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Mirror Mirror on the wall, which of these countries is most likely to fall? Options
drew34
Posted: Friday, March 26, 2010 7:25:57 PM

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A. The U.S.
B. Greece
C. China.....yeah right.
D. Canada

The answer is........A.

According to a CBO report, the debt will rise to 90% of our GDP. President Obama's fiscal 2011 budget will generate nearly $10 trillion in cumulative budget deficits over the next 10 years. That totals to 1 trillion dollars a year. Really? What in god's name is he spending all this money? Oh yeah that's right, the unions. They say by 2020, social security will be gone. Please wake up....In his own words, President Obama said "We are 5 days away from fundamentally transforming America." Is this his transformation?

If you make any money, the government shoves you in the creek once a year with it in your pockets, and all that don't get wet you can keep~Will Rogers

TL Hobs
Posted: Friday, March 26, 2010 7:45:26 PM

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...and OMG! Obama is black! And he is in the White House! And the sky is falling! And $arah Palin is making big bucks! And, John McCain is getting daffy! And, we can't have that!

Why weren't you screaming when Bush/Cheney blew the first trillion on an ill gotten war and bailed out AIG on their way out the door to sink the ship when Obama won the election?

Get over it! The GOP is a party of liars and losers. Has beens who never will be again. Go to Costa Rica with Trash Dumbaugh, if you will, please.

Or, you can enter into a rational discussion about what needs to be done to restore America's integrity and standing as a world leader, rather than cheer for its destruction because your favorite politic is a bunch of no-win losers.

You guys make me sick.
MarySM
Posted: Friday, March 26, 2010 7:53:30 PM

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TL Hobs can I be your "ditto head?"
Raparee
Posted: Friday, March 26, 2010 8:14:10 PM

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TL, you keep this up, I may have to start voting for YOU! ;)
oxymoron
Posted: Friday, March 26, 2010 10:19:32 PM

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Hey this ones brewing nicely. Gonna return later.Bye for now.
Antler
Posted: Saturday, March 27, 2010 1:17:42 AM

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TL Wrote:

Quote:
...and OMG! Obama is black! And he is in the White House! And the sky is falling! And $arah Palin is making big bucks! And, John McCain is getting daffy! And, we can't have that!


so if someone disagrees with government policy, they are a racist? is that what you are saying?

what we saw up there in the first post, was someone pointing out a few facts about fiscal issues.

your response was to have some kind of bizarre spasm, put a whole lot of words in their mouth and insult them.

perhaps if you are not interested in having a discussion, or if you have been watching too many msnbc-fox/ coke-pepsi cartoons on cable tv, you need to take a break from the forums, or maybe turn your tv off.

now, i am not a republican, i feel pretty much all of the politicians need to be jailed. i will never vote for another politician from either of those parties as long as i live.. but you are the one showing irrationality here, not Drew.
Antler
Posted: Saturday, March 27, 2010 1:21:24 AM

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The answer to the question is A.

Not because of any President or another, but because it's happening, we are living in it, and we have been for longer than we realize. Obama?

It started long before Obama.
rbn
Posted: Saturday, March 27, 2010 2:41:12 AM
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In my opinion, The Vatican is certainly nearest to fall. What with rampant conspiracy in criminal activity, and such sordid deeds long cloistered and covered up? If any sovereign entity on Earth is going down soon it will be the priests and cardinals and nuns coming from Vatican City.

...


TazMage
Posted: Saturday, March 27, 2010 8:53:35 AM
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Location: Somewhere On Qo'noS
drew34 wrote:
A. The U.S.
B. Greece
C. China.....yeah right.
D. Canada

The answer is........A.

According to a CBO report, the debt will rise to 90% of our GDP. President Obama's fiscal 2011 budget will generate nearly $10 trillion in cumulative budget deficits over the next 10 years. That totals to 1 trillion dollars a year. Really? What in god's name is he spending all this money? Oh yeah that's right, the unions. They say by 2020, social security will be gone. Please wake up....In his own words, President Obama said "We are 5 days away from fundamentally transforming America." Is this his transformation?

