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The voice of the people has been said to be the voice of God; and, however generally this maxim has been quoted and believed,... Options
Daemon
Posted: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 12:00:00 AM
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The voice of the people has been said to be the voice of God; and, however generally this maxim has been quoted and believed, it is not true to fact. The people are turbulent and changing, they seldom judge or determine right.

Alexander Hamilton (1755-1804)
Ray
Posted: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 2:23:16 AM

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It is true that 'the people' on occasion need a bit of leading and advising. But I'd still rather accept the voice of the people than the voice of authority.
redsxz
Posted: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 4:50:36 AM

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Don't the voice of the people become the voice of authority?
Joseph Glantz
Posted: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 7:51:21 AM
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Hmm. I wonder what Charlotte Bronte would say.
Debdatta Basu
Posted: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 7:55:51 AM

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No, 'voice of the people' is not the 'voice of the authority'. Authority represents few voices only according to his / her wish, which fulfills his / her desire.
teacher77
Posted: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 8:08:15 AM

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"The voice of the people has been said to be the voice of God; and, however generally this maxim has been quoted and believed, it is not true to fact. The people are turbulent and changing, they seldom judge or determine right."

The maxim is absolutely appropriate. If the voice of the people has been said to be the voice of God, and God embodies everything, then God is the good, the bad, the beautiful, the ugly, in short the Alpha and the Omega. God is not static but God is day and night, the sun and the rain. God's judgement is multidimensional. God is peaceful as well as warlike. God gives and God takes. From the image, we understand the body.
nw3bk3y
Posted: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 8:49:08 AM

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Mr. Hamilton has pointed out an apparent contradiction. I would state that the people do as a whole have the sensibilities to know what is good for the population because they are a part of it. If you listen to the people, you are listening to the 'word of God' because there is no higher authority.

Mr. H seems to think that this is false because people are 'turbulent and changing'. He confuses authority with power here. If a democratic representative does wrong by his constituents he will be sure to hear from a majority of those he has injured. However, if the same person asks them how to fix a problem he will get as many solutions as there are people in his district. Mr. H confuses 'diversity of opinion' with an 'inability to judge right from wrong'.




“Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll understand.” -- Chinese proverb
fred
Posted: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 9:03:41 AM

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nw3bk3y wrote:
Mr. Hamilton has pointed out an apparent contradiction. I would state that the people do as a whole have the sensibilities to know what is good for the population because they are a part of it. If you listen to the people, you are listening to the 'word of God' because there is no higher authority.

Mr. H seems to think that this is false because people are 'turbulent and changing'. He confuses authority with power here. If a democratic representative does wrong by his constituents he will be sure to hear from a majority of those he has injured. However, if the same person asks them how to fix a problem he will get as many solutions as there are people in his district. Mr. H confuses 'diversity of opinion' with an 'inability to judge right from wrong'.




The people are not judging what is right or wrong.
The people are making voting decisions given to them through the election process. This is not a decison of right and wrong.

"Supposin' I was to go to work and learn how to... to read writin'. Well, how'd I know that the feller that... that wrote the writin' was a writin' the writin' right? See it could be that he wrote the writin' all wrong. Here I'd be just a readin' wrong writin', don't ya see? You probably been doin' it your whole life, just a readin' wrong writin' and not even knowin‘ it." Festus
Carmelo
Posted: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 9:19:46 AM

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Hamilton stated a historical truth, which has not been proven to be false, expect in the minds of some who have problems accepting reality. As such, it is correct, it cannot be argued, it cannot be denied or discussed to find some part of it false. If we cannot admit to historical reality, what can we agree with? If historical thruth teaches us nothing, where is our heart and mind and who can teach us anything? Such people seem to think to be gods, or must be virtually blind, or are afraid of something they have difficulty accepting. Could it be truth, light, beauty, goodness. . .Think

Carmelo
Posted: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 9:23:13 AM

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Fred is going my way and I thing he speaks the truth. Way to go Fred.
nw3bk3y
Posted: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 9:33:21 AM

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Carmelo wrote:
Hamilton stated a historical truth, which has not been proven to be false, expect in the minds of some who have problems accepting reality. As such, it is correct, it cannot be argued, it cannot be denied or discussed to find some part of it false. If we cannot admit to historical reality, what can we agree with? If historical thruth teaches us nothing, where is our heart and mind and who can teach us anything? Such people seem to think to be gods, or must be virtually blind, or are afraid of something they have difficulty accepting. Could it be truth, light, beauty, goodness. . .Think



Of course I am a firm believer in the separation of church and state as well.





“Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll understand.” -- Chinese proverb
ChildofTheKing
Posted: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 11:40:20 AM

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teacher77 wrote:
"The voice of the people has been said to be the voice of God; and, however generally this maxim has been quoted and believed, it is not true to fact. The people are turbulent and changing, they seldom judge or determine right."

