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There's none so blind as they that won't see. Options
Daemon
Posted: Friday, January 27, 2012 12:00:00 AM
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There's none so blind as they that won't see.

Jonathan Swift (1667-1745)
thar
Posted: Friday, January 27, 2012 12:44:00 AM

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this sounded wrong to me. I am sure I would hear and say

There's none so blind as those that will not see.

it seems to scan better and has more natural emphasis on the negative. As quoted above it both swallows the negative in a contraction and ends off balance. So I looked it up, and I am not the first person to think this. I think the language has improved a bit on Swift's aphorism.


from the phase finder discussion pages:
: The archives have "There are none so blind as those who will not see" http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/5/messages/1615.html:
: : : : Matthew 13:13
Therefore I speak to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand
: : : : Jeremiah 5:21
Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not:
: : : : Isaiah 6:9-10
And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear you indeed, but understand not; and see indeed, but perceive not.
Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.


: : : "Random House Dictionary of Popular Proverbs and Sayings" by Gregory Y. Titelman (Random House, New York, 1996). Mr. Titelman agrees that this saying has its roots in the Bible, specifically Jer. 5:21 (King James version): "Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not."

: : : "There are none so blind as those who will not see. The most deluded people are those who choose to ignore what they already know. The proverb has been traced back in English to 1546 (John Heywood), and resembles the Biblical verse quoted (above). In 1738, it was used by Jonathan Swift in his 'Polite Conversation,' and is first attested in the United States in the 1713 'Works of Thomas Chalkley'..."

Here are some citations arranged chronologically:

Who is so deafe, or so blynde, as is hee, That wilfully will nother hear nor see? (Heywood, _Dialogue of Proverbs_, 1546)
Who is blynder than he yt wyl nat se. (Boorde, _Breviary of Helthe_, 1547)
There is no manne . so blynd as he that will not see, nor so dull as he that wyll not vnderstande. (Cranmer, _Answer to Gardiner_, 1551)
But none so blind as he that will not see. (Heylin, _Examen Historicum_, 1659)
Who so blind as he that will not see? (Ray, _English proverbs_, 1670)
Ther's none so blind As those that will not see. (_Westminster Drollery_, 1671)
You know, there's none so blind as they that won't see. (Swift, _Polite Conversation_, 1738)
"None are so blind as those that won't see," whisper the wicked. (Sala, _Twice Round the Clock_, 1859)

I have to ignore Swift and go with the Westminster Drollery, which sounds like a compilation, which perhaps 'improved' the extant sayings. It says it was a collection of poems and songs - that might explain why it seems to be the one that scans best!



MTC
Posted: Friday, January 27, 2012 5:29:45 AM
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And then there's the corollary:

There's none so deaf as those who will not hear.

Prov. If you tell someone something that he or she does not want to know, he or she will not pay attention to you. I tried repeatedly to tell my supervisor about the low morale in our department, but there's none so deaf as those who will not hear.

See also: deaf, hear, none, those, who
McGraw-Hill Dictionary of American Idioms and Phrasal Verbs. © 2002 by The McGraw-Hill Companies,

....a restatement of words from the Bible , as noted above.


Epiphileon
Posted: Friday, January 27, 2012 6:15:07 AM

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Willful ignorance, a despicable behavior.

Question authority, before it questions you. How do you know, that you know, what you know?
percivalpecksniff
Posted: Friday, January 27, 2012 6:23:28 AM

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Thar, I think that is a moot point you make when you say:... 'I think the language has improved a bit on Swift's aphorism.'

If Swift were to come back would he agree? Language is of the day, nevermore has that been true than of our times. Language in our age changes so fast that it often leaves folk behind creating a sort of generation gap.

Yet when all said and done, how radical are the changes? We still understand Swift’s comment today as it was understood in his times, despite the passing of more than two- hundred- and- fifty years.

While it is sometimes good to point out the niceties of language the main point is: Is it understood? Has the message been conveyed?

Some folk who are not at ease with words nevertheless can, with great power, convey their feelings and intent.

I think 'changed' is a better word than 'improved.' But there we are, it is only my view.


'Do not argue with a fool, even if he pesters you to engage with him.'
percivalpecksniff
Posted: Friday, January 27, 2012 7:02:12 AM

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Since I am not bilingual Thar, and it seems you are, do you notice an equal emphasis of change in your native language, or is change largely driven by English?

'Do not argue with a fool, even if he pesters you to engage with him.'
pedro
Posted: Friday, January 27, 2012 7:21:28 AM

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I'love'apostrophe's

"All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them."-Galileo
thar
Posted: Friday, January 27, 2012 9:26:42 AM

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percivalpecksniff wrote:
Since I am not bilingual Thar, and it seems you are, do you notice an equal emphasis of change in your native language, or is change largely driven by English?