If you make any money, the government shoves you in the creek once a year with it in your pockets, and all that don't get wet you can keep~Will Rogers



Good old Mr. Rogers. Guess he never heard of WATERPROOF pants :)

But yeah, I agree with your answer, but not for the biased crazed reasoning you give. Actually, several natural disasters striking the U.S. at once, or nearly at once will cripple the entire country and China will come calling on our shores....but meh...whatever suits your fancy :)
MarySM
Posted: Saturday, March 27, 2010 8:56:43 AM

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Of course, Drew is right. Just look at the countries that have totally failed because they implemented some form of universal health care:
Austria
Belgium
Canada
Denmark
France
Germany
Greece
Iceland
Ireland
Italy
Luxembourg
Netherland
Norway
Portugal
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
Turkey
United Kingdom
Oh wait! Most of these countries are doing just fine. In fact most have weathered the world-wide recession better than the USA!
Antler
Posted: Saturday, March 27, 2010 9:12:15 AM

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Again, more non-sequiturs. Drew is posting numbers regarding the deficit, and the "health care" reform bill is only part of that deficit.

He did not even mention "health care" reform, in fact he spoke of natural disasters and the like.

As an outsider to your Partisan ways, on both sides, I think the Democrats have more than their share of kneejerks.

You Democrats and Republicans are killing us all by not paying attention to the "bipartisan" things they are planning to pass. Spend a little time focusing on the things they agree on and you will see, if you are capable of leaving your respective cages... d'oh!

rbn,

I really hope you are right about the Vatican.. I hope Africa, the only continent where RC is growing, wakes up to what they are getting into.
Jyrkkä Jätkä
Posted: Saturday, March 27, 2010 9:32:13 AM

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Add Finland to your list, MarySM.
Maggie
Posted: Saturday, March 27, 2010 10:10:57 AM

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TL Hobs wrote:
...and OMG! Obama is black! And he is in the White House! And the sky is falling! And $arah Palin is making big bucks! And, John McCain is getting daffy! And, we can't have that!



Why do many on the left feel a need to use the 'race card' whenever a conservative disagrees with a minority? Probably because you don't really have a good answer to the question presented.

The issue of putting this nation into much greater debt is a valid one. And you're also saying that because Bush spent a trillion, it's now OK for this administration to spend 10 trillion?
Do the math. This economic plan is a disaster. And that would be true if this president were black, white, or beige.
TazMage
Posted: Saturday, March 27, 2010 10:52:38 AM
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Antler wrote:
Again, more non-sequiturs. Drew is posting numbers regarding the deficit, and the "health care" reform bill is only part of that deficit.

He did not even mention "health care" reform, in fact he spoke of natural disasters and the like.



My good sir! Didst thou even read his post? Me thinks not! As Drew "in fact" only spoke of the $$BLING$$ that our country is spending on an daily basis!

Perhaps you read MY previous post and was so taken by the truth that you gave Drew credit for which I was due, eh?

P.S. And MarySM, please add Cuba to yon list also, danke!
martyg
Posted: Saturday, March 27, 2010 10:53:29 AM
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@marysm,

suggest you do a little math. why not add up how much extra money all those countries you listed pay for their gasoline and then give the usa credit for the difference.

just imagine paying between $5 to $8 more per gallon as the europeans do. wanna talk about civil unrest.

a huge portion of gas costs are government taxes. raising the price of gas upward could probably solve the health care problem, or at least a large portion.
Isaac Samuel
Posted: Saturday, March 27, 2010 11:27:20 AM

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When you exceed your credit limit and unable to pay back,you claim bankruptcy and your bank carries it in their books as "Troubled Assets". When troubled assets start piling up, the bank seeks relief from the Government(TARP)and the Govt. bails them out.

