The Free Dictionary  
mailing list For webmasters
Welcome Guest Forum Search | Active Topics | Members

What to take to improve memory Options
Koh Elaine
Posted: Saturday, November 24, 2012 9:24:18 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/4/2012
Posts: 2,788
Neurons: 11,337
Does anyone know what I should take to improve my memory? I have tried Ginkyo, but it does not seem to work. The interesting part is that I often forget to take the tablets. If they are effective, I should be able to remember to take them.

Thanks.
Epiphileon
Posted: Saturday, November 24, 2012 10:09:51 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/22/2009
Posts: 3,942
Neurons: 58,839
I would highly recommend that you seek out some behavioral exercises as well, I doubt chemo-therapy alone would produce noticeable change. There are a number of sites on line that offer such exercises, perhaps others have recommendations. I would use any of the following search texts to find some;
memory improvement
brain training
memory exercises
how to improve your memory

But I feel like I can pretty much assert that any currently available chemo-therapy alone, is not going to produce the desired results. A large factor in the operation of memory is the actual physiological pathways invoked in the behavior, these can only be formed by usage.

I would also recommend that you research any potion, pill, or powder, that claims to improve memory, and look specifically for clinical trials, or peer reviewed research. On the other hand you could legitimately skip this step, and if you find one that you strongly believe will work, and couple it with exercises, you will probably achieve the desired results.

Question authority. How do you know, that you know, what you know?
leonAzul
Posted: Saturday, November 24, 2012 10:24:36 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 8/11/2011
Posts: 8,128
Neurons: 25,817
Location: Miami, Florida, United States
Koh Elaine wrote:
Does anyone know what I should take to improve my memory? I have tried Ginkyo, but it does not seem to work. The interesting part is that I often forget to take the tablets. If they are effective, I should be able to remember to take them.


It very much depends on why you are not remembering what you want to remember.

If there is a dietary deficiency, then of course a change of diet would yield an improvement.

Yet diet is not the only influence on memory.

Think



"Make it go away, Mrs Whatsit," he whispered. "Make it go away. It's evil."
Koh Elaine
Posted: Saturday, November 24, 2012 11:06:13 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/4/2012
Posts: 2,788
Neurons: 11,337
Since I was young, my memory has not been good. With aging, my memory has become worse. I hope dementia doesn't come next.
Daveski
Posted: Saturday, November 24, 2012 12:20:03 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/17/2012
Posts: 1,711
Neurons: 5,066
Location: Caer Sidi
If you are having trouble with your brains, you could always drink more Brains. Whistle

docendo discimus
frosty rime
Posted: Saturday, November 24, 2012 4:17:48 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/4/2012
Posts: 1,446
Neurons: 13,151
I think taking up a outdoor sport is the best for that.
Taking more oxygen for the brain will work.

devil rides vocabularies.
Hope2
Posted: Saturday, November 24, 2012 5:04:55 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/6/2012
Posts: 4,909
Neurons: 16,769
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Hi Elaine,

We did a thread by Jacobus a while ago on the prevention of Alzheimer's. Maybe he will remember the title.

As Lights says, physical exercise gets blood to the brain. Epi mentions cognitive exercises, and Leon diet. Lots of Essential Fatty Acids are required for all bodily functions, but especially for the brain. Fish oil, Krill Oil, Algae, ground flaxseed, olive oil, walnuts, almonds, coconut milk etc. These are Omega 3's. Probiotics improve the immune system and digestive enzymes help you to absorb the nutrition in the food.

I too have always had trouble remembering. In high school the secretary finally refused to give me back my purse. She was tired of finding it in the Lost and Found Box.

I now realize I forget things because I do not pay attention to what is happening in the moment. I am always multi tasking. That is the classic sign of ADD, although I am not saying you have it too. Just ask yourself 'Why do I forget?'

Make sure you treat herbs as drugs and check out side effects and contraindications. Ginkgo Biloba thins the blood so you do not want to be on that if you take blood thinners. Etc.

Apparently Ginkgo is used medicinally but in tests efficacy in memory improvement has not been shown (or the results have been inconclusive).

Whenever I forget to take my meds, it is usually that they are not doing me any good at that time, or I no longer need them.

I once got a great book from the library. It was made up of ways to improve your memory exponentially and had lots of great puzzles. I never did read it and sorry - I forget the title. Whistle

I console myself with the fact that things have not really changed, so I am not expecting any surprises as I age, even though Alzheimer's is in my family. You probably won't either.

It is only when you forget where you are, or things like how to brush your teeth, that you are in trouble.

Good luck.


Most of the trouble in the world is caused by people wanting to be important. T. S. Eliot
boneyfriend
Posted: Saturday, November 24, 2012 5:59:36 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 8/3/2009
Posts: 2,625
Neurons: 10,546
Location: Columbia, South Carolina, United States
Elaine, my memory has gone down the tubes as I have aged. I've noticed it so much. A psychologist friend tells me that the more stressful your life is, it will affect your memory.

There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face. Ben Williams
Hope2
Posted: Saturday, November 24, 2012 10:27:09 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/6/2012
Posts: 4,909
Neurons: 16,769
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Boneyfriend, you are so right. Stress and worry can produce disastrous effects on memory.

I meant to say to Elaine in my previous post that if you are going to take herbs and supplements, a naturopathic doctor is the one to ask.

What I mentioned was just general information.

Most of the trouble in the world is caused by people wanting to be important. T. S. Eliot
Henry o neil
Posted: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 12:08:21 AM

Rank: Newbie

Joined: 2/18/2014
Posts: 3
Neurons: 18
I think you can try some natural product based memory improvement supplements.Cebria is such a product which is creating the latest
buzzword.I hope it help you too.
Thanks
Luker4
Posted: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 6:28:42 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 11/19/2013
Posts: 4,189
Neurons: 22,537
Location: Wrocław Pracze, Lower Silesian Voivodeship, Poland
healthy diet for sure.
active lifestyle.

You can stimulate your memory by making mind maps, associatioans, even some poems to remmember stuff.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_map



it looks complicated, but it really isn't. You just need to "make" Your own method. well it works for me anyway Dancing

I hope it helps, enjoy!
pedro
Posted: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 9:48:02 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 5/21/2009
Posts: 12,945
Neurons: 58,999
Here's one I started earlier. Now what was this one about?



All good ideas arrive by chance- Max Ernst
Luker4
Posted: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 10:10:56 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 11/19/2013
Posts: 4,189
Neurons: 22,537
Location: Wrocław Pracze, Lower Silesian Voivodeship, Poland
ha! now I see that I must remember how to spell "remember". There is a member inside this word. remember Whistle Whistle Whistle
Trivium_Discipulus
Posted: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 7:34:17 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 12/20/2013
Posts: 819
Neurons: 350,106
Location: San Diego, California, United States
Koh Elaine wrote:
Since I was young, my memory has not been good. With aging, my memory has become worse. I hope dementia doesn't come next.


Hi Elaine.

My recommendations are as follows:

0.5. See a qualified naturopathic physician to make sure that any dietary changes won’t harm your specific health condition.

1. Stop toxifying the brain by getting a pure water supply. Toxic “fluoride” (at least two versions) and other toxins in the water can cause cognitive damage.

WHY EPA HEADQUARTERS UNION OF SCIENTISTS OPPOSES FLUORIDATION
http://www.nteu280.org/Issues/Fluoride/NTEU280-Fluoride.htm

Impact of fluoride on neurological development in children
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/features/fluoride-childrens-health-grandjean-choi/

Children Exposed to More Brain-Harming Chemicals Than Ever Before
http://healthland.time.com/2014/02/14/children-exposed-to-more-brain-harming-chemicals-than-ever-before/

I get that some people won’t want to believe the “power structure” is essentially using them as filters for their toxic waste, but one must be aware this is the same crowd that is bankrupting their community, their state and their country through fraud.

Truth is not exposed by “wanting to believe,” rather, it is exposed by following the evidence.

I avoid vaccines as well. There are lots of heavy metals, very bad side effects, lots of deception (top down, from the folks who are bankrupting you and toxifying your water – the doctors don’t know, they just repeat what Big Pharma teaches them in medical school).

The flu shot appears to be a complete hoax (don’t criticize this statement unless you present actual research that it is both safe and effective – research, not mere claims by self interested parties).

Avoid Flu Shots, Take Vitamin D Instead
http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2009/06/20/avoid-flu-shots-take-vitamin-d-instead/

Here are some charts that basically do not support the vaccine propaganda…

Graphic Reality: The Charting of Truth
http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2010/10/29/graphic-reality-the-charting-of-truth/

Direct link to PDF of charts
http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/media/Obamsawin_Vaccination_Tables.pdf

2. Minimize inflammation in general and, specifically, in the brain.

High dose, high quality fish oil is a quick way to reduce brain (and body) inflammation. IMHO, one needs to get the right fish oil and store bought usually is crap. I only buy IFOS 5 star fish oils (search it for a list). OmaPure has a nice high EPA (anti-inflammatory) content cost / benefit for people who order 10 or more bottles. Life Extension also has a nice high DHA (brain substrate) content cost / benefit for LEF.org members.

Diet plays a key role in reducing inflammation as well, but the implementation of a new diet is more intensive that popping a few pills. The best diet I’ve found is an organic paleo Zone Diet (you can search all the terms).

While Dr. Wahls doesn’t know it, she used what is essentially an organic paleo Zone Diet to completely reverse her late stage multiple sclerosis…

Minding Your Mitochondria
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLjgBLwH3Wc

These Alzheimer’s doctors indicate that processed carbohydrates may be the biggest promoter of Alzheimer’s…

Dr. Richard Isaacson and Dr. Christopher Ochner – The Alzheimer’s Diet: New Hope for Individuals Concerned About Memory Loss – December 18, 2012
http://oneradionetwork.com/diet-and-nutrition/dr-richard-isaacson-and-dr-christopher-ochner-the-alzheimers-diet-new-hope-for-individuals-concerned-about-memory-loss-december-18-2012/

Top Dementia Expert Speaks Out on Alzheimer’s – We’ve Wasted Billions on Drugs When All We Needed Was Prevention
http://oneradionetwork.com/health-articles/71502-article/

Sugar and Your Brain: Is Alzheimer’s Disease Actually Type 3 Diabetes?
http://oneradionetwork.com/health-articles/sugar-and-your-brain-is-alzheimers-disease-actually-type-3-diabetes/

[I haven’t researched the chiropractic angle, but I would recommend that people do so before following that advice. BTW, that’s true of all of this information. Research it all. Reading sales pitches is not akin to research. You need to analyze the studies to make sure their stated results are legitimate (people fudge numbers to maximize profits).

