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Is Jesus really exist in history? Options
Kirill Vorobyov
Posted: Friday, March 13, 2020 6:07:42 AM

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Just to follow up:

According to a number of sources I've studied, the census returns (tabulae censoriae) would be stored at the specialised archive located in the Temple of The Nymphs in Rome.

Here is what Wikipedia has regarding that Temple's fate:

The temple was founded in the 3rd century BC or the early 2nd century BC. It was damaged by a fire in the mid 1st century BC and probably also affected by the citywide fire in 80 AD. This temple was on the Campus Martius. If still in use by the 4th-century, the temple would have been closed during the persecution of pagans in the late Roman Empire, when the Christian Emperors issued edicts prohibiting all non-Christian worship and sanctuaries.

So the temple was closed, but what happened to the priceless archive that was located there remains unclear.

canadianbeethoven
Posted: Sunday, October 25, 2020 6:05:03 PM
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Jesus was a recognized character in the history...
jacobusmaximus
Posted: Monday, October 26, 2020 4:15:35 AM

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canadianbeethoven wrote:
Jesus was a recognized character in the history...


Amen.

Thanks for your post, cb.
Stefano Gomez
Posted: Sunday, December 20, 2020 3:01:50 PM

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he could've have had existed, but he was given a more simbolic value and his story was modified to be adapted depending on the interest and necessities of different societies and times. So he exist today in way that he is adapting to the new morals and ethics while at the same time he does not let people change and gives abusive leaders a reason to remain in power.
Romany
Posted: Thursday, December 24, 2020 12:41:35 PM
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One question: - in what organised system would a government expect whole countries to be in a turmoil merely in order for people to go to the place they had been born in in order for a census to take place? What would happen to your own country if they suddenly decided, one year, to do this?

The Romans were probably the most organised rulers the world has had: why would they suddenly decide to do it this way: people having to leave their jobs and their homes & businesses ;and splitting up of husbands, wives, children in order to travel - in a time when travel was both incredibly slow and expensive - to the place where they had just happened to have been born??

There is nothing - not a single word - in any document yet found, which sets out such a ridiculous plan- let alone any of the information thus gathered. We have thousands of documents from the Romans from every census they ever took, in every place around the world where they ruled.

Of course no-one had to return home. The Roman army alone had troops from Africa, Asia, Europe...there would have been no troops left if they all took off on the months-long journey to any of these places which such a mixture of people called home?

Such an impossible mission would have been a HUGE topic of conversation, dissension, rebellion, and sheer stupidity, that the entire ancient world would have been discussing it - in private letters, in government documents, in stories and poetry - because every country would have been in total disarray.And not one person in the whole wide world EVER mentioned it?

How on earth do you think such a massive world movement would have taken place in the days before technology??
Epiphileon
Posted: Friday, December 25, 2020 3:44:51 AM

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That is an excellent point Romany one that I have never heard addressed before.
thar
Posted: Friday, December 25, 2020 4:05:15 AM

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But did ordinary people move much?
Soldiers, yes - but you could age the equivalent of a postal vote. Merchants, yes, but again maybe there we ways and means, proxies. But for the poor working sod - maybe he would have to. And maybe just the Jews, at that. A troublesome lot, so a bit of a show of Roman power wouldn't go amiss.

Like the poor laws, where the only parish that had to look after you was your home parish, or maybe your apprenticed or married one. Still doesn't aid mobility.

Good point, though. I didn't know if wasnt in the histories. I guess I had assumed it was fact because it would be so evident in the official histories of the time, and problematic teaching it as an event that happened, if it weren't in the records.

Robert Kane
Posted: Thursday, April 15, 2021 12:26:45 AM

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I found this in an article from 1917 in “The Guardian” newspaper:

As far as we know, the first author outside the church to mention Jesus is the Jewish historian Flavius Josephus, who wrote a history of Judaism around AD93. He has two references to Jesus. One of these is controversial because it is thought to be corrupted by Christian scribes (probably turning Josephus’s negative account into a more positive one), but the other is not suspicious – a reference to James, the brother of “Jesus, the so-called Christ”.

About 20 years after Josephus we have the Roman politicians Pliny and Tacitus, who held some of the highest offices of state at the beginning of the second century AD. From Tacitus we learn that Jesus was executed while Pontius Pilate was the Roman prefect in charge of Judaea (AD26-36) and Tiberius was emperor (AD14-37) – reports that fit with the timeframe of the gospels. Pliny contributes the information that, where he was governor in northern Turkey, Christians worshipped Christ as a god.


Here is some food for thought. Let’s say, for argument’s sake, that Jesus really did live and die. Now, where is the evidence that he died and lived?
JessiWan
Posted: Friday, April 16, 2021 9:11:50 PM
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ROBODUCK wrote:
Trichakra wrote:
Hi

What is the evidence that Jesus exist in history?


Seek and ye shall find! For those who believe, no words are necessary. For those who don't believe, no words are possible!


This is not true. The original poster, I believe, was asking about whether Jesus was a historical figure. She was not asking whether he was a religious figure.
JessiWan
Posted: Friday, April 16, 2021 9:14:53 PM
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Robert Kane wrote:
I found this in an article from 1917 in “The Guardian” newspaper:

As far as we know, the first author outside the church to mention Jesus is the Jewish historian Flavius Josephus, who wrote a history of Judaism around AD93. He has two references to Jesus. One of these is controversial because it is thought to be corrupted by Christian scribes (probably turning Josephus’s negative account into a more positive one), but the other is not suspicious – a reference to James, the brother of “Jesus, the so-called Christ”.


If Jesus had a brother, that means that Mary would not have been a virgin. She may or may not have been one when Jesus was born, but she would definitely NOT be a virgin if she had given birth to James.
ChillinDrina
Posted: Saturday, April 17, 2021 7:41:13 AM

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The story of Jesus, his miracles, his apostles, and his dying on the cross has been a "legend" for 2021 years. It is said in the Old Testament of a savior to come save us. This is how I consider the Bible to be, a book of stories where ordinary people did extraordinary things because they belived in God. That's why in the New Testament, all miracles were through Jesus to "fulfill the prophesies and the prophets." And establish divine our New Covenant you got out leteIr.
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