Icelandic has changed very little. That is why I so enjoy English, it is such a wild explosion of language. There is a great story-telling tradition here, and the spoken word is very important: not being slave to tradition but subconsciously aware of culturo-linguistic roots. And a speaking population of only 300,000 even now, not more than 50,000 for most of history, which is tiny compared to English. I think the linguistic consensus is that Icelandic is the most primitive Norse language, and Danish, Norwegian and Swedish have evolved away from that base, in the same time English has changed from Old to modern English.

In contrast I think English has exploded and evolved immensely, even over the last few hundred years, certainly since it started as Old English. I think it has not changed, so much as taken on so many new words (well, a whole new language in Norman French!), so that everything that could once be said in Norse or Saxon can now be said in many different ways, sometimes with the same meaning, more often each word has settled into a slightly different meaning. The phrases above are all understandable, just the spelling is non-standardised. But there were a lot of English writers spelling things in their own way: I think England has always been quite a literate language - maybe because of the existence of that famous English middle class, rather than a large population of serfdom. Interesting thought - maybe that is a driver of change, although not a big as conquest and exploration! In contrast, minus a few changes in pronounciation and standardisation of the script:
..Íslenska er það sama í átta hundruð ár
(Icelandic is the same for eight hundred years),

but English metamorphoses spectacularly!
jcbarros
Posted: Friday, January 27, 2012 10:17:59 AM
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He met a member of the Republican Party for sure.
thar
Posted: Friday, January 27, 2012 10:39:16 AM

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Swift is being surprisingly straight here - usually you can see he is just saying things to provoke a reaction!
percivalpecksniff
Posted: Friday, January 27, 2012 10:41:34 AM

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I valued your comments Thar, and agreed with them.

'Do not argue with a fool, even if he pesters you to engage with him.'
Jimbob
Posted: Friday, January 27, 2012 8:51:56 PM

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Jonathan Swift (1667-1745) born & died in Ireland.

Since his father, an Englishman who had settled in Ireland, died before his birth and his mother deserted him for some time,Swift was dependent upon an uncle for his education. He became a national hero of the Irish with his Drapier Letters (1724). Author of masterpiece Gulliver's Travels appeared in 1726, about a land inhabited by tiny people <3

Polite Conversation
Lady Smart.
Well, Ladies ; let us have cup of discourse to ourselves.
Lady Answ. What do you think of your friend, Sir John Spendall ?
Lady Smart. Why, Madam, 'tis happy for him, that his father was born before him.
Miss. They say, he makes a very ill husband to my lady.
Lady Answ. But he must be allow'd to be the fondest father in the world.
Lady Smart. Ay, Madam, that's true ; for they say, the devil is kind to his own.
Miss. I am told, my lady manages him to admiration.
Lady Smart. That I believe ; for she's is as cunning as a dead pig, but not half so honest.
Lady Answ. They say, she is quite the stanger to all the gallantries.
Lady Smart. Not at all ; but, you know there's none so blind as they that won't see.
Miss. O Madam, I am told, she watches him as a cat would watch a mouse.

note : substitute f =s book search text. example fhe's = she's
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Did you here about the Irishman whom his name was Paddy :) what about this one "Green" or this one "Lucky" one more "Clover" Anyway have get together on S/P/D 17 march.

Just a note to say have a look at later (first bit only) if get time.

Title: The Irish Guards
Author: Rudyard Kipling
1918
We're not so old in the Army List,
But we're not so young at our trade,
For we had the honour at Fontenoy
Of meeting the Guards' Brigade.
'Twas Lally, Dillon, Bulkeley, Clare,
And Lee that led us then,
And after a hundred and seventy years
We're fighting for France again!
Old Days! The wild geese are flighting,
Head to fhe sform as they faced if before !
For where there are Irish there's bound to be fighting,
And when there's no fighting, it's Ireland no more!
Ireland no more!
floyd
Posted: Friday, January 27, 2012 11:01:22 PM
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Thanks, fellow commentors. Your comments make me happy to be thinking and understanding.

I needed that!

floyd

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Jimi Hendrix
will
Posted: Saturday, January 28, 2012 5:13:00 PM
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Epiphileon wrote:
Willful ignorance, a despicable behavior.

Indeed.

Arguing with a creationist is like playing chess with a pigeon. It'll knock over the pieces, crap on the board, and fly back to it's flock to claim victory.
chuckc4th
Posted: Sunday, January 29, 2012 12:16:33 PM
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Reminds me of a similar quote "Don't bother me with the facts, I've already made up my mind." Not sure who said that one first, but exhibits similar closed mindedness.
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