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Tens of Thousands Protest in Hong Kong Options
Daemon
Posted: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 12:00:00 AM
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Tens of Thousands Protest in Hong Kong

Tens of thousands of pro-democracy demonstrators have taken to the streets in Hong Kong to protest Beijing's plan to vet candidates for the post of chief executive of Hong Kong in the 2017 elections. Since 1997, when Britain handed Hong Kong back to China, the chief executive has been selected by a 1,200-member election committee with pro-Beijing leanings. Last month, China agreed to allow direct elections in 2017, with the proviso that voters will only be able to choose from a list of pre-approved, almost undoubtedly pro-Beijing candidates. The protesters are demanding the freedom to choose their candidates. More...
ChristopherJohnson
Posted: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 1:54:27 AM

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I wonder, how can communist, one-party regimes, which are oppressive, authoritarian and totalitarian, still exist in the 21th century!
MechPebbles
Posted: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 2:04:05 AM

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ChristopherJohnson wrote:
I wonder, how can communist, one-party regimes, which are oppressive, authoritarian and totalitarian, still exist in the 21th century!


Many countries today have oppressive and authoritarian governments but they put on a show of being democratic.
Rudra Saikat
Posted: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 4:16:29 AM

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OPPRESSION IS NOT THE MONOPOLY OF THE COMMUNISTS. CLAWS AND FANGS OF OTHER POLITICAL SYSTEMS OFTEN COME OUT OF THEIR MONASTIC CLOAKS TO PERPETUATE THEIR INTERESTS.
TheParser
Posted: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 6:21:41 AM
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***** MY OPINION *****

Yes, China is a brutal dictatorship.

But -- to be fair -- it differs from other dictatorships in two ways:

1. It delivers the goods. That is, if you keep your mouth shut about politics, more and more Chinese can enjoy a very high standard of living. (Look at the misery in other dictatorships, such as Russia, Zimbabwe, etc.)

2. It does not have sham (dishonest) elections. In fact, it does NOT have elections!

a. Russia has "elections." And they are a farce. An insult!

b. At least the Chinese dictatorship does not insult the intelligence of its people by pretending to have elections.

3. The poor Hong Kongers. Did they think that China would ever let them have genuine democracy?
Well, at least Taiwan knows that it should NEVER, EVER believe what China says.

a. History is a funny thing. It can really astonish us.

i. It may take 100 years for China to become a democracy -- or it may happen tomorrow.



James
Tovarish
Posted: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 6:43:39 AM

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The protesters want to have a free and open election next year, without the candidates being vetted by the mainland first.
ellana
Posted: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 10:16:28 AM
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History under British rule has given Hong Kong a taste of the democratic process. They have prospered under this style of government. But I have to agree with others that democracy is sometimes/often hypocritical, a sham.
Gary98
Posted: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 10:17:32 AM

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Tovarish wrote:
The protesters want to have a free and open election next year, without the candidates being vetted by the mainland first.


They think they can have a totally free and open election like China thought they can march into Communism in ten years.

Many do not seem to know what is Communism at all, but they surely are scared shitless by it. They do not know where is Shangri-La but pretty sure it is somewhere in Tibet.
Gary98
Posted: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 10:33:04 AM

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ellana wrote:
History under British rule has given Hong Kong a taste of the democratic process. They have prospered under this style of government. But I have to agree with others that democracy is sometimes/often hypocritical, a sham.


People thought they have democracy under British rule until they have really looked at Hong Kong history. Which governor of Hong Kong under British was elected? Sir Murray MacLehose? Sir David Wilson? or Chris Patten? (BTW, why Chris Pattern is not knighted? does British blame him or losing Hong Kong to China or what?)

Every Chief Executive under China was elected, albeit from a vetted group.

I find it funny this time line in the article:

****
Hong Kong democracy timeline

1997: Hong Kong, a former British colony, is handed back to China under an 1984 agreement giving it "a high degree of autonomy, except in foreign and defence affairs" for 50 years
2004: China rules that its approval must be sought for changes to Hong Kong's election laws
June-July 2014: Pro-democracy activists hold an unofficial referendum on political reform and a large rally. This is followed by protests by pro-Beijing activists
31 August 2014: China says it will allow direct elections in 2017, but voters will only be able to choose from a list of pre-approved candidates. Activists stage protests
22 September 2014: Student groups launch a week-long boycott of classes in protest
2017: Direct elections for chief executive due to take place
2047: Expiry of current agreements
****
GabhSigenod
Posted: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 1:23:42 PM

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Wow! 10,000 demonstrators! I love it!
Robert Imgrat
Posted: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 2:37:41 PM

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ChristopherJohnson wrote:
I wonder, how can communist, one-party regimes, which are oppressive, authoritarian and totalitarian, still exist in the 21th century!

