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No greater injury can be done to any youth than to let him feel that because he belongs to this or that race he will be... Options
Daemon
Posted: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 12:00:00 AM
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No greater injury can be done to any youth than to let him feel that because he belongs to this or that race he will be advanced in life regardless of his own merits or efforts.

Booker T. Washington (1856-1915)
jing
Posted: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 1:24:48 AM

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he said "advanced", not "disadvanced".

I look sideways in front of Marla's apartment. The wall behind me is yelling "I LIKE MYSELF" repeatedly.
sandraleesmith46
Posted: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 4:14:19 AM

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Too bad the Civil Rights movement's leaders and the government didn't heed Mr. Washington on this. There are some African-Americans who hold to this belief today still, but the majority can't see that "affirmative action" has actually labelled them as "less than" and held them back too, for all I don't understand why they can't seem to recognize it. Booker T. Washington was a brilliant man.

fair winds and following seas
MarySM
Posted: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 7:29:29 AM

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About 20 years ago I worked for a small company that had no female managers and had never had a female President or Vice President. When a Managers position opened up I applied and was promoted. I have the applicable degree and experience and qualifications for the position. The men who wanted the position immediately started referring to me as the companies “token female” although none of them were equally qualified. They actually convinced some people that I was promoted simply because I am female.

Booker T. Washington was a very wise person. Affirmative action cuts both ways.


"He who never made a mistake never made a discovery." Samuel Smiles
ardii
Posted: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 7:30:44 AM
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Well said sandralee. Booker was before Affirmative Action, by which African Americans could be advanced because of race. Before, it was an antidote to race discrimination. Now with that behind us, Affirmative Action is still in place and it certainly labels them as "less than". An African American student in UCLA, Berkerly, was on "The Story" on NPR last year, and it occured and puzzled him why so many new poor immigrants from the Far East come with just the shirts on their backs, and within a generation, so many have started businesses, sent their kids to great institutions of higher learning, while African Americans have been here forever and they stay at the bottom of the ladder. The immigrants put blinders on to obstacles and language difficulties by overcoming or working around them, work their tails off, and America is a fertile ground for them.
Christine
Posted: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 8:58:33 AM

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jing wrote:
he said "advanced", not "disadvanced".
right

I am carrying my heart~I am carrying my rhythm~I am carrying my prayers~But you can't kill my spirit~It's soaring and strong (Paula Cole's Me Lyrics)***We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We ARE spirtual beings having a human experience.(T.deChardin)***There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle. (Albert Einstein)



Joseph Glantz
Posted: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 9:13:33 AM
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While I can undestand some of the sentiment and maybe affirmative action has reached the end of it's usefuleness and I agree with Booker T. Washington's quote - I think affirmative action did serve a purpose. A lot of doors were completely closed without it. I hesitate to give a firm opinion on this because I don't pass the Bill Bradley test - which is have you ever spent an evening in a black man's home. Most Americans still haven't.
captaina
Posted: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 9:15:10 AM
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If that is the case about the affirmative action, what else can we try to advocate?

MarySM wrote:
About 20 years ago I worked for a small company that had no female managers and had never had a female President or Vice President. When a Managers position opened up I applied and was promoted. I have the applicable degree and experience and qualifications for the position. The men who wanted the position immediately started referring to me as the companies “token female” although none of them were equally qualified. They actually convinced some people that I was promoted simply because I am female.

Booker T. Washington was a very wise person. Affirmative action cuts both ways.
cheri
Posted: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 10:48:13 AM
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captaina wrote:
If that is the case about the affirmative action, what else can we try to advocate?

MarySM wrote:
About 20 years ago I worked for a small company that had no female managers and had never had a female President or Vice President. When a Managers position opened up I applied and was promoted. I have the applicable degree and experience and qualifications for the position. The men who wanted the position immediately started referring to me as the companies “token female” although none of them were equally qualified. They actually convinced some people that I was promoted simply because I am female.

