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Why Summerian Extra Terrestrial Concept By Zecharia Sitchin is not popular reading. Options
A Star In The Morning
Posted: Thursday, January 19, 2012 10:48:01 PM

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Over 13 years ago I was introduced to the book titled The 12th Planet, I read it and found it interesting, not because it challenged Biblical foundation, but due to it's intriguing presentation of history millenium of years ago connected with beings from other planets that visited Earth. You might had heard of the mythical planet Nibiru, it is written and made famous in Sitchin's books.

The idea of alien beings coming to Earth to obtain metals such as Gold, which the movie Avatar has a similar concept and became a blockbuster movie, comes from Sitchin's ideas through his research.

I read several of his books, they present a situation whereby historical and religious concepts have hints or clues to aliens from other planets coming to Earth and having off springs with women of Earth.

His books have been translated into several languages, and his web pages indicates increasing popularity. Mr. Sitchin had passed away, but his ideas of alien civilizations is possibly still going to rake in money for the film industry or new authors.

While there is no physical evidence of space ships from milleniums ago, the idea of such a situation provides enthusiasm for space travel and exploration.

It does seem to come across as a cult following of reading Sitchin's books. However when you see how the film media portrays such ideas in movies like Avatar, the masses enjoy this movie theme.

Does this indicate that what was once a Cult following evolves into a main stream common idea and at it provides work and profits?

Do cults transform into Big Business?

For example do concepts of religious ideas over centuries one day becomes what you see as established employment for all sorts of professions?

The secret to success has shown that it started with Cults?

Well what Cults are there if any today, which you would thus say what success is there going to be in the future, what transformation can happen in the future due to a lack of Cults today!

Sitchin's web page is at http://www.sitchin.com/

Cheers.


Light of Night.
Marissa La Faye Isolde
Posted: Friday, January 20, 2012 12:16:35 AM
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I do not know about the 'cult' idea, but I have often entertained the idea of aliens first inhabiting the earth and mixing their DNA with the DNA of existing 'animals' or life forms that existed here, and creating the first man and woman. And that these aliens were thought of as 'gods'...This idea is not a new one I'm sure.
thar
Posted: Friday, January 20, 2012 4:57:15 AM

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cults, money, whatever,

the interesting bit here is the simplistic and self- absorbed vision of alien life.

Life may very well have come from elsewhere - there is only one 'here' and an awful lot of out 'there' so statistically speaking it is almost overwhelmingly likely to be alien.

But the idea that aliens came here and 'had offspring with the women' sounds like the sexual fantasy of a teenager with no friends. And very limited imagination.

Alien life is incorporated into our DNA in much more interesting ways than that. Cyanobacteria have developed to live inside plants and photosynthesise for them, in a symbiotic relationship.

Humans, like most organisms ( everything except the simplest prokaryotic bacteria) are only alive because of the alien life inside all our cells - mitochondria, which allow cellular respiration, and basically, all life!

these are not part of our DNA- they have their own DNA (mitochondrial DNA, which is not the same as the DNA in the nucleus of all your cells).

So, alien life forms have already merged with human life and live in a symbiotic relationship inside every cell in our body. This guy's cult science fiction may be OK for a formulaic blockbuster movie but a bit of basic biology is infinitely more fantastic and incredible.
pedro
Posted: Friday, January 20, 2012 8:35:48 AM

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This reminds me of part of my adolescent cult reading, The Teachings of Don Juan by Carlos Castaneda, in which the hero casually remarks to his pupil that 'most of the people you see around you are not really people '.

"Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon" Suzanne Ertz
Marissa La Faye Isolde
Posted: Friday, January 20, 2012 9:11:36 AM
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Good point Pedro.

To Pedro: Yes, the world of biology is fascinating. One doesn't need an alien to feel wonder struck with the amazement of life here on this planet alone. In my above post, I didn't mean that an already existing lady already existed. I meant that the aliens had the knowledge to extract DNA from a life form such as an animal and experiment with it and their own and created the first man. This first man could have been a type of robot that could think well enough to perform tasks assigned to it, and was biological so it could reproduce without the aliens always having to create new ones.:) Just a thought:) ...Or perhaps they hoped to create a perfect man.
Marissa La Faye Isolde
Posted: Friday, January 20, 2012 9:11:38 AM
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Good point Pedro.

