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Children have a natural antipathy to books--handicraft should be the basis of education. Boys and girls should be taught to... Options
Daemon
Posted: Friday, February 28, 2014 12:00:00 AM
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Children have a natural antipathy to books--handicraft should be the basis of education. Boys and girls should be taught to use their hands to make something, and they would be less apt to destroy and be mischievous.

Oscar Wilde (1854-1900)
Apedo Jeomey Bright
Posted: Saturday, March 1, 2014 1:23:28 AM

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I like the quote because it is always good to taught boys and girls to use their hands to do something or to work than for them to used their hands to be stealing here and there or to do nothing,there is a saying that work is man.
Doce
Posted: Saturday, March 1, 2014 2:34:07 AM

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I must have been un-natural. :)))
I've always loved books. I agree it's a good idea to do something with your hands - I can be found knitting or working on some intricate embroidery while listening to a movie, but it doesn't come even close to my passion for books.

The One ;)
rogermue
Posted: Saturday, March 1, 2014 3:01:17 AM

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It is really the question whether Oscar Wilde is right with his view. My experience is different. Young children like to hear fairy tales
and when they are able to read they like to read when they are given the right books.
I think it is a matter of schools and parents.

But in one thing Wilde is right. Manual skills should be encouraged and fostered. That is something where schools are not very good.
The only manul thing we did at school was painting. And though I have some talent for painting I must say when looking backwards at my school years
the education in painting was poor, if not to say miserable.
jacobusmaximus
Posted: Saturday, March 1, 2014 3:34:46 AM

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Daemon wrote:
Children have a natural antipathy to books--handicraft should be the basis of education. Boys and girls should be taught to use their hands to make something, and they would be less apt to destroy and be mischievous.

Oscar Wilde (1854-1900)


I think Oscar has missed out the word 'some' several times here.

I remember, therefore I am.
Doce
Posted: Saturday, March 1, 2014 3:51:45 AM

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rogermue wrote:
It is really the question whether Oscar Wilde is right with his view. My experience is different. Young children like to hear fairy tales
and when they are able to read they like to read when they are given the right books.
I think it is a matter of schools and parents.

But in one thing Wilde is right. Manual skills should be encouraged and fostered. That is something where schools are not very good.
The only manul thing we did at school was painting. And though I have some talent for painting I must say when looking backwards at my school years
the education in painting was poor, if not to say miserable.


I'd love to see some of your paintings. :)

The One ;)
abrar
Posted: Saturday, March 1, 2014 4:16:44 AM
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Children are natural seekers of happiness if you have observed, we teach our children or not it doesn't matter they will get some sense with the passage of time. the point is whenever a child enters in our life we think that it is time to teach but we never thought that it is the right time to learn from child becasue when you compare yourself with a child, you will find that child is much more happy and he must be the consultant for life not you.

I haven't given this privilege to anybody to make me happy or angry.....SADHGURU
Panos
Posted: Saturday, March 1, 2014 5:41:30 AM

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Children are raised to have an antipathy to books

"Εν οίδα, ότι ουδέν οίδα" Socrates
Gustavo de S Consoni
Posted: Saturday, March 1, 2014 6:46:30 AM

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rogermue wrote:
It is really the question whether Oscar Wilde is right with his view. My experience is different. Young children like to hear fairy tales
and when they are able to read they like to read when they are given the right books.
I think it is a matter of schools and parents.

But in one thing Wilde is right. Manual skills should be encouraged and fostered. That is something where schools are not very good.
The only manul thing we did at school was painting. And though I have some talent for painting I must say when looking backwards at my school years
the education in painting was poor, if not to say miserable.


Rogermue, I do agree with you! My experience is different. I was born in a farm and I was free to play with other children, walk, run... etc... These activities, I think, maybe had constructed part of my personality. But, at the same time, at that time I was able to exercise my criativity. I was used to make my objects to having fun.
In my opinion, the children should have more contact to the nature. When they get 5, maybe, the books should take part of their lives.
TheParser
Posted: Saturday, March 1, 2014 7:15:08 AM
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Here in the United States, our schools are insisting that EVERY student go to the university.

This is, of course, ridiculous.

Many students are not university material.

We need workers who can fix computers, who can be competent nurses, who can repair autombiles, etc.

In my city, the bigwigs decided that no student could be graduated from high school unless he passed an algebra test.

Well, many students could not pass the algebra test.

Guess what!

