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Such democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal... Options
Daemon
Posted: Friday, November 21, 2014 12:00:00 AM
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Such democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths.

James Madison (1751-1836)
Trivium_Discipulus
Posted: Friday, November 21, 2014 12:32:17 AM
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Daemon wrote:
Such democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths.

James Madison (1751-1836)


That's why America was made into a Republic that had democratic elections, NOT democratic tyranny.

Alas, a democratic republic requires and educated, NOT SCHOOLED, populace, hence, the Republic was overthrown a looooooong time ago - and most schooled people have no idea...

The best way to control the opposition is to finance it. Birds of prey have two wings; the left wing & right wing.
JUSTIN Excellence
Posted: Friday, November 21, 2014 1:04:27 AM

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Democracy is susceptible to being led astray by having scapegoats paraded in front of the electorate. Get the rich, the greedy, the criminals, the stupid leader and so on ad nauseam.
~ Chapter House Dune ( Frank Herbert )







über laboratorium dauernd zur Naturtreue
L.Rai
Posted: Friday, November 21, 2014 2:09:12 AM

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That's why America was made into a Republic that had democratic elections, NOT democratic tyranny.

Alas, a democratic republic requires and educated, NOT SCHOOLED, populace, hence, the Republic was overthrown a looooooong time ago - and most schooled people have no idea...[/quote]

Dear TD:

Kudos! Applause I think this is the first post I've seen from you that was short, sweet, and made a point without using the term MONOPOLY! I am so proud of you Dancing

"Your life matters more than you will ever know, so live it well"
excaelis
Posted: Friday, November 21, 2014 2:17:58 AM

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I always like to play the dog in Monopoly.

( though of course we all know the top hat and battleship really control everything...)

Sanity is not statistical
Vit Babenco
Posted: Friday, November 21, 2014 2:46:37 AM

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I know him only as the Madison Square Gardens.
pedro
Posted: Friday, November 21, 2014 4:36:16 AM

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“From this view of the subject it may be concluded that a pure democracy, by which I mean a society consisting of a small number of citizens, who assemble and administer the government in person, can admit of no cure for the mischiefs of faction. A common passion or interest will, in almost every case, be felt by a majority of the whole; a communication and concert result from the form of government itself; and there is nothing to check the inducements to sacrifice the weaker party or an obnoxious individual. Hence it is that such democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths. Theoretic politicians, who have patronized this species of government, have erroneously supposed that by reducing mankind to a perfect equality in their political rights, they would, at the same time, be perfectly equalized and assimilated in their possessions, their opinions, and their passions.”
― James Madison, Federalist Papers Nos. 10 and 51

All good ideas arrive by chance- Max Ernst
TB Turtle
Posted: Friday, November 21, 2014 6:43:26 AM

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I also agree with Trivium. Our politicians on the Hill are doing all the can to turn us into a Democracy. We are a Republic and need to clean out the nest with every election.

Library of America have quite a few books in their collection of the Founders letters to one another, their diaries and family letters that really tell the story of America's Founding.
FounDit
Posted: Friday, November 21, 2014 9:52:54 AM

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Thanks for the context, Pedro.
It's been years since I read the Federalist Papers, but they are a fascinating read, once you get used to the way they write. The English they used, is much more formal than that we use today.

It would be wonderful if the Federalist Papers were written in modern language today, and they may well have been already, and I'm just unaware of it, but in today's polarized environment, I couldn't help but be wary of the effort.


We should look to the past to learn from it, not destroy our future because of it — FounDit
monamagda
Posted: Friday, November 21, 2014 9:56:55 AM

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Not only liberals, but also many conservatives have come to accept and promote the concept of a "democracy," even though the founders of the United States rejected that form of government as "mobocracy." James Madison in FEDERALIST PAPERS Number 10 wrote that "Democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths." Rather than a "democracy," which is "a nation of men" in which the majority will on any given issue on any given day becomes the rule, the founders determined that the United States would be a Constitutional Republic, which is a "nation of laws" based upon a predetermined set of principles (e.g., majority rule, but with protection of minority rights) explicitly set forth in a Constitution under which the people agreed to live.


http://www.newswithviews.com/Cuddy/dennis273.htm
Bully_rus
Posted: Friday, November 21, 2014 9:59:04 AM
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Nowadays as ever was and will be: dysfunctional authority leads to soul-searching of one's roots... Worthy of note banknote.

