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Hope123
Posted: Friday, March 20, 2020 5:31:31 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
Posts: 9,100
Neurons: 52,063
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
How did the world go from this to this?

Any answers? Serious answers. What happened?




taurine
Posted: Friday, March 20, 2020 6:51:20 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/20/2016
Posts: 2,221
Neurons: 147,519
Location: South Dublin, Ireland
Climate change?
Romany
Posted: Friday, March 20, 2020 7:56:38 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/2009
Posts: 16,779
Neurons: 53,440
Location: Brighton, England, United Kingdom


Dancing Ah thanks so much for that, Hope! That gave me the first genuine burst of laughter I've had all day!

Bloody hell! How indeed!?Dancing
Ashwin Joshi
Posted: Saturday, March 21, 2020 12:35:05 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 8/3/2016
Posts: 1,607
Neurons: 85,286
Location: Jandiāla Guru, Punjab, India
A serious introspection and result oriented thought is the need of the hour.
Y111
Posted: Saturday, March 21, 2020 1:38:51 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/25/2017
Posts: 367
Neurons: 1,824
Location: Kurgan, Kurgan, Russia
What is wrong with riding a horse?
vipin kumar 25
Posted: Saturday, March 21, 2020 4:16:29 AM

Rank: Newbie

Joined: 3/21/2020
Posts: 3
Neurons: 50
Location: Newby, Texas, United States
May be some new adventures Dancing Drool Drool Drool Drool Drool
FounDit
Posted: Saturday, March 21, 2020 10:48:14 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/19/2011
Posts: 13,102
Neurons: 63,723
Hope123 wrote:
How did the world go from this to this?

Any answers? Serious answers. What happened?


By making foolish assumptions such as the ones you make with these photos, leading not to good questions, but to foolish questions. But that's what fools do. Carry on.
Ashwin Joshi
Posted: Saturday, March 21, 2020 10:56:18 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 8/3/2016
Posts: 1,607
Neurons: 85,286
Location: Jandiāla Guru, Punjab, India
Hope123 wrote;

How did the world go from this to this?

Any answers? Serious answers. What happened?

Hope123's doubts are not baseless. The world leaders in the second photo are no match to those in the first photo.

What will happen during the next half-century?

Who has deteriorated, electors, the leaders or the system?
Think Think Think
Romany
Posted: Saturday, March 21, 2020 12:02:27 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/2009
Posts: 16,779
Neurons: 53,440
Location: Brighton, England, United Kingdom

Jesus H, Foundit!

The whole world is in the grip of a pandemic, people are dying - it could be anyone of us next...and you're STILL being rude and abusive to people who don't think the same way you do?? What the hell is wrong with you?

Hope is far from being a fool - as every person on this forum is well aware. She's a very elderly woman - a real person - with health problems up the wazoo which makes her extremely vulnerable as is her husband. And she gave us a picture - not pointing fingers, not political, not blame-casting or abusive - just something amusing and, yes, a bloody good...and neutral talking point: life has changed in the years since that picture was taken - from another time when the whole world was "in it" together.It was a GREAT topic...a chance for each person who was so disposed, to talk about the changes in their own lifetimes.

But we are all 'fools' - because YOU don't like it? That's just not on.

We're mostly all in quarantine or lock-down and we're all going through the same things; and no-one is immune - and it's time for you & your two musketeers to pull your bloody heads in! In this instance that means that if you genuinely are incapable of empathy for people who don't share your views, then remember the way your parents, I assume, raised you: be kind. Mind your manners. And if you don't have something polite to say, then don't say anything.

So who am I to say this? I, like you, am just one of the millions of people all over the world who is facing the very real idea that I, or someone I know or am related to, is going to die. Members of this forum do not have immunity.

No-one gives a flying fuck about who voted what, or what god one believes in, or doesn't. Nor what one's views on "profanity" or "feminists" are. We're all just sitting here, at our computers, trying to immerse ourselves in things other than the present we are all sharing.Being told we are thus all fools to find amusement/reminiscences/reflection/funny stories about how times have changed (like: remember that sharp loo paper that was shiny on one side and made itself into lethal spikes the instant it was in any way used?) is one of those things that one might THINK but the necessity of it being SAID no longer applies.

I may be the only person to have the...arrogance? guts? rudeness? brutality? to say this, but I could, hand-on-heart swear I'm not the only person who thinks it.


