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The Notre-Dame Affair (1950) Options
Daemon
Posted: Wednesday, April 9, 2014 12:00:00 AM
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The Notre-Dame Affair (1950)

The Notre-Dame Affair was an anti-Catholic intervention performed by radical members of the Lettrist movement on Easter Sunday 1950. During a quiet moment in the Easter High Mass, Michel Mourre, disguised as a Dominican monk, climbed to the rostrum and declaimed a blasphemous anti-sermon on the death of God. Not surprisingly, his statements enraged the thousands of faithful present at the mass, who went after Mourre and his co-conspirators and may well have lynched them had it not been for whom? More...
MechPebbles
Posted: Wednesday, April 9, 2014 1:56:33 AM

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It's interesting that this attack on religion instead caused the group to splinter.
MechPebbles
Posted: Wednesday, April 9, 2014 1:56:34 AM

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thar
Posted: Wednesday, April 9, 2014 2:52:40 AM

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It is no coincidence that he was an ex-monk himself.

I find this also on my occasional fearful forays into the religions forum here - it is always people from inside a religion who are the most concerned with hating it - the ones outside are usually fine and tolerant about it.

It is the same with converts so often being far more radical and dangerous than those safely brought up in a faith.

But then they spew their own problems over everybody else!
MechPebbles
Posted: Wednesday, April 9, 2014 6:09:47 AM

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thar wrote:
It is no coincidence that he was an ex-monk himself.

I find this also on my occasional fearful forays into the religions forum here - it is always people from inside a religion who are the most concerned with hating it - the ones outside are usually fine and tolerant about it.

It is the same with converts so often being far more radical and dangerous than those safely brought up in a faith.

But then they spew their own problems over everybody else!

_______________________

I'm not sure if this is related to your post, but I read recently in an article that said of all the people in the world, atheists spend the most time mulling over, spew the most words about and express the strongest emotions against the Being they say does not exist.
curmudgeonine
Posted: Wednesday, April 9, 2014 8:31:17 AM

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Interesting article. thank you
Haz
Posted: Wednesday, April 9, 2014 8:35:30 AM

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It was their arrest by police that saved them from being torn to pieces by the caring, loving christians!

I wouldn't mind but his speech was mostly accurate.

It can also be seen that back in those days the church still held a great deal of power:

"The police and the Church, for their part, unable to let the insult pass unpunished, nevertheless wanted to avoid amplifying it through a public trial. After a few days they brought in a psychiatrist of questionable integrity, who recommended locking Mourre away in an asylum. Participants in the Combat debate, attentive to the case, protested, and upon the intervention of a second psychiatrist, Mourre was released on 21 April."

Thank GOD they do not have the same hold on us any more.

MechPebbles, I can imagine it was a religious type that wrote that about atheists!
MechPebbles
Posted: Wednesday, April 9, 2014 10:20:40 AM

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Haz wrote:
It was their arrest by police that saved them from being torn to pieces by the caring, loving christians!

I wouldn't mind but his speech was mostly accurate.

It can also be seen that back in those days the church still held a great deal of power:

"The police and the Church, for their part, unable to let the insult pass unpunished, nevertheless wanted to avoid amplifying it through a public trial. After a few days they brought in a psychiatrist of questionable integrity, who recommended locking Mourre away in an asylum. Participants in the Combat debate, attentive to the case, protested, and upon the intervention of a second psychiatrist, Mourre was released on 21 April."

Thank GOD they do not have the same hold on us any more.

MechPebbles, I can imagine it was a religious type that wrote that about atheists!

_______________________

Yeah, Haz, I'm sure we'll all be so much better off living under loving atheists like Stalin, Mao Tse Tung and Pol Pot.
Marguerite
Posted: Wednesday, April 9, 2014 10:53:49 AM

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Here is the text of Micheal Moure's sermon given from the pulpit of the Notre Dame Cathedral:

Today, Easter day of the Holy Year,
Here, under the emblem of Notre-Dame of Paris,
I accuse the universal Catholic Church of the lethal diversion of our living strength toward an empty heaven,
I accuse the Catholic Church of swindling,
I accuse the Catholic Church of infecting the world with its funereal morality,
Of being the running sore on the decomposed body of the West.
Verily I say unto you: God is dead,
We vomit the agonizing insipidity of your prayers,
For your prayers have been the greasy smoke over the battlefields of our Europe.
Go forth then into the tragic and exalting desert of a world where God is dead,
And till this earth anew with your bare hands,
With your PROUD hands,
With your unpraying hands.
Today Easter day of the Holy Year,
Here under the emblem of Notre-Dame of Paris,
We proclaim the death of the Christ-god, so that Man may live at last.