3. Exercise Smartly

Move around. Go on long walks or hikes. Get the heart pumping. Investigate the outdoors. Memorize the spelling of local fawna and flora while you are doing it.

4. Practice memory and cognitive activies. You could memorize the Bill of Rights word for word, for example. You could also complete TheFreeDictionary.com Spelling Bee and memorize the spelling of the words you miss. Memorizing Bible verses or insightful quotes from historical figures works as well. Fine something that interests you and then put in the figurative “sweat.”

5. Some people have had success improving cognitive function by feeding the brain organic coconut oil…

Mary Newport MD – What If There Was a Cure for Alzheimers and No One Knew – December 24,2009
http://oneradionetwork.com/health-challenges-diseases/mary-newport-md-what-if-there-was-a-cure-for-alzheimers-disease-and-no-one-knew-12-24-2009/

6. Minimize Stress

Stress creates cortisol, cortisol generates inflammation and inflammation accelerates brain and body aging. Yoga, meditation, and confidence that it all works out in the end, even if there are difficult times between there and where we find ourselves all can help minimize stress.

I’ve also heard that playing music might help cognitive function. Doing crossword puzzles also stretches your memory.

Get out there and do some research on your own. Find testimonials and then run you own experiments – but be sure to run them by your naturopathic doctor (The super rich use homeopathy and naturopathic medicine, not the allopathic medicine they created for us rabble).

Good luck.


The best way to control the opposition is to finance it. Birds of prey have two wings; the left wing & right wing.
Ray41
Posted: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 12:56:28 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/9/2010
Posts: 1,943
Neurons: 45,980
Location: Orange, New South Wales, Australia
Yeah, right Trivium_Discipulus.

Do not use fluoride, just get brittle bones and rotten teeth!

Don't vaccinate and most or the worlds population will not have to worry about 'memory' because they will either be dead or crippled.

I will not bother listing the number of deadly and life threatening diseases that vaccines have eradicated or controlled as it is a no brainer.

You obviously have not lived in the era of smallpox, polio, typhoid, diphtheria, whooping cough, measles, etc.
I have. I sat in high school alongside a polio victim who was in a wheelchair(he passed away at age 16).

Why do you insist on such negativity? Without vaccines there is a fair chance that you would not exist as some of your predecessors would have succumbed to one of these virulent diseases.

Visit the local cemetery, look at some of the graves where whole families have been wiped out in an epidemic of some kind. Many couples had 12 or more kids with only 1 or 2 surviving.
Check the history of diphtheria, the flue epidemic at the end of WW1, the crippling affects of polio, etc...........

The only thing that I can, and will agree on with you is to eat healthy foods, exercise regularly, take a good fish oil supplement(red krill oil is best) and definitely avoid stress(if possible)Anxious Yes, and doing crossword puzzles also stretches your memory.


I have a flue shot every winter. I would be plain bloody stupid if I did not take advantage of modern medicine to keep me alive and well. My memory has not suffered from them yet!!!!!!



PS: quote: Memorize the spelling of local fawna and flora while you are doing it.

Obviously it doesn't work all of the time!Whistle

While I live I grow.
Trivium_Discipulus
Posted: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 4:29:34 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 12/20/2013
Posts: 819
Neurons: 350,106
Location: San Diego, California, United States
Ray41 wrote:
Yeah, right Trivium_Discipulus.

Do not use fluoride, just get brittle bones and rotten teeth!

Don't vaccinate and most or the worlds population will not have to worry about 'memory' because they will either be dead or crippled.

I will not bother listing the number of deadly and life threatening diseases that vaccines have eradicated or controlled as it is a no brainer.

You obviously have not lived in the era of smallpox, polio, typhoid, diphtheria, whooping cough, measles, etc.
I have. I sat in high school alongside a polio victim who was in a wheelchair(he passed away at age 16).

Why do you insist on such negativity? Without vaccines there is a fair chance that you would not exist as some of your predecessors would have succumbed to one of these virulent diseases.

Visit the local cemetery, look at some of the graves where whole families have been wiped out in an epidemic of some kind. Many couples had 12 or more kids with only 1 or 2 surviving.
Check the history of diphtheria, the flue epidemic at the end of WW1, the crippling affects of polio, etc...........

The only thing that I can, and will agree on with you is to eat healthy foods, exercise regularly, take a good fish oil supplement(red krill oil is best) and definitely avoid stress(if possible)Anxious Yes, and doing crossword puzzles also stretches your memory.


I have a flue shot every winter. I would be plain bloody stupid if I did not take advantage of modern medicine to keep me alive and well. My memory has not suffered from them yet!!!!!!



PS: quote: Memorize the spelling of local fawna and flora while you are doing it.

Obviously it doesn't work all of the time!Whistle


Hi Ray41,

My #1 goal here is to encourage **you** to validate your claims so that you **know** you are making claims based on data and logic and not rhetorical claims of self-interested parties whose agenda may be contrary to your self-interest.

That is the essence of the Trivium Method. It acts as an intellectual self-defense mechanism.

Let’s ask a few questions and see where it leads…

1. Did you condemn the data and logic I provided via links before investigating them? If so, why?

2. Are your conclusions based on establishment declarative statements or firsthand knowledge of the data and logic, ie, the research, involved?

3. Since there is no typhoid vaccine, what mechanism prevents it now?

4. Since there is no vaccine for Scarlett Fever, what mechanism prevents it now?

5. How do you know that the non-vaccine mechanism that all but eliminated typhoid and Scarlett Fever isn’t also playing a major, if not the major role, in all but eliminating a number of the diseases you list as being “vaccine eliminated?” As an aside, President Eisenhower’s son was killed by Scarlett Fever. And remember, correlation is not necessarily causation. Where is the research to PROVE THE CAUSATION

The charts I linked to showed two things in almost every case…

A. The vast majority of the decline in disease mortality occurred before the relevant vaccine was introduced.

B. The introduction of the vaccines didn’t create a consistent change to the first derivative (rate of change) of the decline in mortality. In short, the slope of the mortality decline pretty much stayed the same post vaccine as pre-vaccine, the clear indication being that there is no proof at all that vaccines had an impact on disease mortality. In short, if I showed you those charts, you can’t know when the vaccine was introduced by observing the charted data.

6. Why did you claim that a lack of fluoride in the water causes brittle teeth when the exact opposite is true, according to the research? Dental fluorosis is a well known condition where teeth (and bones – skeletal fluorosis) become brittle. In other words, the fluoride in the water actually damages your teeth, completely contrary to your assertion that a lack of it damages teeth. My father is a retired physician who promoted fluoridation his entire career. When presented with the fact that EPA scientists union opposed water fluoridation BASED ON SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH, he claimed to have researched it himself. I asked him for that research, because that’s how I reach conclusions… I analyze data and remove fallacies and contradictions so I can analyze what is left (The Trivium Method). He promised to give me his research AND NEVER DID. HE DOESN’T WANT TO DISCUSS THE TOPIC ANYMORE. My dentist was also asked to provide evidence to support the belief that fluoridated water is both safe and effective. She can’t either. Two professionals caught repeating something they can’t prove through science and research.

7. Of all the people that die of the flu, how many had flu shots? As an engineer, this information would be a #1 priority for me to ensure the efficacy of the product. You can't find the data anywhere. If you think the flu shot works, fine. Many people believe in horoscopes, too. Prove it scientifically. Don't assume it because government told you. BTW, if you think the scientific community can't be corrupted by money, well, Eisenhower disagreed with you (read his farewell address in full). I do, too. Science is easily corrupted by billions of dollars. Anything is easily corrupted by billions of dollars.

Let me guess, you can’t support your position, either?

Why not? A billion dollar industry can’t post the declarative research on a website for all to see?

I’ve looked, and I can’t find it. You have an excellent opportunity to provide it, right here and right now.

But, like my father and my dentist, whom I really like, BTW, you will almost present nothing at all, let alone anything of substance. You will just make a claim and feel special because the wealthiest special interests have propagandized that claim.

I recommend that you investigate and understand the data and logic present in the links that I presented in my original post BEFORE condemning it, lest you perfectly fit into Einstein’s definition of “the height of ignorance.”

Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance."
~Albert Einstein

BTW, I LOVE data and logic contrary to my current point of view. I pursue truth and enjoy being proven wrong with data and logic because that means my pursuit of truth has yielded good fruit.

So, use data and logic to prove my current view wrong and I can thank you for it.

But don’t try and “declare truth” to me without any back up.

I’m not a sucker and I won’t fall for an Appeal to Authority and/or an Appeal to Popularity logical fallacy (logical lie).

I look forward to your data and logic…

PS - if you actually want to have a discussion, we can address a single topic at a time. If you want to dictate without providing any supporting evidence, well, you are free to make a bad choice.

The best way to control the opposition is to finance it. Birds of prey have two wings; the left wing & right wing.
Trivium_Discipulus
Posted: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 4:34:53 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 12/20/2013
Posts: 819
Neurons: 350,106
Location: San Diego, California, United States
Ray41 wrote:
PS: quote: Memorize the spelling of local fawna and flora while you are doing it.

Obviously it doesn't work all of the time!Whistle


I clear misspelled that - not a typo. Thanks for the correction.

Fauna it is - and I won't forget it now. ;-)

See what happens when you provide data and logic instead of repeat the dictates of others with no substantiation?

And no, I'm not perfect. Not even close.

But I do try and improve and help others improve.

As opposed to, you know, gloating over the (however minor) failings of others.

The best way to control the opposition is to finance it. Birds of prey have two wings; the left wing & right wing.
Trivium_Discipulus
Posted: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 11:14:42 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 12/20/2013
Posts: 819
Neurons: 350,106
Location: San Diego, California, United States
Bertrand Russell painted a bleak picture of the purpose of American schooling...