When a country overspends,it floats treasury bonds and swaps them with creditors.That is exactly what we have done with China.And,when China is not able to meet its obligation to its creditors, and is unable to swap its troubled assets(our treasury bonds),its going to go belly up.

That won't happen because We have earned the status of "good standing" in the world that no other countries even bother to challenge our credit worthiness——because they do not have the yard stick to measure us.We are the ones who keep calling afoul.

we still remain the trend setters, the country of choice for many immigrants and the prime-movers of the economy around the world.If we fail, the whole world fails with us and nobody can tell the difference!

The success and failure of any President in office is predicated on interpretations——good or bad. Our country is a gravy train regardless of who drives it. The Republicans can't wait to get on it.

Seeker
Posted: Saturday, March 27, 2010 12:58:23 PM
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You've got my vote TL. As they say on other forums "fanned."
Cass
Posted: Saturday, March 27, 2010 1:21:06 PM

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Congratulations, Drew. You used the correct forum! Too bad you didn't put much thought into your post. I hope you read what the other posters have to say so that you will have something to think about. This country has bounced back before and will do so again. There was an intersting article in the March 1st edition of TIME magazine that explained why legislation is in the frozen state it is. I strongly urge you to read it. Do you actually read the other posts, I wonder? I never see a response from you.
Geeman
Posted: Saturday, March 27, 2010 2:22:59 PM

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Total Global Military Annual Spending is about $1.5 to $1.6 trillion.
U.S. Military spending for 2010: $880 billion.

Just in case anyone is wondering the next countries: France is #2 at about $75 billiion. Britain is 3rd: $70 billion. China spends about $60 billion. Germany $47 billion. Japan $43 billion. Russia $41 billion.

These numbers depend on how one does the accounting, but still I think the difference is pretty clear. Does the healthcare bill really stack up to the fact that we have a dozen super-carrier groups?

Regarding the spending on healthcare:

According to the Congressional Budget Office, the current healthcare program will reduce the deficit by $138 billion over the first decade but it will decrease it by $1.2 trillion in the second decade. Those costs are mostly due to start up and the fact that the benefits don't really kick in on such a project for a while. So, if you're plannig on being around in 10 years (which is actually more likely now that we have a healthcare program...) then it's a cost effective measure. If you're off to Costa Rica, though, then you'll want to come back around 2017-9 which is about the break even point.
TL Hobs
Posted: Saturday, March 27, 2010 4:21:35 PM

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OK, maybe my response was a little over the top. I feel I should explain it.

First of all, go the the Congressional Budget Office web site and read the summary for yourself. I copied the following from there:

"Beyond the 10-year projection period, growth of spending for Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security will speed up from its already rapid rate. To keep federal deficits and debt from reaching levels that would substantially harm the economy, lawmakers would have to significantly increase revenues, decrease projected spending, or enact some combination of the two."

Nothing there about failure, collapse of civilization or the government. Regardless of the sky-is-falling cries, we are financially sound. I am not an economist, but I have lived long enough to have seen cycles in the economy go up and down enough times to know that this is another one.

Secondly, I feel it is intentionally aimed at a black President. I heard squawkers cry that they were disturbed "at the idea" of a black man in the White House. Like they did to Jimmy Carter, they can control the economy to ensure he won't be reelected.

Our current economic situation was brought about by greedy people who had 8 years to stuff their pockets with tax money and little or no oversight, in the name of deregulation and "trickle down" economics. Yeah, well I can feel it trickling down my leg. The Bush/Cheney regime squandered America's prosperity and good name and left office in a shambles, only to take glee in the fact that they made it as difficult as possible for a Democrat successor, at the expense of the nation's working class.

