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I need help translating old Italian Options
hanibalbarka
Posted: Friday, July 04, 2014 7:34:16 AM
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I need help translating something from old Italian, any help is welcome. Google translate is useless here. I've put names and titles in italic.

1
Seguando a dir come ogni homo de qua prese admiratione de vignir d'essi Turchi in Bossina, perche se senteria et era nominanza, che li fatti della sua maesta stavano bene
appresso del Turco; et che avanti el vegnir d' essi Turchi in Bossina era nominanza che el detto re era in concordia col signor despot et li voleva dar Sreberniza, et cosi con quello mo che ve parerá domandarete la caxon de cosi subita mutacione, et chi fu caxon de la venuta de li Turchi, tantosto venne novella che voi non li volesti dar Sreberniza et che remanesti in discordio. Et attenderete bene la resposta che vi fara.

2
Et poi dicete como havete comreso che el dicto Cherzech sempre ba cercato et cercha de
minuir el regno del prefato re et di farli danuo, percbe quando el despot aveva Toste sotto Sreberniza, esso Cherzech aveva mandati li soi iu subsidio di esso despot, et contra esso re.

3
Et simile se nella via trovareti Petar Chovazevich, lo salutareti et visitareti, amorezzandove cum lui como se conviene.

4
Diebus ver illis illac transiens magnificus dominus Vochinio Slotonosovieh voivoda
ambos sic crudeliter tritos humanitate inde traxit sub fide prestandi ducatorum duo milia, vei ipsos vivos aut mortuos usque diem quadragesimum reducendi Vranduchium.

Thank you in advance :)
excaelis
Posted: Friday, July 04, 2014 7:11:02 PM

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Isn't #4 Latin ? ( very old Italian )

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hanibalbarka
Posted: Saturday, July 05, 2014 11:49:51 AM
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yes sorry my mistake wrong text :)

this is real 4
Et primo con la grazia de Dio partendo de qua, vatene a la via de la Drina, et vientene in la contrada de li Slatonosevich et li babi inforraatione donde sia il uostro signor soprascripto et babuda questa inforniacione partite e vatene piú presto porai a la presencia del detto nostro signor dove será.
sarah71
Posted: Tuesday, July 08, 2014 8:05:59 AM

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Location: Turin, Piedmont, Italy
Hi,
It seems to be "vernacolo", that is a sort of Latin spin-off from the Middle Ages. Some words and nouns make me think it was written by someone living in the North-East; Slatonosevich could be a family from Venice Republic area, which at that time reigned over Dalmatia (where my father comes from, in fact our family name ends in -ich). I'll try to have a look at the whole thing later and figure out what it is about.

Cheers!


Sarah

Death is the ultimate dream
hanibalbarka
Posted: Tuesday, July 08, 2014 9:28:20 AM
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Thanks for reply sarah71 :)
Basically i have problem with that archaic Italian to get full meaning. Slatonosevich is family from medieval Bosnia and all texts are subject related to eastern Bosnia and written in Dubrovnik. Texts number 1 and 2 are from 1451; 3 from 1454; and 4 is from year 1412.
sarah71
Posted: Tuesday, July 08, 2014 10:59:29 AM

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Location: Turin, Piedmont, Italy
hanibalbarka wrote:
Thanks for reply sarah71 :)
Basically i have problem with that archaic Italian to get full meaning. Slatonosevich is family from medieval Bosnia and all texts are subject related to eastern Bosnia and written in Dubrovnik. Texts number 1 and 2 are from 1451; 3 from 1454; and 4 is from year 1412.


During the Serenissima's kingdom Dubrovnik was known as Ragusa. I'll try to do my best to get the meaning of these sentences, another option is to ask Italian Forum section's friends.

Death is the ultimate dream
sarah71
Posted: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 2:57:15 AM

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Location: Turin, Piedmont, Italy
hanibalbarka wrote:
I need help translating something from old Italian, any help is welcome. Google translate is useless here. I've put names and titles in italic.

1
Seguando a dir come ogni homo de qua prese admiratione de vignir d'essi Turchi in Bossina, perche se senteria et era nominanza, che li fatti della sua maesta stavano bene
appresso del Turco; et che avanti el vegnir d' essi Turchi in Bossina era nominanza che el detto re era in concordia col signor despot et li voleva dar Sreberniza, et cosi con quello mo che ve parerá domandarete la caxon de cosi subita mutacione, et chi fu caxon de la venuta de li Turchi, tantosto venne novella che voi non li volesti dar Sreberniza et che remanesti in discordio. Et attenderete bene la resposta che vi fara.



1
Continuando a dire come ogni uomo del posto iniziò ad apprezzare la venuta dei Turchi in Bosnia, perchè si diceva che i sudditi (?) di Sua Maestà stavano bene con i Turchi; e che prima della venuta dei Turchi in Bosnia si diceva che il Re era d'accordo con il tiranno (turco?) e gli voleva dare Srebenica, così, nel modo che vi parrà migliore, (gli?) domanderete la ragione di questo cambiamento, e chi fu la causa della venuta dei Turchi, dal momento che voi non volevate cedere Srebenica e che perciò eravate in disaccordo. E attenderete dunque la risposta che vi darà.


