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If Jesus Really Rose Options
Absurdicuss
Posted: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 10:42:05 PM

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If Jesus really did rise from the dead then every other question, about life, ultimate origins, evolution, the big bang, all scientific inquiry, the existence of morals, laws of logic and every other belief system would become secondary to that fact.




"Now" is the eternal present.
StephenLion
Posted: Sunday, June 01, 2014 6:21:47 PM

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He did..........
And your point?????

Jesus died for my sins, because God loved me before I ever acknowledged He existed. Thank you Lord.
Absurdicuss
Posted: Sunday, June 01, 2014 10:33:35 PM

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Hey Stephen...and welcome.

Well, I think the point is in the post, and that being the question of Christ's resurrection.

In light of the absolute salvation claim of Christianity and the eternal consequences of rejecting it, this must be the chief question facing humanity. To die for another is one thing but to triumph over death and rise again has no historic parallel.

Yet this is precisely the gospel claim. Can the claim withstand extra biblical scrutiny?

Romans 1:19 - 20 makes it clear that God, ergo truth, is knowable - "what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse."


Something big happened 2000 years ago, that has changed the world of man. According to scripture there is a coming judgement day when we will be held to account for accepting or rejecting the gospel of Christ.

If it is true then, it seems to me, that evidence confirming the event beyond a reasonable doubt must be attainable.


Now, considering the eternal stakes issued by an omnipotent God who claims everlasting love for us, is their evidence sufficient to accept the truth claim of Christianity?










"Now" is the eternal present.
tunaafi
Posted: Tuesday, June 03, 2014 6:18:49 PM

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Absurdicuss wrote:

If Jesus really did rise from the dead then every other question, about life, ultimate origins, evolution, the big bang, all scientific inquiry, the existence of morals, laws of logic and every other belief system would become secondary to that fact.


As there is no hard evidence that he even existed, let alone rose from the dead, then I don't think we need worry about this non-fact.
Absurdicuss
Posted: Tuesday, June 03, 2014 11:12:14 PM

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You write as one that has expertise in this area. Please elaborate. And if you will, explain whether or not you are familiar with the concept of "beyond reasonable doubt".



"Now" is the eternal present.
tunaafi
Posted: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 3:15:17 AM

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Absurdicuss wrote:
You write as one that has expertise in this area. Please elaborate. And if you will, explain whether or not you are familiar with the concept of "beyond reasonable doubt".


My only expertise is that of a born-again atheist.

Yes, I am very familiar with the concept of "beyond reasonable doubt". It has shaped my views on the monotheistic myths.
StephenLion
Posted: Thursday, June 05, 2014 8:24:18 PM

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Pray I do hope this makes sense. We accept that we are sinners (turned away from God's love & became de-facto our own God) God still gave us free will to chose to follow Him as many in the Old Testament did. The whole of the OT testifies to the coming of Christ the nature of His birth, life, death, resurrection & triumphant seating at God's right hand. The OT & NT point to the manner in which Christ will come again to bring in a New Heaven and a New Earth when every tear will be wiped away and all things made new.

As I said we were all given free will to accept or reject God's provision in Christ for our salvation. We do this by faith. I accepted that I was a sinner and that Christ died to take away my sin & by His resurrection I would have eternal life now and life to the full now. Once I accepted Christ as my Saviour and Lord I knew His claims were true and that He lives in all believers.

I know I cannot 'prove' this to you as no one can 'prove' that God does not exist. As for the "big bang" God spoke and life began..........

Even in my MS addled body & mind I KNOW that MY redeemer lives. As you know Abs "all creation is now groaning as in child birth" waiting for the return of our Saviour Jesus. Both you and Tunaafi could know this as fact, all you need is faith.........

The choice is yours, I pray that you like I make the right choice.

Sleep well and God bless you both....

Jesus died for my sins, because God loved me before I ever acknowledged He existed. Thank you Lord.
excaelis
Posted: Thursday, June 05, 2014 9:50:51 PM

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Hard evidence in Holy Land archaeology is very, very scarce. On balance, there seems to be enough circumstantial and anecdotal evidence that he and his followers named in the Book existed.

Sanity is not statistical
StephenLion
Posted: Friday, June 06, 2014 4:48:19 AM

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EXCAELIS
From my limited knowledge there is a lot of evidence of the places where Jesus went. even the Upper Room where Jesus had the Last Supper is known. There is even mention of Jesus is some Jewish historical texts, though this is disputed by some scholars.