Ashwin Joshi
Posted: Saturday, March 21, 2020 12:24:57 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 8/3/2016
Posts: 1,607
Neurons: 85,286
Location: Jandiāla Guru, Punjab, India
Romany writes;
Jesus H, Foundit!

The whole world is in the grip of a pandemic, people are dying - it could be any one of us next...and you're STILL being rude and abusive to people who don't think the same way you do?? What the hell is wrong with you?

Hope is far from being a fool - as every person on this forum is well aware. She's a very elderly woman - a real person - with health problems up the wazoo which makes her extremely vulnerable as is her husband. And she gave us a picture - not pointing fingers, not political, not blame-casting or abusive - just something amusing and, yes, a bloody good...and neutral talking point: life has changed in the years since that picture was taken - from another time when the whole world was "in it" together. It was a GREAT topic...a chance for each person who was so disposed, to talk about the changes in their own lifetimes.

But we are all 'fools' - because YOU don't like it? That's just not on.

We're mostly all in quarantine or lock-down and we're all going through the same things, and no-one is immune - and it's time for you & your two musketeers to pull your bloody heads in! In this instance, that means that if you genuinely are incapable of empathy for people who don't share your views, then remember the way your parents, I assume, raised you: be kind. Mind your manners. And if you don't have something polite to say, then don't say anything.

So who am I to say this? I, like you, am just one of the millions of people all over the world who is facing the very real idea that I, or someone I know or am related to, is going to die. Members of this forum do not have immunity.

No-one gives a flying fuck about who voted what, or what god one believes in, or doesn't. Nor what one's views on "profanity" or "feminists" are. We're all just sitting here, at our computers, trying to immerse ourselves in things other than the present we are all sharing. Being told we are thus all fools to find amusement/reminiscences/reflection/funny stories about how times have changed (like: remember that sharp loo paper that was shiny on one side and made itself into lethal spikes the instant it was in any way used?) is one of those things that one might THINK but the necessity of it being SAID no longer applies.

I may be the only person to have the...arrogance? guts? rudeness? brutality? to say this, but I could, hand-on-heart swear I'm not the only person who thinks it.


Your response has no relevance to the poser. Don't wish the TFD members die each day...corona may not be as deadly even. Only cowards die repeatedly. Sorry Romany, we disapprove of your version...at least me. Pessimistic views have no place in these days. Danger and panic are two different situations. While danger can be averted, panic can cause depression, economic recession, hoarding of essential commodities and dreadfulness. Don't be panicky. Have faith in Almighty and in your medics.
Hope123
Posted: Saturday, March 21, 2020 3:36:49 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
Posts: 9,100
Neurons: 52,063
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
FD, you shouldn’t use the word “fool” for others. It makes you look like a hypocrite.

And of course your opinion asserted with no facts will be tabulated and duly ignored. Photos were all well known originals and each says a thousand words.

Romany, thanks, for the support. We are doing well here - except for trying to avoid the residents across the hall who went on a cruise last week after warnings were out while she (he is 90 /girlfriend does not live here) still had pneumonia, are now home, and the pneumonia is worse again! Hard to believe they did that. But it was paid for. Brick wall Who knows what she has (test is negative for now but incubation of what else she might have caught is 14 days) and he has some kind of an upper respiratory disease. Other snowbirds are coming home to our condo bldg from Florida and are not completely quarantining themselves after frolicking on a beach with thousands during spring break while the FL governor refused to close the beaches. Always money!

Ashwin Joshi, yes, we should be positive about the future facing us, and yes some people are scared, but you have not really understood Romany's main theme. Plus I'm pretty sure faith in the Almighty and all the prayers in the world are not going to change a thing, as what will happen will happen once the virus gets into one's body. Your body will fight it or it won't. Or you will randomly get the more virile strain or the gentler one. All we can do is take precautions and self isolate as much as possible. Relying on God instead of yourself and your own actions is not going to flatten the curve.

I talked to my son in healthcare this morning - he says the experts say the virus is coming for sure and all we can do is “flatten the curve” by staying home so the healthcare system is not over whelmed. His team has cancelled all surgery and are making plans to get the chronic long term cases who do not belong in a hospital to begin with into hotels etc to free up beds.

Back to topic -

Those photos somebody put together made a good representation of how things in politics everywhere seem to have deteriorated over the years. The party not in power is no longer the “loyal opposition” (as they used to be called in Canada) and they now work for party, not country. And many of the men and women no longer act with consideration and decorum as statesmen and stateswomen, but bicker and criticize even in the middle of the latest most recent world crisis, playing politics and adding to the fear.


https://youtu.be/hIGzb_FI0AA

“Where Have all the Statesmen Gone?”

