The Free Dictionary  
mailing list For webmasters
Welcome Guest Forum Search | Active Topics | Members

Profile: nightdream
About
User Name: nightdream
Forum Rank: Advanced Member
Occupation:
Interests: Languages, swimming, painting
Gender: Female
Home Page
Statistics
Joined: Thursday, August 20, 2015
Last Visit: Wednesday, July 17, 2019 10:51:52 AM
Number of Posts: 311
[0.03% of all post / 0.22 posts per day]
Avatar
  Last 10 Posts
Topic: "Being", "having..."
Posted: Wednesday, July 17, 2019 10:51:05 AM
Are the given sentenses correct:

1) When the dawn came, the man being beaten, came back. And they came back their home and houskeeping.

2) Call me and I will certainly come back being late in the evening.

3) The man thought that the thief, having deceived him, was going to surrender him.
Topic: which of the variants would be correct?
Posted: Wednesday, July 17, 2019 5:05:06 AM
Thank you. As I understand the use of the first variant is not clear for comprehension of who deceive.

Is the second variant is grammatically correct, to use "having deceived" in the middle of the sentense, after "the thief" ?



Drag0nspeaker wrote:
The first point (not what you are asking) is that you do not surrender someone.
Well you could, but it would not fit in this sentence.
A security guard, who had caught a thief, would surrender the thief to the police when they arrived - but a thief surrendering a rich man . . . to whom?

I think you mean "surrender to him" - which means the thief stops fighting or trying to escape and allows himself to be arrested.

**************
Now - your question:
The two variations seem to mean the same (but they do not make a lot of sense). However, just looking at the grammar:
They are complex sentences, with two actions by the same subject.

1. A. The rich man thought that, having deceived him, the thief was going to surrender to him.
1. B. The rich man ran back fast.

2. A. The rich man thought that the thief, having deceived him, was going to surrender to him.
2. B. The rich man ran back fast.

The clauses "B" do not change anything so can be omitted. They seem to be the later result of the thought.

1.A. - The phrase "having deceived him" is in the second clause - the object of "thought" - and so is connected to the thief.
The rich man's idea was - "The thief has deceived me, so he is going to surrender to me."

2.A. - The phrase "having deceived him" immediately follows the noun "thief" and so is connected to the thief.
The rich man's idea was - "The thief has deceived me, so he is going to surrender to me."

So - to me - your sentences say.
The rich man thought "The thief has deceived me, so he is going to surrender to me", then the rich man ran back fast.
Topic: on one's way
Posted: Wednesday, July 17, 2019 4:56:32 AM
Are the variants acceptable as:


They had been going for a long time and (istead of "when") came across a hole.


They had been going (without "for a long time") and (instead of "when") saw a red fox running.


They had been going for a long time and went till dawn came.




Drag0nspeaker wrote:
Hi nightdream.
Blodybeef is right.

There is nothing grammatically wrong with your sentences really - it is more a trouble with the choice of words.

"Go" is not an easy verb to play with (or to use as an example). It has too many meanings - and there are several idiomatic phrases which use "go".
You will not hear a native speaker use 'go' as a word on its own.
"Go" and "went" are not used without other data - you may go to somewhere, go from somewhere, go along a path, go to do something - but you rarely see a sentence which just says "They went" or "They went and went".

They had been travelling/walking/hiking for a long time and came across a hole.
They had been travelling/walking/hiking for a long time when they came across a hole.
They had been travelling/walking/hiking and saw a red fox running, so they stopped to watch.
They had been travelling/walking/hiking when they saw a red fox running, so they stopped to watch.
They had been going through the forest for a long time and came across a hole.
They went along the path till they came to a hole.
Topic: the verb "Go" and past simple tense
Posted: Wednesday, July 17, 2019 4:48:26 AM
Thank you. I have added the information, but you have not noticed it:

They went for a long time and came across a house. - If one shold use it as "they had been going for a long time..." is it acceptable not to change "and" for "when" and leave "and"?


As I have understood you, the sentense as: "They went (not waited) till the dawn came" is correct, have not is? Then,


1 a) They had been going for a very long time and went till dawn came. - Is it correct?


b) They went on their way and had been going for a very long time and went till dawn came.



2 a) He went on his way, went for a very long time and went for all eternity. =

= They went on their way, went for a very long time and went till dawn came. (similar case).


b) They went for a very long time and went till dawn came.



Drag0nspeaker wrote:
The tenses are not a problem really. It's the use of "went" as the verb.

You can't really just say "They went for a long time."
Went where?
OR - went without what?
Went from where?
They had been going where when dawn came?

As taurine says - the first is lacking information and the third doesn't seem to add up.

**************
There is a datum (which seems to have a lot of truth) that the most difficult words are the smallest words: as, be, go, get, at, to.
"Went" is a form of "go".

Try to use a common word (but not one of the multi-use two-letter or four-letter words).

They went for days and nights without stopping.
Try these:
They waited for a long time.
They waited till dawn came.


One doesn't usually use "had been . . ." with "till". It is usually followed by "when" and an event.
They had been waiting a long time when dawn came.
They'd been waiting five hours when dawn came.


