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Profile: progpen
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User Name: progpen
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Joined: Friday, October 2, 2015
Last Visit: Saturday, June 23, 2018 10:11:21 PM
Number of Posts: 1,755
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  Last 10 Posts
Topic: Trump is Taking Children from Parents Who Are Asylum Seekers
Posted: Saturday, June 23, 2018 10:45:20 AM
FounDit wrote:
Only a fool or someone who is willfully blind (or stupid) can fail to see that fact.


Right back atcha.

Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
Topic: Trump is Taking Children from Parents Who Are Asylum Seekers
Posted: Saturday, June 23, 2018 10:37:20 AM
FounDit wrote:
But entering the country without permission is exactly the same - legally.


No it is not the same thing, legally, morally, intellectually or any other way. Entering the country without permission is a misdemeanor (legally). Rape is a class B felony (legally).

Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
Topic: Trump is Taking Children from Parents Who Are Asylum Seekers
Posted: Saturday, June 23, 2018 7:56:58 AM
Trying to apply for asylum in the US is "not" the same thing as raping the country.

Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
Topic: Fact Check. There was no law to separate families.
Posted: Saturday, June 23, 2018 7:54:08 AM
Hope, you are right of course that money is the driving factor. Mactoria is correct that the Democratic Party is nowhere near being capable of fixing anything, and BobShilling is correct that there are some republicans who don't like what their party is doing.

The things I see happening are:
1). The Democratic party replaces the Republican party as the conservative party. There is history of this happening in our past and I believe it will happen again. The Democratic party leadership is much closer to traditional Republican than the Republican party is now.

2). The Republican party will splinter into 2 or 3 extremist parties.

3). A new progressive party will be built from ex-Democrats who are no longer represented by the Democratic party. This is not so much of a stretch at all. There is deep division within the Democratic party right now and the "left wing" of the Democratic party is strong enough that I think it will happen relatively soon.

Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
Topic: Price of gasoline
Posted: Friday, June 22, 2018 8:39:38 AM
Drag0nspeaker wrote:
Of course - since your president's team has now publicly announced that it does not agree with people having human rights, I don't know what you can do.


We fight. Not with guns, but with words and social and political action.

Elie Wiesel - Romanian-born American Jewish writer, professor, political activist, Nobel Laureate, and Holocaust survivor.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elie_Wiesel



Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
Topic: Fact Check. There was no law to separate families.
Posted: Thursday, June 21, 2018 7:32:41 PM
Even though the family separation has possibly temporarily stopped, until the media are distracted by the next crisis, here is some fact checking on the subject.

1). A "law to separate families" was enacted prior to April 2018, and the federal government is powerless not to enforce it.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/was-law-separate-families-passed-1997/
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/may/29/donald-trump/trump-blames-democrat-own-policy-separating-family/
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/19/us/fact-check-trump-child-separation.html
False
There is no federal law that stipulates that children and parents be separated at the border, no matter how families entered the United States. An increase in child detainees separated from parents stemmed directly from a change in enforcement policy repeatedly announced by Sessions in April and May 2018,

Also, the Flores Settlement Agreement that has been trotted out by numerous White House wonks calls for the release of unaccompanied minors to family members or sponsors who can care for them as their immigration case is resolved. The Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act of 2008, which Trump has wrongly called "a Democrat rule," determines that unaccompanied minors be transferred to Health and Human Services custody.

The problem with their "interpretation" of this is that the children in question were not unaccompanied until the White House separated them from their families, then they conveniently became unaccompanied.


2). Obama and Bush did it too and they were worse than we are.
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/immigration/2018/06/18/trumps-zero-tolerance-policy-differs-ways-bush-obama-treated-immigrant-families
The Obama White House brainstormed ways to control the surge and discourage families from making the journey. One of those ideas was to separate parents from their children, an Obama domestic policy adviser told The New York Times.

“I do remember looking at each other like, ‘We’re not going to do this, are we?’” said Cecilia Muñoz, the adviser. “We spent five minutes thinking it through and concluded that it was a bad idea. The morality of it was clear — that’s not who we are.”

Obama's team settled on expanding the detention of immigrant families by adding more facilities where they could wait for their administrative cases to be processed.

The following year, a federal appeals court decided that the Flores settlement, with its “least restrictive setting” requirement, also applies to accompanied minors. The court didn’t order the release of immigrant parents with the children but didn’t forbid it, either.