Third, I am a true American. Seven of my ancestors fought in the Revolutionary War and someone in my family has participated in every conflict since to defend this country, right or wrong, against all enemies. Among them, one was in the 16th and 17th US Congress, one was a Governor, one was a General of the Army, two were in the State legislature and currently, my sister is a State Representative. My brother served 30 years active duty in the Army, including 2 tours in Korea and 4 tours in Vietnam as a pilot, my father served 7 years before, during and after WWII as an officer in the US Navy, and I served 7 years active duty during the Cold War and Vietnam in the US Navy. My family *earned* the right to call ourselves Americans and have served the country with our sweat and blood. My patriotism goes far beyond waving a plastic flag from Wal Mart.

As a result, I bristle when I hear someone cheer the demise of our country. We aren't perfect, we don't do the right thing at all times, but we do a lot of the right things a lot of the time. Ask any country who has benefited from US aid.

I claim that we make mistakes because we have a system of government that allows us to. That same system allows us to make corrections, too. That is what makes it work. When Newt Gringrich called for a Republican majority in 1994 to take over government and declared that his goal is to "make it permanent" then I take that as the intent of the GOP to take away the ability to change. If that happens, the only recourse to affect a change is revolution. Nobody should want that.

To call for the collapse of our government is sedition. It is illegal to strive to overthrow our government. It is illegal to advocate it. When I sense that is what is happening, I get riled up big time. If you don't like what is happening, get involved and use the system to change it, but don't simply sit on the sidelines and throw rocks at it and cheer for its demise.

Rush Limbaugh, $arah Palin, Glen Beck, Karl Rove, and their ilk are such people and they are worst because they are irresponsibly affecting the sentiments of others to do the same. They would prefer to tear this country down without offering a positive solution. Evidently, the GOP would, too. They should all be flushed down the same toilet. Strong arm tactics, lies, deceit and shenanigans are uncalled for.

Antler
Posted: Saturday, March 27, 2010 4:32:56 PM

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TZMage,

You are right about the fact that I got the two posts confused, but it is still the case that there is no shortage of kneejerking on both sides of the gap, in spite of the fact that you are all seemingly ignoring the things these creeps are doing in total agreement. And it is still the case that TL injected all sorts of non-sequiturs and cheap politics, as did Mary. So whatever, all it does is strengthen the case.

As far as any honesty happening about the cost of the new -health (read:insurance) reform- package that give big pharma more control over our un-health care system, there is very little happening on either side of the gap. Even the politicians who are behind it say it is deficit neutral, even though for some reason there are people saying it reduces the deficit.. I mean, the biggest scammers in the country say it is neutral, whay would some sheep go as far as say it will reduce the deficit? Here is a link to an article that outlines the costs and the reforms very well, and puts to rest the idea that there is anything neutral about about this fiscally. It costs money.. --THINGS COST MONEY, YOU ARE GOING TO PAY FOR ANY SERVICE YOU USE-- and of course it is going to cost more than they say:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/health/chi-health-consumer,0,2672277,full.story

Now here is an article outlining the fiscal failure of the system that the -health(read:insurance)reform- bill was based on, a system designed by Mitt Romney.. So Democrats... Defend Mitt Romney for the rest of your lives, Republicans, pretend there is anything left-wing about this for the rest of your lives.. it is an authoritarian law that enforces compliance with external corporate entities , enforced by the IRS, a private entity:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704094104575144372942933394.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADSecond

Quote:
"The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge natural to party dissention, which in different ages & countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders & miseries, which result, gradually incline the minds of men to seek security & repose in the absolute power of an Individual: and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of Public Liberty."
— George Washington, September 19, 1796
http://www.thirty-thousand.org/pages/Baneful_Parties.htm

Quote:

“I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies...The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs." -Thomas Jefferson


Antler
Posted: Saturday, March 27, 2010 4:37:20 PM

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Quote:

Rush Limbaugh, $arah Palin, Glen Beck, Karl Rove, and their ilk are such people and they are worst because they are irresponsibly affecting the sentiments of others to do the same. They would prefer to tear this country down without offering a positive solution. Evidently, the GOP would, too. They should all be flushed down the same toilet. Strong arm tactics, lies, deceit and shenanigans are uncalled for.