To Pedro: Yes, the world of biology is fascinating. One doesn't need an alien to feel wonder struck with the amazement of life here on this planet alone. In my above post, I didn't mean that an already existing lady already existed. I meant that the aliens had the knowledge to extract DNA from a life form such as an animal and experiment with it and their own and created the first man. This first man could have been a type of robot that could think well enough to perform tasks assigned to it, and was biological so it could reproduce without the aliens always having to create new ones.:) Just a thought:) ...Or perhaps they hoped to create a perfect man.
almostfreebird
Posted: Friday, January 20, 2012 9:40:32 AM

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My favorite alien:


















thar
Posted: Friday, January 20, 2012 10:15:35 AM

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@marissa - sorry, I realise now my post could have sounded like it was denigrating yours, it wasn't, it was my response to the OP story, which struck me as a little anthropocentric. The point about alien contact is in the absence of proof there is no limit to imagination. Science can just remind us that we can be free to think further outside the box...

my favourite alien
(um, not at all anthropocentric? Maybe I should be a bit more creative...
...
better stop there, this could go on...

I think I have slightly different aliens from afb![ed, sorry, thought it was Pedro] Applause Luckily there are plenty to go around!
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Friday, January 20, 2012 10:19:45 AM

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A Star in the Morning asked:
Quote:
Does this indicate that what was once a Cult following evolves into a main stream common idea and at it provides work and profits?


A couple of thousand years ago, the primary religions in this bit of the world were multi-theistic (Roman, Egyptian). One group of people, following a charismatic leader, with an authoritarian God ("You shall hold no other god before me"), grew up.
They were considered to be extremist and their beliefs false.
They had sub-groups who lived unconventional life-styles.

Quote:
cult
n.
1.
a. A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
b. The followers of such a religion or sect.


Christianity is no longer considered a cult, and yes it is a main stream common idea and at it provides work and profits.

Though lovers be lost, love shall not, and Death shall have no dominion. - Dylan Thomas
Christine
Posted: Friday, January 20, 2012 10:32:10 AM

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Remember this guy?




I am carrying my heart~I am carrying my rhythm~I am carrying my prayers~But you can't kill my spirit~It's soaring and strong (Paula Cole's Me Lyrics)***We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We ARE spirtual beings having a human experience.(T.deChardin)***There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle. (Albert Einstein)



nowherenothere
Posted: Friday, January 20, 2012 11:35:45 AM

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Is Scientology based upon a similar premise or mythos? I've been told the 'religion' and dianetic philosophy has helped many people in their lives.

Forgiving is Love, Love is For Giving.
mindmaze
Posted: Friday, January 20, 2012 11:46:07 AM

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My favorite Aliens . . . because they have what it takes to survive in a hostile universe! (We are a little too weak and squishy)

<img src="http://www.canmag.com/images/front/movies20074/avpposter5.jpg" border="0">

Freedom is a state of mind.
Epiphileon
Posted: Friday, January 20, 2012 12:15:23 PM

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L. Ron Hubbard is the founder of dianetics.
Wikipedia wrote:

Hubbard has been quoted as telling an authors' convention in 1948, "Writing for a penny a word is ridiculous. If a man really wants to make a million dollars, the best way would be to start his own religion."[170][194][195]

170 ^ a b Methvin, Eugene H. (May 1990). "Scientology: Anatomy of a Frightening Cult". Reader's Digest. pp. 16.
194 Lawrence, Sara. (April 18, 2006) "The Secrets of Scientology" The Independent. Retrieved February 17, 2011.
195 Staff. (April 5, 1976). "Religion: A Sci-Fi Faith". Time. Retrieved February 17, 2011.