"Scientific societies are as yet in their infancy. . . . It is to be expected that advances in physiology and psychology will give governments much more control over individual mentality than they now have even in totalitarian countries. Fitche laid it down that education should aim at destroying free will, so that, after pupils have left school, they shall be incapable, throughout the rest of their lives, of thinking or acting otherwise than as their schoolmasters would have wished. . . . Diet, injections, and injunctions will combine, from a very early age, to produce the sort of character and the sort of beliefs that the authorities consider desirable, and any serious criticism of the powers that be will become psychologically impossible. . . .”
~Bertrand Russell,1953

"Incapable... of thinking or acting otherwise than as their (Money Power financed) schoolmasters would have wished."

"We all have a tendency to think that the world must conform to our prejudices. The opposite view involves some effort of thought, and most people would die sooner than think – in fact they do so."
~Bertrand Russell, The ABC of Relativity (1925), p. 166.

"Real education must ultimately be limited to men who insist on knowing, the rest is mere sheep-herding."
~Ezra Pound

“The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance -- it is the illusion of knowledge.”
~Daniel J. Boorstin

I represent an autonomous Ray41 that rejects sheep herding and uses his own brain to determine fact from fiction. All I'm asking you to do is prove your point of view with data and logic (research). If you can't how do you know you don't believe a profit maximizing special interest financed illusion? The truth is, you don't.

The establishment represents "don't make waves, Ray41, don't do any research, just believe what we teach you. Go along to get along [with our self serving agenda]."

Do you prefer the latter state of being?

Here is what you've never considered.

1. The LEGAL corporate mandate of Big Pharma is to MAXIMIZE PROFITS.

2. Big Pharma finances medical school (allopathic medicine financed originally by John D. Rockefeller)

3. John D. Rockefeller REJECTED allopathic medicine for himself, as did the European royalty and other mega financiers within their "club."

Read about it in "Rockefeller Medicine Men" - they admit it clear as day. Also search "David de Rothschild" and note he's a naturopathic doctor, NOT an allopathic doctor. Then search "Rothschild castles" to see how much loot that family has stolen from the productive classes over centuries.

Rockefeller Medicine Men
https://archive.org/details/rockefellermedic00browrich

4. Why did the creators of allopathic medicine both reject it for themselves and then finance the narrative that the medicine system they used for themselves, homeopathic and naturopathic medicine, was "quackery?"

5. Where are all the Rockefeller, Royal and International Banker autistic children? You know, THE PEOPLE THAT OWN BIG PHARMA, YET REJECT ALLOPATHIC MEDICINE PROMOTED BY THE BIG PHARMA THEY OWN AND CONTROL. By the way, this is called a contradiction and you need to logically address it with you paradigm of reality?

6. If the vaccines given to the plebs are so good, why do the political class get "special vaccines?"

Government to get special swine flu vaccine
http://www.thelocal.de/20091018/22649

7. Given that Big Pharma's LEGAL CORPORATE MANDATE is to MAXIMIZE PROFITS, WHY WOULD BIG PHARMA TELL THE PLEBS HOW TO BE HEALTHY SO THAT THEIR PROFITS WOULD BE MINIMIZED? Wouldn't a Big Pharma CEO that did that get fired from his $15 million dollar a year "job?"

I updated my spelling of fauna (thanks, BTW), how about you do some research and report back here... fair?

After all, you wouldn't want to be a dupe repeating propaganda that was engineered as a Big Lie to maximize profits for Big Pharma, would you? You know, the same crowd that grows organic for themselves while turning pleb food into pesticide saturated "food" and pesticide impregnated "food."

The best way to control the opposition is to finance it. Birds of prey have two wings; the left wing & right wing.
Ray41
Posted: Thursday, February 20, 2014 6:49:03 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/9/2010
Posts: 1,943
Neurons: 45,980
Location: Orange, New South Wales, Australia
My post was not about companies making mega bucks, it was about the role vaccines have played in the eradication of some diseases(smallpox) and the control of many others.http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Smallpox

Rinderpest, an animal disease eradicated like smallpox; http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Rinderpest
***************************************************************************************************************

Quote:
Hi Ray41,

My #1 goal here is to encourage **you** to validate your claims so that you **know** you are making claims based on data and logic and not rhetorical claims of self-interested parties whose agenda may be contrary to your self-interest.

That is the essence of the Trivium Method. It acts as an intellectual self-defense mechanism.

Let’s ask a few questions and see where it leads…

1. Did you condemn the data and logic I provided via links before investigating them? If so, why?

I do not have to read data that tries to refute what I have personally witnessed as proven.

2. Are your conclusions based on establishment declarative statements or firsthand knowledge of the data and logic, ie, the research, involved?

My conclusions are based on first hand knowledge, logic and involvement.
I said that I am old enough to have lived in the era of many infectious diseases that have now been controlled by vaccines. No need to elaborate, just look up the statistics for polio in the US, pre vaccine, just for starters.
I am also a retired farmer, among other things, so I have personally vaccinated tens of thousands of livestock to prevent a myriad number of diseases threatening/decimating the flock/herd.
My grandfather died from tetanus, no vaccine available then. I have seen a complete drop(hundreds) of lambs die from tetanus because the owner did not vaccinate(just one of many examples that I could cite).


3. Since there is no typhoid vaccine, what mechanism prevents it now?
Wrong. http://www.myvaccination.com.au/typhoid.aspx

4. Since there is no vaccine for Scarlett Fever, what mechanism prevents it now?

I did not mention Scarlet Fever! I did have it as a child and nearly died, just as I would have died from Whooping Cough if my mother had not been more dedicated to her family than most. I was fortunate not to have contracted rheumatic fever when infected with Scarlet Fever as Antibiotics were yet to be discovered.

6. Why did you claim that a lack of fluoride in the water causes brittle teeth when the exact opposite is true, according to the research? Dental fluorosis is a well known condition where teeth (and bones – skeletal fluorosis) become brittle. In other words, the fluoride in the water actually damages your teeth, completely contrary to your assertion that a lack of it damages teeth.

A lack of fluoride results in poor teeth and brittle bones(particularly in older people).
Like all things, there is a balance, just as one can overdose on vitamins, so one can overdose on trace elements.
There are Artesian Bores in Queensland that are so high in fluoride that the farmers buy in stock to fatten and sell as it is not possible to run breeders. Why? Because by the time the sheep/cattle are 4 years old their bones are brittle (skeletal fluorosis) due to excessive fluoride in the drinking water.
I had a property that had soil deficiencies so I had trace element samples done. One such deficiency was selenium which meant that many lambs died from white muscle disease. All ewes were prelamb drenched with worming drenches and added selenium. End of problem.
I have always been innovative. I was the largest user of liquid seaweed in the country as seaweed contains a multitude of beneficial elements. I even drenched the stock with it. The health of my flock/herd/crops was without peer. I also used salt blocks to administer copper, cobalt and iodine to the stock(recognised as being deficient by chemical analysis).
The water was crystal clear(no fluoride) from the mountains and this was also our domestic supply. All my children were on fluoride tablets and at a now mean average age of 42 years, all have perfect teeth(never any cavities). My oldest two sons were Dux at their school with the one of highest tertiary education rankings (TER) in NSW, went on to University and now have highly paid positions(one gets paid $600,000 annually, more than I ever received in any 10 year period of farming). No memory problems either.


Also, quote: "Real education must ultimately be limited to men who insist on knowing, the rest is mere sheep-herding."
~Ezra Pound

Think As a farmer I was also a sheep herder and, in order to protect my flock went to considerable trouble to get soil analysed. Soil deficiencies have played a major role in stock management and with the knowledge available to discern just what is deficient and just how much copper, boron, molybdenum, etc. is needed to get the correct balance has resulted in unproductive land being restored to rich grazing/farming use.
It is all a matter of balance.

I could post a long list of links to justify my position on vaccinations and fluoride(among other natural occurring deficiencies in many areas, like iodine in North Vietnam), but, I would run out of time and space.


Quote: And no, I'm not perfect. Not even close. (neither am I, perfection is what I strife for though).

But I do try and improve and help others improve. (As long as what you help others with is impartial, that is an excellent trait).

As opposed to, you know, gloating over the (however minor) failings of others. (I was not gloating, just injecting a touch of humour. There is also only one T in 'scarlet'). Whistle

While I live I grow.
Luker4
Posted: Thursday, February 20, 2014 12:22:20 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 11/19/2013
Posts: 4,189
Neurons: 22,537
Location: Wrocław Pracze, Lower Silesian Voivodeship, Poland
Luker4
Posted: Thursday, February 20, 2014 12:27:46 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 11/19/2013
Posts: 4,189
Neurons: 22,537
Location: Wrocław Pracze, Lower Silesian Voivodeship, Poland
Trivium_Discipulus
Posted: Thursday, February 20, 2014 1:31:26 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 12/20/2013
Posts: 819
Neurons: 350,106
Location: San Diego, California, United States
Hi Ray,

>>My post was not about companies making mega bucks, it was about the role vaccines have played in the eradication of some diseases(smallpox) and the control of many others.http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Smallpox<<

I only found declarative statements, not research supporting the declarative statement.

"The English physician Edward Jenner demonstrated the effectiveness of cowpox to protect humans from smallpox in 1796, after which various attempts were made to eliminate smallpox on a regional scale."

The above is NOT research. It is a rhetorical claim. Is it true? Is it propaganda and indoctrination?

You don't know, YOU CAN'T KNOW, unless you see the underlying research that supports the claim.

Do you disagree with this assertion?

WHERE IS THE DATA AND THE LOGIC? That is what I asked for initially and you failed to provide it. Why?

Simply because a statement is declared by an authority does not make it true.

The whole flat Earth debacle should have taught us at least that, right?

Where is the data and logic (research) that supports that conclusion?

This is the crux of the matter. If you can't support it with actual research, THEN YOU CAN'T KNOW IT!

Given multi billion dollar industries are behind this agenda, it should be trivial to find such support.

The fact you didn't find it and present it is a form of the "red pill."

I found actual data regarding smallpox and, at least in some cases, the incidence of smallpox INCREASED after "demonstrated the effectiveness of cowpox to protect humans from smallpox in 1796" and, in fact, in some years the vaccine killed more people than smallpox!

Vaccination: A Mythical History ~ by Roman Bystrianyk and Suzanne Humphries MD

http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2013/08/27/vaccination-a-mythical-history-by-roman-bystrianyk-and-suzanne-humphries-md/#sthash.59edgci6.dpuf

That is what data looks like. Once presented, it is possible to critique the data and challenge it - and please review it and challenge it.

But, WHEN NO DATA AND LOGIC IS PRESENTED, IT CAN'T BE CHALLENGED, CAN IT?

