The Free Dictionary  
mailing list For webmasters
Welcome Guest Forum Search | Active Topics | Members

Same song, verse ad nauseum - Islam is NOT a violent religion Options
percivalpecksniff
Posted: Saturday, September 15, 2012 4:49:02 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/1/2011
Posts: 1,523
Neurons: 3,404
Location: United Kingdom
You said Geeman: If this violence is to be attributed to Islam, why didn't muslims all over the world participate?
Religion is merely a pretext for what is a socio-political conflict. Any number of events could have been used to justify the attacks.

Islam like pseudo Christianity varies from place to place as do religious leaders, politicians and their aims. Yes, you are right, it not just a matter of religion, but a mix of religious/ political and socio/economic elements. But it is a fact that in many lands the Muslim religion is a part of the state and has a great influence which could be used for good.

A conflict may well be driven beneath the surface by matters other than religion, but one cannot escape the fact that the participants have religious ‘values’ that allow, and indeed in many cases incite, them to war and violence. They carry out their acts in the name of god. God defines who they are and their course of action. It is Allah’s will.

Yes by their extreme views they lend themselves to incitement to violence and hatred by religious leaders and politicians who have other motives, but it is not possible to divorce their beliefs from their actions.

Religion surely plays a major part, but yes, it is not the whole picture.

As Joseph Caleb Colton observed: 'Men will wrangle for religion, unite for it, fight for it, die for it but hardly ever live for it.'


It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. Aristotle
Tovarish
Posted: Saturday, September 15, 2012 6:11:50 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/2/2009
Posts: 11,109
Neurons: 39,933
Location: Booligal, New South Wales, Australia
Blooper, why is that little boy crying?
percivalpecksniff
Posted: Saturday, September 15, 2012 6:26:33 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/1/2011
Posts: 1,523
Neurons: 3,404
Location: United Kingdom
I think it is = Tak kerja tak makan 'If you do not work you do not eat,' but blooper will know.

It seems to me that Blooper is saying she has enough to deal with just to live, without getting involved with all the religious friction


It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. Aristotle
Tovarish
Posted: Saturday, September 15, 2012 6:40:02 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/2/2009
Posts: 11,109
Neurons: 39,933
Location: Booligal, New South Wales, Australia
Yes, I thought the same, to be frightened to speak out is something I find hard to comprehend.

Percey, I try really hard not to speak about thinks I do not have a full understanding of.

The rioters today were abusing the freedoms Australia has built up over our short history.

Australians have the right to Peaceful Protest, march in the street, wave your flags,

'what do we want?

when do we want it?

now!!!!'

rattling sabers, and then a cushy bed to go home to.

What protesters do not have is the right protest violently.

We have a 'Middle Eastern Task Force' in the Sydney Police Force, to try and control the crime in South Western Sydney.

Todays antics would have not done the Muslim community any good at all.



Back to the little boy, thats what parents are for.






percivalpecksniff
Posted: Saturday, September 15, 2012 6:45:49 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/1/2011
Posts: 1,523
Neurons: 3,404
Location: United Kingdom
I am reminded Tov of the old saying: Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me.'

I agree with you that insults do not give license to violence.

That picture of the litttle boy is a sad fact of life in poverty stricken lands.


It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. Aristotle
Tovarish
Posted: Saturday, September 15, 2012 7:12:02 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/2/2009
Posts: 11,109
Neurons: 39,933
Location: Booligal, New South Wales, Australia
Thats what I meant by, 'not commenting on things I have little understanding of'.

Not being able to feed your children without them going to work, is out side my understanding.

My personal opinion is, that picture is far more important than a missguided video on a perceived insult.

Being able to feed your children is far more important to me than any religion.

Please allow me a little meandering?

My Dad was a straight up the middle Aussie, with all his politically incorrect opinions intact.

One of his opinions was on religeon, "Watch out for the ones who sit closest to the front".

Meaning the religeously devout on a Sunday, were the worst kind of people during the week.

Sceptosism runs in the family.