Yes, you can. Stalin was born in your country.
Robert Imgrat
Posted: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 2:42:00 PM

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ellana wrote:
History under British rule has given Hong Kong a taste of the democratic process. They have prospered under this style of government. But I have to agree with others that democracy is sometimes/often hypocritical, a sham.

You did forget that Hong Kong is a territory taken by force from the China in the 19th century by governments not striving for democracy in the past time being.
ellana
Posted: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 3:01:24 PM
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Robert, we can't undo history. Global connections have led people to view themselves, their communities with different eyes. Yes, mainland Chinese people enjoy a higher level of education, a higher standard of living but, they have to toe the line. And I have stated that living in a democratic world is not all that it professes to be. I lived in Hong Kong for two years prior to 1997, very much a 'colony' at that time, suffering acute anxiety at the thought of being re-integrated into China. The world continues to unfold...
striker
Posted: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 4:05:02 PM
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any agreement china does especially with the west is always problems
Fredric-frank Myers
Posted: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 6:26:56 PM

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I do believe that we have the internet to thank for the turmoil in Hong Kong and in other areas of the globe, thanks to the proliferation of knowledge and information circulating through the "air". It is obvious that all peoples would like, "a taste of the democratic process". Of course in America, the Supreme Court and the Republican party are attempting to do away with real Democracy in this country. Sad, very, very sad...
TheParser
Posted: Wednesday, October 1, 2014 4:57:36 AM
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Fredric-frank Myers wrote:
Of course in America, the Supreme Court and the Republican party are attempting to do away with real Democracy in this country.



Some people say that the Supreme Court and the Republican party are attempting to protect real democracy.

For example, some Southern states want to make sure that only qualified voters take part in elections.

Of course, the Democrats do not like that. Those unqualified voters are usually Democrats.



excaelis
Posted: Wednesday, October 1, 2014 5:16:05 AM

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Ignorance is not usually defined by political viewpoints, James. I'm sure there are as many Republican idiots are there are Democrat idiots.

Oh, and as a sidenote, some Southern states as recently as the sixties were firmly convinced that black people should not have votes at all. Nor any other constitutional rights and protections.

Not the best example with which to make your case, my friend.
TheParser
Posted: Wednesday, October 1, 2014 6:38:48 AM
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excaelis wrote:
I'm sure there are as many Republican idiots are there are Democrat idiots.




Most human beings, of course, are idiots. Just look at this world.


Back to the topic, though, fair-minded people agree that some ineligible voters are, in fact, voting. They include foreigners who are here "without permission" and American citizens who have committed certain violent crimes. Furthermore, some people vote more than once, and it's been shown that some dead people are on the voting rolls.

When those states try to stop such outrageous and undemocratic fraud, the Democrats scream "Racism!"

The only racism is on the part of those who scream "Racism!" (And that includes the lady who may be the next president of the United States of America.)

Tovarish
Posted: Wednesday, October 1, 2014 6:56:57 AM

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The only weapons being brandished by the protesters are umbrellas, they are so passive and innocent, I cant get the scenes of Tienanmen Square out of my mind.
pedro
Posted: Wednesday, October 1, 2014 7:04:04 AM

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Presumably they will have to go back to work some time soon.
Tovarish
Posted: Wednesday, October 1, 2014 7:11:52 AM

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Its a holiday, commemorating beginning of communism in China, I think Pedro.
Alice M Toaster
Posted: Wednesday, October 1, 2014 8:26:01 AM

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This news article is titled, Things that could only happen in a Hong Kong protest.
I was quite charmed by the civilised manners being exhibited. My favorite photo is the guy holding up the umbrella.
excaelis
Posted: Wednesday, October 1, 2014 2:18:09 PM

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TheParser wrote:
excaelis wrote:
I'm sure there are as many Republican idiots are there are Democrat idiots.




Most human beings, of course, are idiots. Just look at this world.


