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Jesus Christ Son of God? Options
Daveski
Posted: Tuesday, November 27, 2012 3:09:08 PM

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dusty wrote:

I am sure you are much more aware than I am, but just in case other readers come across posts like this one or ol' Daveski's "Is the truth really out there" I feel I should warn them how it's *almost* as if Dave enjoys getting others all hot and bothered.


I would like to think that I was provoking a meaningful debate to be honest. Hewitt on the other hand certainly 'got off' on creating trouble though. He was the one that changed the entire direction of the 'truth' thread, arrogantly & ignorantly stating that he would 'simplify' it for me. I doubt that he actually read or understood what I was writing to begin with anyway. I honestly doubt he read or understood anything much of anything anyhow. I tend to agree with Will that he is very probably genuinely mentally ill. He certainly didn't appear to be firing on all of his thrusters & is now only really conspicuous by his absence. You shouldn't have let him sidetrack you dusty. It really isn't surprising that he has been banned so many times.

dusty wrote:
So there is really no point getting upset at his attitude or comments when he makes assertions just for the philosophical sake of argument. A lot like a devil's advocate, but with mal-intent.


There is no bad intent in my reply above, I was only advocating a caveat on the starting of yet another thread that will no doubt end in total chaos. There really is no point in discussing the topic of evolution on Internet bulletin boards any more. Notwithstanding that this thread has nothing to do with natural selectivity, evolution, Darwin, Wallace or Uncle Tom Cobley & all.

dusty wrote:
It took me quite a while to realize that a person who writes so well and has access to the finest communication robots the touring test for programmers with tourettes tour de IT France can produce, must himself be intelligent enough to know when something is science based sound theory in test, and some journalist who mixes creative writing into his work to get back at all the messed up agendas pushed by the super packs of the right wing (an anger I can certainly understand)


Science journalism is very important for those of us who are not professional scientists. I am not that well informed about the political right-wing in the United States, most of my knowledge of American politics is derived from reading the Doonesbury cartoon.

dusty wrote:
But just as easy as it is for him to recognize real science and what is not, it is equally easy to identify the times when the ancestor of Paul writes with an agenda.


I'm pretty sure I can recognise real science from pseudo-science. I'm not so sure about cold fusion for instance. LOL

dusty wrote:
Is it alright if I call you Paul from now on Dave?


If it makes you feel better.

docendo discimus
Daveski
Posted: Tuesday, November 27, 2012 4:17:29 PM

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Phog wrote:


"Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name" (John 20:30-31 ESV).


Does anyone know, or can transliterate the phrase 'the Son of God' from Hebrew? Plus, as the earliest gospels were written in the 2nd century, probably in Aramaic, has the translation into Greek or other languages altered this phrase?

docendo discimus
dusty
Posted: Tuesday, November 27, 2012 9:41:15 PM

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Thanks for being such a good sport after all my rude words and false impressions/accusations Dave.

To be concerned of the fate of the world is not bad, but bearing false witness is to not be
Daveski
Posted: Wednesday, November 28, 2012 7:59:38 AM

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dusty wrote:
Thanks for being such a good sport after all my rude words and false impressions/accusations Dave.


It's OK dusty, don't worry about it mate.

docendo discimus
leonAzul
Posted: Wednesday, November 28, 2012 1:11:43 PM

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Daveski wrote:
Phog wrote:


"Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name" (John 20:30-31 ESV).


Does anyone know, or can transliterate the phrase 'the Son of God' from Hebrew? Plus, as the earliest gospels were written in the 2nd century, probably in Aramaic, has the translation into Greek or other languages altered this phrase?


There is little evidence that what we call the New Testament was written in anything but Greek. There is some evidence that the writers of the Gospels may have drawn from sources written in Aramaic, but at the time they were first compiled, the dominant literate language was still Greek, much as Latin came to be during the so-called Middle Ages.



"Make it go away, Mrs Whatsit," he whispered. "Make it go away. It's evil."
Daveski
Posted: Wednesday, November 28, 2012 1:24:37 PM

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leonAzul wrote:
Daveski wrote:
Phog wrote:


"Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name" (John 20:30-31 ESV).


Does anyone know, or can transliterate the phrase 'the Son of God' from Hebrew? Plus, as the earliest gospels were written in the 2nd century, probably in Aramaic, has the translation into Greek or other languages altered this phrase?


There is little evidence that what we call the New Testament was written in anything but Greek. There is some evidence that the writers of the Gospels may have drawn from sources written in Aramaic, but at the time they were first compiled, the dominant literate language was still Greek, much as Latin came to be during the so-called Middle Ages.



How about the 'Gnostic Gospels', weren't they written in Aramaic?

docendo discimus
Jyrkkä Jätkä
Posted: Wednesday, November 28, 2012 1:38:08 PM

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What WAS the language of Jesus and his disciples?


In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
leonAzul
Posted: Wednesday, November 28, 2012 1:40:55 PM

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Location: Miami, Florida, United States
Daveski wrote:
leonAzul wrote:
Daveski wrote:
Phog wrote:


"Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name" (John 20:30-31 ESV).