Topic: The sequense of tense
Posted: Tuesday, July 16, 2019 9:19:05 PM
Thanks.

No, I meant the variant as

Seeing her, he forgot about the beast (that) he had hunted and gazed at her, admiringly."


palapaguy wrote:
Is this what you meant?

"What about the variant of: Seeing her, he forgot about the beast he was hunting and gazed at her, admiringly."

Topic: which of the variants would be correct?
Posted: Tuesday, July 16, 2019 9:07:35 PM
The use of "... looking at the lake..."


nightdream wrote:
1) He patted his horse as black as pitch, wondered why the oxen did not drink and thought, looking at the lake, that he was feeling dizzy or the lake was evaporating. - (I think it is incorrect).

2) He patted his horse as black as pitch, wondered why the oxen did not drink and thought that, looking at the lake, he was feeling dizzy or the lake was evaporating. - (I think it is incorrect too).

3)) He patted his horse as black as pitch, wondered why the oxen did not drink and thought that he was feeling dizzy or the lake was evaporating, looking at the lake.

4) He patted his horse as black as pitch, wondered why the oxen did not drink and looking at the lake, he thought that he was feeling dizzy or the lake was evaporating.
Topic: which of the variants would be correct?
Posted: Tuesday, July 16, 2019 9:06:50 PM
The use of "...having deceived me..."


nightdream wrote:
1)) the rich man thought that, having deceived him, the thief was going to surrender him and ran back fast.

2) the rich man thought that the thief, having deceived him, was going to surrender him and ran back fast.

Topic: which of the variants would be correct?
Posted: Tuesday, July 16, 2019 8:58:26 PM
Thank you very much. The variant that you have suggested is the most acceptable to me.

Could you give me some explanations in the rest 2 topics with the same names?


Drag0nspeaker wrote:
The thing is that "on his way" doesn't tell you anything.
On his way to where? or on his way from where?
This makes sentences 1,2 and 4 look meaningless when they are presented in isolation.

With another sentence, it may be possible . . .

He came here from the hospital. On his way, while he was running, he saw a man carrying a sack.


It would seem a little odd to use your sentence #4.
"On his way" refers to "to here" and "from the hospital" - so it should be positioned in the sentence as near to "here from the hospital" as possible.

*****************
In general - as you have shown here - adverbial phrases like "on his way here" and "while running" (or adverbial clauses like "while he was running") can be moved around in the sentence without affecting the meaning much.
The main "rule" is that adverbial phrases have to be in the correct clause.

Sentences 1 and 2 (with both adverbials at the end) are a bit ambiguous. It is definite that he saw a man, and that the man was carrying the sack. However, was HE on his way or the man? And was the man running, or HIM?
I read them both as meaning: 1. the man was carrying the sack; 2. the man was on his way; 3. the man was running 4. HE saw all this.
But did you mean that: 1. the man was carrying the sack; 2. HE saw the man; 3. HE was on his way; 4. HE was running?
#1 seems to mean one and #2 seems to mean the other - but neither of them is certain.

#3 seems not quite so ambiguous - but there is still a little doubt: Was HE running while seeing, or was the man carrying the sack running?

Another important point is that adjectival phrases or clauses (like "carrying a sack" in this sentence) generally come right after the noun they modify (or as soon as practically possible). It is "the man" who is carrying the sack, not "he".
That would be "He saw a man while he, carrying a sack, was running." or "He saw a man while he was running carrying a sack."
Topic: "for a long time", "very long" and tense
Posted: Tuesday, July 16, 2019 8:51:09 PM
As I understood "go" is a specific verb.

It is acceptable to say - they slept for a long time, but one must not say - they went for a long time, it should be in Progressive tense.


What about this use:

He went on his way and went for a very long time, he went for all eternity.
Topic: on one's way
Posted: Tuesday, July 16, 2019 8:15:06 PM
Thank you. I do not need to use "on one's way".

Then, are the variants acceptable as:


They had been going for a long time and (istead of "when") came across a hole.


They had been going (without "for a long time") and (instead of "when") saw a red fox running.



Blodybeef wrote:
Instead of "going on foot" you can say "walk." It is simpler. And, in my experience, when speaking or writing in English (or in any foreign language [well, even when using my native language]) I have noticed that simpler sentences are better. You are, after all, trying your message to be correctly understood by the receiving party.

If you really need to use the term "on their way" I'd suggest constructing the sentence like this :

"They had been on their way for a very long time when they came across a hole.

"They had been on their way when they saw a red fox running.



2) Is it acceptable to use "go" in the past as:


They went and went, went very long till dawn fell. (This could be ok, for a very early beginner or a child, but avoid it, if possible)

They went (on their way) very long and came across a hole. (I never came across with this kind of usage.)

They went (on their way) and saw a red fox running. (I never came across with this kind of usage either.)

Main Forum RSS : RSS
Forum Terms and Guidelines | Privacy policy | Copyright © 2008-2019 Farlex, Inc. All rights reserved.