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Same song, verse ad nauseum - Islam is NOT a violent religion Options
Truthseeker
Posted: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 6:38:03 PM

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Repeat after me - ISLAM IS NOT A VIOLENT RELIGION

Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself. Leo Tolstoy
niblick
Posted: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 7:01:57 PM
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It seems a bit enervating to observe how predictable this was. For a knowledgeable take,
see Mark Steyn at realclearpolitics.com.

Particularly distasteful was the mewling of kneejerk liberals who saw no problem with the Muslim
Brotherhood and the Arab 'Spring'. While these 'useful idiots' cooed sweet nothings into each
others' ears, the groundwork for this and future similar events was laid. You will be waiting a
while, Truthseeker, to hear a mea culpa from the Knownothing Chorus.
TL Hobs
Posted: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:13:04 PM

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niblick wrote:
It seems a bit enervating to observe how predictable this was.


Having never used it before, I admit that I had to look up the word "enervating" and found the definition: "To weaken or destroy the strength or vitality of" Now, I am unsure of your meaning here. Do you mean that it seems to be weakening to observe how predictable this was? That doesn't make any sense.

Or, perhaps, you meant to say "invigorating?" Given your use of perjoratives: "kneejerk liberals", "useful idiots", and "Knownothing Chorus" I assume that is what you meant. It made you feel better.

Please explain.

"When you don't know where you are going, you have to stick together just in case someone gets there." - Ken Kesey
Tovarish
Posted: Thursday, September 13, 2012 2:42:11 AM

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The Lybian President has apologised to the US for the killing of their Ambassador and 3 others.

Apparently premeditated to co-inside with 9/11, as there was considerable planning and arming.

I may have become synical, but how many times do we heard, 'When is the West going to assist us?'

The Arab League was a total failure during the Arab Spring.



HWNN1961
Posted: Thursday, September 13, 2012 3:46:05 AM

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This needs saying:

Libya is a nation of several million souls. Only a few hundred, armed with rockets and explosives "protested" an incendiary film that no one can identify the perpetrator of. Even the actors claim they were lied to during the filming.

Egypt has what, 60 or 80 million souls. A few thousand showed up and rioted in front of the US embassy.

There are those that deeply desire a Western (in their view, Christian) v. Muslim conflict.

Peace loving people, the vast majority of Muslims, want no conflict. Most Libyans are deeply grateful for the US support of th ouster of the dicator.

I'm glad to see that the trolls have gotten some fresh air after countless hours under their bridge. After stretching their legs, they are invited to return to their dank holds. It was a nice reunion. But, the only thing missing is for Redstar, one of their alter-egos, to come out and say that a complete Muslim government takeover of the USA is the only proper response to anger over a

"Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless, and do no wrong". (Knight's Oath, Kingdom of Heaven)
HWNN1961
Posted: Thursday, September 13, 2012 4:11:04 AM

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After "technical difficulties".

anger over a situation created by a "film maker' variously described as "Coptic Christian, an Egyptian Muslim, a Jewish-

"Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless, and do no wrong". (Knight's Oath, Kingdom of Heaven)
almostfreebird
Posted: Thursday, September 13, 2012 4:24:12 AM

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HWNN1961 wrote:
This needs saying:

Libya is a nation of several million souls. Only a few hundred, armed with rockets and explosives "protested" an incendiary film that no one can identify the perpetrator of. Even the actors claim they were lied to during the filming.

Egypt has what, 60 or 80 million souls. A few thousand showed up and rioted in front of the US embassy.

There are those that deeply desire a Western (in their view, Christian) v. Muslim conflict.

Peace loving people, the vast majority of Muslims, want no conflict. Most Libyans are deeply grateful for the US support of th ouster of the dicator.





I second that.


Tovarish
Posted: Thursday, September 13, 2012 4:24:12 AM

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Today also, an off shoot of main stream Muslins, has been charged with illegal weapons, litriture to incite desent, plans to commit terroism.

