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If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. Options
Daemon
Posted: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 12:00:00 AM
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If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared.

Niccolo Machiavelli (1469-1527)
mangezi
Posted: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 12:38:20 AM

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Daemon wrote:
If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared.

Niccolo Machiavelli (1469-1527)
In straight parlance and non-tradesmen jargon, don't make a mistake of leaving him half dead, annihilate him.

I am not a genius. I am just a tremendous bundle of experience - Richard Fuller.
Bully_rus
Posted: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 1:58:06 AM
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Daemon wrote:
If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared.

Niccolo Machiavelli (1469-1527)


It sounds like the manual of self-defence for the inhabitants of Brownsville: eyes, knees, neck... What else?
Bertoray
Posted: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 3:30:24 AM

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And dead men tell no tales.
Marguerite
Posted: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 9:07:04 AM

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Who determines which man needs be so severely injured that he will 'tell no tales'. Notice that the sentence is passive.
pedro
Posted: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 10:29:38 AM

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He's dead right you know. Now, who shall I batter first?

All good ideas arrive by chance- Max Ernst
tintin
Posted: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 10:36:33 AM

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I don't like to joke about violence, so easy to joke when you have not been at the tail end of it. A man like Machiavella is to be pitied, he was a coward.
Christian T
Posted: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 12:05:03 PM

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Though I do not know the specific context of the quote, I think that such sayings reveal the dark side of the human species.
monamagda
Posted: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 1:25:21 PM

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This is the quote in modern Italian: From "The Prince" Chapter III.
"Li uomini si debbono o vezzeggiare o spegnere; perché si vendicano delle leggieri offese, delle gravi non possono: sí che l'offesa che si fa all'uomo debbe essere in modo che la non tema la vendetta.

"Men you must either coddling or extinguish, because they take revenge of trifling offenses, of that severe they couldn't: So then, the offense that ought to be done to the man must be done on that way that you must not be afraid of revenge."
Bully_rus
Posted: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 3:15:49 PM
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to Marguerite

It all depends. According to a legendary Hollywood sources, it was the fastest in the Wild Wild West.
Verbatim
Posted: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 5:39:18 PM
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Daemon wrote:
If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared.

Niccolo Machiavelli (1469-1527)


The quotation is from Chapter III of "The Prince", in the context of colonization versus occupation of new territory.
The entire paragraph can be found here: http://www.pagebypagebooks.com/Nicolo_Machiavelli/The_Prince/CHAPTER_III_p2.html

""A prince does not spend much on colonies, for with little or no expense he can send them out and keep them there, and he offends a minority only of the citizens from whom he takes lands and houses to give them to the new inhabitants; and those whom he offends, remaining poor and scattered, are never able to injure him; whilst the rest being uninjured are easily kept quiet, and at the same time are anxious not to err for fear it should happen to them as it has to those who have been despoiled. In conclusion, I say that these colonies are not costly, they are more faithful, they injure less, and the injured, as has been said, being poor and scattered, cannot hurt. Upon this, one has to remark that men ought either to be well treated or crushed, because they can avenge themselves of lighter injuries, of more serious ones they cannot; therefore the injury that is to be done to a man ought to be of such a kind that one does not stand in fear of revenge. ""

We have to remember the source of Niccolo's wisdom is based on learnings from either antiquity or the medieval times.

What is interesting, however, is his conclusion about the difficulty of keeping the "Prince's" armed men in the occupied territory,
conclusion which seems to have been overlooked over and over again in our modern times conflicts.
The next paragraph must ring a bell:

""But in maintaining armed men there in place of colonies one spends much more, having to consume on the garrison all the income from the state, so that the acquisition turns into a loss, and many more are exasperated, because the whole state is injured; through the shifting of the garrison up and down all become acquainted with hardship, and all become hostile, and they are enemies who, whilst beaten on their own ground, are yet able to do hurt. For every reason, therefore, such guards are as useless as a colony is useful.""
seemo74
Posted: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 7:18:44 PM

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True .
Trivium_Discipulus
Posted: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 7:26:56 PM
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Verbatim wrote:
Daemon wrote:
If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared.

Niccolo Machiavelli (1469-1527)


The quotation is from Chapter III of "The Prince", in the context of colonization versus occupation of new territory.
The entire paragraph can be found here: http://www.pagebypagebooks.com/Nicolo_Machiavelli/The_Prince/CHAPTER_III_p2.html

""A prince does not spend much on colonies, for with little or no expense he can send them out and keep them there, and he offends a minority only of the citizens from whom he takes lands and houses to give them to the new inhabitants; and those whom he offends, remaining poor and scattered, are never able to injure him; whilst the rest being uninjured are easily kept quiet, and at the same time are anxious not to err for fear it should happen to them as it has to those who have been despoiled. In conclusion, I say that these colonies are not costly, they are more faithful, they injure less, and the injured, as has been said, being poor and scattered, cannot hurt. Upon this, one has to remark that men ought either to be well treated or crushed, because they can avenge themselves of lighter injuries, of more serious ones they cannot; therefore the injury that is to be done to a man ought to be of such a kind that one does not stand in fear of revenge. ""

We have to remember the source of Niccolo's wisdom is based on learnings from either antiquity or the medieval times.

