The Free Dictionary  
mailing list For webmasters
Welcome Guest Forum Search | Active Topics | Members

Democracy means simply the bludgeoning of the people by the people for the people. Options
Daemon
Posted: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 12:00:00 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/7/2009
Posts: 22,056
Neurons: 66,171
Location: Inside Farlex computers
Democracy means simply the bludgeoning of the people by the people for the people.

Oscar Wilde (1854-1900)
excaelis
Posted: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 6:24:43 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/30/2010
Posts: 10,981
Neurons: 32,652
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Applause Applause Applause

Sanity is not statistical
floyd
Posted: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 8:20:06 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 5/22/2011
Posts: 137
Neurons: 411
Location: United States
Human nature being what it is, seems you can't have any government without bludgeoning, despicable as bludgeoning is. But isn't democracy still a big step ahead? It's the best I've seen.

Matter of fact, I think Oscar Wilde's views are pathetic. But, then, I've mentioned that before . . .

Keep the faith!

floyd


“When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.”
floyd
Posted: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 10:36:21 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 5/22/2011
Posts: 137
Neurons: 411
Location: United States
Wait a minute. What was I thinking? d'oh!

I totally forgot all the shameful bludgeoning that Wilde experienced -- including gaol!

May I take back what I said about his views?

Sorry, friends,

floyd



“When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.”
johnshola
Posted: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 11:18:43 AM
Rank: Newbie

Joined: 4/18/2012
Posts: 1
Neurons: 3
Location: Nigeria
Well the so many nations are congested with the influx of egocentri nature, no wonder important policy always results in thwart
jcbarros
Posted: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 11:50:38 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 5/14/2010
Posts: 2,356
Neurons: 9,052
So long as the human nature is what it is, some bludgeoning here and there, is sometimes necessary. (Or at least advisably)
floccinaucinihilipilificatinator
Posted: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 4:40:51 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 2/1/2012
Posts: 57
Neurons: 171
Location: Germany
lol, bravo floyd, couldnt agree more, this quote is in a way the essence of misanthropy, moronic and/or evil

what is the alternative to democracy? a self-proclaimed elite deciding what is right? because the people are so foul and bad that they cannot do without this noble and enlightened elites judgement, in history wars werent started by the people, they were engineered by elites

democracy is simply the people governing themselves, why would that preclude a common conscience that limits the power of the people? its as if the idea of conscience and self-restrained is completely foreign to these people, who says that a people cannot have a conscience that denies bludgeoing people? you might as well say: people left to their own responsibility will only bludgeon other people, just silly

i really wonder where in the world are these evil total democracies without conscious and limitation of power (aka constitution), what great evil are these guys speaking up against???

no concept in politics is more natural, imperative and irrefutable than democracy
floccinaucinihilipilificatinator
Posted: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 4:50:04 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 2/1/2012
Posts: 57
Neurons: 171
Location: Germany
Quote:
Human nature being what it is, seems you can't have any government without bludgeoning, despicable as bludgeoning is.

not sure what you mean by human nature here, but im really really tired of head-hanging sighing invoking of "human nature", who says that human nature is bludgeoing people? i think this is a misanthropic common spread mainly by narcissitic elites who want to gloss over their own "human nature" and justify their own claim of power, you know we need to protect these dumb, evil masses from their own "human nature" with our superior reason and sensibility, elites like religion, governments or like wilde: intellectuals, what we forget is that in history it was usually elites manipulating and deceiving these masses to do evil things

humans do evil things, humans do a lot of great good things as well, do you think the "human nature" is evil?
excaelis
Posted: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 6:50:02 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/30/2010
Posts: 10,981
Neurons: 32,652
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Oh good Lord, it's a humorous remark. Dark, yes. Cynical, yes. But it wasn't intended as a manifesto. Wilde, in fact, had the reputation of being a very kind and compassionate man.

Sanity is not statistical
floccinaucinihilipilificatinator
Posted: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 9:20:39 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 2/1/2012
Posts: 57
Neurons: 171
Location: Germany
Quote:
Oh good Lord, it's a humorous remark. Dark, yes. Cynical, yes. But it wasn't intended as a manifesto. Wilde, in fact, had the reputation of being a very kind and compassionate man.

thats my point, these people are compassionate and smart, yet when it comes to politics they expose feeble minds not capable of standing on two legs let alone walk a few steps, as pointed out: the remark is not dark as much as it is plain stupid

but yeah, thanks to intellectuals and artists for fun little humorous remarks on politics, so we stay entertained and dont get our little heads hurt in thinking too much about the issues, strength through joy..

and sadly this nonsense has indeed become a manifesto for successful anti-democratic movements around the world, most famously the republican party of the usa, their name is based on the absurdism that we shouldnt have democracy but a republic where a little elite makes the rules the stupid mob cant make up itself, ask them, they will happily share their stock of funny little quotes of this kind, like "democracy is two wolfs and a sheep deciding whats for dinner", hahaha, the bliss of ignorance

if you still care more about etiquette than about the issues feel free to go ahead not replying..
MTC
Posted: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 10:48:02 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 1/18/2011
Posts: 2,790
Neurons: 8,606
The quotation can be better understood in context from Wilde's essay, "The Soul of Man under Socialism:"

"All modes of government are failures. Despotism is unjust to everybody, including the despot, who was probably made for better things. Oligarchies are unjust to the many, and ochlocracies [government by the masses] are unjust to the few. High hopes were once formed of democracy; but democracy means simply the bludgeoning of the people, by the people, for the people."