The YouTube video above is a parody in song that seems to say it is money and greed that has caused the demise of statesmen(women). It seems that having millions or billions of dollars is never enough. Money cannot fill the void inside.

And many more people in general have a “me, me” selfish attitude because there are too many people and not enough resources.

Then too customs everywhere have been relaxed. Twitter and Facebook have made a bad situation worse. Politicians use language there they would not use in Parliament while taking their bad attitudes back to Parliament.

So 1) too much money in politics 2) lack of resources and increase in population and thus fear of others taking what is considered to be theirs causing racism 3)relaxation of manners. That's all I can come up with. If Drago sees this, he might have some fresh good idea to add as he usually does.
Hope123
Posted: Saturday, March 21, 2020 4:14:15 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
Posts: 9,100
Neurons: 52,063
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
So maybe I should reconsider my statements and not include all politicians in the criticism. My husband just played the beginning of this video of a press conference by our Prime Minister Justin Trudeau. He learned well at his father's knee - literally - being introduced to Queen Elizabeth as a child- when his father was PM. And his mother was a flower child with her ideas of equality for all.

He has had a lot on his plate this year already but is handling this crisis (and Trump/border closing) with compassion, equanimity, and aplomb. He has been answering the press nearly every day this week. His gov is trying to make sure every Canadian is cared for health wise and financially.

Too bad people are not listening - they go get groceries or visit family instead of quarantining themselves as they were told to do after Canada helped them get home.

Video is not playing.I will go see if I can find one that does. Nope. Can't find one of just him - too much anchor talk.

But here's what I did see - what another recent statesman said, “ Here are a few stories that have less to do with the very real medical or economic aspects of this crisis, and more with how we take care of each other as a human family during all crises:” And he lists stories. Barack Obama.

FounDit
Posted: Saturday, March 21, 2020 6:11:46 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/19/2011
Posts: 13,102
Neurons: 63,723
Ashwin Joshi wrote:
Hope123 wrote;

How did the world go from this to this?

Any answers? Serious answers. What happened?

Hope123's doubts are not baseless. The world leaders in the second photo are no match to those in the first photo.

What will happen during the next half-century?

Who has deteriorated, electors, the leaders or the system?
Think Think Think

Who can say if there is a deterioration? The world leaders pictured lived under completely different circumstances, with completely different assets at their disposal. That doesn't include all that was going on in the world at that time, or this time.

People don't deteriorate. They are always the same. Always have been, and likely always will be. We deal with our circumstances as we find them with the tools and abilities we have at the moment. Sometimes we do well, and sometimes we fail. But that isn't a reflection on the quality of the people. That remains the same.
FounDit
Posted: Saturday, March 21, 2020 6:16:17 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/19/2011
Posts: 13,102
Neurons: 63,723
Hope and Romany,

Well, Hope did ask for serious thoughts, and I am serious about what I said. Hope posted pictures of world leaders from the past and put them alongside present world leaders depicting them in the worst possible light. It was obvious to any intelligent person that this was mockery and insult for today’s leaders. And you claim there is nothing political about it? Sure; the voice of another foolish person who can’t see the truth when it is right in front of her.

We are all facing a time of serious threat from disease and death. And you think mockery and insults of our leaders is something wise, considered, and thoughtful? No. It is childish and foolish in the extreme. There is nothing mature about it. The hubris demonstrated is proof enough of the foolishness and immaturity that abounds in the posts by you all: Hope, Oscar, Romany, et al. And this from people who claim to have such compassion and empathy. R-i-ig-h-t. Grow up.

Hope123
Posted: Saturday, March 21, 2020 8:49:57 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
Posts: 9,100
Neurons: 52,063
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
FounDit wrote:
Hope and Romany,

Well, Hope did ask for serious thoughts, and I am serious about what I said. Hope posted pictures of world leaders from the past and put them alongside present world leaders depicting them in the worst possible light. It was obvious to any intelligent person that this was mockery and insult for today’s leaders. And you claim there is nothing political about it? Sure; the voice of another foolish person who can’t see the truth when it is right in front of her.

We are all facing a time of serious threat from disease and death. And you think mockery and insults of our leaders is something wise, considered, and thoughtful? No. It is childish and foolish in the extreme. There is nothing mature about it. The hubris demonstrated is proof enough of the foolishness and immaturity that abounds in the posts by you all: Hope, Oscar, Romany, et al. And this from people who claim to have such compassion and empathy. R-i-ig-h-t. Grow up.