Question authority, before it questions you. How do you know, that you know, what you know?
thar
Posted: Friday, January 20, 2012 1:26:37 PM

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one man's cult is another man's religion.

but, there are some telltale danger signs to look out for that you are being lured into a cult:

1) they will try to take your money
2) they will tell you what to believe and how to live your life
3) they will give you a set of rules you must obey, and threaten you with dire punishments if you disobey
4) they will isolate you, and tell you that everyone not in the cult is wrong, doomed, or out to destroy you
5) they will employ standard brainwashing techniques such as repetetive drumming, chanting, singing, and chemical vapours
6) they will take your children and put them in special isolated classes where they can be brainwashed more effectively
7) a loud minority of clerics may preach that you should be killed if you try to leave the group
8) powerful cult members may use their authority to commit psychological, physical and sexual abuse, and the organisation will cover it up

so, now you know those simple rules to spot a dangerous cult, no-one will get hurt! Yep, one man's cult is another man's religion...

(please, read with a sense of humour, I do not want to dieSilenced )
remember, this is the science forum, you have to be nice. I will shut up now!


Aid-e
Posted: Friday, January 20, 2012 1:54:47 PM

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We say something like this here: "each head is a world" Whistle

"There are many good things to do, but not all of them matter most" D.F.U
Jeech
Posted: Friday, January 20, 2012 4:01:18 PM

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Thank you A Star In The Morning, great topic indeed!

I thought at first that you are another ordinary brainwashed "cult." The frequintly dibbling of thought-provoking questionairs of yours has change my mind.

Thank you for the link also.

I have recently been involved into Dianetics. They don't really challenge your religion but the cognatic thoughts, stimulating toward the desired level of the state of your mind. I really didn't feel ashamed of being brainwashed for the purpose - the "alienisation" of the self.

*It's wonderful to know that all languages are Greek if not understood.*
GeorgeV
Posted: Friday, January 20, 2012 5:34:04 PM

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Summerians - calculating and seasonal.

Brain-washing starts in the cradle. - Arthur Koestler
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Friday, January 20, 2012 5:35:17 PM

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Epiphileon wrote:.

Quote:
L. Ron Hubbard is the founder of dianetics.
Wikipedia wrote:
Hubbard has been quoted as telling an authors' convention in 1948, "Writing for a penny a word is ridiculous. If a man really wants to make a million dollars, the best way would be to start his own religion."


You missed the other 6 pages of data in Wikipedia

nowherenothere - the answer to your question is "No - Scientology does not have a similar premise."

Thank you thar - that could almost be an English sense of humour! Applause

Though lovers be lost, love shall not, and Death shall have no dominion. - Dylan Thomas
Jyrkkä Jätkä
Posted: Friday, January 20, 2012 5:54:18 PM

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Never heard of Nibiru,
but I truly have some affection to a certain Sumerian girl called Ninkasi.


I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
Christine
Posted: Friday, January 20, 2012 6:13:46 PM

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for mindmaze

I am carrying my heart~I am carrying my rhythm~I am carrying my prayers~But you can't kill my spirit~It's soaring and strong (Paula Cole's Me Lyrics)***We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We ARE spirtual beings having a human experience.(T.deChardin)***There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle. (Albert Einstein)



almostfreebird
Posted: Friday, January 20, 2012 8:34:02 PM

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Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Friday, January 20, 2012 8:58:09 PM

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Thanks Christine - now I can see what he meant about them not being weak and squishy!

As to the original poster's question of the concept of aliens coming to Earth and breeding with humans, it seems to be quite recent.
The early stories of aliens had them being very inhuman - Jules Verne's 'insectoid' Lunar race, HG Wells' unseen, but definitely not humaniform, Martians.

The earliest serious mention of humanoid aliens that I can remember was from Erich von Däniken, which was around 1960, I think. Velikovski's "scientific explanation of myths and religious writings" was a few years before that, but didn't mention aliens.

There could be some truth in both - and in the concept of organic material from space somehow managing to land on Earth on a meteorite without being sterilised by heat, - "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." However 'proof' of these depends on interpretations of insufficient evidence.
We don't have access to the hangar in the desert in Area 51, or the X-Files, which (of course) would prove everything.

I suppose there has to be a balance between "I believe nothing I've not seen with my own eyes" and "He's a scientist/priest/expert so he must be right."