In a suburb of Melbourne, just a young man of 23, unfortunatly all of the Muslim Faith are tainted by one man.

I agree with every thing you said HWNN, and I saw the placards being held for the TV cameras, wishing to comment on the real feelings of

Libyans.

I think there may be Gremlins in our computers.
HWNN1961
Posted: Thursday, September 13, 2012 5:20:16 AM

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Allow dissent. Don't mess with those you know disagree. Then we can talk you troll.

"Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless, and do no wrong". (Knight's Oath, Kingdom of Heaven)
dusty
Posted: Thursday, September 13, 2012 9:21:01 AM

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I don't think people understand exactly what it means to be able to be in constant communication contact with anywhere in the world if we choose to be.

People do not understand that the level of honesty that passed for honest yesterday, will no longer be seen as honest today and tomorrow.

Americans have experienced the greatest amount of freedom of speech and as a result many do not recognize when they are abusing it.

Anytime we use communication that lends to confusion as opposed to understanding, it will become the seeds of outrage that can spread like wildfire. We really need to wake up and recognize what it is we are doing. The world will only get more volatile if there is no respect for what others hold sacred.

Politics are going to take a major shift, as no longer will any leader or party be able to make even short term gains by being less than truthful. Only those who understand that this world is our home, the inhabitants are our People, and the world will outgrow it's britches in the blink of an eye if it is governed by leaders who do not have a very clear understanding of what is wrong and what is right. Those who cannot or choose not to be empathetic to others will likely not make it as a human being in this world.

If I/we cannot put myself/ourselves in another's shoes and have the wisdom to treat others the way I/we want to be treated (including showing respect towards those who do not have the same wants of me/Us) I wish people could understand what is happening, because it is only going to get harder to wake up. And it seems like more are getting worse instead of better.

To be concerned of the fate of the world is not bad, but bearing false witness is to not be
Truthseeker
Posted: Thursday, September 13, 2012 9:40:14 AM

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HWNN1961 wrote:



Allow dissent. Don't mess with those you know disagree. Then we can talk you troll.


yes. Let's allow dissent and not mess with those who disagree. Let's lend approval to murdering Americans because of their freedom of speech.

As for Troll.........is that the best you can do? Surely, even with a limited vocabulary, you can use a thesaurus to find more more inflammatory words than that.



Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself. Leo Tolstoy
percivalpecksniff
Posted: Thursday, September 13, 2012 10:16:58 AM

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Are you a Muslim Truthseeker? I ask because the following statement by you is off the wall and is just the type of comment relayed by extreme Muslims.


You said: 'Let's lend approval to murdering Americans because of their freedom of speech.'

Are you saying that freedom of speech... even if misused... justifies murder? 'Oh I can kill and maim because he hurt me or offended me with words.'

Muslims are not violent, on the whole, but a goodly section of them are undoubtedly extreme and murderous and have a warped view of what pleases Allah. The god of the extremists surely does not exist... if he does he is a blaggard.

What is this bunkum about vestigial virgins? Who in their right mind would want fifty of them in attendance? Who dreamed up that number?


It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. Aristotle
jacobusmaximus
Posted: Thursday, September 13, 2012 10:47:30 AM

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Islam is not a violent religion. A minority are extremely violent, while the majority are silent. That's understandable. They would be murdered if they spoke out against the violent minority.

I remember, therefore I am.
Blooper
Posted: Thursday, September 13, 2012 11:57:11 AM

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jacobusmaximus wrote:
Islam is not a violent religion. A minority are extremely violent, while the majority are silent. That's understandable. They would be murdered if they spoke out against the violent minority.


Do you think my silence is a sign of my approval of their action, jacob?
No I am silent because nothing I can do about it, or should I speak, my voice would be meaningless.
Honestly, I don't care either about your freedom of speech (Denmark cartoons, Gert Wilder, Terry Jones, etc) or the muslims reactions to your freedom of speech.
I don't condone both the insulting actions and the violent reactions but I can't control theirs.


