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Really? So privatizing is going to get US back on track? Options
dusty
Posted: Monday, August 20, 2012 12:55:35 PM

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I am having a hard time with the Republican drive to privatize industries that are among the highest paid out budgets funded by IRS collected tax revenue. Important things, like our healthcare.

First of all, these are not services that are supposed to be profitable. They are services that we all pitch in, in order spread the cost so that we don't get stuck loosing our life savings or our homes in the event of getting seriously injured or ill.

I don't like the plan of giving that tax revenue to private companies so that they can turn a profit. We are not widgits, they aren't running a business where they can analyze costs and decide to trim costs X with only Y amount of loss in the widgit service quality. These are lives and people, we do not need healthcare decisions made for US by a private businesses who are in it to make a profit.

THIS IS HOW WE GOT INTO THIS MESS TO BEGIN WITH!!

Here it is two thousand twelve, not only are we one of the only industrialized nations without a universal healthcare plan but the privatized system we DO have is held hostage by drug companies fleecing America and insurance companies choosing who they treat and who they will not.

How many people have friends or family who only got the medical procedure they desperately needed only after petitioning a rejected original claim? Sometimes they have to petition two and three times just to get the services they pay for!

These are our family members who have paid the monthly obligations for a plan they eventually lose or have to fight al the way up to the highest courts in order to have a medical procedure that is needed in order to save their life!

How many other insurance companies could stay in business if you had to petition to get your claim paid? Would auto insurance companies be able to stay in business if their policy was to auto-reject your claim every time a large payout were needed?

HECK NO!!

And these entities are already getting extremely large monthly payments not only from you but also your employers. It does absolutely no good to have your employers pool large groups of customers for these people if they do not follow through with the services when they are needed.

I do NOT think that allowing more privatization to take place in a an industry where allowing these business friends to skim government services for a profit is going to get our Medical system back into sustainable practices.

The Ryan Romney plan will look great on paper, sure it will look like it solves government budget problems, but all it does is set the entire industry up for failure. A failure that we won't be able to foresee until they hang more of US citizens out to dry.

There is a saying of "86 it" which means get rid of it, and that saying was coined for a reason. Everybody loved Reagan's plan but we didn't understand what those good on paper plans were really hiding until the crap hit the fan.

We are already fooled into believing that many heavily subsidized industries are really "free-markets" and we need to let them work trickle down and supply and demand. They should know from past experiences that manipulating any markets in order to shore up any industry will do nothing but bring the problem back with more inertia behind it.

And then where are those companies that we trusted with our tax revenues taken out of the hands of our school districts?

they're gone, see yah! oh and about your savings plans for all you longtime employees, yeah well, that's gone you know how the stock markets gets when you let the fox to guard the chicken pen.

To be concerned of the fate of the world is not bad, but bearing false witness is to not be
maillady
Posted: Monday, August 20, 2012 4:10:55 PM

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Are you a little mixed up?or is it me? It's probably me,but.....
martyg
Posted: Monday, August 20, 2012 4:37:25 PM
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you don't appear old enough to wipe your ass with those comments.

start by leaning how to use the word 'loose'. <so that we don't get stuck loosing our life savings>

and if you were born in the usa, then you should look to give up your citizenship and return to the sewer.
dusty
Posted: Monday, August 20, 2012 5:40:34 PM

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It's probably me Maillady

To be concerned of the fate of the world is not bad, but bearing false witness is to not be
dusty
Posted: Monday, August 20, 2012 5:43:30 PM

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What comments?

You must mean this post, yes, I am horrible at proofreading. But this is the political threads. I take it your Republican, or angry.

I sure was born here Marty G and thank you for that advise

To be concerned of the fate of the world is not bad, but bearing false witness is to not be
Truthseeker
Posted: Monday, August 20, 2012 6:15:59 PM

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Whatever you do, never let facts get in the way of your opinions. They might change your life forever. And you don't want to do that. Let's let government pay for everything until all the wealth is gone. Then we'll all be equal - and poor. Have you seen the movie "Hunger Games"? With a little less dramatization, THAT is the America that our sitting president wants to take us to: Everyone equal - and uniformly poor - EXCEPT for those in power.



Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself. Leo Tolstoy
excaelis
Posted: Monday, August 20, 2012 6:23:03 PM

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Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Just to ask a question from the neutral corner : Is this level of polarisation normal in U.S. political debate ? I just find it hard to believe that a group of intelligent people can have so little respect for each other's opinions that nearly every political topic that comes up here degenerates so quickly into totally adversarial invective.

It seems a shame that there appears to be so little willingness to listen and try to find some common ground.

Sanity is not statistical
dusty
Posted: Monday, August 20, 2012 6:49:43 PM

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That's one way to look at it Truthseeker, but I worked in the healthcare industry for seven years, and the profit margins or markup that facilities can charge for their services is ultra-slim. To the point where the only people able to run the actually healthcare facilities (hospitals, doctors offices, surgery center etc...) is becoming more and more consolidated to large non-profit organizations who run many hospitals.

Nearly all staff is overworked, near the edge of being run ragged, even doctors do not get paid as well relatively these days unless they work more than forty hours per week.

But the pharmaceutical companies, and the companies that sell diagnostic reagents and testing supplies have million dollar sales teams and the insurance companies have people making more than doctors and nurses while telling the doctors what procedures they can and cannot preform on their patients unless the patient will pay for it themselves.

The Drug companies budgets for advertising had grown by over 400% in less than 5 years a decade ago. It has now become normal to see a commercial for prescription drugs on TV.

Why?

A patient can't get those drugs without a prescription and the doctor won't prescribe something just because a patients wants to try it.

The United States has policies that protect name brand drugs for years longer than everyone else which prevents healthcare providers from using generic drugs. Maybe you heard of people going to Canada to get generics that they pay out of pocket for and they still pay much less than the name-brand with insurance.

No other country has had the price of healthcare skyrocket like it has here.

I don't see why a system that was never profitable without large amounts of tax payer money, should have that money given over to a private sector that knows how contort it so that they can turn profits big time.

I honestly do not see how anyone can still make claims that privatization is the way to go when it is clear all that will do is make it look like the budget has been magically fixed. But it will leaves a very important industry set for collapse and those responsible do not seem to care about changing anything.

I realize there is a lot of money at stake, and that these corporations have strong ties to political parties with an awful lot of sway.

But to let them run away with it like this to the point it will crash?

When I worked as a specialty testing technician I payed over $200 a month for my family of four to be fully covered and my employer paid almost $600

A MONTH

and we still had $10 and $20 copays to see the doctor. And trust me, those doctor's offices are NOT getting rich.

I understand there are opposing views to mine, they honestly do not have any valid points as to why, other than "So we'll just let big brother step in and run our lives"

and that argument carries no weight, the same as my proofreading sucks carries no weight in regards to the actual subject.

To be concerned of the fate of the world is not bad, but bearing false witness is to not be
dusty
Posted: Monday, August 20, 2012 6:57:52 PM

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In their defense Excaelis, I have been on a rampage last night and today. Had I not gone back and edited my comments, I probably would have gotten banned from the site.

And I do have a tendency to veer waaaaaay off topic, and really irritate the heck out of both sides of the fence.


To be concerned of the fate of the world is not bad, but bearing false witness is to not be
maillady
Posted: Monday, August 20, 2012 6:59:01 PM

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I am concerned with your use of the word "privatise". I do think that you have got it just "back assward".

excaelis
Posted: Monday, August 20, 2012 7:02:40 PM

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dusty wrote:
In their defense Excaelis, I have been on a rampage last night and today. Had I not gone back and edited my comments, I probably would have gotten banned from the site.



I wasn't just addressing ' them ', D. Angel

Sanity is not statistical
dusty
Posted: Monday, August 20, 2012 7:11:04 PM

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Spelling and grammar are my weakest disciplines. I would change it, but the original post is beyond the time frame given for editing.

