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Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself, but talent instantly recognizes genius. Options
Daemon
Posted: Monday, May 19, 2014 12:00:00 AM
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Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself, but talent instantly recognizes genius.

Arthur Conan Doyle (1859-1930)
walirlan
Posted: Monday, May 19, 2014 3:35:07 AM

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Usually talent is not enough. Hard work is essential and must be added to your talent!
This combination is great!
You must help your talent.
mythman
Posted: Monday, May 19, 2014 4:52:26 AM

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Experience and guile will always overcome youth and skill.
Samuel Alder
Posted: Monday, May 19, 2014 6:28:33 AM

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Great quote, there is a humility in talent, which has some time in its life proved itself to be true.

I can verify what Mr. Doyle says to be true!
Ray
Posted: Monday, May 19, 2014 7:23:15 AM

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I recognise A.C. Doyle as genius, but does that make me talented?
Bully_rus
Posted: Monday, May 19, 2014 8:10:54 AM
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Daemon wrote:
Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself, but talent instantly recognizes genius.

Arthur Conan Doyle (1859-1930)


For mediocrity that it is nothing more than a popular antidepressant, a healing balm for sore spot. Oh, merciful subconsciousness...
progpen
Posted: Monday, May 19, 2014 11:26:19 AM

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Talent incorporates hard work, skill and knowledge. Talented people are not "naturals" at anything, but are instead sharply honed and tuned instruments built from years of work, study and experience.

Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men.
monamagda
Posted: Monday, May 19, 2014 12:47:53 PM

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I dare to say that better than TALENT the gifts required is WISDOM!!
wisdom implicates DISCERNMENT. Wise people are brilliant and able to see,listen, observe and "read" others.
WISDOM involves, also, perception,sagacity, good sense which usually bring wise people to make well elaborated guess.



Absurdicuss
Posted: Monday, May 19, 2014 1:30:47 PM

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When I see and hear a child guitar virtuoso playing at eight what I'll never accomplish, regardless of my dedication, I am in awe of raw natural ability that preceded a work ethic.

The kid picked it up and in short order began to master the instrument. Hail the Mousai for bequeathing unto me the genius to recognize such talent.

@mona - Yes mam, it was by wisdom that Lynyrd Skynyrd wrote and played Sweet Home Alabama.


"Now" is the eternal present.
progpen
Posted: Monday, May 19, 2014 1:40:39 PM

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When a child picks up a guitar, they do not know how to play until
1). they have worked at it,
2). they have been fortunate enough to have parents/guardians who nurture or allow the child to learn
3). and they have set aside the required time to learn.

No child just sits down to a piano and knows how to play. Saying someone is gifted or a natural as an answer as to how someone has become so accomplished at something belittles the entire process of achievement. Children are as gifted/natural as their environment, family, society, motivation, desire and work ethic will allow.

Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men.
capitán
Posted: Monday, May 19, 2014 2:23:18 PM

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progpen wrote:
When a child picks up a guitar, they do not know how to play until
1). they have worked at it,
2). they have been fortunate enough to have parents/guardians who nurture or allow the child to learn
3). and they have set aside the required time to learn.

No child just sits down to a piano and knows how to play. Saying someone is gifted or a natural as an answer as to how someone has become so accomplished at something belittles the entire process of achievement. Children are as gifted/natural as their environment, family, society, motivation, desire and work ethic will allow.

--- --- ---

What about genetics?
Are the inherited characteristics not important whatsoever?
progpen
Posted: Monday, May 19, 2014 2:27:48 PM

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capitán wrote:
progpen wrote:
When a child picks up a guitar, they do not know how to play until
1). they have worked at it,
2). they have been fortunate enough to have parents/guardians who nurture or allow the child to learn
3). and they have set aside the required time to learn.

No child just sits down to a piano and knows how to play. Saying someone is gifted or a natural as an answer as to how someone has become so accomplished at something belittles the entire process of achievement. Children are as gifted/natural as their environment, family, society, motivation, desire and work ethic will allow.

--- --- ---

What about genetics?
Are the inherited characteristics not important whatsoever?


I'm not saying that nothing else applies. I don't even imply that inherited characteristics are not important.

Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men.
Absurdicuss
Posted: Monday, May 19, 2014 3:25:47 PM

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@Prog - My first post was not meant as a rebuttal, but an addition to your observation. This post is a refutation in part.

1. To quote myself: "The kid picked it up and in short order began to master the instrument." Effort, implied in the statement, which, being accompanied by the rare specialized aptitude we call talent, may be relatively minimal compared to typical experiences - results may vary.

2. Nurture from parents is not a given. The child, or anyone for that matter, could have been encouraged by a sense of ease with the new endeavor which worked to spur him to further exploration.