However for me it is all a question of faith.

No one side (believers and non-believers) have certain 'truth'. Only God can know all things.

Even if a person does not believe in God, it will not stop God from believing in them......... Just a thought.

Jesus died for my sins, because God loved me before I ever acknowledged He existed. Thank you Lord.
StephenLion
Posted: Friday, June 06, 2014 4:54:47 AM

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ABS, thank you for your welcome. You stated the following.
"If it is true then, it seems to me, that evidence confirming the event beyond a reasonable doubt must be attainable. "

The answer is to me simple. It is by faith.

The choice is our to accept this "foolishness" or reject it with "wise knowledge".

Just a thought.

Jesus died for my sins, because God loved me before I ever acknowledged He existed. Thank you Lord.
pedro
Posted: Friday, June 06, 2014 6:15:27 AM

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Then there are the poor sods born before Christ came along. They've been coasting along happily(?) in Limbo and along comes the Pope and abolishes it!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1549439/The-Pope-ends-state-of-limbo-after-800-years.html

And if you can't trust a pope who can you believe?

All good ideas arrive by chance- Max Ernst
StephenLion
Posted: Friday, June 06, 2014 6:34:03 AM

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PEDRO.

Pray The "poor sods" were if you look at the gospels, letters of Paul and Hebrews you would see that people were saved by faith in "the hope to come (Christ)". God's provision for salvation for all who believe by faith that God would save them, was ordered before creation, see John 1.

As for "Limbo" there is no biblical evidence for this state, it was instituted by the Catholic church which is why this biblical scholar Pope has abolished what was a man made doctrine.

Anyway isn't limbo a dance????Whistle

Just a thought......

Jesus died for my sins, because God loved me before I ever acknowledged He existed. Thank you Lord.
pedro
Posted: Friday, June 06, 2014 9:45:04 AM

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64-qn3ldlyc

All good ideas arrive by chance- Max Ernst
Listening . . .
Posted: Friday, June 06, 2014 4:13:23 PM

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If Jesus really did rise from the dead and the words of the bible are considered true and from God, then shouldn't it be considered acceptable to stone someone to death? d'oh!
StephenLion
Posted: Saturday, June 07, 2014 9:49:45 AM

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LISTENING.
The simple answer is no. Jesus said "he who is without sin, cast the first stone".
Jesus being sinless was the only one qualified to throw the stones.
However as John writes in John 3: 16-17
New American Standard Bible
16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.

I accept that there are certain religious zealots who carry out various extreme practices (stoning is one & blowing up abortion clinics & threatening staff who work in those places are just two that spring to mind) 'in God's name' however I am sure that God is appalled by their actions.

It is now not acceptable to "fight anger/violence with more of the same Brick wall . As the OT & NT teach we are "turn the other cheek".

As a life long pacifist I have since the age of five tried to live out a non-violent life style. Not always with success, from my side.

Again I find being nasty makes me feel bad and out of control and I just might be on the wrong side of right....... Just a thought.Think

Jesus died for my sins, because God loved me before I ever acknowledged He existed. Thank you Lord.
tunaafi
Posted: Monday, June 09, 2014 4:26:42 AM

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StephenLion wrote:
as John writes in John 3: 16-17
New American Standard Bible
16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.


As Matthew (10.34-39) writes: “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and one’s foes will be members of one’s own household. Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; and whoever does not take up the cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Those who find their life will lose it, and those who lose their life for my sake will find it.

That's the loving god I am supposed to believe in? No thanks.
StephenLion
Posted: Monday, June 09, 2014 8:26:27 AM

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Dear TUNAAFI, you wrote commenting on Matthew 10: 34-39.
"That's the loving god I am supposed to believe in? No thanks."
It is easy to take verses out of context and build a reason for not believing or even a doctrine/theological thesis. (The Catholic church took Jesus' words at His last meal on the eve of passover and came up with the doctrine of 'transubstantiation'.

You have to look at the whole of that portion of scripture. In chapter 9 of Matthews gospel, Jesus is going around teaching and preaching that the kingdom of God had come. During this time He called Matthew (a hated tax collector) and had a meal with the lowest of Jewish society, tax collectors, prostitutes and other assorted 'low life's'. He was also healing the sick and raising a synagogue officials daughter from the dead. Throughout all of this the Jewish leaders and experts in the law were getting angry at Christ and were trying to convince the people that Jesus was from Satan and it was in that name that He was driving out demons.

