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Profile: DavidLearn
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User Name: DavidLearn
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Joined: Monday, January 27, 2014
Last Visit: Monday, June 24, 2019 7:02:36 AM
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  Last 10 Posts
Topic: Are these two questions natural and correct? (17)
Posted: Saturday, June 22, 2019 5:06:24 PM
Drag0nspeaker wrote:
I think that the first one is good. "Awesome" in its modern usage means the same as "amazing" in its modern meaning (the original meanings were a bit different, but in modern English they are almost exact synonyms).
Changing the word is a slightly more difficult "comprehension" question, but it does test understanding very well.

I'm not sure about changing "traditional" to "popular".
At least in Britain, the most popular "take-away" food are kebabs and curries. In restaurants, it is still Asian, Oriental, Italian, etc. - and none of these are traditional English foods!
Maybe in China, traditional food is still the most popular, but I don't know.

Hi Drag0n,
I do appreciate your comments and help.

David.
Topic: Are these two questions natural and correct? (17)
Posted: Saturday, June 22, 2019 6:53:16 AM
Hi teachers,
This is part of an audio file. It is about Beijing.

Lee: Ghost Street has the nicest restaurants. It looks amazing at night with all the paper lanterns and it is the best place to go for traditional Chinese food.

Are these questions natural and correct about the text above?

1. What seems to be awesome after dark? Have I twisted too much the question?
Ghost Street with all the paper lanterns.

2. Where's the best place to eat traditional Chinese food? Can I use "popular" instead of "traditional" in the question?
Ghost Street.


Thanks.
Topic: Could you correct or confirm my deduction? (14a)
Posted: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 5:09:29 PM
DavidLearn wrote:
One last question.
Since Lee said "But I do like the markets." Do you think it's a good idea to ask the students:
What word does Lee use to emphasise that he likes the markets?
He uses "do" (before the verb). ]

FounDit wrote:
You could ask, especially if Lee puts some emphasis on the word "do" to show his pleasure, which I imagine he did.



That's exactly what Lee does, FounDit. He puts emphasis on the word "do". Thanks.

David.
Topic: Could you correct or confirm my deduction? (14a)
Posted: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 6:59:35 AM
That's exactly what Lee said in the audio.
Lee: But I do like the markets. Especially the way that prices aren't fixed and you have to argue with the stall-holder about how much to pay.

Hi Drag0n, FounDit,
Drag0nspeaker wrote:
I just realised (after all these years . . .) that I think in conversations, rather than in written questions and answers.

Written or spoken question: "What do you like about ice-cream?"
Spoken conversational answer "The taste!"
Written answer: "I like its taste" or "I like the taste of ice-cream!"

Another admission - I'm actually not sure that the phrase "you can argue the prices" is absolutely correct. I used it, and it sounds OK to me - but I can't really find a definition of "argue" which fits it. The nearest is "debate or discuss", but that is almost always used with "case" or "question".
Maybe thar or FounDit could give their opinion.
To be sure, I added "about".


I completely agree! Conversations and written answers, the ones in books, are two different worlds!


Drag0nspeaker wrote:
Why does Lee like/enjoy shopping in the markets?
He likes/enjoys shopping in the markets because the prices aren't fixed and you have to argue about them with the stall-holder.

As written Q&A I think these are good. As oral Q&A, I'd just omit the first bit of the answer. Right, I will as well. I've learnt that through the years.
Because the prices aren't fixed and you have to argue about them with the stall-holder.


**************************************

Another question. Going back to the possible answers to this question, why in "a" after "argue" there's "about them" (about the prices) and in "b/c" the reference about prices is at the end of the sentence?

Why does Lee like/enjoy shopping in the markets?
a) Because the prices aren't fixed and you have to argue about them with the stall-holder.
b) Because the prices aren't fixed and you have to argue with the stall-holder about them.
c) Because the prices aren't fixed and you have to argue with the stall-holder about how much to pay.



FounDit wrote:
I agree that "argue" doesn't quite fit. That's why I suggested "haggle" which is the more precise term. However, DavidLearn said that the word "argue" is what is used in the ... listening.