Big hugs Blooper, please dont leave the Forum.
Pantomime
Posted: Saturday, September 15, 2012 7:25:38 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 2/25/2011
Posts: 81
Neurons: 236
Location: France

The Nazis never represented the majority of the Germans...




Poor skeleton couldn't attend the ball, he had no body to go with.
percivalpecksniff
Posted: Saturday, September 15, 2012 7:42:49 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/1/2011
Posts: 1,523
Neurons: 3,404
Location: United Kingdom
That is true Pantomine, but they fooled a generation by playing the nationalist cards.

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. Aristotle
jacobusmaximus
Posted: Saturday, September 15, 2012 7:46:38 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/17/2009
Posts: 11,567
Neurons: 437,879
Location: Glasgow, Scotland, United Kingdom
Pantomime wrote:

The Nazis never represented the majority of the Germans...


Where do you get your facts and figures from Panto? I am asking seriously.

I remember, therefore I am.
tootsie
Posted: Saturday, September 15, 2012 11:32:29 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/11/2010
Posts: 6,886
Neurons: 23,730

do people class nazism as a religion then?




I'm not lost for I know where I am. But however, where I am may be lost. Winnie-the-Pooh
Geeman
Posted: Saturday, September 15, 2012 6:28:14 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/2/2009
Posts: 1,788
Neurons: 124,562
Location: Whittier, California, United States
percivalpecksniff wrote:
You said Geeman: If this violence is to be attributed to Islam, why didn't muslims all over the world participate?
Religion is merely a pretext for what is a socio-political conflict. Any number of events could have been used to justify the attacks.

Islam like pseudo Christianity varies from place to place as do religious leaders, politicians and their aims. Yes, you are right, it not just a matter of religion, but a mix of religious/ political and socio/economic elements. But it is a fact that in many lands the Muslim religion is a part of the state and has a great influence which could be used for good.

A conflict may well be driven beneath the surface by matters other than religion, but one cannot escape the fact that the participants have religious ‘values’ that allow, and indeed in many cases incite, them to war and violence. They carry out their acts in the name of god. God defines who they are and their course of action. It is Allah’s will.

Yes by their extreme views they lend themselves to incitement to violence and hatred by religious leaders and politicians who have other motives, but it is not possible to divorce their beliefs from their actions.

Religion surely plays a major part, but yes, it is not the whole picture.

As Joseph Caleb Colton observed: 'Men will wrangle for religion, unite for it, fight for it, die for it but hardly ever live for it.'

I just don't buy it. If you have a look at this argument more carefully, I think you'll see the flaws. This thread, and many of the views expressed here, is that it is the religion that is the primary motivation, rather than the myriad other causes that are being dismissed. That just doesn't add up.

In order to make the argument in the first place all kinds of qualifiers have to be introduced. What does "a major part" mean in the above context when compared to the rest of the influences? There are decades of social influences, centuries of cultural ones, obvious economic ones, etc. All those things have to be ignored in order to make religion anything "major" at all.

But the big question is: Why does it matter? Well, it matters because if you buy into the argument that religion is the cause of this conflict then one completely misses the real causes, and have no chance of dealing with the causes of the problem and, therefore, solving them.
Tovarish
Posted: Sunday, September 16, 2012 1:53:11 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/2/2009
Posts: 11,109
Neurons: 39,933
Location: Booligal, New South Wales, Australia
Yesterday when this mob was in Hyde Park there was a little child who looked to me to be under school age holding a plaquard.

Saying 'Behead those who insult Allah' or similar wording.

What sort of parent would do that?

Obviously the child had not computer generated the writing and it was not in free hand.

We dont behead people in Australia, we dont even hang them anymore.

I hope DOCs was watching, because it looked like 'Child endangerment' to me.

There were CCTV and cameras every where, so much footage the Police will have a lot of facial recognition to

compare.
percivalpecksniff
Posted: Sunday, September 16, 2012 4:50:42 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/1/2011
Posts: 1,523
Neurons: 3,404
Location: United Kingdom
You said Geeman: ‘This thread, and many of the views expressed here, is that it is the religion that is the primary motivation, rather than the myriad other causes that are being dismissed. That just doesn’t add up.’