This is critical - I'm trying to explain the process and application of intellectual self-defense to you (The Trivium Method).

Grammar, Logic and Rhetoric... the keys to a mind liberating education, hence, called the first three of the original "liberal arts." The current liberal arts are a counterfeit of the original.

You can't know something unless you put in the effort to understand the grammar and the logic of the subject. PERIOD.

Putting the logic before the grammar is irrational. Even worse is putting the Rhetoric before either grammar or logic. I don't care if the establishment invested 15,000 hours training you to do EXACTLY that - to the eternal benefit of the people who imported the Prussian schooling (not educating - the Trivium is education, schooling is indoctrination) system to America. You know, the one that resulted in nearly all intellectual fealty being handed over to the Nazi establishment.

Where is the data and the logic?

>>I am also a retired farmer, among other things, so I have personally vaccinated tens of thousands of livestock to prevent a myriad number of diseases threatening/decimating the flock/herd.
My grandfather died from tetanus, no vaccine available then. I have seen a complete drop(hundreds) of lambs die from tetanus because the owner did not vaccinate(just one of many examples that I could cite).<<

Eisenhower's son died of Scarlet Fever. NO VACCINE NOW.

Where is the data and logic to support you conclusion? It should be trivial to find.

Can you provide your anecdotal data - say, how many livestock you had dying due to various diseases before and after vaccination? I would be interested - that is part of the data collection process.

Also, it seems reasonable that what you observed regarding animals would also hold true for humans, but that's not necessarily true. Maybe, maybe not. WHERE'S THE DATA AND LOGIC THAT PROVES IT? If true, it should be trivial to prove, right? The fact you haven't been able 1. understand my request and/or 2. actually answer my request should be big red flags that something might not be right.

Applying some logic - just because one vaccine works doesn't mean they all work or that even any others work. We need research to reasonably prove it, right? Where might that be?

In addition, assuming the vaccinations are effective in humans, which you've yet to demonstrate with actual science (science is pretty cool stuff and should be applied to vaccination, right? We shouldn't be forced to **assume** it works, we are worthy individuals that have the right to see the actual research for ourselves, right? Or is questioning authorities no persona non gratis in what used to be America?), what about the costs of vaccination?

I have a 4 year old nephew that can't talk and a good friend with a 3 year old that can't talk.

Vaccines and Brain Inflammation
http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2011/06/01/vaccines-and-brain-inflammation/

This is especially a concern when the financial oligarchs that OWN and CONTROL Big Pharma promote people whose agenda it is to "impair brain function of large populations."

"In this way, one could develop a system that would seriously impair the brain performance of very large populations in selected regions over an extended period.... No matter how deeply disturbing the thought of using the environment to manipulate behavior for national advantages to some, the technology permitting such use will very probably develop within the next few decades."
~Zbigniew Brzezinski, Between Two Ages

He also wants to set up an elitist, authoritarian America... and right thinking citizens would seriously resist such an agenda, right?

“The technetronic era involves the gradual appearance of a more controlled society. Such a society would be dominated by an elite, unrestrained by traditional values. Soon it will be possible to assert almost continuous surveillance over every citizen and maintain up-to-date complete files containing even the most personal information about the citizen. These files will be subject to instantaneous retrieval by the authorities.”
~Zbigniew Brzezinski, Between Two Ages

The brain damaged, not so much.

Would you let Jeffrey Dahmer give you an unknown vaccine? I can make a helluva argument that the financially oligarchy is so much more evil than Jeffrey Dahmer... It is a different topic, but I'll explain how debt money fraud and financial election rigging are used to run 3rd world countries as nation state sized Ghettos modeled after Hitler's Warsaw Ghetto model. Yes, this model forces 10s of millions of human being like you and yours to starve to death unnecessarily. Hitler didn't have to shoot people who died in the Ghetto, he just denied them resources. The same is true of the international banking syndicate, except at the nation state level.

So, maybe some vaccines work (only the data and logic in each case will reveal the truth... or the lack thereof conceal the truth!), but maybe there is a sinister agenda.

How many people died of the SV40 cancer virus in the polio vaccine? Oh, they didn't tell you about that "goodie," did they? No wonder the financial oligarchs and their political puppets get "special vaccines," if they take them at all.

My son tells me his brain races uncontrollably but, fortunately, high levels of super refined EPA and DHA and helped him keep it under reasonable control.

>>Wrong. http://www.myvaccination.com.au/typhoid.aspx<<

I didn't know that. I have some research to do. Thanks for pointing that out. I will set aside some time to do the research at some point in the future.

4. Since there is no vaccine for Scarlett Fever, what mechanism prevents it now?

>>I did not mention Scarlet Fever! I did have it as a child and nearly died, just as I would have died from Whooping Cough if my mother had not been more dedicated to her family than most. I was fortunate not to have contracted rheumatic fever when infected with Scarlet Fever as Antibiotics were yet to be discovered.<<

Your answer was nonresponsive. Let me repeat the question again. Since there is no vaccine for Scarlett Fever, what mechanism prevents it now?

It doesn't matter if you mentioned it or not. This is not a competition between you and I and I'm not trying to lay a "trap" and I hope you aren't trying to avoid a "trap." We are two autodidacts trying to better understand reality in a reasonable way... by letting data and logic, not rhetoric devoid of data and logic, guide our path. At least that is my hope.

6. >>A lack of fluoride results in poor teeth and brittle bones(particularly in older people).
Like all things, there is a balance, just as one can overdose on vitamins, so one can overdose on trace elements.
There are Artesian Bores in Queensland that are so high in fluoride that the farmers buy in stock to fatten and sell as it is not possible to run breeders. Why? Because by the time the sheep/cattle are 4 years old their bones are brittle (skeletal fluorosis) due to excessive fluoride in the drinking water.
I had a property that had soil deficiencies so I had trace element samples done. One such deficiency was selenium which meant that many lambs died from white muscle disease. All ewes were prelamb drenched with worming drenches and added selenium. End of problem.
I have always been innovative. I was the largest user of liquid seaweed in the country as seaweed contains a multitude of beneficial elements. I even drenched the stock with it. The health of my flock/herd/crops was without peer. I also used salt blocks to administer copper, cobalt and iodine to the stock (recognised as being deficient by chemical analysis).
The water was crystal clear(no fluoride) from the mountains and this was also our domestic supply. All my children were on fluoride tablets and at a now mean average age of 42 years, all have perfect teeth(never any cavities). My oldest two sons were Dux at their school with the one of highest tertiary education rankings (TER) in NSW, went on to University and now have highly paid positions(one gets paid $600,000 annually, more than I ever received in any 10 year period of farming). No memory problems either.
<<

First of all, your farming methods do sound innovative. If you haven't already, you could post what you did that led to such great success on the internet so other small farmers can test and, possibly, benefit from what you experienced. Us common people have to bad together.

Back on point - you didn't provide any research at all. Why? Is it because it doesn't exist? I haven't been able to find it and I'm pretty tenacious when it comes to research.

If it doesn't exist, how can you know it? Truth can't be proved by anecdotal evidence, but anecdotal evidence ought to guide us toward testable hypotheses.

Serious questions. I'm certain you understand the simple logic I'm putting forth.

I know you believe it, BUT CAN YOU PROVE IT? Yes or no? Simple question. If yes, please document your data and logic proof. You can believe something you can't prove, but you can't know it, by definition. While that can be bad, I believe a lot of things are very likely that I can't prove because I don't have the funds to do the proper research and the people who do make a lot of money concealing information from the public.

But I know I don't know it.

BTW, you can't know if your children were cognitively impaired or not because you don't know the alternate reality. You choose to believe that, but you can't know it.

Making lots of money doesn't necessarily equate to success in my book. In our fraudulent debt based monetary system, all it means is that your son has an exceptional ability to saturate others with debt.

No, it isn't his fault and he probably doesn't even understand how the system works due to his schooling (indoctrination + regurgitation is schooling, not education!).

BTW, that fraudulent debt that your son slings will destroy America. I'm not attacking your son, we all sling fraudulent debt, including myself. The more I save in preparation of the forthcoming financial debt Ponzi implosion... the more other people are indebted, by definition. It is such an evil system that circumscribes the human spirit.

The Debt Money Tyrants are destroying the small farm - your heritage. They regulate small farms to death and then exempt their Big Agra mega-corporations.

Yes, the same people that want to impair brain functions as a stated goal and who admit to covertly putting toxins into the water and developing vaccines that will sterilize people...

Adding a sterilant to drinking water or staple foods is a suggestion that seems to horrify people more than most proposals for involuntary fertility control. Indeed, this would pose some very difficult political, legal, and social questions, to say nothing of the technical problems."
~John P. Holdren, current US "Science Czar"

http://zombietime.com/john_holdren/

Also note that the Rockefeller Foundation was working to implement a "sterilant vaccine" back in 1968...

Rockefeller Foundation Developed Vaccines For “Mass-Scale” Fertility Reduction
http://www.infowars.com/rockefeller-foundation-developed-vaccines-for-%E2%80%9Cmass-scale%E2%80%9D-fertility-reduction/

The link to the actual Rockefeller Foundation report is in the article.

BTW, human predators seeking to harness human resources and plunder them WILL NOT EVER ADMIT TO IT! You have to go to the source data and figure it out yourself!

>>Think As a farmer I was also a sheep herder and, in order to protect my flock went to considerable trouble to get soil analysed. Soil deficiencies have played a major role in stock management and with the knowledge available to discern just what is deficient and just how much copper, boron, molybdenum, etc. is needed to get the correct balance has resulted in unproductive land being restored to rich grazing/farming use.
It is all a matter of balance.<<

See how empowered you are when you ask real questions and seek substantial answers?

I'm trying to de-domesticate myself and I'd love to know all your secrets to success in gardening and livestock maintenance. I'm sure a lot of others would like that information, too.

BTW, allopathic doctors, "the best of modern medicine," claim that nutrition is all but worthless outside of a few parameters like having some vitamin C. Did you know that? You have substantial anecdotal evidence that isn't true in animals. Why does Big Pharma teach that to doctors? BTW, I believing nutrition is HUGE, but will minimize Big Pharma profits and counter their stated agenda to "seriously impair brain function" and that is why they don't tell the truth.