The bigwigs said, "Our bad! Forget it! You can still be graduated even if you do not understand algebra."

Many students would be happier and less disruptive if they knew that they were being trained for good-paying and secure jobs in the various trades.
rogermue
Posted: Saturday, March 1, 2014 7:29:54 AM

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Doce wrote:
rogermue wrote:
It is really the question whether Oscar Wilde is right with his view. My experience is different. Young children like to hear fairy tales
and when they are able to read they like to read when they are given the right books.
I think it is a matter of schools and parents.

But in one thing Wilde is right. Manual skills should be encouraged and fostered. That is something where schools are not very good.
The only manul thing we did at school was painting. And though I have some talent for painting I must say when looking backwards at my school years
the education in painting was poor, if not to say miserable.


I'd love to see some of your paintings. :)


I posted some for Hope2. I think they are in the thread about the Amish people in the east of the USA, the area around Pennsylvania or so
and who speak a kind of old German. Must have a look where to find this thread.

Sorry, I can't find the pictures anymore. Maybe I can download some from photobucket. But at the moment, I' m wrting with a tablet.
writing is a bit cumbersome and it seems photobucket does not like my tablet.
rogermue
Posted: Saturday, March 1, 2014 7:51:06 AM

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To Parser and Gustavo

How right you are!
curmudgeonine
Posted: Saturday, March 1, 2014 8:12:07 AM

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I disagree with the first part, in that every child I've ever known has LOVED books. The second half of the quote is quite sound, though.
IMcRout
Posted: Saturday, March 1, 2014 9:01:57 AM

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Did Oscar Wilde actually know any children?
I have not so far known him as a profound educational expert or as a psychologist.

I totally take back all those times I didn't want to nap when I was younger. (Anon)
youme
Posted: Saturday, March 1, 2014 10:26:04 AM
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I do agree with that, when we teach kids how to build and and create things we make their hands more gentle towards what they touch, so they know their value as well as the effort people make to build them, so they become more careful about distroying them.
Bully_rus
Posted: Saturday, March 1, 2014 1:45:25 PM
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Daemon wrote:
Children have a natural antipathy to books--handicraft should be the basis of education. Boys and girls should be taught to use their hands to make something, and they would be less apt to destroy and be mischievous.

Oscar Wilde (1854-1900)


Children have a natural disposition to destroy and be mischievous. It's so unnatural try to destroy it.
PS And what is the use of a book without pictures or conversations?
Trivium_Discipulus
Posted: Saturday, March 1, 2014 2:16:25 PM
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Daemon wrote:
Children have a natural antipathy to books--handicraft should be the basis of education. Boys and girls should be taught to use their hands to make something, and they would be less apt to destroy and be mischievous.

Oscar Wilde (1854-1900)


I agree with the latter observation - handicraft is very beneficial to the mind and body of children.

I disagree with his former assertion, though - at least in a lot of cases.

Words are absolutely amazing when presented in their proper context - after all, how cool is representing that which exists and is real? In proper context, I think many more children would be interested in reading. John Taylor Gatto proved this was the case when he provided his low performing "ghetto students" with proper context and, within 8 months, they performed as well as the "rich students" of privileged families.

And he did so consistently.

But this made him an enemy of the status quo.

The Ultimate History Lesson with John Taylor Gatto...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQiW_l848t8&list=PL463AA90FD04EC7A2

The best way to control the opposition is to finance it. Birds of prey have two wings; the left wing & right wing.
Verbatim
Posted: Saturday, March 1, 2014 6:25:34 PM
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Daemon wrote:
Children have a natural antipathy to books--handicraft should be the basis of education. Boys and girls should be taught to use their hands to make something, and they would be less apt to destroy and be mischievous.

Oscar Wilde (1854-1900)


Upon his return from a one year visit to America, Oscar Wilde delivered a lecture at Wandsworth Town Hall on September 24, 1883: "Impressions of America".

This is the excerpt which contains the quotation:
"The men are entirely given to business; they have, as they say, their brains in front of their heads. They are also exceedingly acceptive of new ideas. Their education is practical. We base the education of children entirely on books, but we must give a child a mind before we can instruct the mind. Children have a natural antipathy to books—handicraft should be the basis of education. Boys and girls should be taught to use their hands to make something, and they would be less apt to destroy and be mischievous."""

