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Better beans and bacon in peace than cakes and ale in fear. Options
Daemon
Posted: Friday, April 4, 2014 12:00:00 AM
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Better beans and bacon in peace than cakes and ale in fear.

Aesop (620 BC-560 BC)
Bully_rus
Posted: Friday, April 4, 2014 4:09:18 AM
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Some fear to lose ale and cakes, some - beans and bacon. Bacon and beans don't guarantee peace and order, alas.
IMcRout
Posted: Friday, April 4, 2014 5:40:21 AM

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Fabulous!
curmudgeonine
Posted: Friday, April 4, 2014 8:58:51 AM

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I'll have to use this quote!
Miriam...
Posted: Friday, April 4, 2014 9:39:56 AM

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I so love Aesop and his sayings.:) Thank you Daemon for bringing Aesop and his wisdom to the forum.
ithink140
Posted: Friday, April 4, 2014 10:05:22 AM

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Solomon beat him to it by 400 years

Proverbs 17:1 (NIV)



17 Better a dry crust with peace and quiet
than a house full of feasting, with strife
tavolivas
Posted: Friday, April 4, 2014 11:12:21 AM

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Awesome!
Haz
Posted: Friday, April 4, 2014 11:33:46 AM

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For sure.

This should be the 'quote of the week'.
capitán
Posted: Friday, April 4, 2014 12:07:22 PM

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ithink140 wrote:

Solomon beat him to it by 400 years

Proverbs 17:1 (NIV)



17 Better a dry crust with peace and quiet
than a house full of feasting, with strife

---

Only if you believe in the bible.
Which, of course, I don't.

Romans were good at stealing from other people; they assimilated greek general knowledge, arts and architecture.
Remember how they assimilated the greek religion as well? Odysseus = Ulysses / Athena = Minerva.

Roman Emperor Constantine, the one who produced the bible, assimilated the jewish religion and organized it into Christianity.
Constantine organized this assimilation of creeds into Holy Roman Catholic Church.
Yes, its origin is not semitic; it is not Israel the origin of Christianity but it is entirely Roman.

Then, Christians not only terrorized the pagan peoples, bringing the sword and the cross,
but also built churches on pagan sites and adopted their forms of worship so that pagans became christians.
Also, coming up with Christ's birthday on 25th December, they took over Easter to do the same thing with the pagan festivals, adopting such methods of worship.


So, isn't it possible that they stole Aesop's words as well?
After all, the bible was created by romans, experts on stealing and lying.
Its origin is far from divine inspiration.

Though Aesop's existence is not certain, he lived long before the bible was created (Aisōpos, c. 620–564 BCE).
Now, supposedly Solomon existed and wrote such words…only according to the bible.

Trivium_Discipulus
Posted: Friday, April 4, 2014 1:45:54 PM
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capitán wrote:
ithink140 wrote:

Solomon beat him to it by 400 years

Proverbs 17:1 (NIV)



17 Better a dry crust with peace and quiet
than a house full of feasting, with strife

---

Only if you believe in the bible.
Which, of course, I don't.

Romans were good at stealing from other people; they assimilated greek general knowledge, arts and architecture.
Remember how they assimilated the greek religion as well? Odysseus = Ulysses / Athena = Minerva.

Roman Emperor Constantine, the one who produced the bible, assimilated the jewish religion and organized it into Christianity.
Constantine organized this assimilation of creeds into Holy Roman Catholic Church.
Yes, its origin is not semitic; it is not Israel the origin of Christianity but it is entirely Roman.

Then, Christians not only terrorized the pagan peoples, bringing the sword and the cross,
but also built churches on pagan sites and adopted their forms of worship so that pagans became christians.
Also, coming up with Christ's birthday on 25th December, they took over Easter to do the same thing with the pagan festivals, adopting such methods of worship.


So, isn't it possible that they stole Aesop's words as well?
After all, the bible was created by romans, experts on stealing and lying.
Its origin is far from divine inspiration.

Though Aesop's existence is not certain, he lived long before the bible was created (Aisōpos, c. 620–564 BCE).
Now, supposedly Solomon existed and wrote such words…only according to the bible.



1. Appeal to authority is a fallacy, just like rejection based on authority is a fallacy. The entire point is that the SOURCE of an idea does not determine the validity or invalidity of an idea, the idea stands on its own and one has to apply their own intellect to determine whether the idea is accurate or not. One can believe a poor, peaceful home is preferable to a strife filled home and not believe the Bible's main claims.