>>I could post a long list of links to justify my position on vaccinations and fluoride(among other natural occurring deficiencies in many areas, like iodine in North Vietnam), but, I would run out of time and space.


Ray, that's a cop out.

BTW, I supplement with iodine in the US! I'm with you on the importance of vitamins and minerals. I'm a big fan of the organic paleo Zone Diet and this is one heckuva an anecdote for it...

Minding Your Mitochondria
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLjgBLwH3Wc

BTW, don't ever expect Big Pharma to inform their students of Dr. Wahls' dietary success or to fund any research into it.

They won't. Dr. Wahls is minimizing Big Pharma profits.

>>Quote: And no, I'm not perfect. Not even close. [color=indigo](neither am I, perfection is what I strife for though).
<<

That's all we can do.

>>But I do try and improve and help others improve. [color=indigo](As long as what you help others with is impartial, that is an excellent trait).<<

I do my best to base my conclusion on a wide array of data and logic.

I'm not arguing a position, I'm asking, pleading even, for data that legitimately counters my current belief system because I want to test my current paradigm against the best data and logic possible.

Note that when I made recommendations, I posted data and logic out of respect for my readers to make up their own mind based on their own research.

I didn't simply make a declarative claim.

I also encourage others to use their mind to gather data and logic and challenge everything to prove all things... and declarative statements are not equivalent to truth.

>>As opposed to, you know, gloating over the (however minor) failings of others. (I was not gloating, just injecting a touch of humour. There is also only one T in 'scarlet'). Whistle <<

Yep, got that one wrong, too. ;-)

I think I need to spend more time on the "hard" spelling bee and less on the "expert" spelling bee (but I get more points with "expert!". ;-) Yes, I typed it with two "t"s previously in this post, too - not a typo.

fauna and scarlet - kind of like missing those words in a spelling bee... I'll remember them now.

Based on our discussion here, I need to investigate the role of antibiotics in Scarlet (one t!) Fever. However, antibiotics don't act as a preventative, they act as a treatment. Anyway, more research required as to why Scarlet Fever essentially went away without vaccination and if that same mechanism can apply to other vaccine based diseases.

I look at the charts posted in my first post (did you look at those mortality charts) and vaccines essentially appear to have zero impact - even negative impact in some cases. The data doesn't appear to match the propaganda, at least from a mortality standpoint.

The best way to control the opposition is to finance it. Birds of prey have two wings; the left wing & right wing.
Trivium_Discipulus
Posted: Thursday, February 20, 2014 1:31:35 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 12/20/2013
Posts: 819
Neurons: 350,106
Location: San Diego, California, United States
Hi Ray,

>>My post was not about companies making mega bucks, it was about the role vaccines have played in the eradication of some diseases(smallpox) and the control of many others.http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Smallpox<<

I only found declarative statements, not research supporting the declarative statement.

"The English physician Edward Jenner demonstrated the effectiveness of cowpox to protect humans from smallpox in 1796, after which various attempts were made to eliminate smallpox on a regional scale."

The above is NOT research. It is a rhetorical claim. Is it true? Is it propaganda and indoctrination?

You don't know, YOU CAN'T KNOW, unless you see the underlying research that supports the claim.

Do you disagree with this assertion?

WHERE IS THE DATA AND THE LOGIC? That is what I asked for initially and you failed to provide it. Why?

Simply because a statement is declared by an authority does not make it true.

The whole flat Earth debacle should have taught us at least that, right?

Where is the data and logic (research) that supports that conclusion?

This is the crux of the matter. If you can't support it with actual research, THEN YOU CAN'T KNOW IT!

Given multi billion dollar industries are behind this agenda, it should be trivial to find such support.

The fact you didn't find it and present it is a form of the "red pill."

I found actual data regarding smallpox and, at least in some cases, the incidence of smallpox INCREASED after "demonstrated the effectiveness of cowpox to protect humans from smallpox in 1796" and, in fact, in some years the vaccine killed more people than smallpox!

Vaccination: A Mythical History ~ by Roman Bystrianyk and Suzanne Humphries MD

http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2013/08/27/vaccination-a-mythical-history-by-roman-bystrianyk-and-suzanne-humphries-md/#sthash.59edgci6.dpuf

That is what data looks like. Once presented, it is possible to critique the data and challenge it - and please review it and challenge it.

But, WHEN NO DATA AND LOGIC IS PRESENTED, IT CAN'T BE CHALLENGED, CAN IT?

This is critical - I'm trying to explain the process and application of intellectual self-defense to you (The Trivium Method).

Grammar, Logic and Rhetoric... the keys to a mind liberating education, hence, called the first three of the original "liberal arts." The current liberal arts are a counterfeit of the original.

You can't know something unless you put in the effort to understand the grammar and the logic of the subject. PERIOD.

Putting the logic before the grammar is irrational. Even worse is putting the Rhetoric before either grammar or logic. I don't care if the establishment invested 15,000 hours training you to do EXACTLY that - to the eternal benefit of the people who imported the Prussian schooling (not educating - the Trivium is education, schooling is indoctrination) system to America. You know, the one that resulted in nearly all intellectual fealty being handed over to the Nazi establishment.

Where is the data and the logic?

>>I am also a retired farmer, among other things, so I have personally vaccinated tens of thousands of livestock to prevent a myriad number of diseases threatening/decimating the flock/herd.
My grandfather died from tetanus, no vaccine available then. I have seen a complete drop(hundreds) of lambs die from tetanus because the owner did not vaccinate(just one of many examples that I could cite).<<

Eisenhower's son died of Scarlet Fever. NO VACCINE NOW.

Where is the data and logic to support you conclusion? It should be trivial to find.

Can you provide your anecdotal data - say, how many livestock you had dying due to various diseases before and after vaccination? I would be interested - that is part of the data collection process.

Also, it seems reasonable that what you observed regarding animals would also hold true for humans, but that's not necessarily true. Maybe, maybe not. WHERE'S THE DATA AND LOGIC THAT PROVES IT? If true, it should be trivial to prove, right? The fact you haven't been able 1. understand my request and/or 2. actually answer my request should be big red flags that something might not be right.

Applying some logic - just because one vaccine works doesn't mean they all work or that even any others work. We need research to reasonably prove it, right? Where might that be?

In addition, assuming the vaccinations are effective in humans, which you've yet to demonstrate with actual science (science is pretty cool stuff and should be applied to vaccination, right? We shouldn't be forced to **assume** it works, we are worthy individuals that have the right to see the actual research for ourselves, right? Or is questioning authorities no persona non gratis in what used to be America?), what about the costs of vaccination?

I have a 4 year old nephew that can't talk and a good friend with a 3 year old that can't talk.

Vaccines and Brain Inflammation
http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2011/06/01/vaccines-and-brain-inflammation/

This is especially a concern when the financial oligarchs that OWN and CONTROL Big Pharma promote people whose agenda it is to "impair brain function of large populations."

"In this way, one could develop a system that would seriously impair the brain performance of very large populations in selected regions over an extended period.... No matter how deeply disturbing the thought of using the environment to manipulate behavior for national advantages to some, the technology permitting such use will very probably develop within the next few decades."
~Zbigniew Brzezinski, Between Two Ages

He also wants to set up an elitist, authoritarian America... and right thinking citizens would seriously resist such an agenda, right?

“The technetronic era involves the gradual appearance of a more controlled society. Such a society would be dominated by an elite, unrestrained by traditional values. Soon it will be possible to assert almost continuous surveillance over every citizen and maintain up-to-date complete files containing even the most personal information about the citizen. These files will be subject to instantaneous retrieval by the authorities.”
~Zbigniew Brzezinski, Between Two Ages

The brain damaged, not so much.

Would you let Jeffrey Dahmer give you an unknown vaccine? I can make a helluva argument that the financially oligarchy is so much more evil than Jeffrey Dahmer... It is a different topic, but I'll explain how debt money fraud and financial election rigging are used to run 3rd world countries as nation state sized Ghettos modeled after Hitler's Warsaw Ghetto model. Yes, this model forces 10s of millions of human being like you and yours to starve to death unnecessarily. Hitler didn't have to shoot people who died in the Ghetto, he just denied them resources. The same is true of the international banking syndicate, except at the nation state level.

So, maybe some vaccines work (only the data and logic in each case will reveal the truth... or the lack thereof conceal the truth!), but maybe there is a sinister agenda.

How many people died of the SV40 cancer virus in the polio vaccine? Oh, they didn't tell you about that "goodie," did they? No wonder the financial oligarchs and their political puppets get "special vaccines," if they take them at all.

My son tells me his brain races uncontrollably but, fortunately, high levels of super refined EPA and DHA and helped him keep it under reasonable control.

>>Wrong. http://www.myvaccination.com.au/typhoid.aspx<<

I didn't know that. I have some research to do. Thanks for pointing that out. I will set aside some time to do the research at some point in the future.

4. Since there is no vaccine for Scarlett Fever, what mechanism prevents it now?

>>I did not mention Scarlet Fever! I did have it as a child and nearly died, just as I would have died from Whooping Cough if my mother had not been more dedicated to her family than most. I was fortunate not to have contracted rheumatic fever when infected with Scarlet Fever as Antibiotics were yet to be discovered.<<

Your answer was nonresponsive. Let me repeat the question again. Since there is no vaccine for Scarlett Fever, what mechanism prevents it now?

It doesn't matter if you mentioned it or not. This is not a competition between you and I and I'm not trying to lay a "trap" and I hope you aren't trying to avoid a "trap." We are two autodidacts trying to better understand reality in a reasonable way... by letting data and logic, not rhetoric devoid of data and logic, guide our path. At least that is my hope.

6. >>A lack of fluoride results in poor teeth and brittle bones(particularly in older people).
Like all things, there is a balance, just as one can overdose on vitamins, so one can overdose on trace elements.
There are Artesian Bores in Queensland that are so high in fluoride that the farmers buy in stock to fatten and sell as it is not possible to run breeders. Why? Because by the time the sheep/cattle are 4 years old their bones are brittle (skeletal fluorosis) due to excessive fluoride in the drinking water.
I had a property that had soil deficiencies so I had trace element samples done. One such deficiency was selenium which meant that many lambs died from white muscle disease. All ewes were prelamb drenched with worming drenches and added selenium. End of problem.
I have always been innovative. I was the largest user of liquid seaweed in the country as seaweed contains a multitude of beneficial elements. I even drenched the stock with it. The health of my flock/herd/crops was without peer. I also used salt blocks to administer copper, cobalt and iodine to the stock (recognised as being deficient by chemical analysis).
The water was crystal clear(no fluoride) from the mountains and this was also our domestic supply. All my children were on fluoride tablets and at a now mean average age of 42 years, all have perfect teeth(never any cavities). My oldest two sons were Dux at their school with the one of highest tertiary education rankings (TER) in NSW, went on to University and now have highly paid positions(one gets paid $600,000 annually, more than I ever received in any 10 year period of farming). No memory problems either.
<<

First of all, your farming methods do sound innovative. If you haven't already, you could post what you did that led to such great success on the internet so other small farmers can test and, possibly, benefit from what you experienced. Us common people have to bad together.