The text of the lecture was eventually published (1906) with a preface by Stuart Mason under the same title. http://www.online-literature.com/wilde/4480/
The preface contains background on Wilde's ideas about education of children in England--under the influence of John Ruskin, the Victorian preeminent art critic.

Stuart Mason wrote this in his preface as he was referring to a later lecture that Wilde delivered on his American Experiences:

""His subject was a plea in favour of “art for schools,” and many of his remarks about the English system of elementary education—with its insistence on “the population of places that no one ever wants to go to,” and its “familiarity with the lives of persons who probably never existed”—were said to be quite worthy of Ruskin. A contemporary account adds that Wilde “showed himself a pupil of Mr. Ruskin’s, too, in insisting on the importance of every child being taught some handicraft, and in looking forward to the time when a boy would rather look at a bird or even draw it than throw “his customary stone!” "" End quote.
Absurdicuss
Posted: Saturday, March 1, 2014 6:43:31 PM

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Dad always maintained a well equipped wood shop but forbid his sons to enter, so we all lost out on an opportunity for something positive.

As a lad I learned many skills, none of which were particularly useful in a classroom.
Throwing balls, and rocks and punches, wrestling and chasing were, on the other hand, foundational skill sets that I perfected while still developing the high craft of subterfuge and deception.

But that is now decades past and all I want to do is spend time with my best friend/wife, play guitar, ponder unanswerable philosophical conundrums and think about the next piece fine wooden furniture I will build.

Still like to put on the weighted gloves and, therapeutically, beat the bag.

"Now" is the eternal present.
Absurdicuss
Posted: Saturday, March 1, 2014 6:45:41 PM

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Triv, thanks for posting the Gatto link. I was unable to access through the Trivium Education site.

"Now" is the eternal present.
kenturner1
Posted: Saturday, March 1, 2014 8:22:25 PM

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So true. Especially nowadays where it's more fashionable to play with a game system mobile phone and or other electronic devices. Children don't use their imagination as much because technology makes it for them. Also it's good for kids to learn a craft or a trade so to be more competitive in this global economy.

**DISCLAIMER**
El-Baba
Posted: Saturday, March 1, 2014 11:28:24 PM
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I do not think it is best to solely concentrate on practical methods of teaching, but I believe there should be an application of both theoretical and practical approaches in education. And the generalisation that children 'have a natural antipathy to books' is not reasonable.
Nd:YAG
Posted: Sunday, March 2, 2014 1:19:33 AM

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Shame on you I totally disagree with Oscar.

Shhh I believe everyone has a natural, innate talent which will emerge at the right moment. Kids have to be exposed to as many ways (music, arts, sports, literature, games, internet, etc) as possible to help them to find and to develop that talent, and the school would be where those kids will find their own way. Parents must keep open eyes to direct their children towards the right path. Having talent for books, handicraft, or anything else, that will come naturally. Applause
Christian Schmidt Q.
Posted: Sunday, March 2, 2014 4:57:27 PM

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I admire the writer but I have to say that I totally disagree with the man. Mischievousness is essential for development, and adults are considerably more destructive than children.


Daemon wrote:
Children have a natural antipathy to books--handicraft should be the basis of education. Boys and girls should be taught to use their hands to make something, and they would be less apt to destroy and be mischievous.

Oscar Wilde (1854-1900)
thar
Posted: Sunday, March 2, 2014 5:39:02 PM

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Everybody who is knocking Oscar - remember the man was a satirical writer - he wrote to provoke, not to uphold the status quo. This is a man who left his wife to have affair with a man and went to prison for it. This is the man who also wrote

Quote:
Education is an admirable thing, but it is well to remember from time to time that nothing that is worth knowing can be taught.


Quote:
To regret one's own experiences is to arrest one's own development. To deny one's own experiences is to put a lie into the lips of one's life. It is no less than a denial of the soul.


Quote:
Most people die of a sort of creeping common sense, and discover when it is too late that the only things one never regrets are one's mistakes.


He was the last person who would want children to grow up 'being kept out of mischief'. That idea was horrific to him. He was a believer in the good of a rounded education, not just books, but also arts, creativity. He did not want children to be bored by rote book learning and lose their natural creativity, and become desctructive instead. He wanted them to create. But he used exaggeration to get his idea across - and as for keeping children out of mischief, using it as a measure of control - he was taking the piss, folks!

