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Occupy Wall Street: What do you think? Options
abcxyz
Posted: Monday, October 17, 2011 1:05:15 PM

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What do you think of the 'Occupy' movements that are rapidly spreading all over US and Europe and catching up in South Africa and Asia? Is it happening in your home city/town/country? Do you support it? Will you join it?

In this world there is no literate population that is poor and no illiterate population that is other than poor. - J.K.Galbraith
nowherenothere
Posted: Monday, October 17, 2011 1:08:33 PM

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Irregardless of my personal thoughts and concerns my opinion is that the 'occupy movements' are obviously indicative of many peoples frustration and disapproval with the current global economy and political situation.



Forgiving is Love, Love is For Giving.
leonAzul
Posted: Monday, October 17, 2011 1:30:13 PM

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My opinion is that they are mostly rubbish and counter-productive. Compelling local law enforcement agencies to take sides against one is rarely a winning strategy.

"Make it go away, Mrs Whatsit," he whispered. "Make it go away. It's evil."
Seeker
Posted: Monday, October 17, 2011 1:41:46 PM
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I think it's about time "we the people" woke up and make their wishes and concerns heard. I find it very interesting and fascinating that it has spread across the world. I am surprised at some of the places where it has taken root. More power to OWS.
jmacann
Posted: Monday, October 17, 2011 2:06:21 PM
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Daydreaming? Wish you will overcome. Good luck.
Best.
Margarit Bamllari
Posted: Monday, October 17, 2011 4:18:36 PM

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Today is one month anniversary of OWS and they have raised so far 300,000 dollars from donations.

They don't have leaders and a political agenda; nor do they have goals and demands.

The question is what can they achieve while protesting over anger toward disparity of 99 to 1.

Against all adds the 99-ers will lose again.


STRENGTH IS BUILT FROM ONES FAILURES NOT FROM ONES SUCCESSES –COCO CHANEL
Epiphileon
Posted: Monday, October 17, 2011 4:35:38 PM

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Mr. Wizard, the way-back machine please.
Set it for 1969




Question authority. How do you know, that you know, what you know?
Peaceward
Posted: Monday, October 17, 2011 5:10:50 PM
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Actually "occupy movements" last a long long time already since stone age yet they just go on after break

What goes around, comes around.
wolfepride
Posted: Monday, October 17, 2011 6:19:40 PM
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I agree that it is about time the people (I speak only of the United States as I am a resident and am familiar with the issues)began to demand an end to the status quo. Unfortunately I believe that they are only targeting part of the problem. I believe in capitalism. I do not, however, believe in abuse of power. There is an excess of abuse in both corporate America and in politics. How can one bash BofA executives for misusing taxpayers dollars and not blame the politicians that gave it to them with basically no restrictions? Think The problem to begin with is that they mismanaged the money they had, so it's seems rather illogical to just give them billions more. That's bad policy. And the politicians are to blame for that. It's easy to get mad at people because they have so much when one is struggling to survive. But it is not right to blame every corporation and every executive of every corporation for your woes. The president of McDonald's, for example, is not to blame for the fact that my hours just got cut in half. In fact, I could go down to McDonald's and probably get a job right now, but the fact that most of us (myself included)won't do that until we are at the desperate stage (if at all), makes the occupy wall street movement less effective. Americans are greedy, we want things we can't afford, we want free health care, free higher education, free housing, and we don't want to pay higher taxes. In fact, we want the billionaires and millionaires to pay for it all. We are so spoiled compared to the struggles that people in other countries go through. I watched my mother work three jobs to raise three kids and never accept a government handout. Sure things were rough, but we became stronger for it. We all grew up to work hard and do fairly well. We paid for our own college by working several jobs, paid our bills, and yes we all give back to our community through volunteering and donations. I have been very disappointed in some of the comments I've heard coming out the crowd because the majority of them cannot speak intelligently about the "cause" they are fighting for. No one offers details showing how corporate America is the only one to blame for our economic failure. Ignorance is a dangerous weapon, especially when fueled by pent up emotions.
leonAzul
Posted: Monday, October 17, 2011 6:26:05 PM