Give me a break!

It IS political - I put it in the Politics section fgs. And I gave serious consideration as to why things have definitely changed while you manage to deny deny deny.

If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. If you can't stand the truth, that is your problem.

If you want to discuss the health crisis let's do it and still be on topic. These three terrible leaders are making the coronavirus crisis worse instead of better. And if I want to mock them, I shall.

As the coronavirus spreads, Putin plays games and will continue to play games with the global economy by waging an oil war with Saudi Arabia, and driving prices down. His target is the US and Canada goes along for the oil ride. As does the rest of the world.

Boris Johnson suggested at first the UK just let the virus take its toll so there would be herd immunity. Never mind those who die. They would just be collateral damage.

Why did Trump deniy there was a problem for thirty+ days? Something to do with the markets perhaps? All he thinks of is money.

And then he declares a couple of days ago he knew it was a pandemic in January but did NOTHING but give platitudes and try to take down medicare and healthcare .I see the US is planning on spending more on nukes while theatres are desperately offering to sew gowns for doctors and nurses as there is no preparation or supplies for this health crisis.

You wouldn't watch it anyhow, so I can't be bothered to get the video of Trump trashing a reporter who asked a simple question of what could he as leader tell people who feel scared. I did not verify it, but apparently that reporter had lost his friend the day before to the virus. The question was an easy one - Trump could have used it to try to calm the people. Instead he did the opposite. I had seen that the stock markets were up a bit earlier in the day and as he spoke, you could watch as the markets went into free fall even further than before. He has no empathy or even intelligence. Telling him to grow up instead of defending him would be a good place for you to start.

At least we trash leaders - not fellow posters. There is hardly a political post of yours that does not say something personal about fellow posters because you have nothing with which to defend the indefensible Trump.


Ashwin Joshi
Posted: Sunday, March 22, 2020 3:21:13 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 8/3/2016
Posts: 1,607
Neurons: 85,286
Location: Jandiāla Guru, Punjab, India
Oscar D. Grouch in another thread “They knew. They did nothing writes;

Crimson Contagion. The US government did a simulation study last year of their preparedness for a flu pandemic and found that the county's medical system was woefully unprepared.

What Last Year's Government Simulation Predicted About Today's Pandemic
https://www.npr.org/2020/03/20/819186528/what-last-years-government-simulation-predicted-about-todays-pandemic

What did they do? Nothing. Trump went and played golf nearly every weekend at the US taxpayer's expense. The report was left at "draft" status and never finalized in an apparent attempt to bury it.

When questioned about the report, the Trump administration's response is ludicrous.
Quote:
"CHANG: Right. If I could just cut in. Now, you asked the White House about this currently. What did the White House say it did once it discovered all these problems that were revealed in the simulation - in the last 30 seconds we have left?

SANGER: Sure. They didn't say whether or not they had been briefed on it, but they did note that the - that there was a flu in that case and a virus in this case. And they said, well, that's very different - may be that they're different diseases, but they had similar - very similar problems."


Did you get that? The flu is "very different" from a virus!

The flu IS caused by a virus!


Over to you FounDit.


FounDit
Posted: Sunday, March 22, 2020 11:35:30 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/19/2011
Posts: 13,102
Neurons: 63,723
Hope123 wrote:
FounDit wrote:
Hope and Romany,

Well, Hope did ask for serious thoughts, and I am serious about what I said. Hope posted pictures of world leaders from the past and put them alongside present world leaders depicting them in the worst possible light. It was obvious to any intelligent person that this was mockery and insult for today’s leaders. And you claim there is nothing political about it? Sure; the voice of another foolish person who can’t see the truth when it is right in front of her.

We are all facing a time of serious threat from disease and death. And you think mockery and insults of our leaders is something wise, considered, and thoughtful? No. It is childish and foolish in the extreme. There is nothing mature about it. The hubris demonstrated is proof enough of the foolishness and immaturity that abounds in the posts by you all: Hope, Oscar, Romany, et al. And this from people who claim to have such compassion and empathy. R-i-ig-h-t. Grow up.



Give me a break!

It IS political - I put it in the Politics section fgs. And I gave serious consideration as to why things have definitely changed while you manage to deny deny deny.
It was Romany who said it was, and I quote, "not political". That's why I included her in my post.

If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. If you can't stand the truth, that is your problem.
What heat? There's no heat. And your provided no "truth", only opinion, and a childishly biased one at that (my opinion of your opinion).

