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There can be no covenants between men and lions, wolves and lambs can never be of one mind, but hate each other out and out. Options
Daemon
Posted: Tuesday, October 8, 2013 12:00:00 AM
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There can be no covenants between men and lions, wolves and lambs can never be of one mind, but hate each other out and out.

Homer (900 BC-800 BC)
Bully_rus
Posted: Tuesday, October 8, 2013 3:09:10 AM
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What fortune can gain wolves from covenants with lambs? The hungry death? Besides, why wolves must hate lambs thoroughly - its stock of life?
dbelgard
Posted: Tuesday, October 8, 2013 11:58:58 AM
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Genetically there is no basis for considering dogs and wolves to be of different species. So there has been in fact a covenant for many thousands of years between wolves and humankind. And if we consider our house cats to be direct descendants of the lions, the covenant also exists already between lions and the human species. The evolution of consciousness changes everything. Homer's ideas must be taken in the context of the static world view that prevailed in his time. (Heraclitus -- "You can't step in the same river twice for there are ever new waters flowing on" -- would not be born until several centuries after Homer.) At the foundation of many of our faiths lies the belief and hope in the eventual reconciliation of all life forms. The wolves shall lie down with the lambs and the lions will eat grass like the cows (the prophet Isaiah).
Verbatim
Posted: Tuesday, October 8, 2013 2:59:07 PM
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Daemon wrote:
There can be no covenants between men and lions, wolves and lambs can never be of one mind, but hate each other out and out.

Homer (900 BC-800 BC)


Words of Achilles, in Chapter 22 of The Iliad. The allegory he chose to symbolize irreconcilability --actually between men-- proves no other truth than
the sad explanation of its nature: out and out hatred.

Achilles replied to this offer of a covenant from Hector: ""...when the two were now close to one another great Hector was first to speak. "I will-no longer fly you, son of Peleus," said he, "as I have been doing hitherto. Three times have I fled round the mighty city of Priam, without daring to withstand you, but now, let me either slay or be slain, for I am in the mind to face you. Let us, then, give pledges to one another by our gods, who are the fittest witnesses and guardians of all covenants; let it be agreed between us that if Jove vouchsafes me the longer stay and I take your life, I am not to treat your dead body in any unseemly fashion, but when I have stripped you of your armour, I am to give up your body to the Achaeans. And do you likewise.""" http://www.literaturepage.com/read/theiliad-326.html
MTC
Posted: Tuesday, October 8, 2013 6:59:38 PM
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dbelgard wrote:
Genetically there is no basis for considering dogs and wolves to be of different species. So there has been in fact a covenant for many thousands of years between wolves and humankind. And if we consider our house cats to be direct descendants of the lions, the covenant also exists already between lions and the human species. The evolution of consciousness changes everything. Homer's ideas must be taken in the context of the static world view that prevailed in his time. (Heraclitus -- "You can't step in the same river twice for there are ever new waters flowing on" -- would not be born until several centuries after Homer.) At the foundation of many of our faiths lies the belief and hope in the eventual reconciliation of all life forms. The wolves shall lie down with the lambs and the lions will eat grass like the cows (the prophet Isaiah).


Welcome, dbelgard, and thanks for your post which puts Homer's words in perspective.

The Biblical verse you mentioned inspired Edward Hicks to paint Peaceable Kingdom, visible here:http://www.historyofpainters.com/hicks_painting.htm

Hicks' images refute Homer's words.
Kanga85
Posted: Tuesday, October 8, 2013 9:25:53 PM

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Presumably Homer had never heard of Androcles. Pre-dated him?
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