I give you my word though I did not do so intentionally just to have my words read like finger nails across a chalkboard. I am aware though, writing on a whim and posting it without meeting the standards of everybody else's writing reflects poorly on me.

I can't blame anyone for experiencing my thoughts as painful.

To be concerned of the fate of the world is not bad, but bearing false witness is to not be
excaelis
Posted: Monday, August 20, 2012 7:41:18 PM

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Glad to hear you took the trouble to re-read and edit, D. Good general practice I find ; it does sometimes save us from ourselves !

Sanity is not statistical
HWNN1961
Posted: Monday, August 20, 2012 8:31:49 PM

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Joined: 2/13/2010
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Some goods and services are "public goods" Mainstream economists from the world over accept this.

The only place, and I mean the ONLY place where a small, vitriolic, extremist, purist minority which has literally made free markets into a golden calf is the conservative movement in the USA.

Everyone else knows it's pure bollocks.

"Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless, and do no wrong". (Knight's Oath, Kingdom of Heaven)
dusty
Posted: Tuesday, August 21, 2012 1:13:45 AM

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maybe you are referring to the comments I typed into the box, but never posted, just previewed and then deleted Excaelis?

Yeah, I guess those might have made a couple people slightly upset with me.


I agree with you HWNN, and the problem is that there are a lot of businesses that are for the most part, already out of business, they are just maintaining the facade that there are going to pull through or are in some serious denial. The problem isn't that there is not enough tax revenue collected, it's how it is allocated that is the problem. Both are state and federal government spend an awful lot of money fighting meth, when there is already a proven effective way to curb production: requiring ID to purchase cold medicine with ephedrine and pseudo-ephedrine. Oregon did it and it decimated the clandestine drug manufacturing. Remove access to the ingredients and they can't make it. The feds tried to implement a nation wide policy of requiring ID for OTC precusors, and the states rejected it. The spend hundreds of thousands, close to millions fighting it in ways we know don't work, and reject the one way that does.

What doesn't help the situation is allowing pharmaceutical companies market Amphetamine Salt. The active form of meth IS amphetamine once is is ingested into the body. There are so many pointless things we do and it drives me nuts as it seems like it is all talk. Nobody is willing to get jobs done, jobs the work, and I think it's because those who get paid to run in circles do not want their pointless industry to disappear.

Slowly, everything is becoming a racket, and they get all kinds pissed off if you point the obvious out to them. But damn is it ever hard to listen to them claim that something must be done, but aren't willing to do it.

To be concerned of the fate of the world is not bad, but bearing false witness is to not be
dusty
Posted: Tuesday, August 21, 2012 1:30:06 AM

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And a lot of the banking melt down fiasco causes were never even mentioned. As I see it, one of the major contributing factors to the barrage of defaulting of accounts, wasn't necessarily that they loaned money to people who were over extended.

It was the free reign the banks had in the fine print. Countless families were making it work and consuming just like the economists want. But when you have a family with ten thousand dollars of credit card debt at a rate of 10%, that suddenly jumps to 29.9% because they were late on one or two payments, or just barely went over their limit more than once, well the difference between $156/month payments and $326/month is the difference between sink or swim. And these families sunk.

Not to mention all of the under wraps scams they pulled. Like charges not being deducted for up to five working days on an accounts card purchases. They claim it is not within their control and that is a crock. But it does get bring in a a huge jump in profit, when such tactics produce landslides worth of "over their limit" accounts. And once the jack the rate up to the 29% they were allowed to leave it at the rates without giving the customers any goals or guidelines to meet to be able to bring the rate back down to the original rates.

Those kinds of details should be in writing with specific criteria, like X amount of months with no late payments and not going over budget and it gets reduced Y amount every x amount of months you remain in good standings.

And for the most part, nothing was ever done. Until we are allowed to be honest about the situations that got US here, we will never work our way out

To be concerned of the fate of the world is not bad, but bearing false witness is to not be
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