If you want to discuss the health crisis let's do it and still be on topic. These three terrible leaders are making the coronavirus crisis worse instead of better. And if I want to mock them, I shall.
And what would you have done? What can you do? Nothing, except sit back and criticize like a whiny unhappy child. "Somebody fix my world!"

As the coronavirus spreads, Putin plays games and will continue to play games with the global economy by waging an oil war with Saudi Arabia, and driving prices down. His target is the US and Canada goes along for the oil ride. As does the rest of the world.
And Stalin played Churchill and Roosevelt for fools. How did that work out for the East Germans? Are you so naive that you believe all world leaders are nice folks who won't take advantage? That's a rhetorical question because what you just said demonstrates it.

Boris Johnson suggested at first the UK just let the virus take its toll so there would be herd immunity. Never mind those who die. They would just be collateral damage.
"suggested at first" indicates he might not have been aware of its severity. But whatever you do, don't give anyone an inch because YOU KNOW what should have been done before anyone else, eh?

Why did Trump deniy there was a problem for thirty+ days? Something to do with the markets perhaps? All he thinks of is money.
Who says he denied it as a problem for thirty days? You? How do you know this? And Trump was one of the first to institute a restriction on travel, which caused an uproar. After all, you and your fellow travelers don't want any kind of borders.

And then he declares a couple of days ago he knew it was a pandemic in January but did NOTHING but give platitudes and try to take down medicare and healthcare .I see the US is planning on spending more on nukes while theatres are desperately offering to sew gowns for doctors and nurses as there is no preparation or supplies for this health crisis.
Wrong on all fronts as businesses that aren't even in the business of making medical supplies have converted over to that goal.

You wouldn't watch it anyhow, so I can't be bothered to get the video of Trump trashing a reporter who asked a simple question of what could he as leader tell people who feel scared. I did not verify it, but apparently that reporter had lost his friend the day before to the virus. The question was an easy one - Trump could have used it to try to calm the people. Instead he did the opposite. I had seen that the stock markets were up a bit earlier in the day and as he spoke, you could watch as the markets went into free fall even further than before. He has no empathy or even intelligence. Telling him to grow up instead of defending him would be a good place for you to start.
So now he's responsible for the stock market too? Right. Can you do nothing but complain and whine? Are you EVER happy - about anything?

At least we trash leaders - not fellow posters. There is hardly a political post of yours that does not say something personal about fellow posters because you have nothing with which to defend the indefensible Trump.
It is true that all you seem able to do is trash leaders. Like a whiny, unhappy child, stamping her feet and demanding that Mummy and Daddy make her world comfy. Poor baby. When all you can do is criticize those who DO try, then you have nothing of value to offer anyone.

FounDit
Posted: Sunday, March 22, 2020 11:48:07 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/19/2011
Posts: 13,102
Neurons: 63,723
Ashwin Joshi wrote:
Oscar D. Grouch in another thread “They knew. They did nothing writes;

Crimson Contagion. The US government did a simulation study last year of their preparedness for a flu pandemic and found that the county's medical system was woefully unprepared.
So? The government is always running scenarios for all kinds of problems. Since no one has any idea of what or how something may develop, there is no way to anticipate what will be needed. Nor does it make sense to put the country into the position of defending for each possibility since no one an know which one will happen. That would be silly and useless, squandering resources for daily living. You can't live in a perpetual state of fear for "what if --" and have a functioning government, or society.

What Last Year's Government Simulation Predicted About Today's Pandemic
https://www.npr.org/2020/03/20/819186528/what-last-years-government-simulation-predicted-about-todays-pandemic

What did they do? Nothing. Trump went and played golf nearly every weekend at the US taxpayer's expense. The report was left at "draft" status and never finalized in an apparent attempt to bury it.
See the above paragraph. And what evidence is there is there that there was "an apparent attempt to bury it"? Sounds like just one person's opinion.

When questioned about the report, the Trump administration's response is ludicrous.
Quote:
"CHANG: Right. If I could just cut in. Now, you asked the White House about this currently. What did the White House say it did once it discovered all these problems that were revealed in the simulation - in the last 30 seconds we have left?

SANGER: Sure. They didn't say whether or not they had been briefed on it, but they did note that the - that there was a flu in that case and a virus in this case. And they said, well, that's very different - may be that they're different diseases, but they had similar - very similar problems."


Did you get that? The flu is "very different" from a virus!

The flu IS caused by a virus!


