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When I talk of eyes, the stars come out! Whose eyes are they? If they are angels' eyes, why do they look down here and see... Options
Daemon
Posted: Monday, October 21, 2013 12:00:00 AM
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When I talk of eyes, the stars come out! Whose eyes are they? If they are angels' eyes, why do they look down here and see good men hurt, and only wink and sparkle all the night?

Charles Dickens (1812-1870)
MTC
Posted: Monday, October 21, 2013 3:55:34 AM
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If God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent, why does He, She, or It permit evil to exist?
Kafka
Posted: Monday, October 21, 2013 4:23:08 AM

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It's because You need to see for yourself that living Your life without Your creator's rules won't lead You anyway neat. It's actually that simple. God's rules are wise, they are actually help and guide. Following them makes our lives easier. And what is more - it is only then when we can expect God to help us, as we appear reasonable before Him and devoted to Him.
It's like with children, we tell them what is good and wrong, what cause pain and what brings gain. They can listen, but often they don't and learn from mistakes.
Kafka
Posted: Monday, October 21, 2013 4:37:39 AM

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MTC wrote:


If God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent, why does He, She, or It permit evil to exist?


What really is 'evil' ? Evil comes from disobeying God. Ask Yourself - what do You mean by evil? And what leads to evilness? Evil comes gradually, step by step, from little mischief to serious harm. Evil breeds evil, goodness breeds goodness. Try and trace the course of some misfortune in Your life, analyse - what actually led to it?

Evil isn't a thing that can be simply thrown out and burnt in a furnace. Evil is deeds.
jcbarros
Posted: Monday, October 21, 2013 8:37:55 AM

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God does not care about our business.
Bully_rus
Posted: Monday, October 21, 2013 11:56:29 AM
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Daemon wrote:
When I talk of eyes, the stars come out! Whose eyes are they? If they are angels' eyes, why do they look down here and see good men hurt, and only wink and sparkle all the night?

Charles Dickens (1812-1870)

Good reaction, loose connections, wrong - conclusion.
Hope2
Posted: Monday, October 21, 2013 12:34:44 PM

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Sorry, it won't let me delete a double post. And I just wrote it two minutes or so ago.

Most of the trouble in the world is caused by people wanting to be important. T. S. Eliot
Hope2
Posted: Monday, October 21, 2013 12:35:49 PM

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MTC wrote:


If God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent, why does He, She, or It permit evil to exist?


Because God cannot be both omnipotent and omnibenevolent. If he is one, he is not the other.

Most of the trouble in the world is caused by people wanting to be important. T. S. Eliot
capitán
Posted: Monday, October 21, 2013 12:46:15 PM

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Location: San Salvador, San Salvador, El Salvador
Kafka wrote:
MTC wrote:


If God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent, why does He, She, or It permit evil to exist?


What really is 'evil' ? Evil comes from disobeying God. Ask Yourself - what do You mean by evil? And what leads to evilness? Evil comes gradually, step by step, from little mischief to serious harm. Evil breeds evil, goodness breeds goodness. Try and trace the course of some misfortune in Your life, analyse - what actually led to it?

Evil isn't a thing that can be simply thrown out and burnt in a furnace. Evil is deeds.

...

If god is omnipotent, then why he doesn't do anything about so many horrible things in the world like natural disasters, murder, genocide, rapes, etc?
You would answer: punishment from god. Perhaps you would come up with the classic "god works in mysterious ways." However, this simply doesn't make sense.

To start with, how can god give men free will when he is omniscient? If he is, he knows what will happen and when things are going to happen.
Then, he shouldn't get angry because people are "wicked" and don't worship him.

Perhaps you think that a natural disaster is god's punishment for the wicked or that he does it for a greater good. Couldn't the all mighty god find a way to deal with the wicked one by one and in a peaceful way?
So, god couldn't find a better way to achieve a greater good than killing several hundreds of people in the kanto earthquake (were 140,000 people died) or by drowning lots of people in a tsunami?
If he is omnipotent all this could have been avoided by just a thought, don't you agree?