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wolfepride wrote:
I agree that it is about time the people (I speak only of the United States as I am a resident and am familiar with the issues)began to demand an end to the status quo. Unfortunately I believe that they are only targeting part of the problem. I believe in capitalism. I do not, however, believe in abuse of power. There is an excess of abuse in both corporate America and in politics. How can one bash BofA executives for misusing taxpayers dollars and not blame the politicians that gave it to them with basically no restrictions? Think The problem to begin with is that they mismanaged the money they had, so it's seems rather illogical to just give them billions more. That's bad policy. And the politicians are to blame for that. It's easy to get mad at people because they have so much when one is struggling to survive. But it is not right to blame every corporation and every executive of every corporation for your woes. The president of McDonald's, for example, is not to blame for the fact that my hours just got cut in half. In fact, I could go down to McDonald's and probably get a job right now, but the fact that most of us (myself included)won't do that until we are at the desperate stage (if at all), makes the occupy wall street movement less effective. Americans are greedy, we want things we can't afford, we want free health care, free higher education, free housing, and we don't want to pay higher taxes. In fact, we want the billionaires and millionaires to pay for it all. We are so spoiled compared to the struggles that people in other countries go through. I watched my mother work three jobs to raise three kids and never accept a government handout. Sure things were rough, but we became stronger for it. We all grew up to work hard and do fairly well. We paid for our own college by working several jobs, paid our bills, and yes we all give back to our community through volunteering and donations. I have been very disappointed in some of the comments I've heard coming out the crowd because the majority of them cannot speak intelligently about the "cause" they are fighting for. No one offers details showing how corporate America is the only one to blame for our economic failure. Ignorance is a dangerous weapon, especially when fueled by pent up emotions.


tl;dr
I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore.

Now get off my lawn.

"Make it go away, Mrs Whatsit," he whispered. "Make it go away. It's evil."
leonAzul
Posted: Monday, October 17, 2011 6:37:31 PM

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Margarit Bamllari wrote:
Today is one month anniversary of OWS and they have raised so far 300,000 dollars from donations.

They don't have leaders and a political agenda; nor do they have goals and demands.


Here is the saddest thing of all. If they don't have leaders with an agenda, then who is collecting the money? It is a handful of con artists preying on truly desperate and vulnerable people, taking what little they have left.

I am aware that in New York City, at least, there is a core group with specific grievances concerning very publicly made promises by certain corporations to provide community assistance that have not been fulfilled. These are targeted actions directed against specific agents. Most of the others are mere copy-cats looking to boost their self-importance in the mass media and line their pockets with other people's money.

"Make it go away, Mrs Whatsit," he whispered. "Make it go away. It's evil."
leonAzul
Posted: Monday, October 17, 2011 6:53:34 PM

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Epiphileon wrote:
Mr. Wizard, the way-back machine please.
Set it for 1969




"But Sherman, you can't get there from here, you got to go over there first."

"Make it go away, Mrs Whatsit," he whispered. "Make it go away. It's evil."
TL Hobs
Posted: Monday, October 17, 2011 8:23:28 PM

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Location: Kenai, Alaska, United States


The movement has even caught on in the remote village of Bethel, AK



"When you don't know where you are going, you have to stick together just in case someone gets there." - Ken Kesey
PJL
Posted: Monday, October 17, 2011 8:56:16 PM
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I agree that the 99% have many reasons for concern, so I'm in favor of the protests. I do, however, believe that it is past time for we of the 99% start coming up with some viable suggestions for change. First, I believe that every "occupier" should be registered to vote and should agree to vote in federal, state and local elections. The political problems will not go away unless we have changes in the people legislating many of the problems. Next, the protesters need to work on the state level to enact serious term limits on Congress and ignore the pleas that we in this state have to keep this senator or that representative in office because he heads some important committee that can really help people in our state. If the corporations aren't going to gain anything by funding a candidate's reelection campaign, they may be forced to use the money for other things, like hiring workers at a fair wage.

Here endeth the rant for the day.
wolfepride
Posted: Monday, October 17, 2011 9:50:39 PM
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PJL, I concur--term limits and get salaries and pensions of government employees back in line. Remove the temptation of greed and celebrity status. People should be mad--mad as HEL_!
GabhSigenod
Posted: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 7:37:00 AM

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'tis a long journey between screams and solutions.

Mise, tá mé lán de dea-fhortún.
Jyrkkä Jätkä
Posted: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 7:56:24 AM

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GabhSigenod wrote:
'tis a long journey between screams and solutions.


It's a Long Way to Tipperary


In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
leonAzul
Posted: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 8:56:56 AM

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GabhSigenod wrote:
'tis a long journey between screams and solutions.