"Wherever ye are, death will find you out, even if ye are in towers built up strong and high!" (An-Nisa':78)
Blooper
Posted: Thursday, September 13, 2012 12:24:22 PM

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And oh, nobody threatens to kill me

"Wherever ye are, death will find you out, even if ye are in towers built up strong and high!" (An-Nisa':78)
percivalpecksniff
Posted: Thursday, September 13, 2012 1:09:27 PM

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JM opined: A minority are extremely violent, while the majority are silent. That's understandable. They would be murdered if they spoke out against the violent minority.


Ever the apologist I see. It needs the majority of peace loving Muslims to make their views known does it not? The voice of the moderate is a powerful one, for it is the voice of reason.

Although I do not think the majority of Muslims approve of the behaviour of the sizable violent minority,

nevertheless silence may well be construed as tacit agreement by some.


Indifference is not enough, Blooper.




It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. Aristotle
Truthseeker
Posted: Thursday, September 13, 2012 1:46:09 PM

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percivalpecksniff wrote:
Are you a Muslim Truthseeker? I ask because the following statement by you is off the wall and is just the type of comment relayed by extreme Muslims.


You said: 'Let's lend approval to murdering Americans because of their freedom of speech.'

Are you saying that freedom of speech... even if misused... justifies murder? 'Oh I can kill and maim because he hurt me or offended me with words.'

Muslims are not violent, on the whole, but a goodly section of them are undoubtedly extreme and murderous and have a warped view of what pleases Allah. The god of the extremists surely does not exist... if he does he is a blaggard.

What is this bunkum about vestigial virgins? Who in their right mind would want fifty of them in attendance? Who dreamed up that number?


If you go back and look at the post, you'll see that mine is a response to HWNN, who argues for approval. Mine was merely sarcasm. I think it's totally ridiculous to defend those who either murder or stand by and do nothing while others watch - in the name of Muhammad, or any other prophet.

Read again. Hope this clears things up a bit.

Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself. Leo Tolstoy
Blooper
Posted: Thursday, September 13, 2012 2:09:22 PM

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Ah Percie, I thought it was you who taught me not to worry about something that nothing we can do about it. My indifference is one of my way to stop worrying. I don't think condemning the attack would change Truthseeker's opinion about Islam, or stop the violence in Libya, Egypt, Afghanistan.

"Wherever ye are, death will find you out, even if ye are in towers built up strong and high!" (An-Nisa':78)
percivalpecksniff
Posted: Thursday, September 13, 2012 3:01:45 PM

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Yes Blooper you are in a difficult positon. The film was wrong and the reaction was extreme, not to say murderous.

I am firmly of the opinion that most Muslims want peace are no different in their aspirations than others.

However, to hear the voice of moderate Muslims speak out is a good thing in itselfeven if it appears to carry no weight.

PS: Negative expressions can rightly be levelled at psuedo christianity and the churches that lead tem... it is not one-sided by any means. Both world wars were fought between 'christians.'

Take care.


It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. Aristotle
Geeman
Posted: Thursday, September 13, 2012 3:27:36 PM

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Religion is an easy target for blame. That's largely because religious people are quick to take credit for things that having nothing to do with their religion and, unfortunately for them, it works both ways. For instance, religious people often attribute some negative weather or geological event to the wrath of God. Religious people see the outbreak of disease as a manifestation of God's will. Those who win a war, a ball game, survive a heart attack, or even just get through a long, dull afternoon will attribute it to their faith in a way that would be pathetic and laughable were it not given so much credibility.

Is it really surprising that, after having lowered the bar so low, religions would subsequently take the blame for violence and political unrest, particularly when those things are done in the name of religion and participants chant religious slogans during the event?

The truth is that religion is no more responsible for these events than Odin was responsible for the Vikings, Jesus for the victory of some football team, or the God of Abraham for the success of Raiders of the Lost Ark.

