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Superfluous words Options
Avonlea
Posted: Saturday, June 5, 2010 5:17:28 AM

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Is 'have got' and 'have' the same? Many people say 'have got' but I was taught to say only 'have'.
Rabeeta Warsi
Posted: Saturday, June 5, 2010 8:02:52 AM

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I think bOth are same..
but 'have got' emphasizes more over doing certain task..

~R@!n oF sPr!ng~
Tovarish
Posted: Saturday, June 5, 2010 8:37:07 AM

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A superfluous word would be 'girt'. I have never heard anyone use it, except in our National Anthem.
'Our land is girt by sea'
We are an island, hence, girt by sea.
Avonlea
Posted: Saturday, June 5, 2010 9:17:33 AM

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Welcome Rabeeta.
Yes they are the same but the word got is superfluous, in other words, it is not needed.

All islands in the sea are girt by sea Tovarish, but most islands don't use the word in their National Anthem hahah. Of course girt has one syllable and surrounded has three so try putting surrounded instead of girt. Then have a cup of tea and an ANZAC bickie. Share it with a Kiwi.
So if you get my drift, girt is not superfluous, it is just the word that fits!!!!
Ravindra
Posted: Saturday, June 5, 2010 12:18:48 PM
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Have got means 'have'. And so is has got. Though superfouous, some prefer.
Similar are 'return back', 'acknowledge receipt', 'discuss about', 'diagonally opposit', 'first and foremost'

Ravindra
Avonlea
Posted: Saturday, June 5, 2010 1:13:19 PM

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Thank you Ravindra, exactly. It is incorrect English. Return back means back back or return return. People don't think enough about what they are saying and so the language changes and not for the better. Why write or speak words that you don't need to?
Another one I find confusing is 'each and every'?
Cass
Posted: Saturday, June 5, 2010 1:56:18 PM

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i think "first and foremost and "each and every" are used for emphasis. I know I used those phrases when I want to make a point. There are many similar phrases.


To see what is in front of one's nose needs a constant struggle. - George Orwell
Tovarish
Posted: Saturday, June 5, 2010 6:27:38 PM

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I did raise a post some time back 'gotten'.
This seems to be a word mainly used in the US, for have got.
Not so much down here, but it is creeping into 'usual speak' from access to the Television.

Afraid so Avonlea, we are stuck with 'girt'.
In my minds eye, I just add an 'h', make it girth, and alls well with the world, well that is after my ANZAC Bickie and a good cup of Dilmah.

Last generation would have said, 'I'll just have a Bex and a little lie down' ha ha
Romany
Posted: Saturday, June 5, 2010 8:51:23 PM
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Ravinda - I saw the point of what you were saying, but which word do you consider superflous in "acknowledge receipt" or "diagonally opposite"?

One can acknowledge receipt of a letter, manuscript, assignment just to put the senders mind at rest that it didn't get lost in the mail. It doesn't mean you have read it, or even opened it however. It might still be months until you get around to opening, deconstructing and answering to what you have recieved, but by acknowledging that you have it, the sender isn't going mental wondering where it got to, surely?

And is it really superflous, in giving directions, for example, to say a certain location is diagonally, rather than directly, opposite something?If it is there is just another instance where I have been incorrect for years without realising it!

Tovarish - I feel your pain with the "girt" thing!. Girt? Girt! The bloody song was written in the twentieth century, not the seventeenth, and who the hell picks a word like girt out of the ether to give thousands of people the giggles every time they sing the anthem??

Yeah. Girt sux.
grammargeek
Posted: Saturday, June 5, 2010 9:07:45 PM

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Romany wrote:
Ravinda - I saw the point of what you were saying, but which word do you consider superflous in "acknowledge receipt" or "diagonally opposite"?

One can acknowledge receipt of a letter, manuscript, assignment just to put the senders mind at rest that it didn't get lost in the mail. It doesn't mean you have read it, or even opened it however. It might still be months until you get around to opening, deconstructing and answering to what you have recieved, but by acknowledging that you have it, the sender isn't going mental wondering where it got to, surely?

And is it really superflous, in giving directions, for example, to say a certain location is diagonally, rather than directly, opposite something?If it is there is just another instance where I have been incorrect for years without realising it!

Tovarish - I feel your pain with the "girt" thing!. Girt? Girt! The bloody song was written in the twentieth century, not the seventeenth, and who the hell picks a word like girt out of the ether to give thousands of people the giggles every time they sing the anthem??

Yeah. Girt sux.


