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Profile: Romany
User Name: Romany
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Joined: Sunday, June 14, 2009
Last Visit: Tuesday, July 16, 2019 2:28:27 PM
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  Last 10 Posts
Topic: essay number six
Posted: Tuesday, July 16, 2019 2:20:22 PM
FWIW, Ataturk,

you'll find that in this kind of objective, informative article personal stories add to nothing but the word-count. The bulk of this essay is factual - you've discovered this information in various sources and are passing it on. If asked you could provide the source of the information and we could go and look it up for ourselves if we wished. But it would be very challenging to verify an anecdote.Besides, we (the readers) don't know you (the writer) so why should your voice add any weight?

Personal anecdotes have no place among facts - e.g. you'd never find someone interrupting any kind of academic writing to tell a personal story about something that happened to them once: - Nor would the writer of a story intervene to talk about themselves.

If you are sure you're writing something that would benefit from you recounting your personal dealings, then it would be more polished to use a phrase such as
"Direct experience with X taught me......." or "Having dealt with X myself I understand why they attract criticism..." Why? Because that way you're able to continue in the Objective case/voice: the one in which one is most likely to be believed.

The intrusion of "I" jars in an objectively-written piece. One doesn't expect to meet "I"s in informational writing. "I" brings "ego" with it. And ego is the antithesis of fact!

As I said...for what it's worth.
Topic: essay number six
Posted: Monday, July 15, 2019 7:56:15 AM
Ataturk - a general comment:

While it shows that one is a fluent speaker when one includes colloquial phrases, there's a reason we don't do it in essays - it indicates laziness and can sometimes confuse because one isn't expecting colloquial language in such a piece of writing.

The phrase "day in and day out" jumps off the page at me. Were I marking the essay I would wonder if the writer wasn't familiar with words like "constantly", "increasingly" etc. But mostly I'd stop to wonder if it was really true:- does construction continue throughout the night (:"ALL" night) - do they not take breaks or work standard hours ("ALL" day)?.

So the collocation, when broken down, does not actually fit - or at least not in First World countries where commercialisation is driving these changes. Casually, it's use is loose: it's used - often hyperbolically - to give the IMPRESSION of continual action.

In a serious piece of writing it has to be literal or else it's incorrect.

Another reason not to use colloquial language is that many of these phrases are used so often they have become cliches - and cliches are one of the biggest no-nos one can employ in written work. They're considered very bad and very thoughtless ways of expressing oneself.

I know you want to raise your English to a higher standard: this won't happen without a little advice as to what is considered "good" writing and what isn't - for whatever the reason. One may not, personally, agree with some of these conventions: however, whatever the reasons behind them they do exist as part of the learning curve.

(One book you'll find in the shelves of those whose jobs include writing English for public consumption is Gowers "The Complete Plain Words". If that's difficult to get hold of "The Penguin Guide to Plain English" is as good a substitute as any.)
Topic: What is the difference between Proved and Turned out?
Posted: Saturday, July 13, 2019 6:58:58 AM
There's a collocation "proved to be..."
"It proved to be..." is followed by an article and a noun i.e. "It proved to be a mistake", "It proved to be a miscalculation", "It turned out to be more difficult than we had imagined."

The word "that" after "It proved" is not a known collocation. Those words may appear next to each other in some sorts of situations - but contexually those instances will prove to be part of some different usage i.e.

He gave him the ring because it proved that he was who he said he was.
He handed in the paper because it proved that his theory was correct.

This usage is not synonymous with "It turned out..."

We usually use "It turned out that..." when an outcome is different to what we had imagined/thought/accepted.

"I'd never believed his story, but it turned out he was telling the truth."
"He hadn't forgotten our appointment after all; it turned out that he had had an accident on the way to meet us."
"I'd always thought she was rather a snob, but it turned out that she was actually painfully shy."

OK - so that's the usage explained: I hope it makes sense. If you would like all the grammatical underpinning then hopefully one of the posters who enjoys grammatical explanations will provide it.

Topic: "must" to express logical conclusion
Posted: Friday, July 12, 2019 4:11:43 PM

"She must not like to cook" sounds rather confusing to my ear.

Being used to "must" as an imperitive, "She must not like to cook" suggests to me that she is going to be brainwashed or re-wired or something so that the urge to cook becomes distateful to her.

Perhaps to avoid the chance of confusion, I'm used to this being expressed as:

I expect she doesn't like to cook
I spose [suppose] she doesn't like cooking.
I'm guessing she doesn't like to cook (informal). or
I gather she doesn't like cooking?

I'm also used to hearing "Must I?" meaning "Do I HAVE to?" because of its imperitive nature.
Topic: FYI - Climategate - How Attitudes Have Changed in the Ten Years Since
Posted: Friday, July 12, 2019 3:47:48 PM
Hope -

Yes, that's what "the beach" has always looked like for me. And also - I never took it for granted. I vividly remember a day when I was 26 and floating in that same pellucid water. I looked down and saw my brown body in it's orange bikini, the vivid green algae on a nearby rock and banana trees; the loves of my life - my dog and my man - black against the soft, white sand, and the scent of jungle (it has a particular smell y'know)...and it suddenly hit me that there were millions of people all over the world who could only visit such places through their tv sets, while for us it was a normal Saturday arvo! I swore never to forget that moment and have carried it around with me ever since.