Doce
Posted: Monday, March 3, 2014 8:24:58 AM

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Saki
The Schartz-Metterklume Method

Lady Carlotta stepped out on to the platform of the small wayside station and took a turn or two up and down its uninteresting length, to kill time till the train should be pleased to proceed on its way. Then, in the roadway beyond, she saw a horse struggling with a more than ample load, and a carter of the sort that seems to bear a sullen hatred against the animal that helps him to earn a living. Lady Carlotta promptly betook her to the roadway, and put rather a different complexion on the struggle. Certain of her acquaintances were wont to give her plentiful admonition as to the undesirability of interfering on behalf of a distressed animal, such interference being "none of her business." Only once had she put the doctrine of non-interference into practice, when one of its most eloquent exponents had been besieged for nearly three hours in a small and extremely uncomfortable may-tree by an angry boar-pig, while Lady Carlotta, on the other side of the fence, had proceeded with the water-colour sketch she was engaged on, and refused to interfere between the boar and his prisoner. It is to be feared that she lost the friendship of the ultimately rescued lady. On this occasion she merely lost the train, which gave way to the first sign of impatience it had shown throughout the journey, and steamed off without her. She bore the desertion with philosophical indifference; her friends and relations were thoroughly well used to the fact of her luggage arriving without her. She wired a vague non-committal message to her destination to say that she was coming on "by another train." Before she had time to think what her next move might be she was confronted by an imposingly attired lady, who seemed to be taking a prolonged mental inventory of her clothes and looks.

"You must be Miss Hope, the governess I've come to meet," said the apparition, in a tone that admitted of very little argument.

"Very well, if I must I must," said Lady Carlotta to herself with dangerous meekness.

"I am Mrs. Quabarl," continued the lady; "and where, pray, is your luggage?"
< 2 >

"It's gone astray," said the alleged governess, falling in with the excellent rule of life that the absent are always to blame; the luggage had, in point of fact, behaved with perfect correctitude. "I've just telegraphed about it," she added, with a nearer approach to truth.

"How provoking," said Mrs. Quabarl; "these railway companies are so careless. However, my maid can lend you things for the night," and she led the way to her car.

During the drive to the Quabarl mansion Lady Carlotta was impressively introduced to the nature of the charge that had been thrust upon her; she learned that Claude and Wilfrid were delicate, sensitive young people, that Irene had the artistic temperament highly developed, and that Viola was something or other else of a mould equally commonplace among children of that class and type in the twentieth century.

"I wish them not only to be taught," said Mrs. Quabarl, "but interested in what they learn. In their history lessons, for instance, you must try to make them feel that they are being introduced to the life-stories of men and women who really lived, not merely committing a mass of names and dates to memory. French, of course, I shall expect you to talk at meal-times several days in the week."

"I shall talk French four days of the week and Russian in the remaining three."

"Russian? My dear Miss Hope, no one in the house speaks or understands Russian."

"That will not embarrass me in the least," said Lady Carlotta coldly.

Mrs. Quabarl, to use a colloquial expression, was knocked off her perch. She was one of those imperfectly self-assured individuals who are magnificent and autocratic as long as they are not seriously opposed. The least show of unexpected resistance goes a long way towards rendering them cowed and apologetic. When the new governess failed to express wondering admiration of the large newly-purchased and expensive car, and lightly alluded to the superior advantages of one or two makes which had just been put on the market, the discomfiture of her patroness became almost abject. Her feelings were those which might have animated a general of ancient warfaring days, on beholding his heaviest battle-elephant ignominiously driven off the field by slingers and javelin throwers.
< 3 >

At dinner that evening, although reinforced by her husband, who usually duplicated her opinions and lent her moral support generally, Mrs. Quabarl regained none of her lost ground. The governess not only helped herself well and truly to wine, but held forth with considerable show of critical knowledge on various vintage matters, concerning which the Quabarls were in no wise able to pose as authorities. Previous governesses had limited their conversation on the wine topic to a respectful and doubtless sincere expression of a preference for water. When this one went as far as to recommend a wine firm in whose hands you could not go very far wrong Mrs. Quabarl thought it time to turn the conversation into more usual channels.

"We got very satisfactory references about you from Canon Teep," she observed; "a very estimable man, I should think."

"Drinks like a fish and beats his wife, otherwise a very lovable character," said the governess imperturbably.

"My dear Miss Hope! I trust you are exaggerating," exclaimed the Quabarls in unison.