The maxim is absolutely appropriate. If the voice of the people has been said to be the voice of God, and God embodies everything, then God is the good, the bad, the beautiful, the ugly, in short the Alpha and the Omega. God is not static but God is day and night, the sun and the rain. God's judgement is multidimensional. God is peaceful as well as warlike. God gives and God takes. From the image, we understand the body.



Very well articulated, "teacher77!" I concur. Applause
Christine
Posted: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 12:08:58 PM

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In his days, his words probably were true. But, 1755-1804 is not 2009.

I am carrying my heart~I am carrying my rhythm~I am carrying my prayers~But you can't kill my spirit~It's soaring and strong (Paula Cole's Me Lyrics)***We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We ARE spirtual beings having a human experience.(T.deChardin)***There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle. (Albert Einstein)



sacsayhuaman
Posted: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 1:05:16 PM

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If only the voice of God would have been clear, and one with apparent ease to hear.
Hupomone
Posted: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 1:24:53 PM
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That's a nice picture of Alexander...Nice guy, and right, too...Hey, did they used to have people follow these guys around and write down all the words they said?
Christine
Posted: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 7:06:07 PM

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Hupomone wrote:
That's a nice picture of Alexander...Nice guy, and right, too...Hey, did they used to have people follow these guys around and write down all the words they said?


No, they write themselves.

I am carrying my heart~I am carrying my rhythm~I am carrying my prayers~But you can't kill my spirit~It's soaring and strong (Paula Cole's Me Lyrics)***We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We ARE spirtual beings having a human experience.(T.deChardin)***There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle. (Albert Einstein)



seansarto
Posted: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 7:15:54 PM

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Thus the Electoral College....and I don't dispute the reasoning for such. "Mob mentality" is not the indigenous human state of being...There may be evidence of telekinsis but each conscience is individual and unique, as, (we must conclude) intended....But I must ask, "Is not the Electoral College also a body of people reliant on a consensus, regardless of their excellence and proficencies?"
ngee cheng
Posted: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 9:01:59 PM
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If this very small portion of "people" who happened to have written to "discuss" Mr. H's quote are any indication, the cumulative effect is like Brownian motion - not moving in any direction. When you understand how people vote, you realize that they, the demos, are a rabble, and can be manipulated to move en masse in some direction, depending on who can whip up the frenzy. I think Mr. H speaks of the human masses in general, regardless of people and time. We have plenty of examples of how the demos are whipped up into frenzy and go on mindless rampage, riot, mass movement, revolution, where the turbulence leaves behind much carnage and destruction. Those events certainly show that the demos seldom judge or determine right, or are even capable of either. They perpetuate much wrong and mindless butchery. Of the world, not of God.
seansarto
Posted: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 9:27:17 PM

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"...not moving in any direction."

I would say that "motion" is the inertia or illusion of equilibrium....thus, "To err is economy".
Ray
Posted: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 11:37:04 PM

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[quote=Carmelo]Hamilton stated a historical truth, which has not been proven to be false, expect in the minds of some who have problems accepting reality. As such, it is correct, it cannot be argued, it cannot be denied or discussed to find some part of it false. If we cannot admit to historical reality, what can we agree with? If historical thruth teaches us nothing, where is our heart and mind and who can teach us anything? Such people seem to think to be gods, or must be virtually blind, or are afraid of something they have difficulty accepting. Could it be truth, light, beauty, goodness. . .Think

I find it worrying that some might think that 'truths' cannot be argued, or discussed to 'find some part of it false'. 'Historical reality' is subjective, and should always be a topic for re-evaluation.
nw3bk3y
Posted: Thursday, October 01, 2009 1:26:13 PM

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ngee cheng wrote:
We have plenty of examples of how the demos are whipped up into frenzy and go on mindless rampage, riot, mass movement, revolution, where the turbulence leaves behind much carnage and destruction.


This is why Thomas Jefferson said, "Our liberty cannot be guarded but by the freedom of the press, nor that be limited without danger of losing it." In a democracy, words of a convincing nature can motivate some to action. In the US, we see the effects of political action on our senators and representatives. Sometimes they take heed of popular sentiment, other times they consider the demonstrations to be by those who don't understand the deeper issue at hand (e.g. the Teabaggers).

ngee cheng wrote:
Those events certainly show that the demos seldom judge or determine right, or are even capable of either. They perpetuate much wrong and mindless butchery. Of the world, not of God.

I wonder what other form of government would be better than a democracy? In our form of constitutionally-limited republican democracy, we have freedom of speech and the right to assembly. Don't these freedoms provide an open forum for anyone who wants to speak out against government abuses? Would we know about the mindless butchery done in the name of our country, were it not for freedom of the press?



“Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll understand.” -- Chinese proverb
ngee cheng
Posted: Thursday, October 01, 2009 10:14:25 PM
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Thanks mw3bk3y for your remarks. The republican form of democracy is still the best form of gov. I didn't mean to demean it by agreeing with Mr. H's quote. A short discussion leaves a lot unsaid. I was only trying to say that Mr. H's quote refers to the baser form when freedom is used as a license to abuse the very democray that gave rise to it - and rouses the demos to become turbulent and destructive.
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