people to die? Why do they want them to get the measles, chicken pox, mumps, tetanus, diphtheria etc?

Any thoughts as to their motivation? It has to be money somehow for the originators. The believers may have several reasons including religion and politics, but this has resulted in some countries in a surge of infectious diseases that had been previously or nearly eradicated. Measles is back in the US for instance.

And many Covid deaths, including those of many healthcare workers on the frontline, could have been prevented especially in some countries if it had not been for the misinformation.

Edited - I wonder how many have spread this misinformation re vaccines and hypocritically have gotten themselves vaccinated to protect themselves.

If not, I wonder if they have a death wish. Who doesn't try their best to protect their life and that of their family? It isn't as if it costs a lot. In fact the Covid vaccine is free.
Margarit Bamllari
Posted: Saturday, September 4, 2021 9:09:34 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/4/2009
Posts: 225
Neurons: 920
There is a big difference between anti-vaxxers and people who don't feel comfortable getting the jab. In other words we should distinguish those who have an agenda (sponsoredThink Think) and others who don't feel like getting the vaccine. Probably anti-vaxxers are just the same people of those who refuse to get vaccinated with the difference that the latter are the silent majority we don't hear their voice.

Among the vaccinated and non vaccinated, it is hard to comprehend that any of those groups would like to see a single death more than yearly natural deaths of the world population.
Jyrkkä Jätkä
Posted: Saturday, September 4, 2021 4:19:32 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/2009
Posts: 45,387
Neurons: 648,813
Location: Helsinki, Southern Finland Province, Finland
"Probably anti-vaxxers are just the same people of those who refuse to get vaccinated with the difference that the latter are the silent majority we don't hear their voice."

???
BobShilling
Posted: Monday, September 6, 2021 1:30:06 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/1/2018
Posts: 1,608
Neurons: 8,905
Location: Beroun, Stredocesky, Czech Republic
Hope123 wrote:
It seems we are living in the golden age of stupidity.

Quote:
What this article does not tell us is why there are anti vaxxers. WHY do they want people to die? Why do they want them to get the measles, chicken pox, mumps, tetanus, diphtheria etc?

Any thoughts as to their motivation?



I refrain from comment on either of those quotes.

I have my thoughts, but, if I expressed them here, the thread would soon disintegrate into one of those messes that used to mar the politics forum.
Hope123
Posted: Monday, September 6, 2021 9:38:19 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
Posts: 10,240
Neurons: 58,421
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
BobShilling wrote:
Hope123 wrote:
It seems we are living in the golden age of stupidity.

Quote:
What this article does not tell us is why there are anti vaxxers. WHY do they want people to die? Why do they want them to get the measles, chicken pox, mumps, tetanus, diphtheria etc?

Any thoughts as to their motivation?



I refrain from comment on either of those quotes.

I have my thoughts, but, if I expressed them here, the thread would soon disintegrate into one of those messes that used to mar the politics forum.


Hi Bob.

It was a sincere question. There have to be other reasons besides politics. My first thought is money as it is a business. Just not sure how or why. It doesn't make sense to me.

They may not exactly want to cause death or illness through disease but do not let those consequences stop them.

As for stupidity:

Those who are against lockdowns, refuse to get the vaccine to 𝙥𝙧𝙚𝙫𝙚𝙣𝙩 lockdowns.

You can't make this up.

The unvaccinated are plugging up hospitals and ICUs preventing vaccinated from getting medical treatment and people are dying of gallstones in the hallway - actual case.

There are more Ivermectin caused poisoning illnesses, a horse treatment for parasites, as well as Covid and Long Covid taking up beds, costing fortunes, and they are mostly the unvaccinated who don't trust doctors about a vaccine but trust them when they get sick. In Canada taxpayers are paying for their healthcare.

Do you think Facebook could end the anti-vax death cult if they wanted to? It has been suggested but I don't know because my FB is limited to 12 family/friends for pix etc.

And if they think Jesus is protecting them, when they get sick they should go to church and let the heathens have the hospital beds. Or if they get their info from Fox News or Facebook, go to Fox News or Facebook hospitals. Whistle Whistle

"Land of the Free, Home of the Conspiracy Theory". Sorry, I'm Canadian. But I've noticed for many years the growing % of Americans who believe in all kinds of conspiracy theories. Bill Gates is injecting them with chips when they get the vaccine? Well I'm waiting for mine to start working. Whistle

I used to have empathy but this has dragged on for so long because of some rebellious leftover against authority in many countries world wide that I now have zero empathy for unvaccinated adults who are now getting sick. My empathy is reserved for their vaccinated family/friends who wanted them to do the right thing, and the exhausted healthcare workers who are sacrificing themselves because of sheer and selfish stubbornness. Many have even given their lives.