Back to the topic, though, fair-minded people agree that some ineligible voters are, in fact, voting. They include foreigners who are here "without permission" and American citizens who have committed certain violent crimes. Furthermore, some people vote more than once, and it's been shown that some dead people are on the voting rolls.

When those states try to stop such outrageous and undemocratic fraud, the Democrats scream "Racism!"

The only racism is on the part of those who scream "Racism!" (And that includes the lady who may be the next president of the United States of America.)




Ah, you mean ineligible rather than unqualified. On the plus side, at least they're committed enough to the democratic process to show up and cast a ballot, unlike so many eligible voters.
s002wjh
Posted: Wednesday, October 1, 2014 5:06:14 PM
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ellana wrote:
History under British rule has given Hong Kong a taste of the democratic process. They have prospered under this style of government. But I have to agree with others that democracy is sometimes/often hypocritical, a sham.


all the governor in HK prior to 1997 was APPOINTED by British, not by hongkong people
Tovarish
Posted: Wednesday, October 1, 2014 9:06:20 PM

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Its not tens of thousands but hundreds of thousand of people, with families, little children and older people now.

s002wjh, welcome to the forum, its good to have you, yes that is one of the requests, to be able to nominate their own governor.
TheParser
Posted: Thursday, October 2, 2014 5:35:09 AM
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excaelis wrote:



Ah, you mean ineligible rather than unqualified. On the plus side, at least they're committed enough to the democratic process to show up and cast a ballot, unlike so many eligible voters.



Thanks for the much-needed chuckle.

What an innovative way to view voter fraud!
TheParser
Posted: Thursday, October 2, 2014 5:46:44 AM
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ChristopherJohnson wrote:
I wonder, how can communist, one-party regimes, which are oppressive, authoritarian and totalitarian, still exist in the 21th century!



The theory goes:

After the People's Army slaughtered the people in Tiananmen Square in 1989, the government and the people reached an unspoken agreement:

The government will work hard to give the people a high standard of living and a lot of personal freedom.

The people will avoid politics and accept the Communist Party as their masters.



TheParser
Posted: Thursday, October 2, 2014 5:56:29 AM
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Tears welled up when I saw on TV the thousands of idealist people (young and old) in Hong Kong demanding democracy.

Being 77 years old, I well remember how Mr. Deng ordered the army to crush the 1989 Tiananmen Square demonstration of mostly idealistic youth.

Of course, the so-called Communists in Beijing will never give in to the Hong Kongers' demands.

They will try to find a way to buy them off.

Or they will use force.

And when push comes to shove, it is actually possible that many (most?) Hong Kongers realize that a high standard of living (which depends on trade with the mainland) is more important than to elect their own leaders. After all, people in the United States and Europe elect their own leaders, and the results have not been necessarily encouraging.

excaelis
Posted: Thursday, October 2, 2014 1:04:28 PM

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TheParser wrote:
excaelis wrote:



Ah, you mean ineligible rather than unqualified. On the plus side, at least they're committed enough to the democratic process to show up and cast a ballot, unlike so many eligible voters.



Thanks for the much-needed chuckle.

What an innovative way to view voter fraud!



That's just how I roll. The glass is half full ( and there are four lights...) Angel
s002wjh
Posted: Friday, October 3, 2014 11:25:00 PM
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local HK resident starting to piss off as protestor block their home, highway, and business shops. I doubt will last long if they can't get support from local resident. might as well take the protest to park without cause server economy dip and inconvenience to the locals.
excaelis
Posted: Saturday, October 4, 2014 1:03:58 AM

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Meanwhile, a billion mainlanders say " 10,000 ? We lost that many in statistical errors last year. Who gives a ..."
Tovarish
Posted: Saturday, October 4, 2014 4:06:26 AM

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The louts arrived and tried to cause trouble, thankfully they (triads) have been arrested, that is progress.

but the eyes of the world have been watching their every move Exy.
excaelis
Posted: Saturday, October 4, 2014 4:14:30 AM

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True, but they're rather in the position of the occupy movement from last year ( or whenever that was - I've been busy ) - the people with the power to move change outgun them. Noble, magnificent, fascinating, polite ( that's cool ) but ultimately....
Tovarish
Posted: Saturday, October 4, 2014 6:28:53 AM

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We wont go there.

I can see why they would bother the residents and shop keepers trying to make a living.
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