Or you perhaps think that god has nothing to do with natural disasters killing several people all around the world.
If these natural disasters happen and god allows them to happen, this means that god is not able to do a thing about it and is not omnipotent (or does NOT exist),
or simply he doesn't care about humankind enough to prevent thousands of people from dying and millions from suffering;
then I would reconsider the idea of god as just and that his rules are fair.

Now, "evil comes from disobeying god"?
Is good and just a god that has all the power in the universe and kills hundreds of people as a punishment or for the sake of a greater good when he could easily get what he wants without killing hundreds because of his powers?
Why does he do it if he has all the power in the universe to change peoples minds and hearts all around the planet?

Let me get this straight,
god creates humankind and a lake of fire., and those who do not worship him are going to burn for eternity.
Can anybody tell me how is this just?
And, again, he is omniscient and knows that you don't believe in him... still he is sending you to hell forever. Nice.

...

"When I talk of eyes, the stars come out! Whose eyes are they? If they are angels' eyes, why do they look down here and see good men hurt, and only wink and sparkle all the night?"
Charles Dickens



Verbatim
Posted: Monday, October 21, 2013 2:50:06 PM
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Joined: 10/3/2012
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Daemon wrote:
When I talk of eyes, the stars come out! Whose eyes are they? If they are angels' eyes, why do they look down here and see good men hurt, and only wink and sparkle all the night?

Charles Dickens (1812-1870)


Barnaby Rudge Chapter 3:
"Hush!" said Barnaby, laying his fingers on his lips. "He went out today a wooing. I wouldn't for a light guinea that he should never go a wooing again, for if he did some eyes would grow dim that are now as bright as—see, when I talk of eyes, the stars come out. Whose eyes are they? If they are angels' eyes why do they look down here and see good men hurt, and only wink and sparkle all the night?"

And later in Chapter 29: ( We can see that it is us who fail the "sparkle from angels' eyes", not the other way around )
"The thoughts of worldly men are for ever regulated by a moral law of gravitation, which, like the physical one, holds them down to earth. The bright glory of day, and the silent wonders of a starlit night, appeal to their minds in vain. There are no signs in the sun, or in the moon, or in the stars, for their reading. They are like some wise men, who, learning to know each planet by its Latin name, have quite forgotten such small heavenly constellations as Charity, Forbearance, Universal Love, and Mercy, although they shine by night and day so brightly that the blind may see them; and who, looking upward at the spangled sky, see nothing there but the reflection of their own great wisdom and book-learning.

It is curious to imagine these people of the world, busy in thought, turning their eyes towards the countless spheres that shine above us, and making them reflect the only images their minds contain. The man who lives but in the breath of princes, has nothing his sight but stars for courtiers’ breasts. The envious man beholds his neighbours’ honours even in the sky; to the money- hoarder, and the mass of worldly folk, the whole great universe above glitters with sterling coin—fresh from the mint—stamped with the sovereign’s head—coming always between them and heaven, turn where they may. So do the shadows of our own desires stand between us and our better angels, and thus their brightness is eclipsed. "
Desiree
Posted: Monday, October 21, 2013 11:01:14 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 5/16/2009
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Location: Viña del Mar, Valparaiso, Chile

It always has to exist the opposite in this world: good -evil ; justice - injustice etc. in order to appreciate and distinguish the difference.
Remember, we are not in Paradise, but in this earth , so physical or mental suffering is part
of human existence and to experience them is unavoidable. If God spare us from grief, struggle
sufferings, the price would be a total detachment which excludes the ability to experience happiness,love ,strenght,proud to overcoming in this world . If we were all good here, better
go directly to heaven with our wings on !!!
MTC
Posted: Tuesday, October 22, 2013 12:05:30 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 1/18/2011
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I merely stated the age-old philosophical "Problem of Evil" suggested by the quote from Dickens. With respect for the opinions of others, in my view capitan answered by hitting the ball out of the park.
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