Booker T. Washington was a very wise person. Affirmative action cuts both ways.
GlobalWarner
Posted: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 1:18:49 PM
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Sounds like he's referencing to the idea of 'White Privilege.'
GlobalWarner
Posted: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 1:42:14 PM
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Ultimately, the era of overt racism in America has proved counter-productive to its maturation as a 'Civilized Society.'
The most harmful effects of racism included the lack of education and economic opportunity...as 'those sentenced to Blackness' were always relegated by various unspoken laws 'into their place'...far and away from the pursuits guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution and Declaration Of Independence.
With this discriminatory practice existing as an institution in American until 1964-65 with the historic passages of The Civil Rights and Voting Rights Bill, it would absurd to dis-associate the accumulative effects of this societal malaise with the over-all challenges facing 'Africans-lost-in-America' today. (Read more in "Message To A DeadMan" by Turner Page/ June 2010 release)
Seeker
Posted: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 2:11:26 PM
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ardii
An African American student.....in UCLA, Berkerly, was on "The Story" on NPR last year, and it occured and puzzled him why so many new poor immigrants from the Far East come with just the shirts on their backs, and within a generation, so many have started businesses, sent their kids to great institutions of higher learning, while African Americans have been here forever and they stay at the bottom of the ladder. The immigrants put blinders on to obstacles and language difficulties by overcoming or working around them, work their tails off, and America is a fertile ground for them.

Joseph Glantz
I hesitate to give a firm opinion on this because I don't pass the Bill Bradley test - which is have you ever spent an evening in a black man's home. Most Americans still haven't.

GlobalWarner
Ultimately, the era of overt racism in America has proved counter-productive to its maturation as a 'Civilized Society.'
The most harmful effects of racism included the lack of education and economic opportunity...as 'those sentenced to Blackness' were always relegated by various unspoken laws 'into their place'...far and away from the pursuits guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution and Declaration Of Independence.
With this discriminatory practice existing as an institution in American until 1964-65 with the historic passages of The Civil Rights and Voting Rights Bill, it would absurd to dis-associate the accumulative effects of this societal malaise with the over-all challenges facing 'Africans-lost-in-America' today. (Read more in "Message To A DeadMan" by Turner Page/ June 2010 release)

Interesting postings here.

To Ardii: 1st, Key word “student.” He is too young to have experienced much of the Civil Rights struggles. This student is one who has benefitted from the struggles of the black man in America the last 100+ years. 2nd, “…immigrants from the Far East come…” Key word “come” – Blacks were dragged here involuntarily as slaves. They did “work their tails off,” for other races. They helped to build this country.

To Joseph Glantz: You are exactly correct.

To GlobalWarner: Well said! “With this discriminatory practice existing as an institution in American until 1964-65 with the historic passages of The Civil Rights and Voting Rights Bill, it would absurd to dis-associate the accumulative effects of this societal malaise with the over-all challenges facing 'Africans-lost-in-America' today.”

To all: Here in the 21st century – with our first black President – the inherent racism has reared it’s very ugly head and it feels very much like the 50s and 60s.
ardii
Posted: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 2:56:35 PM
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Glad you jumped in Seeker. With the equality that we have now (and I voted for Obama), I would rather leave the past behind and move forward - even if the Blacks were dragged here long ago. The Blacks could flourish here in America better than any other country, including Zimbabwe, Uganda, Haiti or the Congo where they are in complete control and can blame no one for their poor state of affairs. Many countries became independent from the colonial powers of the last century and many have created flourishing nations like Malaysia, Singapore, India, Hong Kong, South Korea, Taiwan, while many like the ones mentioned above have never been able to create the political/social/intellectual/economic foundations necessary to move their societies forward.

As I've said in my previous comment on "Law never made a man a whit more just", what is in the average farmer, baker, butcher, street sweeper, filters up to their leaders and determine what kind of governments they will have. Could it be that the state of the cultural/intellectual/political/economic acumen of the average Black farmer and baker need more development so that from them they can find their Jeffersons and Adam Smiths and Isaac Newtons to lay the groundwork of their constitutions and economic systems?
Hupomone
Posted: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 3:23:02 PM
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Racism/prejudice is an interesting malady that appears to be undescriminating when it comes to race/gender/creed/intellect.
Hupomone
Posted: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 4:22:00 PM
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I hate it when I mispall words or out of sentences...
pi
Posted: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 4:39:49 PM
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Any form of bias takes its root in the intellectual differentiation of groups of people. It happens when two people exist or when two groups of people exist. The physical attributes serve only as indicators to this diffrentiation. Now this differentiation does exist. This only becomes a problem when it manifests itself as social behaviour. The behaviour is tolerated until it infringes upon the personal space of the person or people discriminated against, and then there follows the revolt.

So, every group that was discriminated against, whether based on sex, colour, race, region, sexual orientation had to fight to attain liberty. Which is ironical, because the only function of strength is to protect the weak.