2. The Bible warns of Christian imposters, so pointing them out doesn't discredit the Bible itself. I'm horrified by what self proclaimed Christians have done in the past and even do to this day (essentially support the world's biggest lying, thieving and mass murdering oligarchy in human history).

"For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many."
Mat 24:5

Who comes in Jesus names and says that Jesus is Christ? Self proclaimed Christians, that's who. I'm unaware of anyone, ever, coming is Jesus name and them proclaiming themselves to actually be "the Christ." I'm sure some lunatics have done it, but "many" does not describe this band of crazy and/or deceitful people.

What evidence do you have that the entirety of the Bible was written by the Roman establishment or, at least, not by the people who claim ownership of it?

Also, how do you reconcile the Dead Sea Scrolls allegedly written circa 200 BC with Romans, presumably establishment Romans, writing the Bible post 27 B.C.

A book you might find interesting is Caesar's Messiah. The author is interviewed here:

Red Ice Radio - Joseph Atwill - Hour 1 - Caesar's Messiah, The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuqwmMpV2oo

I think his line of reasoning is very accurate, however, its foundation is based solely on the fake Christianity of the "many" that is helping to deceive the world (another prophecy of the Bible...).

There are true, Spirit led Christians out there, but they aren't part of the (Beast System] establishment, they are out there resisting it and exposing it as the complete wicked lying, thieving, and mass murdering fraud that it is.

Yes, anything is possible. If the Bible is Supernatural based then the unlikely can happen.

My advice is to follow the admonition of Aristotle and examine your own life against the mirror of "caring for others equal to oneself."

Anyone who does that with a sincere heart, regardless of their religion or lack thereof, will find favor with the God of all that is good in God's own time frame.

It is those people who lack the simple understanding that caring for others equal to oneself is paramount to a quality human life for all that make this world the absolute hell hole that it is today.

And if one doesn't understand it is a hell hole then one hasn't much cared about the lives of billions of other people on this globe, and one would do well to follow Aristotle's advice, IMHO.
Trivium_Discipulus
Posted: Friday, April 4, 2014 2:01:15 PM
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Daemon wrote:
Better beans and bacon in peace than cakes and ale in fear.

Aesop (620 BC-560 BC)


On a simple level this is quite right.

However, when the monetary system is systematically impoverishing people around the globe, the beans and rice will not be available and all that will be left is nothing with a whole lot of fear.

That is why people need to 1. End their Establishment Stockholm Syndrome (the Establishment is always the most wicked entity within a State - always. Yes, Hitler gave welfare, too, it didn't make him good. Stalin said he was for the little people, too, it didn't make him good.) and/or 2. Move beyond their learned helplessness.

Get educated, get active informing the masses suffering from immonetaracy (neologism meaning monetary illiteracy) and resist the monetary fascist system that keeps humanity in a yoke of bondage.

A list of easy, but effective, actions are detailed on page 2 of the Debt Money Tyranny PDF:

Debt Money Tyranny
http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/4768883/debtmoneytyranny-6-1-pdf-60k?tr=77

“In our time, the curse is monetary illiteracy, just as inability to read plain print was the curse of earlier centuries.”
― Ezra Pound

"Money is a new form of slavery, and distinguishable from the old simply by the fact that it is impersonal - that there is no human relation between master and slave."
Leo Tolstoy (1828 - 1910)

"Fiat issued debt money is an engineered artificial monetary constraint that enforces a zero sum monetary system and systematically conveys the monetary wealth of ordinary people to the system's tiny owner class, and those that most closely serve the tiny owner class, such that a neo-feudalist system can be covertly established upon the inhabitants of Earth."
~Trivium Discipulus simply putting into words what I'm observing go on around me

Poverty is not a Choice (Poverty is not a bug, it is a FEATURE of a debt based money system)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juQc0rLdB-E

How to be a Crook
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oHbwdNcHbc

An abstract monetary weapon is being pointed directly at your head and the heads of your family, including your children. Especially your children.

Wake up and take positive action to resist this evil (page 2 of the linked PDF) and help educated your community.
Gishar
Posted: Friday, April 4, 2014 2:13:26 PM

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I like that. It's true and i have experienced it
Verbatim
Posted: Friday, April 4, 2014 3:03:16 PM
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Daemon wrote:
Better beans and bacon in peace than cakes and ale in fear.

Aesop (620 BC-560 BC)


That doesn't mean one can have beans and bacon in peace and eat them too. Now the crust, that's different.