Yes it is a potpourri of motives that I acknowledge. For some, though, the insult to their religion it is the primary motivation. They of course have, in the main, been manipulated by others, a smaller element, who have different motives.They are the drivers of the car. The religious element are a bit like sheep… easily led and incited to a direction. The movers rely on this fanaticism, which is a common thread in man’s history. Isn’t it what political leaders have always done? They however do not use religion as the catalyst, but nationalism or patriotism... whereas religious leaders use religion and so do terrorists or idealists.

You cannot take out a major ingredient and have the same cake. The fact that many can be incited says something about them surely? You have to have base or unreasoned inclinations at the beginning for them to be kick-started into action.


You further said: But the big question is: Why does it matter? Well, it matters because if you buy into the argument that religion is the cause of this conflict then one completely misses the real causes, and have no chance of dealing with the causes of the problem and, therefore, solving them

So what then is the real cause? Is there a single cause? I doubt it. One could say it is incitement to hatred… revenge … ‘justice’… outrage. One could also bring in the fear of neighbour and what the perception would be if one did not act in protest. There are so many elements. But what is plain is that the men behind the scenes see religion as a major force with which to manipulate people. That must say something about the adherents to the said religions.


It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. Aristotle
FounDit
Posted: Sunday, September 16, 2012 10:49:14 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/19/2011
Posts: 9,543
Neurons: 50,661
Whether there is a single cause or multiple causes, how does killing innocent people eliminate that cause or causes?

The ultimate display of human stupidity. I'm unhappy about a situation, so I'll go kill someone. That will fix it. Right.

We should look to the past to learn from it, not destroy our future because of it — FounDit
percivalpecksniff
Posted: Sunday, September 16, 2012 10:51:43 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/1/2011
Posts: 1,523
Neurons: 3,404
Location: United Kingdom
I think it is a given that it is stupid Foundit.

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. Aristotle
Hope2
Posted: Sunday, September 16, 2012 11:21:21 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/6/2012
Posts: 4,909
Neurons: 16,769
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Every design has a designer

I like your motto, Blooper!

Most of the trouble in the world is caused by people wanting to be important. T. S. Eliot
Truthseeker
Posted: Sunday, September 16, 2012 3:24:15 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/10/2010
Posts: 275
Neurons: 820
percivalpecksniff wrote:
You said Geeman: ‘This thread, and many of the views expressed here, is that it is the religion that is the primary motivation, rather than the myriad other causes that are being dismissed. That just doesn’t add up.’

Yes it is a potpourri of motives that I acknowledge. For some, though, the insult to their religion it is the primary motivation. They of course have, in the main, been manipulated by others, a smaller element, who have different motives.They are the drivers of the car. The religious element are a bit like sheep… easily led and incited to a direction. The movers rely on this fanaticism, which is a common thread in man’s history. Isn’t it what political leaders have always done? They however do not use religion as the catalyst, but nationalism or patriotism... whereas religious leaders use religion and so do terrorists or idealists.

You cannot take out a major ingredient and have the same cake. The fact that many can be incited says something about them surely? You have to have base or unreasoned inclinations at the beginning for them to be kick-started into action.


You further said: But the big question is: Why does it matter? Well, it matters because if you buy into the argument that religion is the cause of this conflict then one completely misses the real causes, and have no chance of dealing with the causes of the problem and, therefore, solving them

So what then is the real cause? Is there a single cause? I doubt it. One could say it is incitement to hatred… revenge … ‘justice’… outrage. One could also bring in the fear of neighbour and what the perception would be if one did not act in protest. There are so many elements. But what is plain is that the men behind the scenes see religion as a major force with which to manipulate people. That must say something about the adherents to the said religions.


VERY well said, Percival.