Back on point - you didn't provide any research at all. Why? Is it because it doesn't exist? I haven't been able to find it and I'm pretty tenacious when it comes to research.

If it doesn't exist, how can you know it? Truth can't be proved by anecdotal evidence, but anecdotal evidence ought to guide us toward testable hypotheses.

Serious questions. I'm certain you understand the simple logic I'm putting forth.

I know you believe it, BUT CAN YOU PROVE IT? Yes or no? Simple question. If yes, please document your data and logic proof. You can believe something you can't prove, but you can't know it, by definition. While that can be bad, I believe a lot of things are very likely that I can't prove because I don't have the funds to do the proper research and the people who do make a lot of money concealing information from the public.

But I know I don't know it.

BTW, you can't know if your children were cognitively impaired or not because you don't know the alternate reality. You choose to believe that, but you can't know it.

Making lots of money doesn't necessarily equate to success in my book. In our fraudulent debt based monetary system, all it means is that your son has an exceptional ability to saturate others with debt.

No, it isn't his fault and he probably doesn't even understand how the system works due to his schooling (indoctrination + regurgitation is schooling, not education!).

BTW, that fraudulent debt that your son slings will destroy America. I'm not attacking your son, we all sling fraudulent debt, including myself. The more I save in preparation of the forthcoming financial debt Ponzi implosion... the more other people are indebted, by definition. It is such an evil system that circumscribes the human spirit.

The Debt Money Tyrants are destroying the small farm - your heritage. They regulate small farms to death and then exempt their Big Agra mega-corporations.

Yes, the same people that want to impair brain functions as a stated goal and who admit to covertly putting toxins into the water and developing vaccines that will sterilize people...

Adding a sterilant to drinking water or staple foods is a suggestion that seems to horrify people more than most proposals for involuntary fertility control. Indeed, this would pose some very difficult political, legal, and social questions, to say nothing of the technical problems."
~John P. Holdren, current US "Science Czar"

http://zombietime.com/john_holdren/

Also note that the Rockefeller Foundation was working to implement a "sterilant vaccine" back in 1968...

Rockefeller Foundation Developed Vaccines For “Mass-Scale” Fertility Reduction
http://www.infowars.com/rockefeller-foundation-developed-vaccines-for-%E2%80%9Cmass-scale%E2%80%9D-fertility-reduction/

The link to the actual Rockefeller Foundation report is in the article.

BTW, human predators seeking to harness human resources and plunder them WILL NOT EVER ADMIT TO IT! You have to go to the source data and figure it out yourself!

>>Think As a farmer I was also a sheep herder and, in order to protect my flock went to considerable trouble to get soil analysed. Soil deficiencies have played a major role in stock management and with the knowledge available to discern just what is deficient and just how much copper, boron, molybdenum, etc. is needed to get the correct balance has resulted in unproductive land being restored to rich grazing/farming use.
It is all a matter of balance.<<

See how empowered you are when you ask real questions and seek substantial answers?

I'm trying to de-domesticate myself and I'd love to know all your secrets to success in gardening and livestock maintenance. I'm sure a lot of others would like that information, too.

BTW, allopathic doctors, "the best of modern medicine," claim that nutrition is all but worthless outside of a few parameters like having some vitamin C. Did you know that? You have substantial anecdotal evidence that isn't true in animals. Why does Big Pharma teach that to doctors? BTW, I believing nutrition is HUGE, but will minimize Big Pharma profits and counter their stated agenda to "seriously impair brain function" and that is why they don't tell the truth.


>>I could post a long list of links to justify my position on vaccinations and fluoride(among other natural occurring deficiencies in many areas, like iodine in North Vietnam), but, I would run out of time and space.


Ray, that's a cop out.

BTW, I supplement with iodine in the US! I'm with you on the importance of vitamins and minerals. I'm a big fan of the organic paleo Zone Diet and this is one heckuva an anecdote for it...

Minding Your Mitochondria
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLjgBLwH3Wc

BTW, don't ever expect Big Pharma to inform their students of Dr. Wahls' dietary success or to fund any research into it.

They won't. Dr. Wahls is minimizing Big Pharma profits.

>>Quote: And no, I'm not perfect. Not even close. [color=indigo](neither am I, perfection is what I strife for though).
<<

That's all we can do.

>>But I do try and improve and help others improve. [color=indigo](As long as what you help others with is impartial, that is an excellent trait).<<

I do my best to base my conclusion on a wide array of data and logic.

I'm not arguing a position, I'm asking, pleading even, for data that legitimately counters my current belief system because I want to test my current paradigm against the best data and logic possible.

Note that when I made recommendations, I posted data and logic out of respect for my readers to make up their own mind based on their own research.

I didn't simply make a declarative claim.

I also encourage others to use their mind to gather data and logic and challenge everything to prove all things... and declarative statements are not equivalent to truth.

>>As opposed to, you know, gloating over the (however minor) failings of others. (I was not gloating, just injecting a touch of humour. There is also only one T in 'scarlet'). Whistle <<

Yep, got that one wrong, too. ;-)

I think I need to spend more time on the "hard" spelling bee and less on the "expert" spelling bee (but I get more points with "expert!". ;-) Yes, I typed it with two "t"s previously in this post, too - not a typo.

fauna and scarlet - kind of like missing those words in a spelling bee... I'll remember them now.

Based on our discussion here, I need to investigate the role of antibiotics in Scarlet (one t!) Fever. However, antibiotics don't act as a preventative, they act as a treatment. Anyway, more research required as to why Scarlet Fever essentially went away without vaccination and if that same mechanism can apply to other vaccine based diseases.

I look at the charts posted in my first post (did you look at those mortality charts) and vaccines essentially appear to have zero impact - even negative impact in some cases. The data doesn't appear to match the propaganda, at least from a mortality standpoint.

The best way to control the opposition is to finance it. Birds of prey have two wings; the left wing & right wing.
Ray41
Posted: Friday, February 21, 2014 1:09:37 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/9/2010
Posts: 1,943
Neurons: 45,980
Location: Orange, New South Wales, Australia
Quote: My son tells me his brain races uncontrollably but, fortunately, high levels of super refined EPA and DHA and helped him keep it under reasonable control.
Also; I have a 4 year old nephew that can't talk and a good friend with a 3 year old that can't talk.


First I would like to express my sympathy if your son and nephews are suffering from any reaction to any vaccination that they may have received.
Nothing in this world is perfect and there are always some % of failure as the old saying 'one size does not fit all' is so true.
It does tell me why you are so anti-vaccination though.


Quote: Making lots of money doesn't necessarily equate to success in my book. In our fraudulent debt based monetary system, all it means is that your son has an exceptional ability to saturate others with debt.

No, it isn't his fault and he probably doesn't even understand how the system works due to his schooling (indoctrination + regurgitation is schooling, not education!).

BTW, that fraudulent debt that your son slings will destroy America. I'm not attacking your son, we all sling fraudulent debt, including myself. The more I save in preparation of the forthcoming financial debt Ponzi implosion... the more other people are indebted, by definition. It is such an evil system that circumscribes the human spirit.

The Debt Money Tyrants are destroying the small farm - your heritage. They regulate small farms to death and then exempt their Big Agra mega-corporations.

This is the end of my discussion with you Trivium_Discipulus as you seem hell bent on pursuing your agenda with no regard for other peoples values or feelings.
You insult both myself and my son in the way you have twisted and manipulated my comment to suit your own agenda
I did not write of my sons accomplishments to have you belittle him, or myself who, as his father and mentor instilled in him all the compassion and empathy that he has for others. What he achieved regarding his education is nought to do with the actual 'schooling'(in your words, indoctrination and regurgitation?)but, the motivation and from his family and his own intelligence. His salary is a reflection of 'his personal dedication' to what he does, and it involves constant study to keep pace with current development in his chosen field. He earns every cent that he receives(after tax takes a substantial chunk). Also, he is not in America so your comment, "BTW, that fraudulent debt that your son slings will destroy America" is irrelevant.
The reason that I do not post link after link is not a 'cop out', it is that I do not have the time. Even at my age, with an equal contribution from my wife, we care, full time, for disadvantaged children. One 16 year old, full time, who has Asperger's, and, 3 others all under the age of 4 years. That is all you need to know.
In reply to this comment; Where is the data and the logic?
What I have posted is, in the majority, based on logic, experience and, personal observations and involvement (also record keeping in over 50 years of farm diaries). Can't get more accurate results than that.


Quote:

Also, it seems reasonable that what you observed regarding animals would also hold true for humans, but that's not necessarily true. Maybe, maybe not. WHERE'S THE DATA AND LOGIC THAT PROVES IT? If true, it should be trivial to prove, right? The fact you haven't been able 1. understand my request and/or 2. actually answer my request should be big red flags that something might not be right.

It is not just what I have observed regarding 'just' animals! Many vaccines used to protect livestock are the same that protect humans. No red flag needed. I lost a very good friend in 1967 when, as a veterinarian in Africa he contracted Rabies. He was told that he did not need the vaccination for where he was going. The identical vaccine is used on both humans and animals. After being air lifted to England he languished for 6 weeks before passing away.
On that note I will leave you to pursue your quest, where ever that may take you.


While I live I grow.
Trivium_Discipulus
Posted: Friday, February 21, 2014 3:24:40 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 12/20/2013
Posts: 819
Neurons: 350,106
Location: San Diego, California, United States
Hi Ray41,

My main point here isn’t to encourage people to blindly believe me… blindly believing people is how we’ve found ourselves in our current predicament.