Wilde was an anarchist. In the essay he argued ironically that Socialism is the form of government most likely to lead to Individualism. Individualism in turn frees men to create Art. Art is the highest good in Wilde's view.

Jimbob
Posted: Thursday, April 19, 2012 4:58:56 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 1/26/2011
Posts: 162
Neurons: 486
Location: New Zealand
The Soul of Man Under Socialism : is an 1891 essay by Oscar Wilde (1854-1900)(book search)

Individualism, then, is what through Socialism we are to attain to. As a natural result the state must give up all idea of government. It must give it up because, as a wise man once said many centuries before Christ, there is such a thing as leaving mankind alone; there is no such thing as governing mankind. All modes of government are failures. Despotism is unjust to everybody, including the despot, who was probably made for better things. Oligarchies are unjust to the many, and ochlocracies are unjust to the few. High hopes were once formed of democracy; but democracy means simply the bludgeoning of the people by the people for the people. It has been found out. I must say that it was high time, for all authority is quite degrading. It degrades those who exercise it, and degrades those over whom it is exercised. When it is violently, grossly, and cruelly used, it produces a good effect, by creating, or at any rate bringing out, the spirit of revolt and individualism that is to kill it. When it is used with a certain amount of kindness, and accompanied by prizes and rewards, it is dreadfully demoralising. People, in that case, are less conscious of the horrible pressure that is being put on them, like petted animals, without ever realising that they are probably thinking other peoples thoughts, living by other peoples standards, wearing practically what one may call other people’s second-hand clothes, and never being themselves for a single moment. ‘He who would be free,’ say a fine thinker, ‘must not conform.’ And authority, by bringing people to conform, produces a very gross kind of over-fed barbarism amongst us.
``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````

One hundred and twenty one years from when Wilde wrote this essay, you kind of get the impression ‘no change’ is the order of the day. With Democracy having it’s roots firmly embedded in society, people say show me a system that will work better and then ‘no change’ once again. I must say that his writing appears very modern even by today’s standards. Wilde quite possibly may have been experiencing some anger towards the system and this shows perhaps in his choice of words, strange as they may seem to some. He certainly raises some serious thought provoking ideas regarding Individualism. I guess in some ways we are brought up to conform to a certain stereotypes as citizens. Funny that, sort of reminds me, ‘if you can’t beat them Join them’.
``````````````````````````````````````````````````

oligarchy (Oligarchies)
1. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) government by a small group of people
2. a state or organization so governed
3. a small body of individuals ruling such a state
4. Chiefly US a small clique of private citizens who exert a strong influence on government
[via Medieval Latin from Greek oligarkhia, from olígos few + -archy]

ochlocracy
n. pl. och·loc·ra·cies
Government by the masses; mob rule.

Despotism
1. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) the rule of a despot; arbitrary, absolute, or tyrannical government
2. arbitrary or tyrannical authority or behaviour

intimidate (bludgeon : See Synonyms at intimidate.)
1. to make timid or frightened; scare
2. to discourage, restrain, or silence illegally or unscrupulously, as by threats or blackmail

floccinaucinihilipilificatinator
Posted: Friday, April 20, 2012 10:25:11 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 2/1/2012
Posts: 57
Neurons: 171
Location: Germany
ochlocracy isnt rule by the masses, its rule by masses without conscience, the term postulates that a mass of people is incapable of having a conscience, and this is evidently false since every democracy in history had a conscience in form of some kind of consitution and laws

the term "mob-rule" alone is mysanthropic, then you have to call oligarchy misanthropist rule as well

despite the conscience (constitution etc.) and minority protection the "ochlocracy" might still be somewhat unjust to the few, yes, but thats better than to the many, its just nihilism to throw out the best system because its not perfect which will ultimatly leave the field to a worse system, and so it has in the world
excaelis
Posted: Saturday, April 21, 2012 11:00:10 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/30/2010
Posts: 10,981
Neurons: 32,652
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
I got nothing from the nihilists ! Nothing !

Sanity is not statistical
Users browsing this topic
Guest


Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Main Forum RSS : RSS
Forum Terms and Guidelines. Copyright © 2008-2017 Farlex, Inc. All rights reserved.