"One must in justice admit that there is some provocation," continued the romancer. "Mrs. Teep is quite the most irritating bridge-player that I have ever sat down with; her leads and declarations would condone a certain amount of brutality in her partner, but to souse her with the contents of the only soda-water syphon in the house on a Sunday afternoon, when one couldn't get another, argues an indifference to the comfort of others which I cannot altogether overlook. You may think me hasty in my judgments, but it was practically on account of the syphon incident that I left."

"We will talk of this some other time," said Mrs. Quabarl hastily.

"I shall never allude to it again," said the governess with decision.

Mr. Quabarl made a welcome diversion by asking what studies the new instructress proposed to inaugurate on the morrow.

"History to begin with," she informed him.
< 4 >

"Ah, history," he observed sagely; "now in teaching them history you must take care to interest them in what they learn. You must make them feel that they are being introduced to the life-stories of men and women who really lived — "

"I've told her all that," interposed Mrs. Quabarl.

"I teach history on the Schartz-Metterklume method," said the governess loftily.

"Ah, yes," said her listeners, thinking it expedient to assume an acquaintance at least with the name.

*

"What are you children doing out here?" demanded Mrs. Quabarl the next morning, on finding Irene sitting rather glumly at the head of the stairs, while her sister was perched in an attitude of depressed discomfort on the window-seat behind her, with a wolf-skin rug almost covering her.

"We are having a history lesson," came the unexpected reply. "I am supposed to be Rome, and Viola up there is the she-wolf; not a real wolf, but the figure of one that the Romans used to set store by — I forget why. Claude and Wilfrid have gone to fetch the shabby women."

"The shabby women?"

"Yes, they've got to carry them off. They didn't want to, but Miss Hope got one of father's fives-bats and said she'd give them a number nine spanking if they didn't, so they've gone to do it."

A loud, angry screaming from the direction of the lawn drew Mrs. Quabarl thither in hot haste, fearful lest the threatened castigation might even now be in process of infliction. The outcry, however, came principally from the two small daughters of the lodge-keeper, who were being hauled and pushed towards the house by the panting and dishevelled Claude and Wilfrid, whose task was rendered even more arduous by the incessant, if not very effectual, attacks of the captured maidens' small brother. The governess, fives-bat in hand, sat negligently on the stone balustrade, presiding over the scene with the cold impartiality of a Goddess of Battles. A furious and repeated chorus of "I'll tell muvver" rose from the lodge-children, but the lodge-mother, who was hard of hearing, was for the moment immersed in the preoccupation of her washtub.
< 5 >

After an apprehensive glance in the direction of the lodge (the good woman was gifted with the highly militant temper which is sometimes the privilege of deafness) Mrs. Quabarl flew indignantly to the rescue of the struggling captives.

"Wilfrid! Claude! Let those children go at once. Miss Hope, what on earth is the meaning of this scene?"

"Early Roman history; the Sabine Women, don't you know? It's the Schartz-Metterklume method to make children understand history by acting it themselves; fixes it in their memory, you know. Of course, if, thanks to your interference, your boys go through life thinking that the Sabine women ultimately escaped, I really cannot be held responsible."

"You may be very clever and modern, Miss Hope," said Mrs. Quabarl firmly, "but I should like you to leave here by the next train. Your luggage will be sent after you as soon as it arrives."

"I'm not certain exactly where I shall be for the next few days," said the dismissed instructress of youth; "you might keep my luggage till I wire my address. There are only a couple of trunks and some golf-clubs and a leopard cub."

"A leopard cub!" gasped Mrs. Quabarl. Even in her departure this extraordinary person seemed destined to leave a trail of embarrassment behind her.

"Well, it's rather left off being a cub; it's more than half-grown, you know. A fowl every day and a rabbit on Sundays is what it usually gets. Raw beef makes it too excitable. Don't trouble about getting the car for me, I'm rather inclined for a walk."

And Lady Carlotta strode out of the Quabarl horizon.

The advent of the genuine Miss Hope, who had made a mistake as to the day on which she was due to arrive, caused a turmoil which that good lady was quite unused to inspiring. Obviously the Quabarl family had been woefully befooled, but a certain amount of relief came with the knowledge.
< 6 >

"How tiresome for you, dear Carlotta," said her hostess, when the overdue guest ultimately arrived; "how very tiresome losing your train and having to stop overnight in a strange place."

"Oh dear, no," said Lady Carlotta; "not at all tiresome — for me."


The One ;)
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