That’s why I provided links to source data in my original post, not simply declarative statements. A quick critical reading of history shows, beyond all doubt, that the establishment elites of a country are always the biggest liars and should trusted. Who was the biggest liar in 1940s Germany? The German establishment. Lenin’s Russia? The Russian establishment. Stalin’s Russia? The Russian establishment. Mao’s China? The Chinese establishment? The Euopean Union? The European Union establishment (they are bankrupt and issuing more debt can’t fix that problem and only liars would claim it will – and NOTHING impacts the average European more than being forced into bankruptcy through total fraud, but that’s another subject). Feudal Europe for thousands of years? The feudal lord establishment.

Are you seeing a trend? -lol-

The American establishment assiduously lie better than all those historical and current examples – simply because the common person NEVER CHECKS THE SOURCE DATA, THEY ASSUME THEY AREN’T BEING LIED TO. Hitler call this method of deception The Big Lie and gushed about how effective it was in practice (his claim was spot on – even today).

The Jesuits teach their 3rd graders to never trust anyone’s claim, even a college professor, rather, they need to take the initiative and go to the source documents themselves!

John Taylor Gatto Jesuit School
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xgYQM5S7as&t=23m39s

In 3rd grade!

A 3rd grade Jesuit student who paid attention and learned the lesson wouldn’t simply take whatever a physician told them to take, they’d want to know why and how they can validate the efficacy of the recommendation! That’s all I’m asking… but I can’t get straight answers but I have been lied to before when discussing these issues – by my own father no less! He wasn’t trained to pursue truth, he was trained to defend and agenda without ever validating the agenda beyond “this is what some people at a Big Pharma financed institution taught me.” Unbeknownst to him, THE OWNERS of Big Pharma rejected much of the information they were teaching him and, even more Machiavellian, teaching him that their treatment of choice was quackery!!!

This is real! You can validate it all! But you have to put in the effort and, even before that, you have to know you need to validate it in order to reasonably believe something is true.

Vaccine issues are complex because each one needs to be analyzed on a cost / benefit basis for the individual (NOT Big Pharma profits, admitted Rockefeller Foundation covert sterilization agendas and admitted plans to seriously impair brain function of large populations).

I believe that true freedom can only exist when people are fully informed… and that is not the case right now. I know that for a fact. I don’t have the resources, and Big Pharma occults the required resources from the general public, to scientifically prove the cost / benefit basis for a given individual.

Having said that, I’m wary of people who reject the “medicine” they want to give to me, claim they want to use the “medicine” they want to give to me to sterilize me and write books about the benefits of seriously impairing brain function in large populations...

Not to mention they literally have a license to kill you… Bayer made an informed business to knowingly infect people with HIV and hepatitis C. In other words, they murdered people. Big Pharma is able to commit murder and walk away free as a bird.

Bayer Exposed ( HIV Contaminated Vaccine )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg-52mHIjhs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contaminated_haemophilia_blood_products

Note that the politicians were imprisoned, but not the corporate executives. Now you know the pecking order.

As an aside, this was true when JP Morgan bribed Jefferson County officials to turn their $100 million contract into a $1 billion contract – the county officials went to jail, but nobody at JP Morgan was charged. Oh, and JP Morgan was able to keep their stolen loot, too.

If one does intense research into vaccination (reading Big Pharma propaganda is fine, but doing so exclusively does not count as “intense research” and is a fool’s errand. I value contrary opinions much more than complementing opinions because contrary opinions give me an opportunity to expand my grammar and logic and update my perception closer to that which exists and is real).

Water fluoridation appears to be a pretty simple issue, though, which is why medical professionals come up empty when asked to support their claim with actual scientific evidence.

But, you have to rely on empirical evidence and NOT PROPAGANDA.

“The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ...We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society. ...In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons...who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind.”
~ Edward L. Bernays, Propaganda

Btw, Bernays played an integral role in convincing women that smoking wasn’t a dirty habit and was actually and expression of their “freedom” to “be independent of men.” He also played a critical role in promoting fluoride in the water as well. He’s the guy that devised the plan to sell propaganda via people wearing lab coats and looking like doctors.

CDC admits there is no evidence that fluoridated water benefits infants (remember that as you see fluoridated water with an infant on it!)
http://dougcragoe.webs.com/apps/documents/

While considering your son’s fluoridation anecdote (no fluoride in the water, given fluoride pills) and his relative success against his peers, it dawned on me that this may well be an anecdote that supports the rest of the evidence… After all, you controlled the fluoride dose and it was much less than children who had to drink and bathe in it. My guess is your son probably ate food grown from non-fluoridated water and not sprayed with fluoride based pesticide.

In short, I bet your son’s fluoride exposure was a fraction of a “city kid” in a fluoridated community.

Genetics also play a role, which is a major reason why anecdotal evidence isn’t considered to be very good evidence.

Let’s go with the available research…

Harvard Study Correlates Fluoridated Water to a 7 point IQ drop.

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/features/fluoride-childrens-health-grandjean-choi/

“The average loss in IQ was reported as a standardized weighted mean difference of 0.45, which would be approximately equivalent to seven IQ points for commonly used IQ scores with a standard deviation of 15.* Some studies suggested that even slightly increased fluoride exposure could be toxic to the brain. Thus, children in high-fluoride areas had significantly lower IQ scores than those who lived in low-fluoride areas. The children studied were up to 14 years of age, but the investigators speculate that any toxic effect on brain development may have happened earlier, and that the brain may not be fully capable of compensating for the toxicity.”

Note how the article had to add in a section explaining that the “standardized weighted mean difference of 0.45” was equivalent to a seven IQ point reduction. This was a direct response to a lie put out by a Harvard School of Dental Medicine doctor that claimed… "A half-point difference in IQ is meaningless. That's like saying, we measured all the people in New York and Chicago, and in New York they were a half-millimeter taller."

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/stories/2012/september/13/portland-fluoride-debate.aspx

Good luck finding a retraction. Big Industry finances these schools and they reward people who keep what should be billion dollar cost centers raking in billions in profits. Note who lies – the establishment with complete impunity – and they aren’t even required to correct their lie that gets reported in news article after news article as though it was accurate. The establishment preys upon the ignorance of the masses. Why are lies required if the truth is so good?

This is how the criminal establishment works. You don’t see it if you don’t look for it, but if you look for it the lies never seem to end!

This is Harvard and, believe me, those scientists are not winning any funding from Big Industry by revealing these results. These results threaten billion dollar profit centers and creating billion dollar cost centers. People have had their careers ruined for much less than this. 99.999% + less.

You can view the actual data here:

Developmental Fluoride Neurotoxicity: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis
http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/ehp.1104912.pdf

Table 4. Fluoride studies: IQ and Behavioral Effects
http://www.fluoridealert.org/wp-content/pesticides/epa-sf/table.4.iq.behav.pdf

The Intelligence Quotient (IQ) was measured in 118 children,
aged 10-12 years, who were life-long residents in two villages of
similar population size and social, educational and economic
background but differing in the level of fluoride in drinking water.
High-fluoride area (drinking water fluoride 3.15 ± 0.61 mg/L
[ppm]) (mean ± S.D.)
Low-fluoride area (drinking water fluoride 0.37 ± 0.04 mg/L)
The IQ of the 60 children in the high-fluoride area was
significantly lower, mean 92.27 ± 20.45, than that of the 58
children in the low-fluoride area, mean 103.05 ± 13.86. More
children in the high-fluoride area, 21.6%, were in the retardation
(<70) or borderline (70-79) categories of IQ than children in the
low fluoride area, 3.4%. An inverse relationship was also
present between IQ and the urinary fluoride level. Exposure of
children to high levels of fluoride may therefore carry the risk of
impaired development of intelligence.

Did you catch it? A nearly 600% increase in mental retardation correlated to high fluoride areas. LOOK AT THE SOURCE DATA YOURSELF! WHERE IS THE SCIENTIFIC RESPONSE? We were lied to by a Harvard dental doctor… WHERE IS THE TRUTH?

And it isn’t just about fluoride, either. There are all kinds of toxins included under the umbrella name “fluoride.”

It isn’t just about the fluoride variant, either… there are other goodies…
http://www.waterloowatch.com/hydrofluorosilicic%20acid.html

This is the type of research that the EPA scientists considered when they call for a moratorium on water fluoridation and sued to have fluoride free water delivered to their Washington, DC EPA headquarters.

WHY EPA HEADQUARTERS UNION OF SCIENTISTS OPPOSES FLUORIDATION
http://www.nteu280.org/Issues/Fluoride/NTEU280-Fluoride.htm

“The following documents why our union, formerly National Federation of Federal Employees Local 2050 and since April 1998 Chapter 280 of the National Treasury Employees Union, took the stand it did opposing fluoridation of drinking water supplies. Our union is comprised of and represents the approximately 1500 scientists, lawyers, engineers and other professional employees at EPA Headquarters here in Washington, D.C.

The union first became interested in this issue rather by accident. Like most Americans, including many physicians and dentists, most of our members had thought that fluoride's only effects were beneficial - reductions in tooth decay, etc. We too believed assurances of safety and effectiveness of water fluoridation.

Then, as EPA was engaged in revising its drinking water standard for fluoride in 1985, an employee came to the union with a complaint: he said he was being forced to write into the regulation a statement to the effect that EPA thought it was alright for children to have "funky" teeth. It was OK, EPA said, because it considered that condition to be only a cosmetic effect, not an adverse health effect. The reason for this EPA position was that it was under political pressure to set its health-based standard for fluoride at 4 mg/liter (4 ppm). At that level, EPA knew that a significant number of children develop moderate to severe dental fluorosis, but since it had deemed the effect as only cosmetic, EPA didn't have to set its health-based standard at a lower level to prevent it.

We tried to settle this ethics issue quietly, within the family, but EPA was unable or unwilling to resist external political pressure, and we took the fight public with a union amicus curiae brief in a lawsuit filed against EPA by a public interest group. The union has published on this initial involvement period in detail.\1

Since then our opposition to drinking water fluoridation has grown, based on the scientific literature documenting the increasingly out-of-control exposures to fluoride, the lack of benefit to dental health from ingestion of fluoride and the hazards to human health from such ingestion. These hazards include acute toxic hazard, such as to people with impaired kidney function, as well as chronic toxic hazards of gene mutations, cancer, reproductive effects, neurotoxicity, bone pathology and dental fluorosis. First, a review of recent neurotoxicity research results.”

Read the rest of the document and note that it has what pro-fluoridation propagandists have never produced in all my research… actual cites to data and logic.

