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FounDit
Posted: Tuesday, March 3, 2020 3:40:58 PM

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Wilmar (USA) 1M
Posted: Tuesday, March 3, 2020 4:15:30 PM

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The workings of the brain are absolutely fascinating!
Oh, to be young again -- I would certainly choose differently. Maybe in my next life...
FounDit
Posted: Tuesday, March 3, 2020 9:36:21 PM

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Wilmar (USA) 1M wrote:
The workings of the brain are absolutely fascinating!
Oh, to be young again -- I would certainly choose differently. Maybe in my next life...


I've thought about this several times, and each time I start off thinking that would be a good thing, then change my mind and think, "I'm not sure I'd want to go through all of that again."

But then the idea of being able to do it with everything I know now seems appealing, until I realize that I'd be so out of step with everyone else, I'd never fit in with anyone, and wouldn't want to. Can you image a 10 or 12 year old with the mind of a 70 something?...weird.

So I guess it's best we don't get to do that.
Y111
Posted: Wednesday, March 4, 2020 4:11:18 AM
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Well, someone really didn't pay much attention there. :)

Link wrote:
consciousness-studies-show-human-macaque-brains-flicker-every-4-seconds

Article wrote:
Four times every second, explains Princeton Neuroscience Institute Ian Fiebelkorn, Ph.D., to Inverse, the brain stops focusing on the task at hand.
Ashwin Joshi
Posted: Wednesday, March 4, 2020 7:19:25 AM

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Interesting? Very interesting!

Flickers cause distraction. Distractability inturn causes ADHD.

Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) is a disorder that affects behavior. A recent national study reported by the CDC noted that 11% of school-aged children are being diagnosed with ADHD. Three main symptoms define ADHD including inattention, hyperactivity, and impulsivity. The symptoms are severe enough to affect the child's behavior in social situations and at school.

And, in behavior is hidden the future.
Hope123
Posted: Wednesday, March 4, 2020 9:13:35 AM

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So if the “normal” brain is that distracted, ADHD must be that it has trouble getting back on focus each time it gets distracted. But not to fear-

A study published in the journal Child Neuropsychology found that ADHD sample groups displayed greater levels of creativity in performing certain tasks than their peers without a diagnosis of ADHD. Researchers asked participants to draw animals that lived on a plant that was different from Earth and create an idea for a new toy. These findings support the idea that those with ADHD are often creative and innovative.

A diagnosis of ADHD does not have to put a person at a disadvantage in life. Instead, ADHD can and has contributed to the success of many movie stars, athletes, and businesspeople. From Albert Einstein to Michael Jordan to President George W. Bush, there are many people who have reached the pinnacles of their fields with ADHD.


https://www.healthline.com/health/adhd/benefits-of-adhd#3

ADHD has its drawbacks, one being that you have to work four times as hard as those without it to achieve your goals as you learn to control it, but it also has its perks.
FounDit
Posted: Wednesday, March 4, 2020 1:43:16 PM

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Y111 wrote:
Well, someone really didn't pay much attention there. :)

Link wrote:
consciousness-studies-show-human-macaque-brains-flicker-every-4-seconds

Article wrote:
Four times every second, explains Princeton Neuroscience Institute Ian Fiebelkorn, Ph.D., to Inverse, the brain stops focusing on the task at hand.


Apparently so. That scientist, Ian Fiebelkorn, Ph.D., had a flicker and said, "Four times every second" instead of "every 4 seconds".

But this is a completely different mental function than ADHD. The two aren't remotely connected, because one appears to be a function of every brain, and the other isn't.

My step-son and granddaughter both have been diagnosed with ADHD, and medicated for it. But the medication causes such a lethargy both don't like taking it, and don't when they are at home. I've noticed that both can function and concentrate just fine, often for hours at a time if they so choose. Too many kids are diagnosed with ADHD for being energetically normal kids, IMO. Strange that when I was in school, no kids in any of my classes ever had a problem with attention. But those were the days when we had discipline rather than obsequious "caring".
Epiphileon
Posted: Thursday, March 5, 2020 4:23:21 AM

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My first impression after reading this article was I wonder why they have framed this as distractibility rather than situational awareness.
I have other comments but they'll have to wait this is my first attempt at posting from my tablet and using voice recognition rather than the ridiculous tiny keyboard.
Hope123
Posted: Thursday, March 5, 2020 8:05:01 AM

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Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
FounDit wrote: My step-son and granddaughter both have been diagnosed with ADHD, and medicated for it. But the medication causes such a lethargy both don't like taking it, and don't when they are at home. I've noticed that both can function and concentrate just fine, often for hours at a time if they so choose. Too many kids are diagnosed with ADHD for being energetically normal kids, IMO. Strange that when I was in school, no kids in any of my classes ever had a problem with attention. But those were the days when we had discipline rather than obsequious "caring".

I agree that some normal kids are wrongly diagnosed and I don't like drugging anybody let alone kids.