News reported one infected guy right before he died saying "I was just too stubborn". I forget how many kids he left his partner to bring up alone. All kinds of stories I used to tear up at and now don't.

Anyhow to sum up, the Anti Vax as a business denotes to me it must be money motivated somehow. Just not sure how. And wish so many did not believe their misinformation.

Edited: promise that's all I have to say re the subject, but I felt some criticism in your post and felt as if I had to explain with examples to defend my comments. I had thought the thread was dead and more just FYI re knowledge of how it is organized. I had no idea of just how organized and how financed it is till I saw the article.



BobShilling
Posted: Tuesday, September 7, 2021 9:46:52 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/1/2018
Posts: 1,608
Neurons: 8,905
Location: Beroun, Stredocesky, Czech Republic
Hope123 wrote:

I felt some criticism in your post


I assure you that none was implied.

It's simply that, when confronted with figures such as those give below, I can do nothing to explain the thought processes of such people except think that an awful lot of people are incredibly stupid.

Talking to such people gets us nowhere. Talking about them doesn't help anyone much

40% of Americans believe that God created humans in their present form within the last 10,000 years. link

32% believe that President Joe Biden only won the 2020 election due to voter fraud. link

17% believe group of Satan-worshipping elites who run a child sex ring are trying to control our politics and media.

8% don't believe that humans landed on the moon in the late 60s and 70s.

link


And, just for fun:

Probably over 1% (that's 33 million people) believe the earth is flat


ps. I chose figures on Americans because such figures were easy to find. If I had the time, I could find similarly alarming figures on crazy beliefs in many countries.


La Linea
Posted: Thursday, September 9, 2021 8:25:41 AM

Rank: Member

Joined: 7/1/2010
Posts: 41
Neurons: 3,981
BobShilling wrote:
Hope123 wrote:

I felt some criticism in your post


I assure you that none was implied.

It's simply that, when confronted with figures such as those give below, I can do nothing to explain the thought processes of such people except think that an awful lot of people are incredibly stupid.

Talking to such people gets us nowhere. Talking about them doesn't help anyone much

40% of Americans believe that God created humans in their present form within the last 10,000 years. https://news.gallup.com/poll/261680/americans-believe-creationism.aspx

32% believe that President Joe Biden only won the 2020 election due to voter fraud. https://edition.cnn.com/2021/06/21/politics/biden-voter-fraud-big-lie-monmouth-poll/index.html

17% believe group of Satan-worshipping elites who run a child sex ring are trying to control our politics and media.

8% don't believe that humans landed on the moon in the late 60s and 70s.

https://www.npr.org/2020/12/30/951095644/even-if-its-bonkers-poll-finds-many-believe-qanon-and-other-conspiracy-theories?t=1631020542556


And, just for fun:

Probably over 1% (that's 33 million people) believe the earth is flat









ps. I chose figures on Americans because such figures were easy to find. If I had the time, I could find similarly alarming figures on crazy beliefs in many countries.







Either 3.3 million or 10%.
BobShilling
Posted: Thursday, September 9, 2021 1:13:25 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/1/2018
Posts: 1,608
Neurons: 8,905
Location: Beroun, Stredocesky, Czech Republic
La Linea wrote:
Either 3.3 million or 10%.


You are right. Thanks for spotting my blunder. I meant 3.3 million.
Kampong
Posted: Wednesday, September 22, 2021 3:47:39 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 9/30/2017
Posts: 55
Neurons: 119,969
Location: Stavanger, Rogaland, Norway
Isn't it also a sad sign of the time that we have a tendency to be inaccurate while quoting.
Vaccines are not (and probably never will be) 100.000% safe. They are just such fantastic tools to fight a number of scourges. I name pox, TB and measles among a few. There will always be a small ( very small ) risk of infection through the needle, mix-up of doses, manufacturing issues...
Danger versus benefit is a factor that has to be evaluated, monitored/ followed closely.

Some people deny that Covid-SARS-19 exists, or is a problem, so obviously, they deny the benefit of getting vaccinated. At least that is consistent. I'm writing from Norway and the most prominent denier died asphyxiated for his stupidity, (he didn't want to go to the hospital with a disease that did not exist), so the number of remaining anti-vaxxers here has practically evaporated.

Note that there are pertinent and perfectly reasonable reasons to not get vaccinated. My aunt was one of them, she had previous experience that her body reacted violently to flu shots, and her general health wasn't up to yet another one. She's now dead, but that was from her pre-existing health problem.

P.S. Here in Norway the number of births increased significantly after the vaccination programme started. Using the logic of anti-vaxx, it should now be disproven that vaccination has any adverse effect on fertility.
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