Over to you FounDit.
First, we have a conversation between an NPR person and a New York Times reporter, both of whom have no love for Trump.

Secondly, the reporter doesn't say who he was talking to, or even if that person was someone who knows anything. So it's a second hand report of a nobody, given by a biased reporter for a biased newspaper. I put no stock in it. But even if it is true, so what? One anonymous person said something wrong? Big deal. He or she does not speak for the government, and neither of these two in the conversation speak for the entire country. They're just talking heads, and usually empty of anything intelligent when all they do is accuse and blame.



Hope123
Posted: Sunday, March 22, 2020 6:19:36 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
Posts: 9,100
Neurons: 52,063
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
FD, Once again I shall ignore all your personal attacks because you have nothing to say in defence. They don't bother me because I have not respected your opinion for several years now. And I cannot respect your president or believe one word he says after all the lies he tells continuously. You can't shame me into doing otherwise, no matter how hard you try.

If stamping my feet would make ordinary citizens of ALL countries listen to health authorities and stay home, I would do it. Instead some are still romping around on beaches or eating at restaurants. I don't need to demand anything of my PM - he is handling it well during self isolation while looking after three children without any help from staff while his wife recovers from this virus. As for Trump, nobody demands anything of him because he doesn't listen, even to the experts, on ANY matter.

What would I have done or said? What Biden said while trying to calm scared people who are sick and losing loved ones. Definitely not attack a reporter as Trump did. See for yourself the comparison.

https://youtu.be/49YmR8GFnnU


Hope wrote: Why did Trump deniy there was a problem for thirty+ days? Something to do with the markets perhaps? All he thinks of is money.
FounDit wrote: Who says he denied it as a problem for thirty days? You? How do you know this?

You need to keep up, FounDit. I know this because there are calendar videos compiling what Trump said on what date. He finally admitted he knew it was a pandemic - “before they even called it one” - yet had done nothing till then.

https://youtu.be/ch7_t2Ri2Zg

Plus that video is minus his cruise ship quote: Donald John Trump says: “Keep ’Em On the Ship. I Don’t Want Our Coronavirus Numbers To Go Up. Several sources make an accusation and say Trump Blocked Coronavirus Testing in January to Aid His Reelection Chances By Keeping US Infection Figures Low and/or so as not to affect the stock market.

BTW two senators have been accused, only accused not proven yet, of insider trading. There are no reports on the Trump family trades during that period - I read that Trump does not report as the senators did. The Supreme Court is ruling on the release of his tax records so maybe he will have to if he doesn’t now.


FounDit continues writing: After all, you and your fellow travelers don't want any kind of borders.

Baloney.
Hope123
Posted: Sunday, March 22, 2020 6:19:58 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
Posts: 9,100
Neurons: 52,063
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
FounDit wrote: And Trump was one of the first to institute a restriction on travel, which caused an uproar.

The federal government has not announced significant nationwide measures to contain the spread of the virus, beyond restricting travelers from certain countries from entering the U.S. Restrictions or containment measures have mostly come from state and local authorities.

It seems only China can build two hospitals in two weeks, only China can mobilize so many people to devote themselves to the anti-epidemic agenda, only China can lock down a city with millions of people at lightning speed.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/31/pictures-china-builds-two-hospitals-in-days-to-combat-coronavirus.html

And yes, Trump is to blame for his words affecting the stock market. A leader's words count. As he spoke the news videos included a window in actual time showing the market figures switch directions dramatically.

lol He takes credit when the stocks go up...

And he thinks he knows best about what and when drugs should be prescribed.

Dr. Edsel Salvana responded after Trump tweeted about the advisability of taking these two drugs. (Two Nigerians have been poisoned by taking it.)

Dr. EdselSalvana Mar 21
Please don't take hydroxychloroquine (Plaquenil) plus Azithromycin for COVID19 UNLESS your doctor prescribes it. Both drugs affect the QT interval of your heart and can lead to arrhythmias and sudden death, especially if you are taking other meds or have a heart condition.
Hope123
Posted: Sunday, March 22, 2020 6:44:28 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
Posts: 9,100
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Edited and deleted part of this post because of an update : Senate did approve an aid bill and it has gone to Trump.

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/488264-senate-passes-houses-coronavirus-bill-sending-it-to-trump

Eight Republicans voted against it.


FounDit
Posted: Monday, March 23, 2020 10:49:28 AM

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We have two groups of people. We have strong-minded people who take on the problems and try to do something to make the situation better and save lives, and those who support them.