Applause Applause Applause

Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself. Leo Tolstoy
almostfreebird
Posted: Sunday, September 16, 2012 5:21:57 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/22/2011
Posts: 2,820
Neurons: 7,024
Location: Japan
Geeman
Posted: Sunday, September 16, 2012 6:51:15 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/2/2009
Posts: 1,788
Neurons: 124,562
Location: Whittier, California, United States
percivalpecksniff wrote:
You said Geeman: ‘This thread, and many of the views expressed here, is that it is the religion that is the primary motivation, rather than the myriad other causes that are being dismissed. That just doesn’t add up.’

Yes it is a potpourri of motives that I acknowledge. For some, though, the insult to their religion it is the primary motivation. They of course have, in the main, been manipulated by others, a smaller element, who have different motives.They are the drivers of the car. The religious element are a bit like sheep… easily led and incited to a direction. The movers rely on this fanaticism, which is a common thread in man’s history. Isn’t it what political leaders have always done? They however do not use religion as the catalyst, but nationalism or patriotism... whereas religious leaders use religion and so do terrorists or idealists.

You cannot take out a major ingredient and have the same cake. The fact that many can be incited says something about them surely? You have to have base or unreasoned inclinations at the beginning for them to be kick-started into action.


You further said: But the big question is: Why does it matter? Well, it matters because if you buy into the argument that religion is the cause of this conflict then one completely misses the real causes, and have no chance of dealing with the causes of the problem and, therefore, solving them

So what then is the real cause? Is there a single cause? I doubt it. One could say it is incitement to hatred… revenge … ‘justice’… outrage. One could also bring in the fear of neighbour and what the perception would be if one did not act in protest. There are so many elements. But what is plain is that the men behind the scenes see religion as a major force with which to manipulate people. That must say something about the adherents to the said religions.

I've already described what the real cause is of this violence, and I have to say I find it unsettling that you've missed it. Can it be something other than this insistence that religion is of such importance that explains this question appearing so late in this thread? Your question serves as a perfect example of exactly the problem. Religion doesn't only serve as an excuse for conflict by those who engage in the violence, but as a means for people who observe the conflict to ignore the real causes and discount them with a pat rationalization.

The causes of these conflict, from the previous posts:

Quote:
There are decades of social influences, centuries of cultural ones, obvious economic ones, etc. All those things have to be ignored in order to make religion anything "major" at all.


Quote:
Those reasons mostly have to do with maintaining the political power of those in charge: on one side a warlord and on the other a police state controlled by a social elite. Religion is just a scam to these people.


So, again, THE POINT:

Your stance that religion is a major influence means that, in order to stop the violence, you must destroy the religion. You may not want to recognize the logic of that conclusion, but follow your assertion with the simplest line of reasoning: if religion is the cause then the way to deal with the problem is to confront the religion itself.

This is a tragically useless way to deal with violence. Aside from its superficiality, and the fact that it is fundamentally mistaken, the effort is doomed. Such efforts entrench people into a religious system rather than free them from it, and actually motivate the religious beliefs themselves. That leads to attacks that actually are purely terrorist in nature, and inspired by a theology.

The solution is socio-economic. There has to be a program of education, economic development, civil rights and liberties. It is not a coincidence that these acts of violence have occurred in the countries that have recently been freed from an oppressive dictatorship. When that happens the people who have been oppressed respond to their newfound freedom by fundamentally mistaken the processes of civilization, and react with license rather than freedom, and corruption rather than rights.

Of course, that solution is difficult. It requires time, investment, intelligence and a consistent philosophical approach. See, for instance, the reconstruction of Japan and Germany after WWII as models of how one takes the most oppressive and religiously fanatical nations on Earth and rebuilds them into secular democracies.

Unfortunately, it's much easier to simply blame religion, engage in a largely pointless process of theological bias and more than a little intellectual laziness and discount the whole process. That's exactly what is being suggested in this thread by making religion the primary motivation of this situation, and by going to such lengths to rationalize that position.
jacobusmaximus
Posted: Monday, September 17, 2012 2:58:54 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/17/2009
Posts: 11,567
Neurons: 437,879
Location: Glasgow, Scotland, United Kingdom
If you have something precious and there is an apparent risk that others are trying to take it away from you, then you will do anything to defend it. That's why, centuries ago, England invaded Scotland, Wales and Ireland. It is why so many 'successful' countries want a buffer zone. For many Muslins the most precious thing in their lives is their faith and if you try to take it from them they will die - and kill you - first.