Does anyone know, or can transliterate the phrase 'the Son of God' from Hebrew? Plus, as the earliest gospels were written in the 2nd century, probably in Aramaic, has the translation into Greek or other languages altered this phrase?


There is little evidence that what we call the New Testament was written in anything but Greek. There is some evidence that the writers of the Gospels may have drawn from sources written in Aramaic, but at the time they were first compiled, the dominant literate language was still Greek, much as Latin came to be during the so-called Middle Ages.



How about the 'Gnostic Gospels', weren't they written in Aramaic?


The most numerous of the lot from Dag Hamadi are written in Coptic and are apparently translations from Greek.


"Make it go away, Mrs Whatsit," he whispered. "Make it go away. It's evil."
leonAzul
Posted: Wednesday, November 28, 2012 1:46:59 PM

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Jyrkkä Jätkä wrote:
What WAS the language of Jesus and his disciples?


The everyday language would have been an Aramaic dialect. At the time of Jesus, Hebrew had already become set aside as an ecclesiastical language. This is part of the drama that was intended with the story of a carpenter's son who could lecture authoritatively on Hebrew scripture, since it would be assumed that his only contact with it would be during temple services.



"Make it go away, Mrs Whatsit," he whispered. "Make it go away. It's evil."
Daveski
Posted: Wednesday, November 28, 2012 2:50:32 PM

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leonAzul wrote:

Hebrew had already become set aside as an ecclesiastical language.


Surely that was Rabbinical Hebrew which developed later? Written Hebrew has its origins in an acrophonic form of Proto-Canaanite that they inherited from the Phoenicians around the 12th - 11th centuries BC. It was around the 9th century BC that it started to become identifiably 'Hebrew'. Latin, Greek, Cyrillic & Arabic scripts all have their ultimate origins in that original Proto-Canaanite script. Plus I'm sure at the time Aramaic Hebrew was both spoken & written.

docendo discimus
leonAzul
Posted: Wednesday, November 28, 2012 4:16:52 PM

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Daveski wrote:
leonAzul wrote:

Hebrew had already become set aside as an ecclesiastical language.


Surely that was Rabbinical Hebrew which developed later? Written Hebrew has its origins in an acrophonic form of Proto-Canaanite that they inherited from the Phoenicians around the 12th - 11th centuries BC. It was around the 9th century BC that it started to become identifiably 'Hebrew'. Latin, Greek, Cyrillic & Arabic scripts all have their ultimate origins in that original Proto-Canaanite script. Plus I'm sure at the time Aramaic Hebrew was both spoken & written.


All true, yet none of which speaks to the role that Hebrew played in the society that Jesus lived in.

Certainly someone was speaking Hebrew and someone was writing in Aramaic—many of the Qumran scrolls are written in Aramaic, and one of these is claimed to be a prototype for the Gospel of Mark—but literacy was uncommon in the general population.

Those who were literate, like Paul of Tarsus or Flavius Josephus, wrote anything of importance to themselves in Greek.



"Make it go away, Mrs Whatsit," he whispered. "Make it go away. It's evil."
Jyrkkä Jätkä
Posted: Wednesday, November 28, 2012 4:22:02 PM

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Aww,
Chaldean, then.


In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
dusty
Posted: Wednesday, November 28, 2012 4:55:01 PM

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Joined: 4/13/2012
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this was meant to before JJ's reply,

Mooooom,

MOM!

He's doing it again!

To be concerned of the fate of the world is not bad, but bearing false witness is to not be
Daveski
Posted: Wednesday, November 28, 2012 6:12:40 PM

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Joined: 10/17/2012
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Location: Caer Sidi
leonAzul wrote:


All true, yet none of which speaks to the role that Hebrew played in the society that Jesus lived in.


Well, it was a long time ago. I have difficulty enough remembering the Cynon Valley in the '90s.

leonAzul wrote:
Certainly someone was speaking Hebrew and someone was writing in Aramaic—many of the Qumran scrolls are written in Aramaic, and one of these is claimed to be a prototype for the Gospel of Mark—but literacy was uncommon in the general population.


I knew a lot of the Qumran stuff was written in Aramaic.

leonAzul wrote:
Those who were literate, like Paul of Tarsus or Flavius Josephus, wrote anything of importance to themselves in Greek.


It's all Greek to me.

docendo discimus
Daveski
Posted: Wednesday, November 28, 2012 6:15:10 PM

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dusty wrote:
this was meant to before JJ's reply,

Mooooom,

MOM!

He's doing it again!


Quick dusty ... listen to some chillax music from The Future Sound of London.

docendo discimus
Jeech
Posted: Tuesday, December 4, 2012 1:29:44 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

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Location: Karachi West, Sindh, Pakistan
Maryam, the mother, is considered equavalant to a prophet. So, she becomes the only female "prophetic fiqure" in Islamic world. BTW, such a manly woman that could concive a baby..... concieved a baby, that's all!!

*It's wonderful to know that all languages are Greek if not understood.*
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