What is interesting, however, is his conclusion about the difficulty of keeping the "Prince's" armed men in the occupied territory,
conclusion which seems to have been overlooked over and over again in our modern times conflicts.
The next paragraph must ring a bell:

""But in maintaining armed men there in place of colonies one spends much more, having to consume on the garrison all the income from the state, so that the acquisition turns into a loss, and many more are exasperated, because the whole state is injured; through the shifting of the garrison up and down all become acquainted with hardship, and all become hostile, and they are enemies who, whilst beaten on their own ground, are yet able to do hurt. For every reason, therefore, such guards are as useless as a colony is useful.""


It would seem the Money Power has studied their "The Prince" book and applied it well. Does not Macchiavelli's description nearly perfectly describe the financial warfare being waged upon this land and the apathetic, learned helpless response of the victims?

As for losses when keeping armies in foreign lands... losses for WHOM?

Might I proffer that this tactic serves the interest, pun intended, of the Money Power in that they generate business for themselves, after all debt is their product, they wage monetary/financial against their host vassal states (the Western nations) while, simultaneous, waging physical wars against those they want to force under their Debt Money Tyranny. For example, Syria and the Ukraine.

That's win, win, win, WIN! for the Debt Money Tyrants...

It is hell on Earth for the rest of us as we are all chopped to bits, sometimes literally and sometimes figuratively, by the machinations of their abstract and physical oppression.

It is absolutely brilliant to the point Sun Tzu and Machiavelli would stand in utter awe at what has been conjured based on their inspirations.

Think in terms of debt generation machines (Bankster profit and control maximization devices) and the pieces of the puzzle start to fit together.

The best way to control the opposition is to finance it. Birds of prey have two wings; the left wing & right wing.
pedro
Posted: Wednesday, May 07, 2014 4:04:43 AM

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to tintin;

Machiavelli was himself tortured by the Medici's. 'The Prince' was an attempt to curry favour with the current seat of power- a sort of guidebook on realpolitik. Incidentally he refused to confess to any misdeed despite being tortured for days and weeks so I am not sure how that makes him a coward- a cunning self preservationist perhaps.

All good ideas arrive by chance- Max Ernst
TheParser
Posted: Wednesday, May 07, 2014 8:05:53 AM
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I guess that is why the Communists murdered the czar and his family. So long as the czar was living, he would be an inspiration for many people who wanted to overthrow the Communists. So he had to be ...

When Castro first tried to overthrow the Cuban government, he failed. The government did not follow Machiavelli's advice, so ...

And just think of what misery the world would have been spared if Adolf H----- had been "neutralized" when he failed the first time to take over the government!

History abounds with such examples.

Is that why the American government is using drones to "neutralize" terrorists?
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Wednesday, May 07, 2014 8:34:42 AM

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The Parser wrote:
Quote:
Is that why the American government is using drones to "neutralize" terrorists?

It would appear not. They are not disabling the real leaders to the point at which no revenge is possible.

Maybe a few outspoken 'public' figures, lots of followers and pawns.
They are getting nowhere near the head.

A good example would have been JFK - he threatened someone just that bit too much without destroying them.


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
TheParser
Posted: Wednesday, May 07, 2014 10:10:28 AM
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Drag0nspeaker wrote:

They are getting nowhere near the head.





American law NOW prohibits the government from "neutralizing" foreign leaders.

In the "good old days," the United States directly neutralized certain leaders or had the armies in those countries do the deed.

You will remember that the United States tried several times to "retire" Cuba's Castro, including trying to get him to smoke a poison-filled cigar.

Some people think that it would great if the president could order a drone to neutralize [fill in your tyrant of choice].
beefsteak101
Posted: Wednesday, May 07, 2014 2:39:53 PM

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I thought high levels of "punishment" should be exacted upon the Nigerian terrorists after they bragged of their kidnapping of the schoolgirls. If these acts were to not be tolerated by ANY society, the cancer in the human species should be treated with extreme predjudice, IMO. That being said, I don't believe retribution and revenge has caused cruelty to subside in the human psyche. Go figure...
TheParser
Posted: Thursday, May 08, 2014 5:31:35 AM
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beefsteak101 wrote:
I thought high levels of "punishment" should be exacted upon the Nigerian terrorists after they bragged of their kidnapping of the schoolgirls.



As you know, the United States has announced that it IS sending troops to help free the hostages and to catch the bad guys.

(Some people are disappointed, however, that American soldiers cannot save the Ukraine and Syria. But, as the experts explain, even the United States of America cannot do everything!)
Verbatim
Posted: Friday, May 09, 2014 8:21:33 PM
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I can see how "some people" are disappointed to miss the action in Ukraine and Syria. "Some people" will do anything for employment or fun, even get tangled in other people's quarrels.
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