I remember, therefore I am.
niblick
Posted: Monday, September 17, 2012 4:21:20 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/30/2010
Posts: 190
Neurons: 562
Location: United States
jacobusmaximus wrote:
If you have something precious and there is an apparent risk that others are trying to take it away from you, then you will do anything to defend it. That's why, centuries ago, England invaded Scotland, Wales and Ireland. It is why so many 'successful' countries want a buffer zone. For many Muslins the most precious thing in their lives is their faith and if you try to take it from them they will die - and kill you - first.


Yes, Jacobus, but the issue is not so much anyone's desire to detract from another's religion but rather its
imposition on someone else. The West's view of civil liberty is anathema to many.
percivalpecksniff
Posted: Monday, September 17, 2012 4:39:07 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/1/2011
Posts: 1,523
Neurons: 3,404
Location: United Kingdom
Hi again Geeman.

I have already made plain that I do not consider there to be a simple solution, and that there are multiple causes. I have also said that religion is used by others who have different motives. The fact remains, however, that it is precisely because others see the power of religion that they use it as a tool to incite… that fact CANNOT BE ESCAPED. That said, one cannot abrogate the responsibility of those who allow themselves to be incited in the name of their religion. You are attempting to remove that responsibility for some reason.



You say: Quote: The causes of these conflicts:

There are decades of social influences, centuries of cultural ones, obvious economic ones, etc. All those things have to be ignored in order to make religion anything "major" at all.
Those reasons mostly have to do with maintaining the political power of those in charge: on one side a warlord and on the other a police state controlled by a social elite. Religion is just a scam to these people.unquote

Yes, they are certainly factors which I myself have expostulated… the political element has always recognized the influence of religion and used it.... of course it is a scam by this prominent minority. As to cultural and social influences though, these are often the result, or cause, of religion. Things like ignorance and poverty, a lack of mind mobility and willingness to reason or give way to common sense. So even within your parameters, religion is very much at work. It is and always has been a major cause of war and violence, poverty and social unrest.

Religion has hindered the path of progress, while paradoxically being a force for good in being the bedrock of law.

It is a dichotomy, and your point about religions removal is a serious one. I have often thought that it is a major obstacle to true peace, but to envision its removal seems impossible. One has to ask; what will replace it? It would create a huge vacuum.

There is one interesting point with regard to religions influence. In the so called Christian lands it is largely nominal, isn't it, and so less powerful, whereas in the non-Christian communities it taken at a very much more serious level and this opens its adherents up to nefarious influences and manipulation. But… one has to allow oneself to be manipulated, and that fact places religion at the centre of unrest. It is indeed a major player.


It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. Aristotle
percivalpecksniff
Posted: Monday, September 17, 2012 4:51:00 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/1/2011
Posts: 1,523
Neurons: 3,404
Location: United Kingdom
You said Jacob: 'If you have something precious and there is an apparent risk that others are trying to take it away from you, then you will do anything to defend it' unquote


I am struggling to understand you. On the one hand you freely confessed here on this forum that rather than suffer pain of torture you would deny Jesus and blaspheme God… now you say that in the cause of nationalism you would fight and die… do anything, as you say.


It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. Aristotle
jacobusmaximus
Posted: Monday, September 17, 2012 7:10:32 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/17/2009
Posts: 11,567
Neurons: 437,879
Location: Glasgow, Scotland, United Kingdom
percivalpecksniff wrote:
You said Jacob: 'If you have something precious and there is an apparent risk that others are trying to take it away from you, then you will do anything to defend it' unquote


I am struggling to understand you. On the one hand you freely confessed here on this forum that rather than suffer pain of torture you would deny Jesus and blaspheme God… now you say that in the cause of nationalism you would fight and die… do anything, as you say.


EH?