And we have the weak-minded, and childish, who are incapable of anything other than mockery, ridicule and criticism of those who are trying.

Each person can choose the group they want to belong to.
Kirill Vorobyov
Posted: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 4:02:31 AM

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Romany wrote:

Jesus H, Foundit!

The whole world is in the grip of a pandemic, people are dying -


That's a trifle. I wonder what's going to happen to the world economy as more and more people worldwide are sent home instead of doing their job.

And once economy shrinks, who knows how many deaths that may lead to. From all sorts of reasons resulting from an economic collapse. We had this in 1990s. People die by millions in such circumstances, but media will not zoom in all those deaths with the same vigour, I am afraid.
Hope123
Posted: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 11:02:45 AM

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Kirill,

It seems to me there are two choices:

The choice is between:

- a very hurtful major recession caused by social distancing, managed by stimulus and government spending

or

- an economic collapse caused by the breakdown of our health system due to millions of deaths, tens of millions of hospitalizations, that cannot be managed by stimulus

Maybe this crisis is a test run for when climate change really hits. Maybe all these new viruses emerging is because of temperature change and also because of human activity.

How humans handle this balance between saving lives now and saving the economy to save lives in the future will decide what happens. I’m hoping all the stimulus packages Canada's gov is issuing, money for vaccine/treatment research, plus the message to stay home will put Canada on the right track.

Trying to go back to business as usual too soon will be a recipe for disaster. I am quite impressed by how China, once it realized the power of the virus, got its act together, lockdowned an area and contained it, washes whole cities twice a day, and built hospitals over night. In this case democracies are taking too long while groups make decisions trying to get agreements.

What's happening in your world? Are you allowed to say or do you have to be careful?
Kirill Vorobyov
Posted: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 4:24:09 AM

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Location: Moscow, Moscow, Russia
Hope123 wrote:


What's happening in your world? Are you allowed to say or do you have to be careful?


Think
I don't think anybody cares... Boo hoo!
FounDit
Posted: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 11:00:00 AM

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Kirill Vorobyov wrote:
Hope123 wrote:


What's happening in your world? Are you allowed to say or do you have to be careful?


Think
I don't think anybody cares... Boo hoo!


I don't think that's true. I think most people want to know how others are experiencing something. Much like the old adage, "A sorrow shared is a sorrow halved, and a joy shared is a joy doubled".

Knowing others are experiencing the same trouble somehow makes it a bit easier to deal with it yourself, sometimes by learning new ways of doing so. In this we really are all together, even though so many seemingly want to divide us through fear, anger, and hate.
Hope123
Posted: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 11:38:34 AM

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Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
Kirill Vorobyov wrote:
Hope123 wrote:


What's happening in your world? Are you allowed to say or do you have to be careful?


Think
I don't think anybody cares... Boo hoo!


Hi Kirill.

I would not have asked if I didn't care. Yes, we would like to know more about what is happening in your country besides what's on the maps of the world. We are all humans and are all in this together.

I was really glad LRai, who is in China, on another thread, has updated us with a picture of what is really happening there. And his info tells us that we can turn this around if we all work together with a global effort. But it took them time.

Humans are keeping their spirits up and doing their best to remain occupied during lockdowns. We are lucky to have technology to keep us occupied and to place orders for delivery. People around he world are going on their balconies at a certain time and rattling pots and pans, making noise to thank the selfless people in essential services who are risking their lives for the rest of us.

My real estate agent has even offered to get groceries for us - way beyond the call of duty.

https://forum.thefreedictionary.com/postst198620_What-is-your-country-doing-to--flatten-the-curve--of-the-Covid-19-virus-.aspx

https://forum.thefreedictionary.com/postst198662_All-Of-This-Panic-Could-Have-Been-Prevented.aspx?find=unread



Kirill Vorobyov
Posted: Thursday, March 26, 2020 6:20:51 AM

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Okay, more seriously then - in Russia we seem to be somewhat "behind the curve" in terms of the number of confirmed cases, but they are exploding exponentially anyway, since this is obviously a very contagious virus. So as is the case with the flu and with other types of coronaviruses and respiratory infections, I am afraid that the grim reality is that most of us will have it sooner or later. All we can do is to try to "flatten the curve", hoping the summer season in the northern hemisphere helps to stem it singificantly till next Autumn, or till such a time that more effective medicines become available.

So in Russia we are faced with the same choice that I guess most if not all nations now face: introduce draconian measures that kill the economy in an attempt to postpone what is probably inevitable anyway, or damn it all - let's just have it and let the economy continue to work.