This is a socio-economic clash on a political battlefield. That's really it. Sure, a lot of religious vocabulary will be bandied about, but actual religious beliefs don't make any more difference to the situation than Cassius Clay changing his name to Muhammad Ali made him a better boxer.
percivalpecksniff
Posted: Thursday, September 13, 2012 5:28:06 PM

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Geeman you said: The truth is that religion is no more responsible for these events than Odin was responsible for the Vikings, Jesus for the victory of some football team, or the God of Abraham for the success of Raiders of the Lost Ark.

There is a truth in what you say, but surely it is not the whole picture. For example Christian values as set out in the bible prevent a Christian going to war, yet the churches blessed the weapons of both sides and the protagonists on both sides were in the main professed Christians. It was a war of believers even if many were nominal in such.

The Iraqi Iran war was fought between devout Muslims...is that what their religion taught them? A million died for a measley strip of land that was handed back.

On that note what responsibility do the Müllers bear?


It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. Aristotle
Tovarish
Posted: Thursday, September 13, 2012 8:56:56 PM

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I am amazed at the obcession with religeon and polotics, how do they find the time to commit?.

Where are their lives?

What happens to spouse, house, work, kids, stock/pets, cooking dinner, bake a cake, mow the lawn, water the veggie garden,

interact with Forum Friends, visit rellies, wash a car, go to the footie, the races or just sit in the sun and be grateful for life,

health and happiness?.

This is not a 'Dress Rehersal' enjoy life, enjoy a loving God.

It is a consious decission!

I am off to pat a dog!



Hope2
Posted: Thursday, September 13, 2012 10:36:48 PM

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Tovarish -

Applause Applause Applause

Most of the trouble in the world is caused by people wanting to be important. T. S. Eliot
jacobusmaximus
Posted: Friday, September 14, 2012 11:09:01 AM

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Geeman wrote:
Religion is an easy target for blame. That's largely because religious people are quick to take credit for things that having nothing to do with their religion and, unfortunately for them, it works both ways. For instance, religious people often attribute some negative weather or geological event to the wrath of God. Religious people see the outbreak of disease as a manifestation of God's will. Those who win a war, a ball game, survive a heart attack, or even just get through a long, dull afternoon will attribute it to their faith in a way that would be pathetic and laughable were it not given so much credibility.

Is it really surprising that, after having lowered the bar so low, religions would subsequently take the blame for violence and political unrest, particularly when those things are done in the name of religion and participants chant religious slogans during the event?

The truth is that religion is no more responsible for these events than Odin was responsible for the Vikings, Jesus for the victory of some football team, or the God of Abraham for the success of Raiders of the Lost Ark.

This is a socio-economic clash on a political battlefield. That's really it. Sure, a lot of religious vocabulary will be bandied about, but actual religious beliefs don't make any more difference to the situation than Cassius Clay changing his name to Muhammad Ali made him a better boxer.


Geeman, you forgot to insert the words 'some' and 'few' in your piece:
SOME religious people are quick to take credit etc., etc.
A FEW religious people often attribute negative weather patters...to God.


You are tarring billions of religious people all with the same stick, whereas we rarely hear such narrow statements these days. Our understanding of Scripture and the way God works in our lives has moved on in the last century. It is a small minority of religious people who make such claims now.

You must accept, surely, that it is religiosity that incites such a violent reaction as we see in the middle east at present. If the rioters cared as little about their religion as we in the West do about ours then there would be no reaction at all. So religion can have an effect on the behaviour of some people and directly affect the outcome of their actions.

I am quite convinced that Cassius Clay became a better boxer following his commitment to Islam. Something powerfully spiritual came into his life giving him confidence, self-respect and commitment to excellence as well as a new identity. Religion does that, for sure. But religion does not bring certainty of salvation. Faith does that.

I remember, therefore I am.
Geeman
Posted: Friday, September 14, 2012 3:49:21 PM

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percivalpecksniff wrote:
Geeman you said: The truth is that religion is no more responsible for these events than Odin was responsible for the Vikings, Jesus for the victory of some football team, or the God of Abraham for the success of Raiders of the Lost Ark.