But the good old days aren't always the good old days as you are wrong that discipline stopped kids from having ADHD that just wasn't diagnosed back then. Children such as myself just had to find ways to cope on their own, and I did. As I said, I was one of the ones who had to work 4 times as hard to get the grades others got more easily.

I was 63 when I was finally diagnosed with the kinds of brain waves exactly opposite to what they should have been and to a surprisingly large degree, and things finally made sense as to why I am the way I am. I had treatment that involved resetting brain waves similar to biofeedback or neutrofeedback and it has helped me.

So there is a way to measure brain waves to definitively diagnose and mitigate problems of people with ADHD without drugs, but it is not widely known or utilized because “they” say it needs more studies. So do the studies. There are no side effects to doing it and it is a lot better to try it first than just doling out drugs.
FounDit
Posted: Thursday, March 5, 2020 11:48:34 AM

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Epiphileon wrote:
My first impression after reading this article was I wonder why they have framed this as distractibility rather than situational awareness.
I have other comments but they'll have to wait this is my first attempt at posting from my tablet and using voice recognition rather than the ridiculous tiny keyboard.


My guess would be that the idea of situation awareness would mean one is aware of everything around them, and the point here is that we aren't capable of that, but can only truly focus on one thing at a time.

I use voice sometimes for texts on my phone because I hate trying to type on it. But you have to check it carefully, because is does weird things sometimes, as you have probably discovered.
Romany
Posted: Friday, March 6, 2020 7:26:49 AM
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Epi - "...I why they have framed this as distractibility rather than situational awareness." So do I.

I too am probably sharing some of the same questions as you - especially as this information isn't new and has been used as the basis for study into not just other primates, but many different kinds of life forms?

But then I saw that it wasn't written by a Scientist but by a journalist - and it would seem to me that, as a journalist, certain conclusions have been extrapolated by the writer which would be clearer in the original texts from which the info. was collated?

Anyway, will check back later to see what difference a "big" keyboard makes...and will be interested to see what you have to say about it.




Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Saturday, March 7, 2020 6:19:28 AM

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Yes - it's difficult to say, when it's a reporter's opinion of what a scientific discovery may mean.

Despite this "natural flicker", I'm sure each of us can remember a time (in an emergency or extremely exciting incident) in which we were able to direct FULL attention for a reasonably long period. But that's not 'normal'.
The "long-term survival instinct" for an animal body which was, in its origins, both hunter and prey would be less focused, but very aware: glance left; glance behind; listen for movement; glance up; glance to the right; sniff the air - and while glancing in any direction, still be aware of movement in another direction. The mind can override this, but it is a normal bodily function.

****************
FounDit wrote:
My step-son and granddaughter both have been diagnosed with ADHD, and medicated for it. But the medication causes such a lethargy both don't like taking it, and don't when they are at home. I've noticed that both can function and concentrate just fine, often for hours at a time if they so choose. Too many kids are diagnosed with ADHD for being energetically normal kids, IMO. Strange that when I was in school, no kids in any of my classes ever had a problem with attention.

There ARE people who have real difficulties.
However, it seems like "normal childhood attitudes" and even teacher-failures are being diagnosed as ADHD. A teacher droning on & on, not engaging the kids, will have 100% inattentiveness.
You're going to get a lot of positives when questions used in diagnosis are things like:
Does the child sometimes seem to be not listening?
Do they sometimes not follow orders?
Do they sometimes make mistakes?
Do they daydream?
Do they lose things?
Do they get easily bored?

Over 10% of all American children being diagnosed as mentally abnormal because they exhibit these traits a bit more than others is too much. Then drugging them to "make them more attentive and calm" (lethargic and even in some cases suicidal) is painful to see.
Kids AREN'T calm a lot of the time - they have a lot of energy.
There ARE teachers who can keep most of the pupils' attention most of the time (without being dictatorial)
topazann
Posted: Friday, March 13, 2020 9:43:23 AM
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Unfortunately, the article referenced is a review article quoting other original research articles. I can't access the originals, but it seems likely that the referenced article muffed the data. Perhaps the original article stated that the lack of focus happens four times per second rather than every four seconds
FounDit
Posted: Friday, March 13, 2020 11:55:59 AM

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Joined: 9/19/2011
Posts: 13,725
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topazann wrote:
Unfortunately, the article referenced is a review article quoting other original research articles. I can't access the originals, but it seems likely that the referenced article muffed the data. Perhaps the original article stated that the lack of focus happens four times per second rather than every four seconds


It may be the author, and the scientist, Ian Fiebelkorn, speaking to Inverse, was simply paraphrasing the research.

I did find links to his research, but didn't follow them to completion. Did you see these?

Articles and research
https://pni.princeton.edu/publications

A Flexible Model of Working Memory

The mediodorsal pulvinar coordinates the macaque fronto-parietal network during rhythmic spatial attention.

These may provide what you want.
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