'tis but a short leap from the frying pan to the fire.

"Make it go away, Mrs Whatsit," he whispered. "Make it go away. It's evil."
NancyLee
Posted: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 11:20:30 AM

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"Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world. Unreasonable
people attempt to adapt the world to themselves. All progress,
therefore, depends on unreasonable people." George Bernard Shaw

Somehow, when I read this, it seemed appropriate.

Learning is its own reward, and it's fun too!
boneyfriend
Posted: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 12:06:09 PM

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I support the protesters. There is one in my town. I haven't joined them yet but I honk every time I ride by the capitol. I believe that the protesters are tired of the disparity of incomes, the dissolution of the middle class, and the recession or depression whatever you choose to call it. Times are hard.

There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face. Ben Williams
abcxyz
Posted: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 2:12:42 PM

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Thank you all for your comments.


In this world there is no literate population that is poor and no illiterate population that is other than poor. - J.K.Galbraith
NancyLee
Posted: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 2:29:52 PM

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abcxyz wrote:
Thank you all for your comments.



Do you have any opinion or comment? Seems only fair that you share a little...?Eh?







Learning is its own reward, and it's fun too!
Margarit Bamllari
Posted: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 3:39:24 PM

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abcxyz wrote:
Thank you all for your comments.


abc,

Probably you know a little more than us about OWS and all unrests in other countries.

If yes, share it with us.


STRENGTH IS BUILT FROM ONES FAILURES NOT FROM ONES SUCCESSES –COCO CHANEL
Truthseeker
Posted: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 6:06:19 PM

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Well. The Democrat-Socialist-Nazi-Communist Parties are all in support of this protest. That alone speaks volumes.


Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself. Leo Tolstoy
GabhSigenod
Posted: Wednesday, October 19, 2011 8:44:26 AM

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A very appropriate quote, thanks NancyLee.

"Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world. Unreasonable
people attempt to adapt the world to themselves. All progress,
therefore, depends on unreasonable people." George Bernard Shaw

Mise, tá mé lán de dea-fhortún.
abcxyz
Posted: Wednesday, October 19, 2011 11:23:18 AM

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NancyLee wrote:
abcxyz wrote:
Thank you all for your comments.



Do you have any opinion or comment? Seems only fair that you share a little...?Eh?

I created this thread in order to have a better view on this topic. So there's nothing particularly unfair about my not commenting on a topic that I have a hazy idea about, given the fact that it's your home country, not mine, where the protests are currently taking place.

If you're really interested in my opinion about the American Occupy movement, which I do not mind sharing at all, then here it is: the protesters seem to mostly belong to the economically disadvantageous class with elements from radical left(not the democrats). They do not have a fixed set of demands yet, nor a fixed set of leaders - as to the reason I have 2 guesses, 1. the organizers want the support of all who are dissatisfied with the present system to escalate the protests to the point where a revolution can happen; 2. the movement has been/is being hijacked by elements who want to control the protests so that it does not become anything radical and harm the interests of some in the "1%".

In this world there is no literate population that is poor and no illiterate population that is other than poor. - J.K.Galbraith
NancyLee
Posted: Wednesday, October 19, 2011 3:04:37 PM

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abcxyz wrote:
NancyLee wrote:
abcxyz wrote:
Thank you all for your comments.



Do you have any opinion or comment? Seems only fair that you share a little...?Eh?

I created this thread in order to have a better view on this topic. So there's nothing particularly unfair about my not commenting on a topic that I have a hazy idea about, given the fact that it's your home country, not mine, where the protests are currently taking place.

If you're really interested in my opinion about the American Occupy movement, which I do not mind sharing at all, then here it is: the protesters seem to mostly belong to the economically disadvantageous class with elements from radical left(not the democrats). They do not have a fixed set of demands yet, nor a fixed set of leaders - as to the reason I have 2 guesses, 1. the organizers want the support of all who are dissatisfied with the present system to escalate the protests to the point where a revolution can happen; 2. the movement has been/is being hijacked by elements who want to control the protests so that it does not become anything radical and harm the interests of some in the "1%".


Thank you abcxyz! I appreciate your response to my "nudge". Very interesting thoughts.

the protesters seem to mostly belong to the economically disadvantageous class with elements from radical left(not the democrats)

Probably people from many "classes" all of whom believe the economic "system" has broken and is hurting them and others. Basically, all of them believe change is necessary and a strong message is necessary to communicate this.