And so is projecting racism on anyone who criticize the government. it is --exactly-- the same thing that FOX news does.. just throw people off the course by claiming things that are either false or cannot be proved.
AnthA1G
Posted: Saturday, March 27, 2010 5:28:14 PM

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Geeman wrote:
Total Global Military Annual Spending is about $1.5 to $1.6 trillion.
U.S. Military spending for 2010: $880 billion.

Just in case anyone is wondering the next countries: France is #2 at about $75 billiion. Britain is 3rd: $70 billion. China spends about $60 billion. Germany $47 billion. Japan $43 billion. Russia $41 billion.

These numbers depend on how one does the accounting, but still I think the difference is pretty clear. Does the healthcare bill really stack up to the fact that we have a dozen super-carrier groups?

Regarding the spending on healthcare:

According to the Congressional Budget Office, the current healthcare program will reduce the deficit by $138 billion over the first decade but it will decrease it by $1.2 trillion in the second decade. Those costs are mostly due to start up and the fact that the benefits don't really kick in on such a project for a while. So, if you're plannig on being around in 10 years (which is actually more likely now that we have a healthcare program...) then it's a cost effective measure. If you're off to Costa Rica, though, then you'll want to come back around 2017-9 which is about the break even point.


This is why your posts keep calling for me to read them! It couldn't have been said better, G!

TL Hobs, Well said.
Seeker
Posted: Saturday, March 27, 2010 6:11:09 PM
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Can I vote for TL twice?
oxymoron
Posted: Saturday, March 27, 2010 8:09:39 PM

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Geeman TL Hobs
Eloquently put, think I said much the same in a previous post, as I said at the time, just an onlookers view. It would seem to be the general concencus here, for sure.
TL Hobs
Posted: Saturday, March 27, 2010 9:00:33 PM

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Antler wrote:


And so is projecting racism on anyone who criticize the government. it is --exactly-- the same thing that FOX news does.. just throw people off the course by claiming things that are either false or cannot be proved.


When 100% of all GOP Senators vote against any initiative or appointment put forth by this President, then what else can it be, if not racism? Never in the history of the US has any President been confronted with such staunch opposition. Even Franklin Roosevelt did not have to deal with a contentious political party as had this President.

Please criticize government. Write letters to your elected officials. Show up at the polls for every election, even the small ones. But, do so honestly and with integrity. Cite your sources. Do not claim off handily that "a CBO report claims..." without citing WHICH report. Sarah Palin loves to use false claims about "death squads" that are blatantly false. Exercise your citizenship, but do not confuse that with your right to stand at the door of Congress and shout names at those who go through them. Intimidation worked well for Hitler. We learned what not to do from that. Stand up for what you believe and show respect for those who disagree with you.

I am not claiming anything that is false or cannot be proven. People who do really piss me off and I cannot sit silent about it without disputing it. Enough is too much.


Antler
Posted: Saturday, March 27, 2010 10:25:37 PM

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More non-sequiturs, all day long!!

EVERYONE on here is citing the sources!! From both sides of the issue!!

No one on here is Sarah Palin! You are criticizing the GOP and their inept "methods".

We are trying to have a discussion, and you are claiming everyone who disagrees with YOU is a racist, and Sarah Palin.

=="Cite your sources."== "Stand up for what you believe and show respect for those who disagree with you."

You make no sense.. You are the one flaming people, and you are the one not citing any sources.

There are no sources to any links or any statistics in any of your posts. You are describing yourSELF.

There is no question that there are racists in the United States.. There is absolutely no question that they are voting for Republicans, and I feel sorry for the abandoned, honestly concerned Republicans who are being neglected by their Party.. But I feel sorry about your lack of objectivity, and your lack of real interest, and your desire to maintain this ridiculous polarization. You are as reactionary as any tea party knucklehead, but from a different perspective.