Then in chapter 10, Jesus calls his 12 closest disciples to Him with the intention of sending them out without Him to do what He was doing. So your reference to verses 34-39 comes in the middle of these instructions. Jesus is telling warning them what will happen, that because the Jewish authorities were against Him they would also be against them. He was also telling them that after His death and resurrection even governments would persecute them and even put some to death. However just before that He told them not to worry as the Holy Spirit would give them strength and the words to say. Even more than that God knows us and cares for each of us so completely that he knows the "the number of hairs on our heads" v 30.

In verses 35 and 36 Jesus is quoting Micah 7:6 where the prophet is warning what the unrighteous Jew will do to the righteous. Jesus is saying that because of mankind's sin and rebellion against our righteous God, those who proclaim His name and live out their lives to His glory, will cause conflict within families and society as a whole. Micah 7: 7-9 really states what Jesus was saying about picking up our cross and following Him.
"7 But as for me, I will watch expectantly for the Lord; I will wait for the God of my salvation. My God will hear me. 8 Do not rejoice over me, O my enemy. Though I fall I will rise; Though I dwell in darkness, the Lord is a light for me. 9 I will bear the indignation of the Lord Because I have sinned against Him, Until He pleads my case and executes justice for me. He will bring me out to the light, And I will see His righteousness."

You can see this happening to people who are born again in Christ and call themselves christian. Families are split, people put to death, governments persecuting believers and killing them in the name of their law. Meriam Yehya Ibrahim is under arrest in Sudan and was forced to give birth in chains and once the child is weaned in two years time she will be hanged and her baby taken away from her christian family. This is what Jesus was warning all who wish to follow Him might expect. Being a christian is not an easy option. Here in the west we do have it easy, the worst we face is ridicule and contempt. But even in the 'enlightened' west families are still split.

Before I accepted Christ as my Lord and Saviour, I was like you very anti-christian. My parents and sister became christians and then tried to convert me. I was having none of it because of something that happened when I tried to join a church choir aged 10. However in my late 20's Christ spoke to my heart and soul and I repented of my unbelief and gave my life to Jesus.
Because of that I would be interested as to what made you so anti Jesus/God????


Jesus died for my sins, because God loved me before I ever acknowledged He existed. Thank you Lord.
tunaafi
Posted: Monday, June 09, 2014 4:38:24 PM

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Quote:
It is easy to take verses out of context


It is indeed, Stephen. It is also pretty easy to put one's own slant on things. Me? I am a simple sort of person. If JC said that he came to bring a sword rather than peace, I guess that's what he meant to say. If he said that he had come to set son against father, daughter against mother, etc, he meant it. If he didn't then surely, being God, he could have expressed himself more clearly. If JC were the omnipotent, omniscient, bladibla God, then don't you think he could have expressed himself clearly?
jacobusmaximus
Posted: Tuesday, June 10, 2014 6:04:36 AM

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tunaafi wrote:
Quote:
It is easy to take verses out of context


It is indeed, Stephen. It is also pretty easy to put one's own slant on things. Me? I am a simple sort of person. If JC said that he came to bring a sword rather than peace, I guess that's what he meant to say. If he said that he had come to set son against father, daughter against mother, etc, he meant it. If he didn't then surely, being God, he could have expressed himself more clearly. If JC were the omnipotent, omniscient, bladibla God, then don't you think he could have expressed himself clearly?


tunaafi, you have got to take into account that, at the time Jesus spoke these words, there was a war on for control of the hearts and minds and souls of man. The war was between God (in Christ) and Satan. All Satan had to do was let sleeping dogs lie and they would snore their way into Hell. By sleeping dogs I mean those who had already rejected the Kingdom of God. They were not actively anti-God, but only because their brothers and sisters, etc., were not actively pro-God. Now consider that these anti-God people were, often, dearly-loved relatives of those who believed in God. They could be, and probably were, warm-hearted, even charismatic, people, well able to influence their relatives to follow them into the arms of Satan. But who were they? Who could tell? Jesus could. He armed his own people with the Gospel message, knowing that this would bring out the enemy in their true colours. And it did. It set unbelieving mother-in-law against believing daughter-in-law, etc., etc. It was the end of the 'Peace in our time' fantasy. It got God's soldiers into uniform to fight the Good Fight, leading to victory at the Cross.