I suggest a discussion of those two words, "argue" and "haggle", and show how Westerners might describe the back and forth over prices as arguing, while other cultures do not. The reason the word "argue" is used in the video, I suspect, is because younger people are not familiar with haggling over prices. It was once done here for some items in earlier times, but rarely done today. I still do it whenever I buy a new car, and it annoys the salespersons. Too bad. I enjoy it, and I've never paid full price.
Good for you!Applause

That's true, FounDit. I sure will discuss and explain the word "haggle" in class.


***************************************************

One last question.
Since Lee said "But I do like the markets." Do you think it's a good idea to ask the students:
What word does Lee use to emphasise that he likes the markets?
He uses "do" (before the verb).

David.


Topic: Could you correct or confirm my deduction? (14a)
Posted: Monday, June 17, 2019 2:20:43 AM
Drag0nspeaker wrote:
I agree with FounDit here - "What does he enjoy?" is the question - not "What does he like about what he enjoys?"

Concerning the modal bit - I think there is scope for a few possibilities.

. . . prices aren't fixed and you have to argue . . .
. . . prices aren't fixed and you can argue . . .
. . . prices aren't fixed and you may argue . . .
. . . prices aren't fixed and you are free to argue . . .

. . . prices aren't fixed and you must argue . . .
. . . prices aren't fixed and you should argue . . .
(These last two make sense, but don't sound quite right).
. . . prices aren't fixed and you can haggle . . .
. . . prices aren't fixed and you haggle . . .
. . . prices aren't fixed and you have to haggle. . .
. . . prices aren't fixed and you need to haggle . . .


My first thought about what to fit into the answer was "can". It's not that you are stuck with a rule which says you have to argue.
You are given a freedom which says you can argue.

But, he says in the video, "have to argue" so that's obviously the #1 answer.

*************
Also different uses of "enjoy" and "like". Most of them are common to both:
I enjoy haggling.
I like haggling.
I like being able to haggle.
I enjoy being able to haggle.
I enjoy it that I can haggle.
(to me this sounds "not bad", but the others sound better)
I like it that I can haggle.

I enjoy that I can haggle.
I like that I can haggle.
I wouldn't argue against these, but I wouldn't use them.

Some only work with one of the 'feeling' verbs:
I like to haggle.
I enjoy to haggle.

**************
As usual - I'm all for economy (no, I'm not Scottish by birth).
Everyone knows that markets are where you shop - and all the students know that these markets are in Beijing.

1. What does Lee enjoy about the markets?
a) (That) Prices aren't fixed and you can argue them with the stall-holder.
b) (He enjoys) Being able to argue about the prices, which aren't fixed.



Hi Drag0n,
Thanks for your explanations and for your economy as well.

In the name of that, what about this question:
Why does Lee like/enjoy shopping in the markets?
He likes/enjoys shopping in the markets because the prices aren't fixed and you have to argue them with the stall-holder.

David.
Topic: Could you correct or confirm my deduction? (14a)
Posted: Monday, June 17, 2019 1:54:33 AM
thar wrote:
Actually, what he likes (about it) and what he enjoys) (doing) are slightly different.

Yes, it can be 'that' or a participle phrase.


What he likes.... is that you have to argue over the prices

what he enjoys ..... is having to argue over the prices


Technically, I don't think you "enjoy that something happens" although you might hear it because sentences can get away from you.
You enjoy doing something.
You enjoy it when something happens/ when you have to do something.
I don't think you "enjoy it that something happens/that you have to do something". Doesn't sound right.

A small distinction but it doesn't feel quite right to me. I know this is the model answer not the question, but just for your information, that is my input. What you do with that is up to you!


DavidLearn wrote:
Hi thar,
If I rephrase the question, these are my two possibilities. I prefer letter "a". What do you think? What is between parentheses is not necessary; right?


FounDit wrote:
If I may offer an opinion. Both of these need help. I suggest:

a) What does Lee like about shopping in the markets, and what does he enjoy doing there?

b) is very similar:
b) What does Lee like about shopping, and what does he enjoy doing in the markets?
(About shopping he likes) that the prices aren't fixed and (he enjoys) having to argue about the prices.