Within a year I'd left PNG and, though I did go travelling around the South Pacific for the next year, I never went back to the place I'd lived in since I was 14. I'd kinda figured on that - but it never struck me for a single moment that, if I did decide to return, there'd be nothing familiar to return to; there would be so much actually missing by now that would only live on in people's memories!

I'm so grateful for that second of blinding clarity long ago.
Topic: Beverages, coffee
Posted: Friday, July 12, 2019 3:13:38 PM
And a soft drink is one without alcohol i.e. Pepsi, Fanta, Lemonade etc.
Topic: FYI - Climategate - How Attitudes Have Changed in the Ten Years Since
Posted: Friday, July 12, 2019 3:02:02 PM

Hope - yes, The Solomons was where one went for some R & R - even from as far away as Port Moresby. It's somewhat surreal to know that the places where we played darts and went scuba diving to bring back lunch, where my friend lost her engagement ring and the whole island went looking for it and we got stuck in a patch of sea cucumbers which tangled us up in their sticky threads...and the pikinins laughed at us as they untangled us - gone.

It's difficult to convinve the mums & dads & kids who have lost not just their homes but their homeland, that climate change is part of a plot put about by the Chinese & "the Elite". The only Chinese these people know are the ones who run the trading stores on the islands; and they wouldn't recognise an "elite" if they met one swimming in the sea where their houses used to be.
Topic: FYI - Climategate - How Attitudes Have Changed in the Ten Years Since
Posted: Thursday, July 11, 2019 7:53:34 PM
Topic: after curtain call
Posted: Tuesday, July 9, 2019 1:42:42 PM

Although a particular cast or character may be called back more than once to take a curtain call the collocation "curtain call" refers to a particular segment in the whole process of presenting a play or stage act. In a play the presentation takes the form of Acts (One, Two, or Three is traditional though there's no limit on the number of acts at all), Interval, Finale etc., and Curtain Call.There may even be an Introduction - though this isn't so common nowadays.

All of these are rehearsed seperately at first and at rehearsal call one is told that one's going to practice, for example, Act One. Another rehearsal will be called for say, Curtain Call. Then the whoole thing is put together and one does Run Throughs - which includes every component of the presentation. So "Curtain Call" names one particular segment of the whole - which doesn't take an article.

"She left after Act One".
"She left after Interval."
"She left after Curtain Call."

Whether this can be attached to any rule or not is unimportant: that's just the way it's been phrased for the last few hundred years.

Similar to "She left after supper." not "a supper"."
"She left town after work" not "a/the work".
"She went to bed straight after Vespers." - not "the Vespers".

Mind you - that's just the way people involved in the production speak. There may be those who are unaware of these conventions, or who eschew convention altogether.
Topic: Happy Birthday America! "Home of the FREE Because of the BRAVE"
Posted: Sunday, July 7, 2019 10:11:21 AM
Well heck, yikes!!!!!! and EEK!!!!!Whistle Whistle Whistle Whistle Whistle Whistle Whistle Whistle

Back in the day TFD peeps objected to those invading forums with religious & political views - so first was added the Politics forum and then the Religion forum so people who were more interested in their own beliefs than in the English language had a place to express themselves in. This was to guarantee that those who actually wanted to talk about English and Language had at least two places where they knew they could talk to their hearts content about the English Language.

This particular forum is labelled "Vocabulary". Forum users have a right to expect that it will deal with thoughts, ideas, explanations, meanings of a particular words or words. Once in a while a learner might post in the wrong forum - but native speakers usually manage to understand which is the appropriate forum to post in. Most native speakers also have a feeling that, for learners, as well as all the other native speakers in the world who don't share their individual beliefs, politics, life-styles, educational standards - all the thing that make one an individual - Grammar & Vocabulary forums are places where they can leave all those differences behind when they are discussing the subject of language.

Across the world developed nations regard freedom of speech as one of their great freedoms. Most of us have, indeed, had this freedom for millenia and have worked out how to exercise it. Of course,the rest of the world has also had millenia to understand that subverting this basic right to give citizens the freedom to denigrate, hurt, disrespect, and verbally assault those who don't share their politics, religion, social mores, nationality; would lead to disruption, animosity, tension and even war.

Thus, as every right we have comes with responsibilites, citizens utilise the one trope at their disposal to combat all of these negatives - good manners. There are, we have discovered, certain American citizens who interpret their right to free speech as the right to forego the injunctions of Church and Society to strive for peace, understanding and the smooth running of society. We learn from childhood onwards to bite our lips when it would be easier to verbally attack; to keep quiet when it would feel so good to let rip; to know when to walk away - both actually and metaphorically - when everything inside them finds it tempting to hit back & cause damage. This is called acting in a mature way and is a trope one continues to engage in throughout life in order come to peaceful outcomes, respectful interactions, and to keep the peace.

This is a language site. This Forum is the Vocabulary forum. This post belongs either in Religion or Politics - or broken up between the two. There is only one mention of vocabulary in here - it concerns a word which has been discussed & presented before but whose meaning the person who introduced it still doesn't quite get. Thus it was used...and probably always will be cover their confusion by saying silly, nasty things about those who do understand it. This is not mature behaviour, as well as being unmannerly - besides providing a shocking example to people intent on mastering the English language.

Had this thread been posted where it should have been, those who don't want to argue or fight or insult others could have left it to fester quietly away there - instead of demonstrating to Learners & people from other cultures just how badly the English language can be utilised and abused to hurt and insult anyone who isn't exactly the same as they are.

Word for this thread = shamefull.

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