There is a truth in what you say, but surely it is not the whole picture. For example Christian values as set out in the bible prevent a Christian going to war, yet the churches blessed the weapons of both sides and the protagonists on both sides were in the main professed Christians. It was a war of believers even if many were nominal in such.

The Iraqi Iran war was fought between devout Muslims...is that what their religion taught them? A million died for a measley strip of land that was handed back.

On that note what responsibility do the Müllers bear?

I remain unconvinced that religion has any real influence on these events other than to act as the rationalization. The Iran-Iraq war was fought for socio-political reasons, not religious ones. Both sides claimed to have God on their sides and used the vocabulary of religion ("jihad" in this case) but religion was incidental to the actual reasons for the war. Those reasons mostly have to do with maintaining the political power of those in charge: on one side a warlord and on the other a police state controlled by a social elite. Religion is just a scam to these people. They use it to manipulate people into killing and dying for them, but their actual motives have nothing to do with a religious doctrine.

To describe wars as being Muslim against Muslim or Christian against Christian is to fundamentally mistake the actual reasons for those wars. Even events like the American Revolution is often cast in religious terms, but does it really make sense to call that a Christian versus Christian war? It was socio-economic through and through.

Von Clausewitz said that "war is politics by other means" and though most people don't seem to fully grasp the meaning of that dictum, and have often misused it in order to justify their actions, he was essentially correct. The entire process of putting a war into religious terms is an obfuscation. It's one that people often fall for, but the reasons for that are far too many to get into just now....
Geeman
Posted: Friday, September 14, 2012 4:07:37 PM

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jacobusmaximus wrote:
Geeman, you forgot to insert the words 'some' and 'few' in your piece:
SOME religious people are quick to take credit etc., etc.
A FEW religious people often attribute negative weather patters...to God.


You are tarring billions of religious people all with the same stick, whereas we rarely hear such narrow statements these days. Our understanding of Scripture and the way God works in our lives has moved on in the last century. It is a small minority of religious people who make such claims now.

You must accept, surely, that it is religiosity that incites such a violent reaction as we see in the middle east at present. If the rioters cared as little about their religion as we in the West do about ours then there would be no reaction at all. So religion can have an effect on the behavior of some people and directly affect the outcome of their actions.

I am quite convinced that Cassius Clay became a better boxer following his commitment to Islam. Something powerfully spiritual came into his life giving him confidence, self-respect and commitment to excellence as well as a new identity. Religion does that, for sure. But religion does not bring certainty of salvation. Faith does that.

Actually, I don't think I'd qualify my statements by putting either "some" or "a few" in front of them. If I were to qualify them at all, I'd use "the vast majority" and "almost invariably" as qualifiers, but I'm quite comfortable with the meaning of those sentences as written. Religion might very well be a process of taking credit for things that should be described by simpler, much less mystical things. But even if that isn't a good operating definition (and I think it is) the process of attributing even the most casual daily occurrence to some religious agency or another does seem to be a universal trait amongst people who espouse a particular religion. You might want to characterize that as me "tarring billions of religious people with the same stick" but I would have to characterize it as simply recognizing the extent and depth of mass irrationality.

Further, I would not agree with your assessment that it is religiosity that incites such a violent reaction as we see in the middle east at present. Religion is merely a pretext for what is a socio-political conflict. Any number of events could have been used to justify the attacks. Attacks on embassies have been justified by cartoons printed in the newspaper, books by Salman Rushdie, the flames printed on a pair of trainers. The people who perpetrated this violence were (and still are) literally waiting for an excuse to act. The anger is rationalized with religious vocabulary, but the real cause of their anger is socio-economic. That they feel the need to justify themselves is a cultural issue.