"A crust eaten in peace is better than a banquet partaken in anxiety."
Aesop, The Town Mouse and the Country Mouse
Dr. Mohammed Albadri
Posted: Friday, April 4, 2014 3:08:47 PM

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Location: Baghdad, Mayorality of Baghdad, Iraq
a absolutely right
Levantine
Posted: Friday, April 4, 2014 4:02:52 PM
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Trivium Discipulus:
Quote:
An abstract monetary weapon is being pointed directly at your head and the heads of your family, including your children. Especially your children.
Wake up and take positive action to resist this evil (page 2 of the linked PDF) and help educated your community.


1. An abstract monetary weapon is also pointed at me by a head of my family.
2. I have no children.
3. I have no community.
ithink140
Posted: Friday, April 4, 2014 5:26:32 PM

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It seems you know little of the Bible or of religious history Capitan. You are wrong on almost every point you make and it is plain you do not write from knowledge, but from prejudice. Have you read the Bible?

Solomon‘s life crossed over from the 11 Century BC to the 10th 997BC to be exact. Constantine was not converted until the 4th century CE and the Council of Nicaea was held in 32 CE. There was 1300 hundred years separating the life of Solomon and Constantine.

Furthermore, the Bible Canon was completed in the first century of our common era. And there is a fragment of John’s Gospel dating to the early second century (Papyrus 457 P52) Added to that is the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls whereby a lengthy part of the book of Isaiah was found dating to the 3rd century before Christ. The Bible was even Codex form from early in the 2nd century.

Proverbs was collected in final form in 717BCE under the auspices of King Hezekiah and although Solomon was the main writer King Lemuel and Agur also contributed in a minor way.

Constantine did not assimilate the Jewish religion he gave credence to a now corrupted Christian religion thereby being the former of Christendom. The True Christian religion was never Jewish...the Jews got left behind by God and a new Religion to its place approved by God. As Paul said there is neither Jew nor Greek for the purpose of worship in true Christianity... added to which the Bible of Christ's day was in the Koine Greek language.

You are right on one point, the assimilation of pagan rites into the pseudo Christianity of the 4th Century CE. December the 25th was the Roman's day when they worshipped the god Sol and gave each other gifts. Constantine with his cohorts 'Christianised many of the pagan ways of worship in order to win then over to what he thought was Christianity.



Haz
Posted: Friday, April 4, 2014 6:19:56 PM

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Trivium Discipulus wrote: My advice is to follow the admonition of Aristotle and examine your own life against the mirror of "caring for others equal to oneself."

Anyone who does that with a sincere heart, regardless of their religion or lack thereof, will find favor with the God of all that is good in God's own time frame.


HERE HERE.

Religions are ruined by the power-hungry, greedy tyrants who lead them and are used as a means of controlling the people.

Everyone must remember also that Jesus was not the first to proclaim the ONE GOD theory:

Akhenaton, born Amenhotep IV (around 1390 BCE), was the son of Amenhotep III and his chief queen Tiy. While little is recorded about his life prior to taking the throne, it is known that he succeeded his father at the end of a thirty-eight-year reign, and is believed to have ruled from about 1350 BCE to 1333 BCE, a brief seventeen years before dying (or being assassinated) in about 1336 BCE.

Displeased with the state of the Egyptian society, Amenhotep IV set out to restore the Empire to its once great and exalted glory. Deciding that Egypt was in need of complete social reform, he set out to revolutionize Egyptian's religious system by first displacing the temple priests.

Then, changing his name from Amenhotep, which essentially meant "Serviceable to Amon, the god ruler of Thebes," to Akhenaton, meaning "Serviceable to Aton (the single, universal god and source of all life; represented by the sun disk), Akhenaton became the first ruler in known history to represent monotheism, the belief in one god rather than many. He then decided to implement wide-sweeping religious reform as no ruler had even attempted before.

Akhenaton, however, would not allow his subjects direct access to Aton, claiming that only he could converse with his god; thus, requiring them to worship him and him alone. Oral tradition tells of Akhenaton conducting religious ceremonies under the heat of sun which all subjects were required to attend--often utilizing his army to enforce his decrees. But within a decade, Akhenaton was dead, and the people of Egypt quickly returned to their old religious systems..

After Akhenaton's death the backlash forced his son, Tutankhamon, to reverse the move to monotheism and return to the worship of many gods.
http://voices.yahoo.com/akhenaton-egyptian-pharaoh-one-god-7889050.html


Each new super-power whether Greek, Roman, European, American have all stolen their ideas and values from previous cultures without giving due credit.
Trivium_Discipulus
Posted: Friday, April 4, 2014 7:31:35 PM
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Hi Haz,

While I disagree with the author's premise that establishment "Christianity" is "Christianity," I found much of the material covered in his Caesar's Messiah book interview fascinating.