3. Typically, an eight year old child is not disciplined enough to allocate time on their own, unless it involves fun or candy. But for the rarely talented this time may be far more rewarding and enjoyable; something to look forward to instead of a parent directed chore...which is the usual case.


prog quote: " No child just sits down to a piano and knows how to play. That is an absolute statement that I don't believe you can substantiate.
There are autistic savants that can hear a complex composition one time and play it flawlessly


Mozart had written his first symphony by the age of 5. He was a natural.

Though singing can be learned, a naturally gifted singer is just that - naturally gifted, whether or not they develop the talent to its fullest potential


prog quote:
"Saying someone is gifted or a natural as an answer as to how someone has become so accomplished at something belittles the entire process of achievement."

Natural talent is a fact, the development of which is contingent upon a work ethic in varying degrees. Many are the talented failures in this world who lacked the discipline develop their natural skills.
However to refer to one as a natural, recognizing their innate talent does not in my opinion belittle their achievement.

Finally I understand your, but I don't think you understand that it is not an absolute.




"Now" is the eternal present.
progpen
Posted: Monday, May 19, 2014 3:28:51 PM

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Natural talent is just a result of a lot of different moving parts and variables coming together with a very nice result. Natural talent in a vacuum does not result in anything.

Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men.
progpen
Posted: Monday, May 19, 2014 3:56:49 PM

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Absurdicuss wrote:


Finally I understand your, but I don't think you understand that it is not an absolute.



Hmm, I was saying exactly that. There is no absolute.

I have not made snide remarks about anyone's ability to understand and yet here is a wonderful example above.

Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men.
Levantine
Posted: Monday, May 19, 2014 4:27:18 PM
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Quote:
Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself, but talent instantly recognizes genius.
- AC Doyle


The quote is from the novel "The Valley of Fear," first published in installments from September 1914 to May 1915. (It is the fourth and final Sherlock Holmes novel by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.)

Here's the context:

Quote:
Twice already in his career had Holmes helped him to attain
success, his own sole reward being the intellectual joy of the
problem. For this reason the affection and respect of the
Scotchman for his amateur colleague were profound, and he showed
them by the frankness with which he consulted Holmes in every
difficulty. Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself; but
talent instantly recognizes genius, and MacDonald had talent
enough for his profession to enable him to perceive that there
was no humiliation in seeking the assistance of one who already
stood alone in Europe, both in his gifts and in his experience.


http://www.online-literature.com/doyle/valley_fear/1/

Levantine
Posted: Monday, May 19, 2014 4:53:37 PM
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Quote:
Mozart had written his first symphony by the age of 5.


There are solid reasons to doubt this. Mozart was, when one looks closely, one of the first manufactured musical "icons."

"In remarkable musical research conducted in 2007/8 by Luca Bianchini, Anna Trombetta and Agostino Taboga of Italy the theatre score of the first performance of 'Le Nozze di Figaro' (1786) was analysed in detail from microfiches made at the Austrian National Library, together with the background history of that work. A rare event in Mozart research. The result ? This opera has music NOT by Mozart. It was, in fact, only a hastily made arrangement made by Mozart and da Ponte in Vienna of a work already existing in the German language. Which was staged full of musical and textual errors in its new Italianised form in Vienna in May of 1786. A version that was hissed and booed in its short run in Vienna. Mozart was NOT the composer of this music."

For more see -

http://www.lulu.com/content/2710313

http://www.musicalrevisionism.info/view/articles/1/The-Manufacture-of-Mozart- Preface.html

Quote:
[T]here is growing but little known evidence from detailed study of manuscripts and other lines of evidence that Mozart’s entire career was almost entirely manufactured…..

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message986541/pg1

The music is great, beyond dispute. It's just likely that there was a 19th century version of Disney's studios, where it was produced and edited by artists paid to remain anonymous.

Cheers

Verbatim
Posted: Monday, May 19, 2014 5:05:42 PM
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Daemon wrote:
Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself, but talent instantly recognizes genius.

Arthur Conan Doyle (1859-1930)


Arthur Conan Doyle was not, according to his own edict, amenable to exceptions to his rules: "An exception disproves the rule" he wrote.

But the statement quoted by Daemon is full of potential exceptions. Take "Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself".
It sounds witty, yet mediocrity in many cases knows its own limits through common sense and acts accordingly.

Whereas talent may instantly recognize its better--genius--only to dismiss it through arrogance.

Absurdicuss
Posted: Monday, May 19, 2014 11:22:50 PM

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@prog - What I meant to convey is that I understand what you mean, but I don't think that I was getting across to you the point I intended.

If I came off as snide then please accept my apology as that was not my intent.

prog quote: "Natural talent is just a result of a lot of different moving parts and variables coming together with a very nice result."

Like a talented race car or boat?

This has a tone, IMO, very demeaning to the actuality of natural talent. Like saying Elvis Pressley or Albert Einstein were merely talented

"Natural talent in a vacuum does not result in anything." I'm not sure what you mean here prog please elaborate.


"Now" is the eternal present.
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