Remember that Jesus was speaking to his own disciples. They understood exactly what he meant. Scripture today takes the place of the Twelve. Read it, and you too will know exactly what Jesus is saying.


I remember, therefore I am.
pedro
Posted: Tuesday, June 10, 2014 6:27:24 AM

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Can't you revoke commandments?

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jacobusmaximus
Posted: Tuesday, June 10, 2014 9:51:24 AM

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pedro wrote:
Can't you revoke commandments?


I never know when you are being serious, pedro, or just poking fun.

I am sure you, as a former Catholic, will know well that some Churches are so powerful that they can change God's commandments to suit their political needs. But you can't change Scripture. It is God's word for everyone for all time coming.

I remember, therefore I am.
tunaafi
Posted: Tuesday, June 10, 2014 4:21:44 PM

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jacobusmaximusThe war was between God (in Christ) and Satan. wrote:


I am afraid I just don't believe in either God or Satan.

Even if there were such things, the whole thing seems rather silly. If God existed and were truly omniscient and omnipotent, all-loving and all-good, then he would not have allowed Satan to exist.
StephenLion
Posted: Tuesday, June 10, 2014 4:29:44 PM

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Dear TUNAAFI, as I have already said you have to read it in context and take the whole of scripture into account (OT and NT)
Please read "The Sermon on the Mount" Matthew chapters 5 to 7. I like the NASB as it is very close to the Greek and Hebrew texts, here is a direct link. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5+-+7&version=NASB

I would be very interested in your take on these verses and if it makes the verses in Matthew 10: 34-39 any clearer to you.

God is closer to you than you could imagine. Think Just a thought.

Jesus died for my sins, because God loved me before I ever acknowledged He existed. Thank you Lord.
tunaafi
Posted: Wednesday, June 11, 2014 8:38:55 AM

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StephenLion wrote:

Please read "The Sermon on the Mount" Matthew chapters 5 to 7. I like the NASB as it is very close to the Greek and Hebrew texts, here is a direct link. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5+-+7&version=NASB

I would be very interested in your take on these verses and if it makes the verses in Matthew 10: 34-39 any clearer to you.
.


If I just look at a woman and a lustful thought creeps into my mind, I have committed adultery. If my right hand upsets me, I must cut it off. It is wrong for me to make any provision at all for myself or my family - I just have to trust in God and He will provide. No, this doesn't make things clearer.
jacobusmaximus
Posted: Wednesday, June 11, 2014 11:46:19 AM

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tunaafi wrote:
StephenLion wrote:

Please read "The Sermon on the Mount" Matthew chapters 5 to 7. I like the NASB as it is very close to the Greek and Hebrew texts, here is a direct link. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5+-+7&version=NASB

I would be very interested in your take on these verses and if it makes the verses in Matthew 10: 34-39 any clearer to you.
.


If I just look at a woman and a lustful thought creeps into my mind, I have committed adultery. If my right hand upsets me, I must cut it off. It is wrong for me to make any provision at all for myself or my family - I just have to trust in God and He will provide. No, this doesn't make things clearer.


StephenLion
is right to say that we need to study the whole of the Bible to fully understand its teaching, tunaffi,but I fear that in suggesting you read the Sermon on the Mount he has handed you meat that is too strong for you. The Sermon on the Mount was addressed to Jesus' first disciples, as opposed to the general public (the crowds who stood apart from Jesus). Jesus' disciples, on this occasion, sat at his feet -literally.

The disciples were being prepared by Jesus' teaching for life in the Kingdom of God (Matthew prefers to say the Kingdom of Heaven so as not to devalue the name of God by overuse). Life in the Kingdom of God requires total commitment. It is not for everybody, although everybody is welcome. It is especially not for those who dismiss lightly God's Kingdom, saying 'it's not for me, but you go ahead if you want to.'

I remember, therefore I am.
tunaafi
Posted: Wednesday, June 11, 2014 2:16:32 PM

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jacobusmaximus wrote:
[quote=tunaafiI fear that in suggesting you read the Sermon on the Mount he has handed you meat that is too strong for you. The Sermon on the Mount was addressed to Jesus' first disciples, as opposed to the general public (the crowds who stood apart from Jesus). Jesus' disciples, on this occasion, sat at his feet -literally.