The Cassius Clay/Muhammad Ali thing is a perfectly good example of exactly how the logic is turned on its ear. Did he become a better boxer after changing his name? Maybe. (Joe Frazier might have disagreed.) But to attribute his development as a boxer to the Nation of Islam rather than, say, his actual boxing coaches, his own talent, thousands of hours spent training, his experience as a fighter, the support of his family, or any number of other influences is to fundamentally confuse cause and effect. Coincidence is not causation, no matter how pat and easy that relationship might seem.
Geeman
Posted: Friday, September 14, 2012 4:24:40 PM

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Let me see if I can frame this by asking an inverted version of the question:

If this violence is to be attributed to Islam, why didn't muslims all over the world participate? Why didn't the U.S. Embassy in Mali get attacked?

Why isn't Deerborne, MI on fire?

Are we to take from the lack of response in other countries that those people don't take their faith as seriously as others? Or should we recognize that in certain countries the motives are different, and religion a more or less constant?
jacobusmaximus
Posted: Friday, September 14, 2012 6:27:29 PM

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Geeman wrote:
Let me see if I can frame this by asking an inverted version of the question:

If this violence is to be attributed to Islam, why didn't muslims all over the world participate? Why didn't the U.S. Embassy in Mali get attacked?

Why isn't Deerborne, MI on fire?

Are we to take from the lack of response in other countries that those people don't take their faith as seriously as others? Or should we recognize that in certain countries the motives are different, and religion a more or less constant?


Religion is seldom the only influence on people's lives, even in strictly Islamic communities. A good standard of living, quality education and stable government all play a part in how people behave. But if people have nothing, not even hope, they can be easily influenced by Spiritual leaders who are more interested in their own power than in the things of God. So religion is not a constant. Faith in God is, but you first have to find God.

I remember, therefore I am.
jacobusmaximus
Posted: Friday, September 14, 2012 6:41:04 PM

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Blooper wrote:
jacobusmaximus wrote:
Islam is not a violent religion. A minority are extremely violent, while the majority are silent. That's understandable. They would be murdered if they spoke out against the violent minority.


Do you think my silence is a sign of my approval of their action, jacob?
No I am silent because nothing I can do about it, or should I speak, my voice would be meaningless.
Honestly, I don't care either about your freedom of speech (Denmark cartoons, Gert Wilder, Terry Jones, etc) or the muslims reactions to your freedom of speech.
I don't condone both the insulting actions and the violent reactions but I can't control theirs.


Yes, I do think your silence is a sign of your approval of the violent actions of militant Islamicists Blooper, and they will come to the same conclusion. Ordinary people like you and me need to let it be known what side we are on. I believe it does make a difference. But it is the influential Muslim leaders I am complaining about. There are few examples of them condemning the violence. They should be letting it be known that suicide bombers are not martyrs but murderers. That they are not going to Heaven but to Hell. But they are silent on these matters, either because they approve of them, or because they are afraid. I am inclined to think it is because they are afraid.

I remember, therefore I am.
Blooper
Posted: Saturday, September 15, 2012 2:56:41 AM

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jacobusmaximus wrote:
Blooper wrote:
jacobusmaximus wrote:
Islam is not a violent religion. A minority are extremely violent, while the majority are silent. That's understandable. They would be murdered if they spoke out against the violent minority.


Do you think my silence is a sign of my approval of their action, jacob?
No I am silent because nothing I can do about it, or should I speak, my voice would be meaningless.
Honestly, I don't care either about your freedom of speech (Denmark cartoons, Gert Wilder, Terry Jones, etc) or the muslims reactions to your freedom of speech.
I don't condone both the insulting actions and the violent reactions but I can't control theirs.


Yes, I do think your silence is a sign of your approval of the violent actions of militant Islamicists Blooper, and they will come to the same conclusion. Ordinary people like you and me need to let it be known what side we are on. I believe it does make a difference. But it is the influential Muslim leaders I am complaining about. There are few examples of them condemning the violence. They should be letting it be known that suicide bombers are not martyrs but murderers. That they are not going to Heaven but to Hell. But they are silent on these matters, either because they approve of them, or because they are afraid. I am inclined to think it is because they are afraid.