Quote:
Give every man thy ear, but few thy voice;
Take each man's censure, but reserve thy judgment.
...
This above all — to thine own self be true;
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Shakespeare - Hamlet, Scene iii

Though lovers be lost, love shall not, and Death shall have no dominion. - Dylan Thomas
mindmaze
Posted: Saturday, January 21, 2012 10:17:42 AM

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Thanks Christine! This is all alien to meDancing

Freedom is a state of mind.
thar
Posted: Sunday, January 22, 2012 8:21:59 AM

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Drag0nspeaker wrote:

As to the original poster's question of the concept of aliens coming to Earth and breeding with humans, it seems to be quite recent.
The early stories of aliens had them being very inhuman - Jules Verne's 'insectoid' Lunar race, HG Wells' unseen, but definitely not humaniform, Martians.

The earliest serious mention of humanoid aliens that I can remember was from Erich von Däniken, which was around 1960, I think. Velikovski's "scientific explanation of myths and religious writings" was a few years before that, but didn't mention aliens.


I know nothing about science fiction literature, but my first thought on reading this was that I am sure humanoid aliens were around in the fifties - then I realised I am thinking of film, not literature. But what if there is a connection? When you are writing, or even illustrating, then your aliens can be anything your imagination can conceive. But to make a film, especially if you want your aliens to interact, and with primitive special effects, they pretty much had to be humanoid - what you could stick on a actor. So did a generation grow up with a more limited concept of aliens because of our own modern technology of film?....And now, with modern special effects, we now have more diversely-imagined aliens?

Or was it the crisis of confidence in humanity from all the world-ending crap happening in the world in the 50's and 60's, that lead to a need for more connection, a feeling that there were others like us out there and our problems were not unique?
Epiphileon
Posted: Sunday, January 22, 2012 8:42:35 AM

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thar wrote:
Or was it the crisis of confidence in humanity from all the world-ending crap happening in the world in the 50's and 60's, that lead to a need for more connection, a feeling that there were others like us out there and our problems were not unique?


Fascinating hypothesis Thar, and one that I think has merit. I know that Roddenberry's original Star Trek, made great use of this concept.

Question authority, before it questions you. How do you know, that you know, what you know?
Jeech
Posted: Sunday, January 22, 2012 9:10:14 AM

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So, the concept of aliens is just a "scientific myth" unlike the archaic concepts of ghosts and jins?

Aliens sounds far profitable than those of old fashioned ghosts. ;-)

Anyways, the concept Alien is welcomed with quite a global touch.

Thanks to the pop culture.

*It's wonderful to know that all languages are Greek if not understood.*
HWNN1961
Posted: Sunday, January 22, 2012 11:20:02 AM

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It is all speculation in the absence of anything like definitive proof. I keep an open mind:


Bigfoot,
Yeti,
Loch Ness Monster,

may well exist in some form.


Aliens,

almost certainly do exist somewhere in the universe. But, the creator may have purposely isolated Her children using the unshakable bonds of distance and time. Or, some civilizations may have unlocked secrets of physics that have allowed them to conquer the void.

In any event, there is no proof.

So, we are left with speculation and the imagination can take flight. It's entirely possible that the ancients let theirs take flight in writings on clay tablets, drawings on rocks, and on their monuments.

"Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless, and do no wrong". (Knight's Oath, Kingdom of Heaven)
FounDit
Posted: Sunday, January 22, 2012 11:28:28 AM

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Epiphileon wrote:
thar wrote:
Or was it the crisis of confidence in humanity from all the world-ending crap happening in the world in the 50's and 60's, that lead to a need for more connection, a feeling that there were others like us out there and our problems were not unique?


Fascinating hypothesis Thar, and one that I think has merit. I know that Roddenberry's original Star Trek, made great use of this concept.



It seems with each new leap humans make, each new frontier we open, we are compelled to color it with our deepest desires and fears. Either it will destroy us in horrific ways (Alien), or open to us fanciful connections with ethereal creatures who will love us dearly (The Abyss). We are, indeed, simply children in large bodies.








A great many people will think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices. ~ William James ~
dusty
Posted: Sunday, April 29, 2012 8:09:09 PM

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Drag0nspeaker wrote:
A Star in the Morning asked:
Quote:
Does this indicate that what was once a Cult following evolves into a main stream common idea and at it provides work and profits?