Sorry. I had assumed that JC was speaking directly to the public. I had forgotten that even in his own lifetime (if he lived) he set up the beginnings of his church because he knew he'd need somebody to interpret his words.

Quite why he didn't make sure from the start that there could be the possibility of misunderstanding I don't know - he was God, after all.
Maryam Dad
Posted: Wednesday, June 11, 2014 9:06:46 PM

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"And peace is on me the day I was born and the day I will die and the day I am raised alive.
That is Jesus, the son of Mary - the word of truth about which they are in dispute."
(Quran, Maryam 33-34)

Kindness is a mark of faith. and whoever is not kind has no faith.
jacobusmaximus
Posted: Thursday, June 12, 2014 4:44:05 AM

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tunaafi wrote:
jacobusmaximus wrote:
[quote=tunaafiI fear that in suggesting you read the Sermon on the Mount he has handed you meat that is too strong for you. The Sermon on the Mount was addressed to Jesus' first disciples, as opposed to the general public (the crowds who stood apart from Jesus). Jesus' disciples, on this occasion, sat at his feet -literally.


Sorry. I had assumed that JC was speaking directly to the public. I had forgotten that even in his own lifetime (if he lived) he set up the beginnings of his church because he knew he'd need somebody to interpret his words.

Quite why he didn't make sure from the start that there could be the possibility of misunderstanding I don't know - he was God, after all.


I stand corrected, tunaffi. Although at the time Jesus was addressing only his disciples, He was indeed speaking to us all today through the Scriptures. So, yes, the Sermon on the Mount is for the general public. But so is Vindaloo and Bhut Jolokia. Not everyone can stomach such strongly spiced food. I know I can't. Yet I lose nothing by not tasting them a second time. Food is to be enjoyed and it is to sustain. So is the Word of God. Anyone who will not persevere with it is the loser.

I remember, therefore I am.
jacobusmaximus
Posted: Thursday, June 12, 2014 8:26:05 AM

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Absurdicuss wrote:

If Jesus really did rise from the dead then every other question, about life, ultimate origins, evolution, the big bang, all scientific inquiry, the existence of morals, laws of logic and every other belief system would become secondary to that fact.



Yes, because if Jesus rose from the dead then all Christian Believers will rise from the dead. But only Christian Believers.

I remember, therefore I am.
ithink140
Posted: Thursday, June 12, 2014 11:17:13 AM

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Jacob opined: Yes, because if Jesus rose from the dead then all Christian Believers will rise from the dead. But only Christian Believers


How wrong can you be? Do you not know of Jesus words?

John 5:28
(NIV)
“Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out...

It was not possible for the countless numbers who died before Jesus came to earth to put faith in him...Jesus died for all mankind and the scriptures speak of a general resurrection. Yes, in the final outcome they will have to learn of the ransom sacrifice and exercise faith, but they will have that chance and depending on their faith or lack of it will get life or their resurrection will prove to be to everlasting death.

You are so sure that you are saved Jacob... have you never read the words:

1 Corinthians 10:12
(NIV)

12 So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall


(NKJV)

12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall

You are overconfident Jacob...but as the scripture says:
Matthew 24:13
(NKJV)


13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved



'Life is too short to be eaten up by hate.'
jacobusmaximus
Posted: Thursday, June 12, 2014 3:48:37 PM

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ithink140 wrote:
Jacob opined: Yes, because if Jesus rose from the dead then all Christian Believers will rise from the dead. But only Christian Believers


How wrong can you be? Do you not know of Jesus words?

John 5:28
(NIV)
“Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out...

Ithink, you are back to your old ways of trying to prove your point by quoting only part of a verse of Scripture. We are talking here about the resurrection of the Believer being in harmony with the Resurrection of Christ, our Saviour. The verse you refer to is : 28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.


It was not possible for the countless numbers who died before Jesus came to earth to put faith in him...Jesus died for all mankind and the scriptures speak of a general resurrection. Yes, in the final outcome they will have to learn of the ransom sacrifice and exercise faith, but they will have that chance and depending on their faith or lack of it will get life or their resurrection will prove to be to everlasting death.

Read verses 2-4 of this chapter and you will see that the Jews in the Wilderness knew that their Spiritual Rock was Christ.