Developing intellectual self-defense (don’t believe anything important unless you source the data and logic that support the conclusion yourself) is critical fighting the intra-specific klepto-parasites with clear genocidal tendencies from absolutely eviscerating all that the common person values.


The best way to control the opposition is to finance it. Birds of prey have two wings; the left wing & right wing.
Trivium_Discipulus
Posted: Friday, February 21, 2014 8:12:01 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 12/20/2013
Posts: 819
Neurons: 350,106
Location: San Diego, California, United States
Ray41 wrote:
This is the end of my discussion with you Trivium_Discipulus as you seem hell bent on pursuing your agenda with no regard for other peoples values or feelings.


Hi Ray41,

I apologize for my subpar communication that ended up in offense received when none was intended.

I was not intending, in any way, to attack your son or you.

I was, however, attacking the wicked fraudulent debt based monetary system – and with all the might and I have.

Henry Ford explains why….

“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning… The one aim of these financiers is world control by the creation of inextinguishable debt.”
~Henry Ford

The problem, as Ford pointed out, is that people don’t understand the [fraudulent debt based] monetary system.

The “slinging debt” comment was not meant as a personal attack, rather, it was meant 1. highlight truth (it is an empiric truth) and, by implication, 2. condemn a fraudulent system that makes “slinging debt” the prerequisite for compensation. People are paid to produce “profits,” profits are “monetary,” and money **is** debt by definition since it is loaned into existence at interest. It was not meant to criticize your son, who likely doesn’t understand this mechanism (if you he did, he would’ve explained it to you already).

We all earn remuneration by “slinging debt” – including me! After all money (including paycheck money) **is** debt by definition!

If I was attacking your son, I’m only attacking myself, too!

I’m sure your son would resist this wicked debt money system if he understood its ultimate Machiavellian intent (to enslave common people and install a feudal system… and that’s my opinion, IT IS THEIR STATED GOAL!

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements, arrived at in frequent private meetings and conferences. The apex of the system was the Bank for International Settlements in Basle, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the worlds' central banks which were themselves private corporations. The growth of financial capitalism made possible a centralization of world economic control and use of this power for the direct benefit of financiers and the indirect injury of all other economic groups." ~Professor Carroll Quigley of Georgetown University , Tragedy and Hope: A History of The World in Our Time (Macmillan Company, 1966,)

And he was an insider who had access to records to back up his claim – as well being Bill Clinton’s mentor through school…

"I know of this network because I have studied it for twenty years and was permitted for two years in the early 1960s to examine its papers and secret records. I have no aversion to it or to most of its aims and have, for much of my life, been close to it and to many of its instruments. I have objected, both in the past and recently, to a few of its policies ... but in general my chief difference of opinion is that it wishes to remain unknown, and I believe its role in history is significant enough to be known."
~Dr. Carroll Quigley, Tragedy and Hope

"As a teenager, I heard John Kennedy's summons to citizenship. And then, as a student, I heard that call clarified by a professor I had named Carroll Quigley.”
~President Clinton, in his acceptance speech for the Democratic Party's nomination for president, 16 July 1992

The international banking cartel runs almost every currency… and almost every country is being fraudulently forced into bankruptcy… so it doesn’t matter where your son works, but that wasn’t the point anyway. The point was to highlight a fraudulent monetary system, not criticize a person.

One way to view modern day wars is quite simple: Nations financed by an international banking cartel are attacking nations that don’t have a debt based monetary central bank in order to set up a debt based monetary central bank once conquered.

Your son’s take home pay is someone else’s debt that can’t be extinguished, only traded to some other debt serf. The only way to pay off debt is to have no money at all (except for physical coins which aren’t debt based, but do account for only a trivial amount of the money supply).

"If all the bank loans were paid, no one could have a bank deposit, and there would not be a dollar of coin or currency in circulation. This is a staggering thought. We are completely dependent on the commercial Banks. Someone has to borrow every dollar we have in circulation, cash or credit. If the Banks create ample synthetic money we are prosperous; if not, we starve. We are absolutely without a permanent money system. When one gets a complete grasp of the picture, the tragic absurdity of our hopeless position is almost incredible, but there it is. It is the most important subject intelligent persons can investigate and reflect upon. It is so important that our present civilization may collapse unless it becomes widely understood and the defects remedied very soon."
by: Robert Hemphill, Credit Manager of Federal Reserve Bank, Atlanta, Ga.
Source: In the foreword to a book by Irving Fisher, entitled 100% Money (1935)

I’m absolutely not knocking your son or you - **my** take home pay is no different! We are all forced to participate in this “debt slinging” fraud that has only one outcome – our country will be taken into receivership for the exact reason outlined by Henry Ford – inextinguishable debt.

The oligarchs are already doing this in Greece and Cyprus as beta tests for their crown jewels of the major countries in Europe and the United States

The $9 trillion sale
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21593453-governments-should-launch-new-wave-privatisations-time-centred-property-9

In a nutshell, these criminals create money from absolutely nothing, lend it to societies (government, corporate and personal) at interest (everyone is a balance sheet and money and debts **must** balance – Accounting 101), accumulate the money for themselves through interest aggregation and corruption, leave the debt to bankrupt society, and then claim the tangible assets of those societies as their own!

Here are some resources to better understand the general grammar and logic associated with our fraudulent monetary system.

Poverty is a feature of our system and not a bug. It was engineered into the system.

Poverty: Debt is not a Choice
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juQc0rLdB-E

Renaissance 2.0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96c2wXcNA7A

The Secret of Oz
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swkq2E8mswI

Money As Debt II: promises unleashed (FULL MOVIE)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsmbWBpnCNk

This is part of grammar and logic accumulation. It is a prerequisite to knowledge.

Declarative statements or establishment shunning do not define or negate truth.

Again, sorry for any offense received because no offense was intended.

I have zero ill will headed in your direction at all.

In fact, I think you will find the following links very valuable for securing any monetary wealth you and yours has America is forced into receivership by the criminal international banking cartel that is bankrupting the world through fraud - and bombing those they can't directly bankrupt.

How to Build a Lifeboat
http://www.theautomaticearth.com/how-to-build-a-lifeboat/

40 Ways to Lose Your Future
http://www.theautomaticearth.com/40-ways-to-lose-your-future/

Nicole Foss on Finance and Bubbles
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYXA9XHFUCU

I want you and yours to keep what you've worked for, not be robbed in any of a myriad ways by a criminal international banking cartel.

I shop local. I buy from local farms. I buy from a farmers' market. I pay cash. I avoid Big anything. I support my community and I work to encourage others to do as well.

"We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately."
~Benjamin Franklin

Good luck - but check those premises, seek out that grammar and logic, question authority and keep that intellectual self-defense razor sharp.

The best way to control the opposition is to finance it. Birds of prey have two wings; the left wing & right wing.
Henry o neil
Posted: Tuesday, March 04, 2014 1:28:13 AM

Rank: Newbie

Joined: 2/18/2014
Posts: 3
Neurons: 18
Sometimes it happens because you have lack of interest in the subject you want to remember.However there are many ways to improve your memory.Have you ever tried any memory booster?You can try some.I can point out a similar product called cebria which is working well in these cases,specially in short term memory loss.Just google it and you can know more about it.
Thanks
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Tuesday, March 04, 2014 11:49:26 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 27,286
Neurons: 151,326
Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom

I would say the best way to help one's mind is to:
1. Lay off the self-medication
2. Eat + sleep well
3. If there is actually some physical problem, see a doctor (not one addicted to prescribing Ritalin and Valium)


Wyrd bið ful aræd - bull!
aamir ah
Posted: Friday, April 11, 2014 2:08:49 PM

Rank: Newbie

Joined: 4/6/2014
Posts: 11
Neurons: 1,210
Location: Srīnagar, Kashmir, India
I think need a break
Jyrkkä Jätkä
Posted: Friday, April 11, 2014 5:22:49 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/2009
Posts: 40,006
Neurons: 307,603
Location: Helsinki, Southern Finland Province, Finland
I think we need the spam button.


In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
Articulate Dreamer
Posted: Saturday, April 12, 2014 2:07:35 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/16/2009
Posts: 11,856
Neurons: 81,042
Location: Bangalore, Karnataka, India
Jyrkkä Jätkä wrote:
I think we need the spam button.

Applause JJ

People who want to take tangential discussions and hijack the main thread should be warned and then banned if they persist.

"...hold infinity in the palm of your hand and eternity in an hour"
sarahjones83
Posted: Thursday, July 03, 2014 7:36:49 AM
Rank: Newbie

Joined: 7/3/2014
Posts: 15
Neurons: 71
The most effective is the training of memory. Need to train the memory.
Ie it is necessary to recall some of the information.

For example, after reading the article, you need 10 minutes to try to remember all the details of the article.

Angel
Bandicoot
Posted: Sunday, September 07, 2014 1:52:18 PM
Rank: Newbie

Joined: 9/7/2014
Posts: 1
Neurons: 3
Everyone has their own method of improving their memory and learning. An effective way for one person won't necessarily be the best way for another. Personally I most improved my memory when I studied through the night with no distractions in 40 minute periods, followed by 20 minute rests. I boosted my learning capability by supplementing my diet with cognitive supplements. I highly recommend students to keep their nutrition in check. Just like a bodybuilder takes protein, an academic student needs the right nutrients to keep the mind at peak performance. I personally used a product called FOCUSADE Mind & Memory which me and my friends found to be the most effective supplement out there, although there are some others available too. Combined with a slow sip of energy drink throughout the night, and that kept me going for HOURS!!
pedro
Posted: Tuesday, September 09, 2014 6:23:51 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 5/21/2009
Posts: 12,945
Neurons: 58,999
bet that drove them wild

All good ideas arrive by chance- Max Ernst
Ni un voto al PRIAN PVEM
Posted: Wednesday, September 10, 2014 9:44:54 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 12/16/2013
Posts: 460
Neurons: 54,221
Location: Mexico City, The Federal District, Mexico
Your doctor have to rule out major depression and hypothyroidism. If you are over 50 it could be dementia. Today there are cholinesterase inhibitors and NMDA inhibitors that can help to delay memory impairment
Users browsing this topic
Guest


Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Main Forum RSS : RSS
Forum Terms and Guidelines. Copyright © 2008-2017 Farlex, Inc. All rights reserved.