A couple of thousand years ago, the primary religions in this bit of the world were multi-theistic (Roman, Egyptian). One group of people, following a charismatic leader, with an authoritarian God ("You shall hold no other god before me"), grew up.
They were considered to be extremist and their beliefs false.
They had sub-groups who lived unconventional life-styles.

Quote:
cult
n.
1.
a. A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
b. The followers of such a religion or sect.


Christianity is no longer considered a cult, and yes it is a main stream common idea and at it provides work and profits.


An authoritarian God is definitely a theme that Christianity has adopted and accepted and has lasted into these current days. But there are so many ways that seem to speak of secrets. And after myself trying to find answers to etymology and accurate history has been extremely frustrating. What is by far the most frustrating is that every place there is a very definite dead end, or outright false records, it is as if there is a team of talented people, all with the authority to certify anything that any known actual authority can give the stamp of approval.

So if the intention was to do away with a chaotic mess where a person would be hard pressed to know what is more accurate and what is less, I can certainly understand how and why a group of leaders would decide to front a one and only one system.

But as for life in the physical world, and having to do with tangible objects, it also makes sense. To me and my beliefs ( which are anything but traditional with not only religion, but also psychology and fringe science) I believe (because of my understanding of the forces of gravity, which I will freely admit is not that I know of accepted by professional which are currently considered authoritative) I believe that every Celestial Body can orbit only one object at a time.

I know that there was a quick blurb mentioned somewhere that researchers claimed to have found a planet that is in orbit around two stars. I cannot accept their conclusion due to my views on how gravity exerts force on an object.

It is possible, from my point of view, that what turned into an authoritative God saying my way or the highway, could have been very easily a misconstrued assertion that the Sun is the ONLY Celestial Body that our planet is revolving around. If I knew more about linguistics I might even be able to link it's reason to the statement "ONLY BEGOTTEN SON"

But I cannot, and I cannot begin to express my disappointment that there have not been historical records that were rescued from the Libraries of Alexandria revealed by now. For surely in those days the words "taken by surprise" had slightly different meaning, just as all words do according to context.

I say this because it is only lightening that seems to come out of nowhere, and is finished with delivering it's light by the time it is even noticed.

But if an entire library got torched, unless everyone there was in agreement that the records should be destroyed, I would think that somebody was able to save what they thought may be the most important records.

I know of quite a few people who would be comforted if records brought to light that the message was something akin to our planet only revolving around one Celestial Star and only one. So that people like the folks at NASA could understand orbits, gravity, and foundation of such laws rather than a God who would not accept all right answers to a test and not just one right answer.

Although it could be claimed that his Son was the only way to discern any possible right answer, and still be considered true, but only if the person who made such a claim was not trying to "trip up" or otherwise confuse those who are trying to learn.



Memory without recognizing the familiar member, is not necessarily re-membering (5/19/2012)
excaelis
Posted: Sunday, April 29, 2012 8:43:36 PM

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I am my own favourite alien.

Sanity is not statistical
thar
Posted: Monday, April 30, 2012 12:59:59 AM

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dusty - your linguistic prayers were answered 40 years ago....

Star Trek - Total Brotherhood Angel
rogermue
Posted: Monday, April 30, 2012 1:37:31 AM

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Zecharia Sitchin - Erich von Däniken - Bible stories - and old Indian literature

I don't know the author Sitchin but when I read the opening post it reminded me of Däniken's books, in which he advocates the idea of extraterrestial aliens who had contact and even sexual contact with human beings.
At a time I was fascinated by Däniken's books and I read almost all of them. I liked his unconventional ideas even if I don't take everything at face value.

Another curious fact is that the Bible has passages where a similar topic is hinted at. I don't know at the moment where it is in the Bible, but the Bible talks of 'God's sons and human sons' and that the God's sons mixed with human daughters.
Though I consulted some Bible dictionaries I could never find out what exactly is meant by 'God's sons'. It seems as if the Bible talks of extraterrestial contact with Earth.

Däniken shows in his books that old Indian literature is full of such stories and of the feats of the Extraterrestials.

Information about Däniken


Engraving of a sky vehicle. Old Chinese.
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