“What that ended up meaning, under the Obama administration, was that families who might have been otherwise detained were released because the Obama administration decided not to separate those children from their parents,” Pierce said.

Nevertheless, Obama remained aggressive on illegal immigration and was dubbed “deporter-in-chief” by critics. Deportations under his presidency peaked in 2012 when about 410,000 immigrants were removed from the U.S., ICE statistics show. In his final year in office, about 240,000 people were removed.


What about Bush’s zero-tolerance zones?
In 2005, President George W. Bush's administration introduced Operation Streamline at the border crossing in the Texas city of Del Rio. The program eventually expanded to more border sectors.

The goal of the program was to refer unauthorized border-crossers for prosecution, but families with children were exempted from enforcement.

“The Border Patrol, as a matter of policy, does not refer for prosecution juveniles, parents traveling with minor children, certain persons with health conditions, and others who require prompt return to their country of origin for humanitarian reasons,” reads a report about the program issued by The Chief Justice Earl Warren Institute on Race, Ethnicity and Diversity at the University of California, Berkeley.


3). Is the policy of separating families new?
https://www.vox.com/2018/6/11/17443198/children-immigrant-families-separated-parents
Yes. But it’s building on an existing system, and attention to family separation has brought more awareness to problems with that system that have been going on for some time.






https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/immigration-border-crisis/fact-check-did-obama-administration-separate-families-n884856
https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/qa-on-border-detention-of-children/

Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
Topic: Trump is Taking Children from Parents Who Are Asylum Seekers
Posted: Thursday, June 21, 2018 6:00:53 PM
Listening . . . wrote:
Lotje1000 wrote:
I read today that those children are also given drugs to manage their trauma.
Source.


I am hoping beyond hope that this is not true. If it turns out to be the case, I would not be shocked. What more accurate way is there to welcome someone to the country? A country that seeks a “one pill will fix it” mentality. Pharmaceutical drugs that are prescribed for minor symptoms and end up causing much more harm than good. (The original symptom begins to look attractive!) My disgust with the pharmaceutical companies and FDA is for another thread.
I don’t pray. But... I pray to the god of reason and compassion that they are NOT giving the detained kids drugs. Pray Pray


Listening, I'm right there with you. When I first read it, I thought "well of course that's what they would do because pharmaceuticals fix everything in the US." We've become fixated on having a pill to fix everything.

Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
Topic: Trump is Taking Children from Parents Who Are Asylum Seekers
Posted: Thursday, June 21, 2018 7:24:44 AM
Priscilla86 wrote:
Where are these 11 million people? They can't all be gang members and rapists, otherwise there will be chaos in the streets.


According to the NRA and Republicans there is chaos in the streets. Anecdotes = chaos.

Most of the 11 million are in construction, housekeeping, working in the fields, taking care of our children, preparing our food, raising our livestock. They are also paying taxes, going to church and putting their own children through school.

Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
Topic: Trump is Taking Children from Parents Who Are Asylum Seekers
Posted: Wednesday, June 20, 2018 9:59:59 PM
Hope123 wrote:
Public outcry keeping the pressure on was the answer.


Absolutely right. And in order to maintain that pressure this will need to stay in the public dialog so they do not forget or get distracted.

Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
Topic: Trump is Taking Children from Parents Who Are Asylum Seekers
Posted: Wednesday, June 20, 2018 2:00:09 PM
Listening . . . wrote:
progpen wrote:
Listening . . . wrote:
I find it ironic that the loudest and angriest about the treatment of the children are also the ones calling for violence.


Hi Listening. Who is calling for violence? I've not seen discussions about this issue where those opposing the separation of children from their family are calling for violence, but would be very interested to know if it is happening.



Plenty of examples-

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2018/06/20/peter-fonda-tweets-wants-to-rip-barron-trump-from-his-mother-and-put-him-in-cage-with-pedophiles.amp.html

http://dailycaller.com/2018/06/17/kathy-griffin-attacks-melania-trump/

https://thepoliticalinsider.com/dhs-secretary-mexican-restaurant-heckled/

https://www.theblaze.com/news/2018/06/06/leftist-actor-goes-on-unhinged-rant-calling-for-a-trump-coup-hit-the-streets



Ah, I see. Thank you Listening.

Nolite te bastardes carborundorum

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