IrvinaWA
Posted: Friday, November 21, 2014 10:12:51 AM

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I, too, went to the source and started reading the Federalist #10. I was woefully 'schooled' and not 'educated' in my youth. Never have read the Federalist papers. I am fascinated by what I read. Seems so very, very relevant for today. But we still have my favorite saying in major effect: Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. By the very nature of government, those who want 'power over' will be the ones who run for office and end up in power. Those who have a live & let live attitude do not seek power over other. Their liberties end up in jeopardy.
striker
Posted: Friday, November 21, 2014 10:58:36 AM
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our democracy is being threatening everyday by our own government
Gary98
Posted: Friday, November 21, 2014 11:10:52 AM

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Daemon wrote:
Such democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths.

James Madison (1751-1836)


That is why we want to export democracy, and we have endless supply of it.
Barnacle Barney Bill
Posted: Friday, November 21, 2014 2:55:03 PM

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He liked politics.
Gezbez1
Posted: Friday, November 21, 2014 2:56:32 PM

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Eh? I've read this 4 times now and I still can't grasp it.
Have you seen the John Adams movie starring Paul Giammati? I was captivated by the James Madison character (his words, character, actions).
jenny klimsza
Posted: Friday, November 21, 2014 4:21:48 PM

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What we call a democracy....and what democracy is; two different things. Our country seems to be run by bumpkins, and who knows how they were schooled or educated...for real. For most of the elected officials, the power of govt. is what they want, the responsibility of govt. they do not understand.....and they are supposed to represent all constituents, not just their party and their ideas.
We have too much red tape and not enough scissors.Shame on you
jenny klimsza
Posted: Friday, November 21, 2014 4:22:56 PM

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[quote=jenny klimsza]What we call a democracy....and what democracy is; two different things. Our country seems to be run by bumpkins, and who knows how they were schooled or educated...for real. For most of the elected officials, the power of govt. is what they want, the responsibility of govt. they do not understand.....and they are supposed to represent all constituents, not just their party and their ideas.
We have too much red tape and not enough scissors.Shame on you

Hey hey what we need is more power to the people.
FounDit
Posted: Friday, November 21, 2014 5:03:13 PM

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jenny klimsza wrote:
What we call a democracy....and what democracy is; two different things. Our country seems to be run by bumpkins, and who knows how they were schooled or educated...for real. For most of the elected officials, the power of govt. is what they want, the responsibility of govt. they do not understand.....and they are supposed to represent all constituents, not just their party and their ideas.
We have too much red tape and not enough scissors.Shame on you


This is why our Government was set up in 3 branches to act as checks and balances on power. The founders knew that power always corrupts, so it was to be limited.

This is the argument going on today between the President and Congress. Many think the President is over-reaching his authority, trying to take power that doesn't belong to him. It will be interesting to see how it works out.


We should look to the past to learn from it, not destroy our future because of it — FounDit
FounDit
Posted: Friday, November 21, 2014 5:20:44 PM

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Gezbez1 wrote:
Eh? I've read this 4 times now and I still can't grasp it.
Have you seen the John Adams movie starring Paul Giammati? I was captivated by the James Madison character (his words, character, actions).


It can be difficult to understand. I'll try to put it in today's language for you.


“From this view of Democracy, it may be concluded that a pure democracy, that is, a small number of citizens, who assemble and administer the government in person, can find no cure for the problems of group desires.

A common passion or interest shared by a large group will, in almost every case, become the main idea; this will become the idea of the government itself; and there is nothing to stop the larger group from abusing, or ignoring, the weaker group, or individual.

Because of this, such democracies have always been filled with turbulence and contention; (they) have always been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and (they) have generally been short, and their end has been violent (usually through revolutions because a pure Democracy becomes mob rule).

Theoretical politicians, who promote this form of government (pure Democracy), have always made the mistake of thinking they can create perfect equality of rights for the people, and that the people would also be perfectly equal in their possessions, their opinions, and their passions. (These politicians ignore human nature)”
― James Madison, Federalist Papers Nos. 10 and 51

We should look to the past to learn from it, not destroy our future because of it — FounDit
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