When the US invaded/liberated (choose whichever word suits you) Afghanistan and Iraq, I was as indifferent as I am now, and I don't think I supported the US invasion/liberation of Afghanistan/Iraq.
The truth is I have my own problems (family, work, financial, etc) that enough to make me stressful and I am sure billions other muslims have the same. And maybe some of muslims problem in Libya, Afghanistan is the US, maybe..

"Wherever ye are, death will find you out, even if ye are in towers built up strong and high!" (An-Nisa':78)
jacobusmaximus
Posted: Saturday, September 15, 2012 3:43:49 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/17/2009
Posts: 11,534
Neurons: 430,478
Location: Glasgow, Scotland, United Kingdom
Blooper wrote:
When the US invaded/liberated (choose whichever word suits you) Afghanistan and Iraq, I was as indifferent as I am now, and I don't think I supported the US invasion/liberation of Afghanistan/Iraq.
The truth is I have my own problems (family, work, financial, etc) that enough to make me stressful and I am sure billions other muslims have the same. And maybe some of muslims problem in Libya, Afghanistan is the US, maybe..

I think you are saying that you are Mr/Mrs/Ms Average, having no strong feelings about such things as Islamic Fundamentalism or the insability in the Middle East. You are too busy keeping body and soul together to form strong opinions about such matters. But the very fact that you contribute to this Forum shows that you are not Mr/Mrs/Ms Average. Mr/Mrs/Ms Average couldn't be bothered with this. He or she would never give a thought to the difference between an invasion or a liberation. You evidently have given it some thought and I am sure you have your own opinions on the matter. But you want it to be known that not all Muslims are extremists. Well that is understood. Non Muslims like me feel the same way. Just staying alive and caring about my home, my family and my neighbourhood could occupy every hour of the day. But that wouldn't make world problems go away. Matters such as hunger, poverty and war deserve some of our thoughts and some kind of action by us. Even if the action is limited to letting others know what side you are on.

I remember, therefore I am.
Tovarish
Posted: Saturday, September 15, 2012 3:45:46 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/2/2009
Posts: 11,109
Neurons: 39,933
Location: Booligal, New South Wales, Australia
The 'pepper spray' was flying in Hyde Park, Sydney, today.

This may be a minority of Muslims, and I dont doubt that it is,

but they are seen by the majority of Aussies as being the mouth piece of Muslims.

What is that wonderful comment, 'all it needs is good people to say silent?' some one wil fill in the gaps for me.
jacobusmaximus
Posted: Saturday, September 15, 2012 4:04:59 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/17/2009
Posts: 11,534
Neurons: 430,478
Location: Glasgow, Scotland, United Kingdom
Tovarish wrote:
The 'pepper spray' was flying in Hyde Park, Sydney, today.

This may be a minority of Muslims, and I dont doubt that it is,

but they are seen by the majority of Aussies as being the mouth piece of Muslims.

What is that wonderful comment, 'all it needs is good people to say silent?' some one wil fill in the gaps for me.


All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Edmond Burke.

What's the 'pepper spray, please, Tovarish.


I remember, therefore I am.
Blooper
Posted: Saturday, September 15, 2012 4:33:52 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/4/2010
Posts: 839
Neurons: 2,292
Location: South Borneo


"Wherever ye are, death will find you out, even if ye are in towers built up strong and high!" (An-Nisa':78)
Tovarish
Posted: Saturday, September 15, 2012 4:40:38 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/2/2009
Posts: 11,109
Neurons: 39,933
Location: Booligal, New South Wales, Australia
Thanks Jaco, thats it.

A protest started in the CBD of Sydney today, around 200 Muslims gathered by a text message sent out about the video offending Muslims.

It was not an orthorised protest and 150 Police, dogs and horses also attended.

Hardly a peaceful protest with damage to Police cars, Police and a Police Dog injured.

9 protester were arrested and charged with 'Riot and affray, assault Police and dogs, damage to vehicles' etc.

The orthorised protest for tomorrow has been cancelled.



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