I remember, therefore I am.
jacobusmaximus
Posted: Monday, September 17, 2012 7:35:25 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/17/2009
Posts: 11,567
Neurons: 437,879
Location: Glasgow, Scotland, United Kingdom
niblick wrote:
jacobusmaximus wrote:
If you have something precious and there is an apparent risk that others are trying to take it away from you, then you will do anything to defend it. That's why, centuries ago, England invaded Scotland, Wales and Ireland. It is why so many 'successful' countries want a buffer zone. For many Muslins the most precious thing in their lives is their faith and if you try to take it from them they will die - and kill you - first.


Yes, Jacobus, but the issue is not so much anyone's desire to detract from another's religion but rather its imposition on someone else. The West's view of civil liberty is anathema to many.


It is anathema to many people in the West too, especially older people like me. I find it intolerable that I am required to accept the standards of others, like people who don't want to mention the word 'Christmas', so we must all agree that it is a 'Holiday Tree' and a 'Winter Festival'. These things detract from my religion but I'm not going to riot over it. Why? Because I have too much too lose and it is not going to make any difference anyway. Many Muslims in Arab countries have nothing to lose except the faith that is their only reason for living.

I remember, therefore I am.
almostfreebird
Posted: Monday, September 17, 2012 9:41:07 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/22/2011
Posts: 2,820
Neurons: 7,024
Location: Japan
jacobusmaximus wrote:
percivalpecksniff wrote:
You said Jacob: 'If you have something precious and there is an apparent risk that others are trying to take it away from you, then you will do anything to defend it' unquote


I am struggling to understand you. On the one hand you freely confessed here on this forum that rather than suffer pain of torture you would deny Jesus and blaspheme God… now you say that in the cause of nationalism you would fight and die… do anything, as you say.


EH?




Percivalpecksniff mixed up this and this, I think.



Blooper
Posted: Monday, September 17, 2012 11:17:03 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/4/2010
Posts: 839
Neurons: 2,292
Location: South Borneo
Hope2 wrote:

Every design has a designer

I like your motto, Blooper!


Thank you Hope2, what happened to Hope v.1.0?


Tovie, I am still enjoying this forum and I certainly am no one hit wonder.


"Wherever ye are, death will find you out, even if ye are in towers built up strong and high!" (An-Nisa':78)
Blooper
Posted: Monday, September 17, 2012 11:50:41 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/4/2010
Posts: 839
Neurons: 2,292
Location: South Borneo
jacobusmaximus wrote:
For many Muslins the most precious thing in their lives is their faith and if you try to take it from them they will die - and kill you - first.


I think you are spot on jacobus, I wish I could meet you...



Btw, I am wondering how people opinion about Islam in Vanuatu, Bhutan, Lesotho,...

"Wherever ye are, death will find you out, even if ye are in towers built up strong and high!" (An-Nisa':78)
RuthP
Posted: Monday, September 17, 2012 1:36:58 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 5,095
Neurons: 53,528
Location: Drain, Oregon, United States
Sorry for the length of this post. This is Benghazi after the killings. These are people who live in Benghazi, in a country which is still unsettled and represents a level of danger we do not usually see here at home. Nevertheless, they placed themselves and their families at risk to send their message of apology and peace very publicly to the people of America.

I am not a big fan of religion. Religion is not always a message of peace. The absolute nature of Faith (capital letter used advisedly) makes it all too easy to be Right (ditto) and others, therefore Wrong And Unworthy (ditto). But, the messages of violence and war come from individuals and one should not blame the many followers of a religion for the acts of the violent few.



Hope2
Posted: Monday, September 17, 2012 2:18:34 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/6/2012
Posts: 4,909
Neurons: 16,769
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Thank you RuthP. Gives one hope and goes to show once again that it is the few who cause the problems!

ONE idiot set this up, I think to co-incide with 9/11, and only A FEW around the world have decided to riot. Who knows their motivations, and probably they are multi-dimensional. If they were strictly religious motives, then I would hope they would 'get a grip', but this is not likely to happen. When 'absolute truths' are threatened, PEOPLE feel threatened. Ruth here, and Romany in another post, expressed that well. If only we could all practise 'best guess' religion, we could let others believe what they want without feeling threatened ourselves. 'Best guess' means that we learn and reflect and decide what to believe, but acknowledge that no one CAN ever know for sure. That said, no one has the right to belittle anyone for any reason.