He likes it that the prices aren't fixed, and he enjoys haggling over them.

Or,

That the prices are fixed, and he can haggle over them. (Haggle is really the more accurate term to use)




Hi FounDit,
Thanks for your two possibilities and your help as well.

David.
Topic: Could you correct or confirm my deduction? (14a)
Posted: Saturday, June 15, 2019 11:05:09 AM
thar wrote:
Actually, what he likes (about it) and what he enjoys) (doing) are slightly different.

Yes, it can be 'that' or a participle phrase.


What he likes.... is that you have to argue over the prices

what he enjoys ..... is having to argue over the prices


Technically, I don't think you "enjoy that something happens" although you might hear it because sentences can get away from you.
You enjoy doing something.
You enjoy it when something happens/ when you have to do something.
I don't think you "enjoy it that something happens/that you have to do something". Doesn't sound right.

A small distinction but it doesn't feel quite right to me. I know this is the model answer not the question, but just for your information, that is my input. What you do with that is up to you!


Hi thar,
If I rephrase the question, these are my two possibilities. I prefer letter "a". What do you think? What is between parentheses is not necessary; right?

a) What does Lee like about shopping in the markets and what he enjoys doing there?
b) What does Lee like about shopping and what he enjoys doing in the markets?
(About shopping he likes) that the prices aren't fixed and (he enjoys) having to argue about the prices.



David.
Topic: Could you correct or confirm my deduction? (14a)
Posted: Saturday, June 15, 2019 8:37:13 AM
thar wrote:
Well, maybe.
I think something is necessary.

You need to arrange a price with the stallholder.

That is what he likes about the markets.


The fun thing about the markets is that you have to negotiate (should, it is expected, the custom, the way things are done here).

So I think you need that part expressed in some way - have to argue/are expected to argue/ get the chance to argue.
The prices are not the point. The having to argue is the point.

It is not that he likes to argue. You can argue with a shop assistant in England but they will just think you are an argumentative jerk. But here it is expected of you, part of the culture. That is the fun part for someone used to boring set prices. Haggling is a skill, and being expected to do it is a challenge to an English native!

Hi thar,
Thanks for your detailed explanations.

Then without a doubt, this is the best question and answer. I believe that "that" outside the parenthesis is much better than inside; right? I mean the "that" is part of the answer.
What does Lee enjoy about shopping in the markets?
(He enjoys about shopping in the markets) that prices aren't fixed and you have to argue with the stall-holder about how much to pay.

David.
Topic: Could you correct or confirm my deduction? (14a)
Posted: Saturday, June 15, 2019 7:50:55 AM
Hi teachers,

Lee: But I like markets. Especially the way that prices aren't fixed and you have to argue with the stall-holder about how much to pay.

According to what Lee says, are both answers natural and correct? I think, in the answer "you have" is not necessary, is it?

1. What does Lee enjoy about shopping in the markets in Beijing?
a) (He enjoys that) prices aren't fixed and you have to argue with the stall-holder about how much to pay.
b) (He enjoys about shopping in the markets in Beijing that) prices aren't fixed and you have to argue with the stall-holder about how much to pay.

**********************************************
On second thought, since the students already know because of the audio that we are in Beijing, it is not necessary to use "in Beijing" in the question, is it? That said, I think this is the best question and answer, isn't it?

2. What does Lee enjoy about shopping in the markets?
(He enjoys about shopping in the markets that) prices aren't fixed and you have to argue with the stall-holder about how much to pay.

Thanks.
Topic: Is number 2 correct?
Posted: Monday, June 3, 2019 10:38:36 AM
DavidLearn wrote:
Hi teachers,
Is number 2 correct?

1. What kind of phrase is the underlined phrase? I believe this one is correct.
Learning about other cultures makes people more tolerant.

Answer: It is a gerund phrase.


2. What does the phrase above function as? Is there a better one?
Answer: It functions as the subject of the verb.

Thanks.


FounDit wrote:
A shorter version: What is the function of the phrase?
I'll leave it to you to decide if it's better.

Hi FounDit,
Thanks for your version. It certainly is shorter.

David.

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