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Supernatural and Divine Options
Hope123
Posted: Friday, January 24, 2020 5:35:43 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
Posts: 9,339
Neurons: 53,387
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
Continuing the thread on Feminism here as the definition of Humanism branched out (against expectations) into Religion. I didn't even take note it was there.

However:

JCB, you just doubled down that you accept that “the church”, defined by TFD as being a congregation of Christians, is the belief that there is a supernatural being in the sky that exists - beyond natural laws - who is divine or a deity.

A majority of people today still believe that there is a god of some kind.

But one source says that anywhere from 8 to 12,000 gods and goddesses have been worshipped from around 7,000 years ago to the present day - and most are not worshipped today. Man has always assumed gods and goddesses were immortal but that has proven not to be the case. Defunct gods are relics of the past.

As for the assertion that “supernatural and divine” means the “church” (as I mentioned above, TFD defines that as the Christian congregation) if you had used the word religion, meaning all such beliefs in a god, your statement would have been more accurate. And there was certainly no critique of either ideology. It just says that some people believe differently than others. So please don't read any more into that than what was actually said.

Differences in opinions are definitely acceptable, no matter which ideology you have. As I've said many times “What ever gets you through the night”.
Epiphileon
Posted: Sunday, January 26, 2020 4:04:19 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/22/2009
Posts: 4,282
Neurons: 166,396
High Hope!
I thought about getting into this thread but realized that I was probably going to immediately lead it off-topic as I'm not exactly sure what you're saying here. Could you clarify please?
Romany
Posted: Sunday, January 26, 2020 9:19:14 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/2009
Posts: 17,423
Neurons: 56,086
Location: Brighton, England, United Kingdom

Epi --

I stated in another discussion that the only "label" I have ever accepted is that of being a "Humanist." - that it was only a couple of posters here on TFD who have labelled Hope, Lotje and I as "Feminists".

Jacob then came into the (Feminist) discussion with some rather strange interpretations of Humanists of having caused untold wars and being anti-Church etc. and having been around for thousands of years!

Hope posted this thread as the appropriate place to discuss Humanism and the Church.
Epiphileon
Posted: Sunday, January 26, 2020 10:50:35 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/22/2009
Posts: 4,282
Neurons: 166,396
Oh I see, thank you. Well I can say from my days as an evangelical Christian that in general humanism is regarded as heretical by evangelicals.

Quote:
Humanism is a progressive philosophy of life that, without theism or other supernatural beliefs, affirms our ability and responsibility to lead ethical lives of personal fulfillment that aspire to the greater good.
American Humanist Association

I was going to say you don't have to go far to see why at this site as this quote is right at the top of the page but, it turns out you don't even have to go that far. Their Logo...



From an evangelical's perspective and belief set, there is no good without their God.
Quote:
Isaiah 64.6
All of us have become like one who is unclean,
and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags;
we all shrivel up like a leaf,
and like the wind our sins sweep us away.

Quote:
Romans 3:10-12
As it is written:
“There is no one righteous, not even one;
there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good, not even one.”


The doctrine is commonly referred to as total depravity and the concept is antithetical to humanism.

Hope123
Posted: Sunday, January 26, 2020 11:03:40 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
Posts: 9,339
Neurons: 53,387
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
Hey, Epi.

You can absolutely take this thread where ever you would like. It is not going anywhere. In fact I'd like to hear where you might be going!

It was started just to carry some religious content over from the Knowledge and Culture thread, as Romany has explained.

Here I was also questioning why more people believe in supernatural beings, beings beyond natural laws, than do not believe. Not obeying natural laws seems illogical and more like superstition to me.

Yet most humans always seem to have believed so even though as history shows, most of them gradually become defunct.

We've had this discussion before but I wondered what JCB's thoughts were.

Adding before hitting “Post” - I see you posted as I wrote this - going to go read your post.
Hope123
Posted: Sunday, January 26, 2020 11:29:23 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
Posts: 9,339
Neurons: 53,387
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
Epi,

The belief that only the religious are the “good” guys is one of the reasons I reject religious beliefs. Just one of the reasons but it is very annoying that they think people cannot be ethical and moral without being indoctrinated in their beliefs.

Not only that, but you have to belong to their particular sect, even within Christianity itself, before your beliefs are considered to be authentic. Not to mention all the other religions of the world who think theirs is the only true path to living.

I don't belong to any ideological groups of any kind but will check out the group of the logo you provided. Might be interesting.

Edited : Here's some of the work the Humanist Society does - seems moral and ethical to me. Whistle

https://americanhumanist.org/what-we-do/programs-and-adjuncts/

Here's just one of their actions: promoting logical and critical thinking seems like a good idea. Wish I had seen something like this years ago - would have saved me a lot of doubt, conflict, and anxiety about religion.

“ FreeThoughtAction works to educate the general public about the personal, social and practical benefits of free and rational thought and action based on logic, reason and the scientific method as opposed to unquestioned acceptance of ancient tradition, religion and superstition. By raising awareness of these benefits, our hope is to encourage the continuing growth, open engagement, and public acceptance of a Freethought community in American society.”

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