For me the most important words are "empty heaven". The Church without the least proof or certainty promotes Heaven as the place where we will meet our just reward. The only place we know for a certainty is the life that we have here on earth. No one has seen God or talked to God. We talk to each other . We should work to make our life here on paradise earth a better place.
Haz
Posted: Wednesday, April 9, 2014 2:06:12 PM

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I wasn't suggesting atheism either, MechPebbles. Why does it have to be either/or? Besides the fact that, religion or atheism, both are used as tools by ALL the leaders.

And remember Hitler was a loving Catholic, the religion I myself was born into. The religion that did/does nothing about slavery, colonialism, child abuse, corporate abuse, sexism, anti-gay propaganda, anti-condom, anti... anti... anti. And I know it's not just the catholics.

This is my parent's religion and they are beautiful, caring people who use their religion as it should be used. To help them achieve a caring, thoughtful community. Their reach is not long as they are not super-powerful but their goal was achieved within their family.

There is a third choice, my preference, which is irreligion. This, like religion, has many, many theories; two of which I offer for your perusal).

Agnosticism is the view that the truth values of certain claims—especially claims about the existence or non-existence of any deity, as well as other religious and metaphysical claims—are unknown or unknowable. According to the philosopher William L. Rowe, in the popular sense, an agnostic is someone who neither believes nor disbelieves in the existence of a deity or deities, whereas a theist and an atheist believe and disbelieve, respectively.

Theism, in the broadest sense, is the belief that at least one deity exists.[1] In a more specific sense, theism is commonly a monotheistic doctrine concerning the nature of a deity, and that deity's relationship to the universe. Theism, in this specific sense, conceives of God as personal, present and active in the governance and organization of the world and the universe. As such theism describes the classical conception of God that is found in Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Sikhism and Hinduism. The use of the word theism to indicate this classical form of monotheism began during the scientific revolution of the seventeenth century in order to distinguish it from the then-emerging deism which contended that God, though transcendent and supreme, did not intervene in the natural world and could be known rationally but not via revelation. The term theism derives from the Greek theos meaning "god".

The list could go on but if you are interested go on this link and browse the box on the right-hand side to discover more than two theories on existence:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnosticism

I would like to add that my mum has a terminal illness and I pray to something that she will suffer no pain and enjoy her final months/years. I do not hold to any anger or upset about my mum dying (she is 76 and I am lucky to have experienced her love and kindness for this long). As with all of us, her death is inevitable and I have to prepare myself for MY lose when she does die. She will be returning home but I will miss her.

In my opinion life is about loving and caring and achieving as much as we can in a positive, enriching way. We neither need belief nor disbelief to perform these things. We only need to perform these things!



monamagda
Posted: Wednesday, April 9, 2014 2:19:27 PM

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"The Church and the Kingdom"
By Giorgio Agamben

The Italian philosopher Giorgio Agamben, gave a speech in the Cathedral of Notre Dame, in Paris, in 2009, invited by the Bishop of Paris.
His message in this speech was the same that the Lettrist movement on Easter Sunday, 60 years before gave to the Roman Catholic Church
in the Notre-Dame affair, just more polite, erudite and calm!

This book is a published version of the March, 2009 lecture given by Agamben to the ecclesiastical polity of that archdioceses.
In it, he articulates his critique of the church even more biting and "damning" than the Lettrists' explicit negations.
The writing is beautiful and printed with very beautiful but bizarre photographs.
Worthy reading
Haz
Posted: Wednesday, April 9, 2014 2:33:30 PM

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Thanks monamagda. I love learning.

It's true that if you wish to get your point across it is best to be calm and rational. It is also best not to go out of your way to insult people's beliefs.

I tend to believe that when people are ranting and raving and doing their utmost to insult you, they have been badly hurt or terribly treated in some way and have received no recompense or relief. Otherwise they are just ignorant, prejudiced and sad.
kenturner1
Posted: Wednesday, April 9, 2014 5:50:44 PM

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Whether someone acknowledges, believes or disbelieves the existence of God and Christ, why go to the biggest Christian denomination on their holiest of Holidays and disrespect them on their day on their turf? If his belief system is so correct, why take this tact to get the message out?

**DISCLAIMER**
MechPebbles
Posted: Thursday, April 10, 2014 4:46:21 AM

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kenturner1 wrote:
Whether someone acknowledges, believes or disbelieves the existence of God and Christ, why go to the biggest Christian denomination on their holiest of Holidays and disrespect them on their day on their turf? If his belief system is so correct, why take this tact to get the message out?

_______________________________

Exactly.Applause

Unfortunately, to most people tolerance is a one-way thing.
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