I tried to translate the first paragraph, I can't see much sense in it, though.. a little more context would help a lot. It seems like some high-level politician is giving instructions to a legate/emissary.

Death is the ultimate dream
hanibalbarka
Posted: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 6:12:33 AM
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First thanks a lot sarah

I get some of the context now :D
I see you translated despot with "tiranno" but despot is title of Serbian ruler at the time. So he is talking about subjects of majesty (bosnian king ?) being fine with coming of Turks and that before that Bosnian king and Serbian despot had agreement on rule over city of Srebrenica. The next part part isnt very clear for me. He mentioned cause of the coming of Turks, and mentioned Srebrenica again but dont know in witch contest.
Text number 2 is from same source and is few lines below.
sarah71
Posted: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 7:09:31 AM

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hanibalbarka wrote:
First thanks a lot sarah

I get some of the context now :D
I see you translated despot with "tiranno" but despot is title of Serbian ruler at the time. So he is talking about subjects of majesty (bosnian king ?) being fine with coming of Turks and that before that Bosnian king and Serbian despot had agreement on rule over city of Srebrenica. The next part part isnt very clear for me. He mentioned cause of the coming of Turks, and mentioned Srebrenica again but dont know in witch contest.
Text number 2 is from same source and is few lines below.


I see, now it begins to shape a bit better :)
My choice of "tiranno" was made thinking of the following meaning: "(Historical Terms) (esp in ancient Greece) a ruler whose authority lacked the sanction of law or custom; usurper"; the word "tyrant/tiranno" comes from ancient Greek and literally means "city master", so it didn't initially harbor any negative meaning. Many Sicilian cities (poleis) were ruled by tyrants during Greek colonization two hundred years before Christ.

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sarah71
Posted: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 7:22:24 AM

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hanibalbarka wrote:
I need help translating something from old Italian, any help is welcome. Google translate is useless here. I've put names and titles in italic.


2
Et poi dicete como havete comreso che el dicto Cherzech sempre ba cercato et cercha de
minuir el regno del prefato re et di farli danuo, percbe quando el despot aveva Toste sotto Sreberniza, esso Cherzech aveva mandati li soi iu subsidio di esso despot, et contra esso re.



2
E poi dite come avete capito che il suddetto (?) Cherzech (it might refer to a noble family name, a noble man) ha sempre cercato e cerca di sminuire il regno del sunnominato (?) re e di recargli danno, perchè quando il despota aveva Toste (no idea..) sotto Srebrenica, il Cherzech aveva mandato i suoi in sostituzione (??) del despota e contro il re.

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sarah71
Posted: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 7:24:42 AM

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Location: Turin, Piedmont, Italy
hanibalbarka wrote:
I need help translating something from old Italian, any help is welcome. Google translate is useless here. I've put names and titles in italic.


3
Et simile se nella via trovareti Petar Chovazevich, lo salutareti et visitareti, amorezzandove cum lui como se conviene.

Thank you in advance :)


3
Similmente, se lungo il cammino (it might be: durante la vostra visita) incontrerete Peter Chovazevich, lo saluterete e visiterete, intrattenendovi amichevolmente con lui come si conviene (com'è consuetudine).



Death is the ultimate dream
sarah71
Posted: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 7:27:14 AM

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Location: Turin, Piedmont, Italy
hanibalbarka wrote:
yes sorry my mistake wrong text :)

this is real 4
Et primo con la grazia de Dio partendo de qua, vatene a la via de la Drina, et vientene in la contrada de li Slatonosevich et li babi inforraatione donde sia il uostro signor soprascripto et babuda questa inforniacione partite e vatene piú presto porai a la presencia del detto nostro signor dove será.


4
Per prima cosa, partendo di qua in grazia di Dio (it might be: very early, as soon as possible), prendi la via della Drina e vieni nella Contrada (via) degli Slatonosevich, e là chiedi informazioni su dove sia il nostro suddetto signore, e avuta questa informazione parti e vai al più presto da lui.

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hanibalbarka
Posted: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 8:07:57 AM
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Thanks again Sarah, this helps a lot :)
If you ever need help translating something from south Slavic languages I can help you :)
sarah71
Posted: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 8:52:59 AM

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hanibalbarka wrote:
Thanks again Sarah, this helps a lot :)
If you ever need help translating something from south Slavic languages I can help you :)


Well, who knows? As a matter of fact, there's a 25% Slavic blood in my veins - but unfortunately, no language knowledge...

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Robert Imgrat
Posted: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 7:33:34 PM

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excaelis wrote:
Isn't #4 Latin ? ( very old Italian )


In the future time I will be more civilized replying to your posts.
nerdcorner
Posted: Friday, January 02, 2015 12:28:20 PM
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excaelis wrote:
Isn't #4 Latin ? ( very old Italian )



exactly...just the first 3 are ancient italian (volgare), the last is latin.

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