You are so sure that you are saved Jacob... have you never read the words:

1 Corinthians 10:12
(NIV)

12 So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall


(NKJV)

12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall

You are overconfident Jacob...but as the scripture says:
Matthew 24:13
(NKJV)


13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved




Your argument, Ithink, is typical of 'Christians' who seem to be under the impression that Salvation is all about them. All about their decision. That they can walk out on Jesus if they don't have the spiritual assurance they once had. A Christian is married to Christ and cannot get out of that marriage because of his own infidelity. Only Christ can sue for divorce and he will not. 'I will never let you go', he said. 'Nothing can separate us from the love of God'. (Note especially it is not 'Nothing can separate us from our love of God'). Yes we can fall, but enduring to the end does not mean living a faultless life to the end. If it meant that then St. Peter would be in Hell with all the rest of the disciples who ran away from Christ in his hour of need. Enduring to the end means turning to Christ in faith for forgiveness and strength to go on in his Name.

I remember, therefore I am.
ithink140
Posted: Friday, June 13, 2014 5:05:08 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/4/2013
Posts: 2,454
Neurons: 17,922
I give in Jacob... you are so proud and so certain of your personal salvation and you twist the scriptures to suit. You remind me so much of the Pharisees. You may have the last word.

'Life is too short to be eaten up by hate.'
jacobusmaximus
Posted: Friday, June 13, 2014 1:04:06 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/17/2009
Posts: 10,895
Neurons: 341,278
Location: Glasgow, Scotland, United Kingdom
ithink140 wrote:
I give in Jacob... you are so proud and so certain of your personal salvation and you twist the scriptures to suit. You remind me so much of the Pharisees. You may have the last word.


It is very gracious of you, Ithink, to give me the last word. Here it is:
On Christ the Solid Rock I stand
All other ground is sinking sand.


I remember, therefore I am.
Listening . . .
Posted: Friday, June 13, 2014 3:52:38 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/30/2011
Posts: 936
Neurons: 3,812
jacobusmaximus wrote:
ithink140 wrote:
I give in Jacob... you are so proud and so certain of your personal salvation and you twist the scriptures to suit. You remind me so much of the Pharisees. You may have the last word.


It is very gracious of you, Ithink, to give me the last word. Here it is:
On Christ the Solid Rock I stand
All other ground is sinking sand.


Jacob,

I respect your right to believe and live in your chosen comfort zone. However, this quote you have provided as your chosen "last word" to iThink is . . . Bold. Rude. Condescending. It is without the kindness and love that I would hope would be extended to all - If you are God's child, then so are we all. Christ or no Christ. We are all one people on one planet born the same way.

In my belief, the bible is just a book written by man and does not provide the secret passage to only the "special" people. We are all special and we will All go to the same place when we die. However, I would never say something that would express to you that my beliefs are better and, therefore, I am better than you.
Spiral
Posted: Saturday, June 14, 2014 4:02:16 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 8/31/2013
Posts: 266
Neurons: 1,628
jacobusmaximus wrote:

It is very gracious of you, Ithink, to give me the last word. Here it is:
On Christ the Solid Rock I stand
All other ground is sinking sand.


A classic...

"My Hope is Built on Nothing Less"
by Edward Mote, 1797-1874

1. My hope is built on nothing less
Than Jesus' blood and righteousness;
I dare not trust the sweetest frame,
But wholly lean on Jesus' name.
On Christ, the solid Rock, I stand;
All other ground is sinking sand.


2. When darkness veils His lovely face,
I rest on His unchanging grace;
In every high and stormy gale
My anchor holds within the veil.
On Christ, the solid Rock, I stand;
All other ground is sinking sand.


3. His oath, His covenant, and blood
Support me in the whelming flood;
When every earthly prop gives way,
He then is all my Hope and Stay.
On Christ, the solid Rock, I stand;
All other ground is sinking sand.

4. When He shall come with trumpet sound,
Oh, may I then in Him be found,
Clothed in His righteousness alone,
Faultless to stand before the throne!
On Christ, the solid Rock, I stand;
All other ground is sinking sand.


Hymn #370
The Lutheran Hymnal
Text: 1 Timothy 1:1
Author: Edward Mote, c. 1834, cento
Composer: John Stainer, 1873, arr.
Tune: "Magdalen"


Agápē is unconditional love - All of life's problems are solved by this.
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