The optimum is probably somewhere in between. My personal instinct tells me that we better concentrate protection measures on specific risk groups and let others continue more or less as normal and, as the case may be, have the desease as people have seasonal flu. Since the economic toll seems to be enormous already. I am personally prepared to take the risk - I'd rather get sick but retain my job and income and continue more or less normal life, than not get sick but be left without income with millions of other despaired people around me. And added to that is that even if we all stop working, this does not guartantee we can completely suppress the virus. So we still may all have it at some point, only without a working economy around. And what if next month another virus breaks out from some hell's depot? Who knows how many more they may have? Anxious I mean, this is something to be considered really seriously.
Romany
Posted: Thursday, March 26, 2020 9:20:41 AM
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Hi Kirill

As I've mentioned before, my son teaches ONLY Russian students and, as it's always been online, nothing has changed. Only now he gets daily up-dates from them on what's happening in their world. In fact, with some, he has a hard time getting lessons on track as all they want to do is discuss this pandemic. They have all spoken about a weeks' paid "holiday" having been announced?

Having worked with his students for so long they often use "Teacher" as a kind of "listener" and so the two of us have become very caught up in their own personal lives and the personal stories of how current events are affecting them. None of them is ill, of course, but it's the effects on them and their families - and their work - which have impacted many of their lives. I expect all over the world, on-line teachers are many people's window to the world...and receivers of their hopes and fears at this time.

THAT, in itself, strikes me as one of the invisible results of what's going on currently?
Kirill Vorobyov
Posted: Thursday, March 26, 2020 9:53:53 AM

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Hello, Romany!

Actually it's

Romany wrote:
one paid week-off having been announced?



i.e. next week is declared a non-working week for everybody except specific professions (healthcare workers, etc). And employers must pay employees for that week. Then of course the government has to offer an economic rescue package / compensatory measures for businesses, and this all comes at a price.

This simply mimics some of the measures that have already been taken in other countries that are "ahead" of us in terms of the curve. I keep wondering how effective all this is, is it worth it, and where does it stop? An epidemic is always a tough time, but life must continue in tough times as in good times. Shutting down the economy won't help anything.
Romany
Posted: Thursday, March 26, 2020 10:27:26 AM
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Hmm. Well yes, in an epidemic. But a pandemic? I think that's a completely different proposition. I mean, it's not as if only the economy of one country is going to suffer and thus be unable to compete in the global economy.

The global economy itself is going to/is taking a hit. We're all on a pretty level playing ground as to the effects of this. But a country which loses an unprecedented number of it's workforce - not to mention its scientists, medical personnel, economists, politicians, - is going to find itself decidedly hampered in recovery measures taken when its all over, and find themselves at a severe disadvantage.

Not one of us has the power to change what's happening anyway - nature still has the upper hand on survival. So I, personally, see no point in even worrying about it right now. I think it's it's the A.A. Association which has as part of its motto "Give me the courage to accept the things I cannot change..."

What will be, will be.

Hope123
Posted: Thursday, March 26, 2020 11:37:36 AM

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Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
Kirill Vorobyov wrote:
Hello, Romany!

Actually it's

Romany wrote:
one paid week-off having been announced?



i.e. next week is declared a non-working week for everybody except specific professions (healthcare workers, etc). And employers must pay employees for that week. Then of course the government has to offer an economic rescue package / compensatory measures for businesses, and this all comes at a price.

This simply mimics some of the measures that have already been taken in other countries that are "ahead" of us in terms of the curve. I keep wondering how effective all this is, is it worth it, and where does it stop? An epidemic is always a tough time, but life must continue in tough times as in good times. Shutting down the economy won't help anything.


We are in a war on two fronts: public health & economic. It is hard to fight/win both at once. The best strategy is to win the former and do a holding action on the latter with fiscal and monetary tools that help citizens and businesses weather the storm, and then transition to an economic recovery.

That is what Canada is trying to do with announcements of billions of dollars by all governments to help individuals and businesses as well as healthcare - I have not kept up on the strategies of other countries.
Romany
Posted: Friday, March 27, 2020 6:56:52 AM
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Location: Brighton, England, United Kingdom

Well one thing that none of the strategies of other countries includes is denying medicine and treatment to people depending on their socio-economic footing! Outright abandoning people because they are in unfortunate situations is not a "strategy" any other country has chosen. Nor is making people HOMELESS by insisting they must keep on paying landlords when they have already lost any income they had with which to pay it!
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