Red Ice Radio - Joseph Atwill - Hour 1 - Caesar's Messiah, The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuqwmMpV2oo

He basically asserts that the oligarchs running the world are using the Bible as an actual blueprint of oppression. I think he may well be right.

However, I disagree with his ultimate conclusion, though, that the Bible is inherently bad. No, the people who use it for nefarious purposes are bad and proof-texting the Bible in an evil and self serving way, not in a way consistent with caring about others equal to oneself.

I'm going to say something that I think will take most people aback - God has no intrinsic value at all.

Let me explain. God's only value is in His alignment with goodness.

Goodness has intrinsic value and God has value inasmuch as he's aligned with the intrinsic value of goodness.

The skeptics will counter with what they believe to be God killing off people in the old testament... how could that be good?

It is a matter of perspective, IMHO. If the trials and tribulations of this life (including our eventual death) increase the probability of our understanding the need to commit to goodness FOR ETERNITY, then what seems cold blooded looks a lot more reasonable and just might equate to an act of love and goodness.

As an analogy, when our children are reaching for that beautiful red hot stove, some will smack that hand out of love and concern for their child's future. Is such a parent evil? I don't think so.

God might temporarily allow us to be hurt, in fact He might actually cause hurt Himself, but he does it all to ensure that our ETERNAL FUTURE IS SECURE.

Out of love and goodness for our wretched souls.
capitán
Posted: Friday, April 4, 2014 9:04:09 PM

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Hi again, ithink140, it is always nice to discuss ideas with you.

Yes, I have read the bible; my father was a pastor. I, also, was a believer.
It is not prejudice; it is that I have known the religious life, for I was born in a Christian family.
And yes, Solomon supposedly was born long before the Romans, I haven’t said the contrary.

True, you are right on the salvation theme:
because the Jews didn’t believe in Jesus, salvation opened up to all of us.
It is the bible that says so.

The point here is:
Solomon is not a historical character.
Therefore, that the book of proverbs was written by him and his friends is still pretty much arguable.
Now, the dating of the proverbs is not clear because they are a collection of sayings throughout a long period.
---

As for what Trivium Discipulus said,
I think Haz has put it into the right words after all.
I know that the bible also said that among christians, some might try to fool us all.
But sincerely, I can´t say that is a surprise AT ALL.
---

Haz, again, how nice it is to read what you have to say.
Haz
Posted: Friday, April 4, 2014 9:52:26 PM

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Thank you for the link Trivium Discipulus; excellent information which can only assist in my development.

To capitan, thank you for your kind words. I have only been a member for a month and I am enjoying these discussions immensely. What I find so nice about this forum is the lovely humour and consideration everyone appears to have for one another. People seem to be genuine and I feel no malice in these discussions; very refreshing indeed.

Thank you everyone for making this a place I love to come to.

Marguerite
Posted: Friday, April 4, 2014 9:56:34 PM

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I love Capitan and the discussion that followed his post.
WanglerExtraordinaire
Posted: Friday, April 4, 2014 10:51:17 PM

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I believe in the long run, given the choice, I would prefer beans and bacon.
capitán
Posted: Saturday, April 5, 2014 12:54:17 AM

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Thanks, Marguerite, I appreciate it!
I've noticed also your participation in the forum. Keep it up!

To Haz, again, I think I know what you mean.
It certainly is a place where we can say what we want.
I enjoy everybody's participation and appreciate their words.
The humor, the perspectives, the new information...it all makes me feel comfortable as well.
ithink140
Posted: Saturday, April 5, 2014 4:16:33 AM

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Correction 325 CE was the Council of Nicaea.( Typo)
Verbatim
Posted: Saturday, April 5, 2014 2:43:52 PM
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Daemon wrote:
Better beans and bacon in peace than cakes and ale in fear.

Aesop (620 BC-560 BC)


The difference between peace (of mind) and fear is sometimes found in desire.
And nothing is more desirable than peace of mind: the permanent state of contentment and acceptance of what was doled out to you as your lot.

Yet again: "If your desires be endless, your cares and fears will be so, too."
- Thomas Fuller
kenturner1
Posted: Wednesday, April 9, 2014 6:23:20 PM

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Great quote. Great posts. Thanks. I just find it entertaining that the first thing someone does to show intellectual superiority is to disprove the Bible.
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