Most of us around the world, like Blooper, and those in the pictures, just want to make the best of this thing called life.

We had a few problems with the last G20 meeting in Toronto. It was fuelled by a few 'Professional Protesters' who are into violence. They travel around and stir the excitable up. Some of the guilty were identified and arrested but some innocents got caught in the mess and they are still trying to sort it out. We were very upset because we usually are a peaceful country.

I wonder how many of the rioters were like those professional ones here.








Most of the trouble in the world is caused by people wanting to be important. T. S. Eliot
Hope2
Posted: Monday, September 17, 2012 2:27:11 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/6/2012
Posts: 4,909
Neurons: 16,769
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Blooper,

I was sorry I cancelled my account when I was very sick because I could not re-join as Hope1. So, I 'graduated' or was 'demoted' to Hope2. Whistle
Whichever way you look at it, I am That I am. (I'm just one of the people.)

Most of the trouble in the world is caused by people wanting to be important. T. S. Eliot
Pantomime
Posted: Monday, September 17, 2012 2:38:34 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 2/25/2011
Posts: 81
Neurons: 236
Location: France
"one should not blame the many followers of a religion for the acts of the violent few."

I often encounter this argument. It is a fallacy. The true Nazis were just " a few" of the Germans, most of them had no choice but to obey the laws of the Nazi regime and some simply enjoyed the return in German pride they got from the Nazis.Yet, it is those true Nazis that threw the World into a bloodbath. Only the true Nazis were executing the ennemies of the Reich, yet, they gunned down about a million civilian people ( look up the Einzastgruppen ), men, women and children alike.





Poor skeleton couldn't attend the ball, he had no body to go with.
percivalpecksniff
Posted: Monday, September 17, 2012 5:08:23 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/1/2011
Posts: 1,523
Neurons: 3,404
Location: United Kingdom
You opined Hope2: ‘Gives one hope and goes to show once again that it is the few who cause the problems!’ only A FEW around the world have decided to riot

Yes Hope it is a minority, but a few? I think not. It is a sizeable minority that allow themselves to be manipulated too fanaticism. You dismiss the problem to lightly I think.

Yes, I to applaud the brave Muslims with a social conscience as portrayed in RuthP’s posted photos. Unfortunately that is truly a few, and many more are needed.

In fact there are volatile nations where a sizeable minority are fanatics


It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. Aristotle
Hope2
Posted: Monday, September 17, 2012 5:22:40 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/6/2012
Posts: 4,909
Neurons: 16,769
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
I bow to your superior knowledge, PPS. I do not wish to argue with anyone.

I have not been following it. However, I just looked up the latest estimates of numbers of Muslims around the world. It is up to about 1.57 billion people.

Do you have percentage estimates of how many are rioting?

Pantomime, I have heard these interesting words before. However, could you please be more specific as to what German people could have done differently when in fear for their lives, or what Joe, the plumber, and I, who live in a democracy can do? Or people who live under a dictator can accomplish?

Letters written to governments here are 'gratefully acknowledged' and then they follow the party line anyhow.



Most of the trouble in the world is caused by people wanting to be important. T. S. Eliot
Tovarish
Posted: Monday, September 17, 2012 10:53:10 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/2/2009
Posts: 11,109
Neurons: 39,933
Location: Booligal, New South Wales, Australia
Today in Sydney,Australia a press conference held by a combined comittee of Muslim representitives.

They denounced the unauthorised protests and violence committed by a minority of their communities.

That Australia was a multi religeous country, and the Muslim community and their faith was non violent, and that Allah did not accept anger.

At the same time a combined press conference was held in Melbourne by the Coptic Christians and Muslim communities, distancing themselves from

the violence and out pouring of agression in Sydney.
Users browsing this topic
Guest


Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Main Forum RSS : RSS
Forum Terms and Guidelines | Privacy policy | Copyright © 2008-2018 Farlex, Inc. All rights reserved.