Romany, I can't really speak about the "girt" issue, but I totally agree with your thinking regarding "acknowledge receipt" and "diagonally opposite."
Avonlea
Posted: Sunday, June 6, 2010 4:21:00 AM

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The person who wrote the Australian National Anthem wanted to say that although Australia is a continent it is also an Island, so he wanted to say Surrounded by sea and the word doesn't fit the music. I'm not sure about the name of the National Anthem, 'Advance Australia Fair' it seems a throw back to the first colony days of being a Penal Colony. I don't believe that Australia has to keep proving itself to the rest of the world. There is an Australian TV programme called 'Australia has Talent', of course it has talent! Why not call it 'Australian Talent'.

Tovarish have a cup of Bushells tea with a Kiwi and maybe you will both need an aspro hahaha.

Ravinder was right about return back!
Taxijack
Posted: Sunday, June 6, 2010 4:01:58 PM
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Isn't it called poetic licence, in modern parlance, how much sense does Shakespeare make unless some one explains it to you. Just the evolution of language I suppose.
Tovarish
Posted: Sunday, June 6, 2010 11:21:13 PM

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During my primary schooling days 'God Save the Queen' was sung each morning.
We the debate to change it, dear old 'Waltzing Matilda' was also nominated along with our current anthem.

Can you imagine an anthem about a Swag (Matilda) man (drifter) duffing (rustling) a sheep (jumbuck) and then drowning himself when the Police arrived?.

Considering our history, I was totally in favour of Matilda!
Avonlea
Posted: Monday, June 7, 2010 3:55:14 AM

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We also sang 'God Save the Queen' at school. I also liked singing 'Waltzing Matilda' with two different tunes. I'm still not sure who Matilda is? Perhaps he was taking the rustled sheep home to her. I liked the last verse 'and his ghost maybe heard as you pass by that billabong, you'll come a waltzing Matilda with me'. We used to sing that part making ghostly sounds as well.
Avonlea
Posted: Monday, June 7, 2010 4:06:00 AM

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I agree with you Taxijack about poetic licence.
Shakespeare sounds great when read out loud or performed but he often doesn't say much just repeats the same thing in different ways. Just translating the old English into modern English seems to remove some of its lustre.
Romany
Posted: Monday, June 7, 2010 4:09:28 AM
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The name for a swag in Australia used to be "Matilda".

Now, if you are unsure what a swag is:- its the sleeping bag and paraphenalia that a homeless person, or one constantly on the move from, say, shearing shed to shearing shed, carries on his back. Like the rucksacks of modern backpackers.

These nomadic people used to love the open road and traipsing through the bush so they used to liken their endless treks to going for an enjoyable and carefree dance, thus: waltzing Matilda down the road.

BTW in the song the word "may" is used to mean "might". The word "maybe" simply means perhaps. Thus the line is "His ghost may be heard..."(there's a possibility one can hear his ghost singing.) "His ghost maybe heard" would mean that perhaps his ghost heard something. Does thatexplanation make sense?
Avonlea
Posted: Monday, June 7, 2010 5:55:47 AM

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Thanks for the "Matilida" meaning Romany. Not sure about the ghost part. The last thing on the swagman's mind was that he was a swagman and he didn't want to go to jail or maybe at that time, executed, so he saw death as perhaps a continuation of his nomadic life. The fact that his ghost can be heard singing "you'll come a waltzing matilda with me", is because he didn't move on; he is in limbo at the billabong. Perhaps his ghost is a warning to other poachers?

Another part I don't understand is "Up rode the squatter mounted on his thoroughbred, up came the troopers one, two, three". I can only assume that it was alright for the white settlers to squat on Aboriginal land but not for another settler or nomadic person to poach on the land????
Tovarish
Posted: Monday, June 7, 2010 7:07:29 AM

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Avonlea, your last paragraph is a little confusing to me.

'Up rode the Squatter mounted on his thoroughbred'. A squatter was the term for large land holders, or graziers.

'Up rode the Trooperss, one two, three'. Troopers were the Mounted Police Force in Australia'.

The swagman was going to be arrested for 'sheep stealing', poaching is really stealing.

Aboriginal Land Rights needs to be a seperate Topic.
Avonlea
Posted: Monday, June 7, 2010 8:09:41 AM

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Sorry Tovarish, didn't mean to get into land rights. I was referring to squatter as this; To settle on unoccupied land without legal claim!
That's why it didn't make sense to me. A squatter as mentioned above, would not call in the troopers or the police because somebody were steeling their things, because they themselves were breaking the law!
I did use the word assume. I didn't know the Australian meaning of squatter meant large land holders or graziers.
If you still don't understand, please look up squatter in this dictionary!
Tovarish
Posted: Monday, June 7, 2010 6:57:18 PM

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Avonlea, absolutely no offence taken, we Aussies have thicker skins than that.

Yes, the term , to squat meant to take unlawful possession of, but not in this case.

The two types, of Landholders, Squatters were Station owners, and Farmers were/are called 'Cockies'.

The Australian Cockatoo, picks at the ground for seed, so it was a natural assumption that the early farmers were also doing just that. Aussie humor.
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