Seeker
Posted: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 6:21:17 PM
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ardii wrote:
Glad you jumped in Seeker. With the equality that we have now (and I voted for Obama), I would rather leave the past behind and move forward - even if the Blacks were dragged here long ago. The Blacks could flourish here in America better than any other country, including Zimbabwe, Uganda, Haiti or the Congo where they are in complete control and can blame no one for their poor state of affairs. Many countries became independent from the colonial powers of the last century and many have created flourishing nations like Malaysia, Singapore, India, Hong Kong, South Korea, Taiwan, while many like the ones mentioned above have never been able to create the political/social/intellectual/economic foundations necessary to move their societies forward.

As I've said in my previous comment on "Law never made a man a whit more just", what is in the average farmer, baker, butcher, street sweeper, filters up to their leaders and determine what kind of governments they will have. Could it be that the state of the cultural/intellectual/political/economic acumen of the average Black farmer and baker need more development so that from them they can find their Jeffersons and Adam Smiths and Isaac Newtons to lay the groundwork of their constitutions and economic systems?


Thanks for your comments Ardii - but we do not yet have equality between peoples/races in this country and elsewhere. I've come to the conclusion that we may never realize it and maybe we are not suppose to. As for the past, those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it. Is that what we are seeing now? I don't see that a vote for Obama has the meaning it might have had if the new president had not been a replacement for W. And the discussion regarding the African nations is a whole nother subject I can't get into here as it clouds the issue. Your last paragraph also begs for a whole nother discussion.

And BTW Arii, Discrimination is definitely not behind us. Thanks for your response.
susanstar1234
Posted: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 7:01:45 PM

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It is not race, it is immigration law. If people even in their own immigration were given a chance to do something worth merit instead of being the ones that people take advantage of them, then that would be something to discuss within their own people. It is ashame as to how they have to yell as those that are really maybe not showing merit, and sure it shows their slobbiness, but that is their disgusts and not the ones of people's own society.

Cynthia Bernadette Sha'aouni
susanstar1234
Posted: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 7:03:34 PM

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yes, raise the youth with some moral standard.

Cynthia Bernadette Sha'aouni
ardii
Posted: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 7:55:02 PM
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Thanks for yours seeker. Perfect race equality does not exist. It does not exist between different dialects within the same race. That's as true in America as it is in China as it is in Africa. Remember the Hutu and Tutsi genocide in Rowanda where hundreds of thousands of people were killed? Black Africans killing other Black Africans. And the conflicts within Kenya between the different ethnic groups, etc, etc. Then there is the economic fault line in every society. It's folly to think that a minimum wage, uneducated McDonalds worker could go out to eat and recreate with the Bill Gates of this world.

Your best bet? Build a community, culture, system to produce the Miltons, Confucius, Einsteins, Voltaires, St. Augustines, and all the bright intellects of the ages, from whom you build uplifting, moral, advanced, benovelent stable communities. They can look down and sneer at you all they want out of human weakness, but you what you've got.

avatar
Posted: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 11:28:30 AM

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ardii wrote:
Well said sandralee. Booker was before Affirmative Action, by which African Americans could be advanced because of race. Before, it was an antidote to race discrimination. Now with that behind us, Affirmative Action is still in place and it certainly labels them as "less than". An African American student in UCLA, Berkerly, was on "The Story" on NPR last year, and it occured and puzzled him why so many new poor immigrants from the Far East come with just the shirts on their backs, and within a generation, so many have started businesses, sent their kids to great institutions of higher learning, while African Americans have been here forever and they stay at the bottom of the ladder. The immigrants put blinders on to obstacles and language difficulties by overcoming or working around them, work their tails off, and America is a fertile ground for them.



Immigrants from the Far East are screened by a US Consulate in their country, and can obtain a visa only if they have a relatively high level of education. Hence their success rate. There is no comparison to be made with African Americans, whose complete recovery is yet to be achieved. Shame on you

"Be the change you wish to see in the world." (M. K. Gandhi)
ardii
Posted: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 5:40:52 PM
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Avatar, have you ever seen those "well educated" Chinese who open restaurants here and tell you they have "flied lice"? :) Not much education there.
susanstar1234
Posted: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 6:25:28 PM

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it is your race, creed, and color of your skin. But, there are no setbacks.Applause Boo hoo!

Cynthia Bernadette Sha'aouni
pkeadle
Posted: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 8:17:22 PM

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I wish I'd known Mr Washington.
avatar
Posted: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:07:41 PM

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ardii wrote:
Avatar, have you ever seen those "well educated" Chinese who open restaurants here and tell you they have "flied lice"? :) Not much education there.


You're correct. I was thinking more about the S. Korean, Japanese and Indian MDs and engineers.

"Be the change you wish to see in the world." (M. K. Gandhi)
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