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liver transplant Options
CricketMan79
Posted: Friday, March 12, 2010 1:59:53 AM

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Joined: 3/27/2009
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Location: Australia
Hi All

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/was-250000-loan-to-dying-liver-transplant-woman-claire-murray-24/story-e6frg13u-1225836606689

Would like peoples opinion on this
A girl from Perth received a liver transplant but went back onto drugs and now needs another one
Dr's have refused to place her on the list again. She is flying overseas to make it happen
My opinion is if your given the gift of life especially if you have kids then you make the most of it. There are many others on the waiting list because there is a shortage of donar organs here. I agree with the Dr's you cant push ahead of anyone waiting, you had your chance and you blew it

Cheers!
celiboncanavari
Posted: Friday, March 12, 2010 3:02:32 AM

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Joined: 2/25/2010
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An aweful decision! Think As your life is all about your choices she has made her choice to lose the chance to live. However you cannot say "You deserve to die." It's so brutal. You cannot strike a happy medium. Either Pure Reason or Pure Sentiment...
CricketMan79
Posted: Friday, March 12, 2010 4:20:06 AM

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Location: Australia
I agree its a brutal thing and It wasnt meant to come across as such but there are many people on the waiting list and unfortunatly she made a bad judgement
EM777
Posted: Friday, March 12, 2010 8:35:55 AM

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..."forgiveness..."..

we would surely want others to forgive us our wrongdoings as we would forgive another..

I see it this way. This is a soul, like the rest of us. Making errors and needing help.

EVERYONE deserves to be on the list.

Unfortunately, in this world, economics is the basic bottom line, of that list.
MarySM
Posted: Friday, March 12, 2010 9:13:15 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

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I have been on both sides of organ donation as I lost a nephew who became a donor and my sister’s life was saved through a donated heart.

At the time of my healthy 24 year old nephew’s accidental death from a head injury, I became jaded toward organ donation. It really is an unpleasant thing and although all of us felt it to be the moral thing the logistics are seldom discussed. First, they must keep the deceased on artificial life support so that “harvesting” of the organs can be done. Tissue is removed for testing and matching. Then “non-essential” bone, tissue, retinas, are removed and then organs such as kidneys and liver. The last organs removed are the heart and lungs and then the body is turned over to the funeral home. This takes many hours and in our case over a day and it was difficult for all of us. Then the bills started coming in and the family was incorrectly charged for the “harvesting time” which should be paid for through the organ donation program. At that time, I decided I would not donate any organs upon my death.

Less than four years later, my healthy 54 year old sister (not the sister that lost her son) started having heart attacks. We were told, right before Thanksgiving, that she had so much heart damage that she had 3-5 days to live unless a donor heart was found. A donor heart was found and transplanted. My sister (now 71 years old) is doing very well and enjoying life and I am enjoying having her in my life.

Karma gets you every time. I am, once again, an organ donor. If this young woman gets another liver perhaps she will turn her life around. I doubt that she would be first on the list, but sometimes they are unable to find a good match for a donated liver and, rather that allowing it to be wasted, they will do a second transplant on a patient who is otherwise healthy.
Susie
Posted: Friday, March 12, 2010 9:36:33 AM

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I have to say that if you receive a transplant, that IS your second chance. If you so choose to not respect your new opportunity, so be it, but there are no third chances.

I do not play god, wish anyone harm or death, I think that there are plenty of other people that would cherish and respect a second chance at life and who would seem better deserving of the organ.

BTW, I am a human services specialist and can tell you that I have learned over time that there are plenty of people who have overcome their addictions, but, on the same hand just as many fall back into the addiction and can never fully beat it. This may be the case for this girl and if so, even a new liver will not keep her around long. Sad to say.
Raparee
Posted: Friday, March 12, 2010 9:49:39 AM

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I kind of have to agree with Susie. This lady had a second chance and while it sucks that she blew it, she made that choice. Addiction is vicious and it nearly killed her once. It really boils down to what you want more - the addiction or that second chance. In her case, she lost out to the addiction.