1. the organizers want the support of all who are dissatisfied with the present system to escalate the protests to the point where a revolution can happen.

I would bet very few use the word "revolution" in their minds because they believe change can be driven by strong communication and our political system can respond to their message and define the change necessary to make them happy. Not sure they are right, but we'll see...

2. the movement has been/is being hijacked by elements who want to control the protests so that it does not become anything radical and harm the interests of some in the "1%".

As to that, I am not sure, but some of the people getting involved seem to want the show to continue and to do this they want to pay for cleanup so no one goes to jail for littering....

Wow! Your comments really made me define mine. Interesting.. Thanks Think

More, and better, thoughts greatly welcome everyone! Thanks, NancyLee



Learning is its own reward, and it's fun too!
Teluu
Posted: Wednesday, October 19, 2011 5:23:33 PM

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This world definitely needs some pretty big changes: a political, cultural and moral revolution! That is why some support all enthusiasts who are at this moment gathering across US and many parts of the world! They protest against the greed of multinational companies, global warming, social inequality and high unemployment. Reference: Protest Ocupy Wall Street

I'm a free minded person!
NancyLee
Posted: Wednesday, October 19, 2011 5:33:31 PM

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Congress has bailed on its responsibility to regulate interstate commerce as well as its responsibility to regulate the post office. Quick fix artists who have lost their touch.

A somewhat appropriate saying defining the underlying problem:

He who hogs, chokes. (If nothing else, pithy.)




Learning is its own reward, and it's fun too!
Geeman
Posted: Thursday, October 20, 2011 5:41:47 PM

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abcxyz wrote:
What do you think of the 'Occupy' movements that are rapidly spreading all over US and Europe and catching up in South Africa and Asia? Is it happening in your home city/town/country? Do you support it? Will you join it?

Well, I understand the motivation, but so far the whole process seems to lack both focus and authority. Without at least one there's not really much hope of accomplishing anything. That could change should there be some sort of leadership that comes out of the nowhere, but I don't expect that to happen.
AcerbicRN
Posted: Friday, October 28, 2011 9:17:19 PM

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Given I am in the State of the Brotherhood of Koch, formerly known as Wisconsin, where people FINALLY and AT LAST got off their complacent "assets" and hit the streets en masse, in the dead of winter no less, to protest our new dictator and his undemocratic practices last early this year, I have nothing but admiration and support for each and every person of every party and belief who is protesting in the world-wide Occupy Wall Street movement. Wisconsin, small as we are, flyover state that we are, and as hard as we are for most 'coasties' to locate on a map, has ever been a cutting edge state when it comes to science and politics...often for the good and sometimes to our chagrin, given we are, unfortunately, the birthplace of the GOP AND Joseph McCarthy.

My greatest concern is that these protests remain PEACEFUL at all costs, no matter what tactics Herr Rove, et al use in attempts to goad us into violence. As in the 60's (before my time, but I am a student of history and military tactics, which DO apply here) it is only a matter of time before agitators in increasing numbers will infiltrate the group, working their way into leadership positions, which is why I also admire the fact that leadership is for all intents and purposes nonexistent in these groups. It MUST stay that way, much as the freaking media and mainstream politicos scream that we must organize behind a leader with a clear agenda. Power corrupts, and even the most well meaning of people can be corrupted.

As I write this my heart, best wishes and utter respect go out to Scott Olsen, an Iraq Veteran who is recovering in the hospital after being injured without cause during an Occupy Wall Street protest in Oakland for which the Mayor was forced to publicly apologize. http://occupywallst.org/article/tonight-vigils-across-america-scott-olsen-marine-v/ (I am a liberal veteran also--so much for the all military people are republicans myth!) Olsen suffered askull fracture, caused by a blow to the head with a bottle of some kind, and he is recovering from this assault with amazing speed. THAT is the power of collective positive thought! As a professional nurse I have seen it work too many times to doubt it... in the form of prayers, if you prefer, and in other forms of collective well wishes in large numbers. It's amazing. That is why I believe this movement CAN ultimately prevail if we stick to it despite all the tactics they try to use against us.

I am currently involved in recalling Governor Scott Walker from our state, but it's all really part of the same thing, because he has declared major war on the workers and unions, the poor and middle class in Wisconsin. OWS and the recall effort are working to put the power back into the hands of the people where it belongs, as Wiscosin's former Senator Feingold tried to do years ago. His mistake was in working with someone as oily as that disgusting "King of Spin" John McCain, who so weakened McCain/Feingold campaign finance reform that it was neutered on arrival. And of course Feingold lost his senate seat to a Koch brothers toady too.

