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Tiananmen Square Anniversary Options
Daemon
Posted: Wednesday, June 4, 2014 12:00:00 AM
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Tiananmen Square Anniversary

Each year thousands of people in Hong Kong, China, gather on June 4 to commemorate the anniversary of the Tiananmen Square massacre with a candlelight vigil. On that day in 1989, Chinese government tanks rolled into Beijing's Tiananman Square, killing hundreds of demonstrators calling for democratic reforms in China, and injuring 10,000 more. Since 1997, the Chinese government has discouraged the Hong Kong commemorations and pressured foreign news correspondents not to cover the yearly event. In the year 2002 about 45,000 people attended the vigil. More...
ellana
Posted: Wednesday, June 4, 2014 7:20:43 AM
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I was living in HK in 1989. I marched with many thousands to protest the horror. It is a horror to this day with the Chinese government suppressing freedom of expression and preventing its citizens from knowing and/or discussing a significant event in their history. Democracy is not at China's doorstep.
TheParser
Posted: Wednesday, June 4, 2014 7:23:22 AM
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Most Hong Kongers were genuinely happy when China took over from the British.

It is reported that many Hong Kongers now miss British rule.

It is strange why people seem to prefer to be ruled badly by their "own people" to being ruled well by "outsiders."

There are dozens of countries that would today be prosperous and peaceful if the so-called "colonialists" were still guiding them.
thar
Posted: Wednesday, June 4, 2014 7:30:27 AM

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Still the most powerful image of civil protest I have ever been exposed to:

http://youtu.be/YeFzeNAHEhU





-oh, I see there is already a thread about this in the history section. But I think no harm putting it here as well.
After all, this is my reaction this long after the event.
TheParser
Posted: Wednesday, June 4, 2014 7:49:17 AM
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thar wrote:
Still the most powerful image of civil protest I have ever been exposed to:




It shows that in 1989, that young man had enough confidence in his government to believe that the tanks would not roll right over him -- and he was right.

In 2014, of course, no one doubts that such behavior would be savagely crushed.
ithink140
Posted: Wednesday, June 4, 2014 7:52:50 AM

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Hi Ellana, you said: Democracy is not at China's doorstep.

I think a creeping democracy, in effect, is on its way. It may not be termed that, but the Chinese ruling class are scared stiff of their populace and are desperately trying to keep the lid on dissent, and will have to give way more and more if they are to hold on to the centre of power. As it is the likelihood is more ceding of power to the regions or states of China until you have regional and federal governments under the guise of pseudo communism.

Every system eventually falls or morphs, and this process began when the Chinese leaders put the train of market economy onto the tracks. Ever since then matters have been somewhat out of their hands. Market economy translates as democracy in some form.
ellana
Posted: Wednesday, June 4, 2014 9:55:02 AM
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I hope you're right ithink140 but I'm a sceptic. I don't see real democracy coming out of a growing market economy. Democracy requires principled thinking, quality leadership by and for the people. When free thought is suppressed for generations, what kind of people emerge but clones and in China at this time, consumer clones, with still a huge majority in the doldrums. No China isn't North Korea, but they are cut from the same cloth. I watch what the Chinese are doing in Africa which ultimately benefits them. They are resource hungry, glory hungry, at any price. I remember hearing when I lived in HK, 'Chinese people would sell their mother for the right price'. Now that's extreme but at that time, was not an uncommon dictum. But I digress!
monamagda
Posted: Wednesday, June 4, 2014 3:01:41 PM

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Tiananmen Square 'Tank Man'?

'He will always symbolize freedom and democracy,' photographer Jeff Widener, whose photo of the incident is the best known, was working then for the Associated Press.


See the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeFzeNAHEhU
Professor
Posted: Thursday, June 5, 2014 12:09:06 AM

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TheParser wrote:
Most Hong Kongers were genuinely happy when China took over from the British.

It is reported that many Hong Kongers now miss British rule.

It is strange why people seem to prefer to be ruled badly by their "own people" to being ruled well by "outsiders."

There are dozens of countries that would today be prosperous and peaceful if the so-called "colonialists" were still guiding them.


It is only human nature that the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.
TheParser
Posted: Thursday, June 5, 2014 5:56:50 AM
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ellana wrote:
I remember hearing when I lived in HK, 'Chinese people would sell their mother for the right price'.



I have also heard that the "dog eat dog" mentality is very strong in China, where people -- it is said -- will do ANYthing to get ahead economically.

To be fair, however, some people have pointed out:

1. The Chinese government has encouraged this attitude by telling the people to go out and get rich (and leave the government to us).

2. This attitude of running over other people in order to get ahead is prevalent in ALL countries. (Look at the many people who lost all their savings because of despicable financiers, bankers, and politicians here in the United States.)
TheParser
Posted: Thursday, June 5, 2014 6:13:15 AM
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Professor wrote:


It is only human nature that the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.



So true!

But sometimes the grass IS greener.

That is why millions of people at this very moment are packing their bags and headed for the United States, Canada, Europe, or Australia.

Compared with the grass in their homelands, the grass in those other places is lush beyond one's imagination.
ithink140
Posted: Thursday, June 5, 2014 7:39:44 AM

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You rightly said Ellana: 'Democracy requires principled thinking...'

Yes... the old guard may not like the way they are being pushed, and it may well be by default that they give way, but the pressure is on and in choosing to adopt a market economy they opened themselves up to all sorts of pressures for change that were not in their agenda. Public opinion can be like a tidal wave and the old guard are in fear of it. The only way they will hold onto the centre of power is by reform, or in time they will face a revolution. My belief is that they will give way gradually in a measured retreat, to form something more agreeable to their people. there is no option for them but to spread power... that way they can hold onto the centre.

Each generation of the communist party is a little less rigid.
Maryam Dad
Posted: Thursday, June 5, 2014 9:43:33 AM

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I want to emigrate to Califooorniaaaa...

*Wumming
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