While I have no problem with her going back on the list, she should give way to those who are getting their second chance. She'll be far down on the list as this is her third chance by her own fault, not from the transplant just failing. If they have not-perfect-but-adequate organs (meaning, they have some sort of damage, but nothing major), she could get that.

There are generally so few transplants available for people that they really do try to make the best decisions as to who needs it first and who is the best candidate. Someone who has repeatedly caused themselves harm is not a great candidate and they would rather give it to someone who will appreciate it and treat the gift as what it is.
amedtychick
Posted: Friday, March 12, 2010 10:52:09 AM
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I believe that if it was a situation where the transplanted liver was rejected, then she should be put back on the list, but since after the original transplant she made a CONSCIOUS DECISION to go back on drugs that she should NOT be eligible to receive another transplant.
NinjaMonkee
Posted: Friday, March 12, 2010 11:02:56 AM

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Joined: 7/17/2009
Posts: 281
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Location: CA. USA
CricketMan79 wrote:
Hi All

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/was-250000-loan-to-dying-liver-transplant-woman-claire-murray-24/story-e6frg13u-1225836606689

Would like peoples opinion on this
A girl from Perth received a liver transplant but went back onto drugs and now needs another one
Dr's have refused to place her on the list again. She is flying overseas to make it happen
My opinion is if your given the gift of life especially if you have kids then you make the most of it. There are many others on the waiting list because there is a shortage of donar organs here. I agree with the Dr's you cant push ahead of anyone waiting, you had your chance and you blew it

Cheers!


I do agree, but if the patient wants to spend the money to go oversees and have the transplant I say more power to them for taking the inititive when the Dr's here deny her.
nooblet
Posted: Friday, March 12, 2010 12:49:42 PM

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I pretty much agree with the people here saying she blew her chance. If almost dying the first time wasn't enough to get her act together, is another liver going to do that to her? It is possible, but highly improbable. It would be better if they give the liver to someone who is going to be more responsible about their health and get more mileage out of it, in my humble opinion.

I do respect that she is at least trying for another transplant, but I don't think she should be put in front of others who HAVEN'T even gotten their second chance and need it just as badly as she does. As others have said, if her organ had been rejected it would have been a different situation, but she consciously chose to go down the exact same path that ruined her liver in the first place.

Were I her, I would start making peace with everyone I know, and let them know how important they are to me and how much they've impacted my life.
RuthP
Posted: Friday, March 12, 2010 1:31:49 PM

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In large measure, I agree with most of the comments here, but I would like to add a little nuance.

What the recipient did is not really a moral issue. Addiction is addiction and is controlling. Why some are able to recover on their own, others with treatment and still others destined to never manage complete recovery or control is not known. I suspect the stress of liver failure, risk of dying and the subsequent transplantation and need to manage a relatively complicated medical regimen may well have made it more difficult for her to maintain. I am sorry for her.

Donated organ are, however, a rare resource in relation to the number of people waiting to receive one. Ethically, it is wrong to squander these gifts. Therefore, in great sadness for the young woman, she should receive another liver only if

1. There is a potential donor liver with no other possible match.

And

2. She has completed a period of sobriety and committed to maintaining sobriety. (No guarantee I understand, but important nonetheless.)

I add the latter requirement, because the qualification and recovery of an organ offered for donation is costly, as is transplantation, as is the subsequent medical care of the recipient. It is unfair to squander resources which could be used to to support other donations, transplantations, and recipient care, that would save other lives and keep a precious gift working.
nooblet
Posted: Friday, March 12, 2010 3:14:01 PM

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That seems very fair, Ruth. I agree with that if no one else can use (hence she shouldn't be place in front of others who can use it, since she already got one), and ONLY if she really stays sober otherwise it is just wasting resources.