No matter what the one percenters think though, never underestimate the power of we the people! The Koch brothers may have billions of dollars but WE have something far more precious, the power of feet on the ground now and the resolve of a righteous cause. We shall prevail! We are the 99!











Be not afraid to live. ~Henry James~
HWNN1961
Posted: Friday, October 28, 2011 9:18:56 PM

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Truthseeker wrote:
Well. The Democrat-Socialist-Nazi-Communist Parties are all in support of this protest. That alone speaks volumes.



You do realize that you are a living cartoon....right?

"Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless, and do no wrong". (Knight's Oath, Kingdom of Heaven)
HWNN1961
Posted: Friday, October 28, 2011 9:21:11 PM

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Direct action is the purist form of democracy. I'm all for them.


I believe the Tea Party was fond of mentioning Jefferson's philosophy on revolution:

To paraphrase: that the tree of liberty must periodically be fertilized with the blood of patriots and of dictators.....

Damned inconvienient when the other side takes up that refrain....

"Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless, and do no wrong". (Knight's Oath, Kingdom of Heaven)
AcerbicRN
Posted: Friday, October 28, 2011 9:27:38 PM

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Geeman wrote:
abcxyz wrote:
What do you think of the 'Occupy' movements that are rapidly spreading all over US and Europe and catching up in South Africa and Asia? Is it happening in your home city/town/country? Do you support it? Will you join it?

Well, I understand the motivation, but so far the whole process seems to lack both focus and authority. Without at least one there's not really much hope of accomplishing anything. That could change should there be some sort of leadership that comes out of the nowhere, but I don't expect that to happen.


Our AUTHORITY comes from the CONSTITUTION of the UNITED STATES. I think that is high enough, don't you? Authority doesn't always mean dollar signs or a badge, although many of the people we are protesting FOR who are forced to act AGAINST us wear them! It's the very lack of a single leader that gives the movement it's organic strength! We are a TRUE GRASSROOTS MOVEMENT...not like the tea-baggers who were taken over by the republican party, and hopelessly corrupted by it. People from all parties, all background, all income levels, all ages, professions, beliefs, races and walks of life have come together with their only common thread the strong belief that is is time for the ONE PERCENT to stop running OUR COUNTRY and time for US to stop being taxed without representation! We may have different ways of making that point, we may use different words. We may have different side issue, but we are COMMITTED to having this issue of unfairness of "TOO BIG TO FAIL" of government catering to lobbyists and the ultra-rich while taking more and more away from a middle class working harder and harder for less and less ENDED and we will NOT give up until that is accomplished. And lest you think I am some starry eyed youth with no life experience and dreams of ivory towers, you could not be more wrong. I am an Army veteran and have been a degreed health care professional (well within the middle class) for decades, and this is MY issue too. If you're not making a few million bucks a year it's YOUR issue too!

Be not afraid to live. ~Henry James~
AcerbicRN
Posted: Friday, October 28, 2011 9:42:17 PM

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HWNN1961 wrote:
Truthseeker wrote:
Well. The Democrat-Socialist-Nazi-Communist Parties are all in support of this protest. That alone speaks volumes.



You do realize that you are a living cartoon....right?


"As ye do unto the least of these so do ye unto me, sayeth the King of Kings." Matthew, Chapter 25, verse 30...something.
This movement is about anyone NOT in the top ONE PERCENT of the most ultra wealthy in the United States. This is about following the United States Constitution. This is a movement of democrats, republicans, libertarians, tea partiers, Catholics, Protestants, Wiccans, and everything in between. It is world wide, and includes people of every age, race, profession and personality type who cares about what the fact that ONE PERCENT of the people in this country OWN our government. If you tried getting your news from someone who presents news, not hyperbolic bloviation aided by copious amounts of oxycontin you just MIGHT be aware of that fact! Real news...try it sometime. You might like it.

Edit: Sorry, this reply should have been addressed to Truthseeker (who is clearly not seeking very actively...and that best NOT be a Terry Goodkind reference either...though if it is he likely only bothered to watch the stupid tv series and never bothered with the books, which are SO much better anyway) ...anyway, sorry about that HWNN1961 ; ;

Be not afraid to live. ~Henry James~
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