You are not helping your cause...

Cass
Posted: Saturday, March 27, 2010 10:32:15 PM

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TL; GMan - so well expressed.
TL Hobs
Posted: Saturday, March 27, 2010 10:32:50 PM

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Antler wrote:

We are trying to have a discussion, and you are claiming everyone who disagrees with YOU is a racist, and Sarah Palin.


No, not everyone can be $arah Palin.
Galad
Posted: Saturday, March 27, 2010 10:35:54 PM

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Seeker wrote:
Can I vote for TL twice?


As the old saying goes, "vote early and often".
Maggie
Posted: Sunday, March 28, 2010 12:17:08 AM

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Antler wrote:


There is no question that there are racists in the United States.. There is absolutely no question that they are voting for Republicans, and I feel sorry for the abandoned, honestly concerned Republicans who are being neglected by their Party.. But I feel sorry about your lack of objectivity, and your lack of real interest, and your desire to maintain this ridiculous polarization. You are as reactionary as any tea party knucklehead, but from a different perspective.

You are not helping your cause...



Are you suggesting that NO ONE who votes a Democratic ticket is a racist?

Antler
Posted: Sunday, March 28, 2010 1:34:24 AM

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-
Why don't you read my post and see if that is what I wrote?

I guess it does not matter, no one else on this thread is reading anything, very few of them present any facts, they just throw accusations around like Left Wing Limbaughs.. no facts necessary, just call everyone racist.. people you don't even know, people who have had death threats from racist white cops for exposing torture, people who have gone to jail to end wars and for human rights.. no big deal.

If we dare to discuss the numbers about the insurance reform bill, we are called racists by retarded people, in the same way Tea Party Clowns throw hate speech.

Cool, be proud of yourselves. No substance, just rhetoric.

Antler
Posted: Sunday, March 28, 2010 1:41:44 AM

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I saw this on SNL tonight and I thought of TL, exchange the word "sing" with the word "think".

"Don't make me think, no, no, don't make me think."

http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/clips/1920s-party/1198006/

--

--
Tovarish
Posted: Sunday, March 28, 2010 6:16:50 AM

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Wooo Hooo, Australia doesn't get a mention on any of the above lists.

Having said that, we have played an active roll in Iraq and Afghanistan, relative to our population.
We also have a free health care system, Medicare.

I have noticed in Australian politics, a party that has been in power for a prolonged period of time is quite often a very poor and in-affective Opposition Party.

Being a watcher from afar on US politics, my humble comments are,

How can a Nation that overwhelmingly supported President Obama, turn on him so quickly?.

I watched the Inaugural Ball and I felt it was like hero worship.

Does the Republican Party realise they LOST the election?

Get over it, and try being an Opposition Party to be dealt with.

All I can see is Bitching.

By the way I am not a Leftist Voter.



Epiphileon
Posted: Sunday, March 28, 2010 8:09:07 AM

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Tovarish wrote:

How can a Nation that overwhelmingly supported President Obama, turn on him so quickly?.

People tend to me timetards, totally discounting the responsibility of the past for present circumstances.
People who are distressed find it much easier to be haters than hopers.
Critical thinking requires... thinking.
I too would demand of the Obama bashers, Where were you during the Bush administration????
Last point have you ever heard of two books of the same title "A Nation of Sheep?" One was written in 1961 by William Lederer, the other was written recently by a libertarian Judge, Andrew P. Napolitano and apparantly "frankly discusses how the federal government has circumvented the Constitution and is systematically dismantling the rights and freedoms that are the foundation of American democracy. He challenges Americans to recognize that they are being led down a very dangerous path and that the cost of following without challenge is the loss of the basic freedoms that facilitate our pursuit of happiness and that define us as a nation."(from the review on Amazon)
PUBLISHED IN 2007!!! Gee what administrations policies could he be talking about.
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