I understand how addiction works, but it is still a matter of will. I know that were my life at stake and I had to completely quit doing something, I would seriously take it under consideration. Some things in my life mean so much to me that I would not find life worth living without them, and that is really where choice comes into play. I have known several addicts who have broken their own addictions, and every single one of them did not need any treatment and it was because they were faced with a life altering experience (in some cases, near-death experiences). If your life is at stake and you can't get motivated enough to stop the unhealthy habit that got you into that situation (with help if necessary), chances are that being faced with that situation a second time is not going to change that. If I were in her position, I would honestly be disappointed in myself, but I would accept it as the consequence of my own actions. This is the way I have always been regarding punishment for something I know I did wrong.
Cass
Posted: Saturday, March 13, 2010 2:54:26 PM

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Joined: 12/19/2009
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There's a small boy on the waiting list and if I were his mother I would have no pity for that woman. My small, undersized, bleeding liberal heart says she should go to the back of the list and take her chances. She's 24 years old and has two kids, when was she ever thinking of them. I know about addiction first hand and she was using the hard stuff. If she is lucky a liver may come along that is only compatible with her body. Also, I think the Australian government is being very generous; I'm not sure this country would do as much for one of its' citizens. That's a lot of money for this family to have to pay back and they may not be able to. I know this comes of as hard - most of you have posted very kind and forgiving words for this young lady - but dying because a transplant wasn't available happens to a lot of people who never had a chance and it's not fair because she did.
thraley01
Posted: Sunday, March 14, 2010 11:40:10 AM

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Its just right that the doctor refuse her, she didn't value what was given to her, if I was there I will also do the same thing, there are more people who are more deserving than her.
Lady Penelope
Posted: Sunday, March 14, 2010 7:28:25 PM

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Where was her respect for the person that had to die so that she could have a second chance, that life was not taken into account when she went back to drugs.I think the person that died would have LOVED a second chance.
Tovarish
Posted: Sunday, March 14, 2010 9:20:56 PM

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This is an awfully sad situation. The story was on Sixty Minutes last night.
This young women seems to come from a very loving family, who have done everything in their power to keep her alive.
Wouldn't we all?

Approach the Minister, who offers a $250,000 Government loan.

Both her Mother and her Aunt have offered to donate part of their livers to her.
She is to be operated on in Singapore on Wednesday.

How many other patients are out there who could get more extensive medical attention over seas?

Has this Minister set a precedent?
CricketMan79
Posted: Thursday, April 1, 2010 2:13:13 AM

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Location: Australia
RuthP
Posted: Thursday, April 1, 2010 2:29:17 PM

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Location: Drain, Oregon, United States
CricketMan79,

Thank you so much for the update. This is news we might not usually get in the U.S., so the follow-up is appreciated.

My heart goes out to the family. She was obviously a much-loved child and niece, and their grief will not be less just because she had problems in life.

On the original topic, I will expand to say I find the second transplant an easier idea to accept with family donation than with use of a donor liver without connection to the family.

This does show, however, what I mentioned before about the use of resources. A great deal of resources: money, surgeon and hospital staff time, supplies, medications, were used in the course of this transplant and now are unavailable for use with another.

These are difficult issues, with no absolutely clear-cut right and wrong. A very good discussion. Thanks again!
Raparee
Posted: Thursday, April 1, 2010 2:43:04 PM

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That is very sad to hear; thank you for the update though.

I agree with RuthP. It is easier to accept the idea of a family member donating part of an organ in this particular set of circumstances. For that, we have no business saying anything if a family member wishes to donate. They know the circumstances of the family better than anyone, so long as they are a willing member and understand it (ie., not a child).
Tovarish
Posted: Thursday, April 1, 2010 7:48:56 PM

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Location: Booligal, New South Wales, Australia
So very sad, I do hope that her Aunt is OK.

What terrible, terrible things drugs are. There is so very much more to life, starting with her two little children and a loving family.

Poor girl has paid the ultimate price.
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