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pride and humility Options
vipin viswanathan
Posted: Friday, June 26, 2020 6:57:00 AM

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“Why is dust and ashes proud?” Why proud! Let the Scripture tell why. “Because in his life he put forth his inmost parts.”
What is “put forth,” but “threw afar off”? This is to go forth away. For to enter within, is to long after the inmost parts; to put forth the inmost parts, is to go forth away. The proud man puts forth the inmost parts, the humble man earnestly desires the inmost parts. If we are cast out by pride, let us return by humility.

The above paragraph is written by St Augustine of 4th Century. I cannot understand his definition of pride and humility.

Epiphileon
Posted: Sunday, June 28, 2020 5:21:16 AM

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I am not surprised Vipin I don't understand it either it is couched in colloquialisms that apparently have not been used in a very long time.
Romany
Posted: Sunday, June 28, 2020 6:37:34 AM
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Vipim -

there was no such thing as the English language in the 4thCentury. Saint A. wrote in Latin.

It looks very much as though someone has tried to translate the original Latin - which was probably not Pure Latin but a vulgate language in England during the third millennium.

Either way, this passage looks like the kind of "translation" one gets from Google Translate: utterly senseless.

The works of Saint A. are well-known and used even today. I think you need to find this passage in a correctly translated source.

Don't worry about trying to find some kind of meaning in this passage you quoted - it's impossible.

If, however, you are genuinely interested in Augustine's ideas on pride and humility, a very clear - though rather long, explanation.

https://www.academia.edu/1704480/Augustine_of_Hippo_on_Pride_and_Humility_Damnation_and_Redemption

Saint A. is well-known for these ideas and any discussion on him will mention them.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Sunday, July 5, 2020 8:51:33 PM

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This quote seems to be from "Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers First Series, St. Augustine: Gospel of John: Soliloquies" - edited by Philip Schaff in the mid-1800s.

I've looked through a few of the books online and they all seem to use the same translation (which must be earlier than the nineteenth century). Schaff uses that earlier translation in his book.

An earlier line is "Before God, we are just dust and ashes" - so that first sentence is really "Why are we so proud?"

I understand what he's saying - as I'm sure Epiphileon and Romany do - but only from earlier studies, not from this paragraph. I'm afraid the meanings of "the inmost" and "the outmost parts" and all the rest are beyond me.
Epiphileon
Posted: Monday, July 6, 2020 4:42:04 AM

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Drag0nspeaker wrote:
An earlier line is "Before God, we are just dust and ashes" - so that first sentence is really "Why are we so proud?"


Thanks Drag0, that much does make sense now, like you I find the rest indecipherable.
FounDit
Posted: Monday, July 6, 2020 11:23:04 AM

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vipin viswanathan wrote:
“Why is dust and ashes proud?” Why proud! Let the Scripture tell why. “Because in his life he put forth his inmost parts.”
What is “put forth,” but “threw afar off”? This is to go forth away. For to enter within, is to long after the inmost parts; to put forth the inmost parts, is to go forth away. The proud man puts forth the inmost parts, the humble man earnestly desires the inmost parts. If we are cast out by pride, let us return by humility.

The above paragraph is written by St Augustine of 4th Century. I cannot understand his definition of pride and humility.


This is just a guess on my part, but is what it says to me as I read it and think about it.

We are all dust and ashes, yet the proud, vain man spreads his pride and vanity before him everywhere he goes. This, to me, is the "put forth" part. He looks inward, feels a sense of great pride and displays it.

The humble man looks inward, recognizes himself as he truly is, does not feel vain or proud, and desires to be true to himself.

Therefore, if a man is shunned, or rejected, because of his vanity and pride, he should seek a return to the company of men with a sense of humility.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Friday, July 10, 2020 9:26:59 AM

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That makes sense.

I also had the idea that he was referring to people who are "proud to be humble" - those who put ashes on their heads and sit in front of the temple - but are really just showing off how holy they are.
Like the concept I have of the Pharisees from the New Testament.
vipin viswanathan
Posted: Saturday, July 11, 2020 8:11:27 AM

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Thanks all!!
the plow
Posted: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 11:54:47 AM

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agreed
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