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Introvert or Extrovert Options
Peaceward
Posted: Saturday, October 15, 2011 4:53:40 PM
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MGmirkin in Topic "The word "lisp"" said that "When I think of a lisp, I always think of problems with the 's' sounds."
Of course, everyone thinks more or less, some people have imaginative thinking some no, one turned inward other outward.
Question: it is inquisitive to know your opinion, who is a master of language? Who commands the language more effective, masterful either with imaginative thinking or no? Or who would faster and quicker have learned language the inward oriented or outward one? And where that man everything perceiving and understanding..

What goes around, comes around.
Romany
Posted: Sunday, October 16, 2011 1:04:09 AM
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No matter what their personality traits, everyone brings a different style to language learning. Some learn better visually, some orally..there are many different styles.

Also, some people, with the best will in the world, simply don't have a good language-learning facility while others seem to have an in-built ability, just as some people never master Maths. or others never learn to cook well.

As a teacher, I can honestly say that being an introvert or an extrovert doesn't seem to have any bearing on how one masters a language.

Off Topic.
English is a constantly changing language. The old convention of speaking as though the male sex were the only inhabiters of the planet has been replaced by gender-neutral language. Both men and women learn languages. The last sentence in your post is now considered offensive as it clearly seem to indicate that you are talking exclusively about one gender only. The correct way to say this would be "And where that person..."

almostfreebird
Posted: Sunday, October 16, 2011 3:44:26 AM

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The thing is what you are interested in.
If you like chatting, you will find somebody to chat with, even if you don't understand everything what they say; you might try to figure out what you didn't understand later.

If you like Classic Rock, you will listen to a lot of them and you might want to know about musicians; where they were born, how their childhood were, how they learned to play, etc. and you will find a lot of articles to read, and finally you might wanna write a music review for some magazine.

I know this unique Russian rock critic George Starostin.



The verb "master" is vague and mystical to me.
I don't think it's possible for me to master even my mother language(Japanese), let alone foreign language.

I just enjoy learning them because they have interesting culture, pop culture, music, or whatever.
This New zealander is writing something about mastering language.




intelfam
Posted: Sunday, October 16, 2011 6:36:43 AM

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Romany wrote:


As a teacher, I can honestly say that being an introvert or an extrovert doesn't seem to have any bearing on how one masters a language.



I'd agree, it is more a case of motivation as almostfreebird says, than personality variables. If we treat the words "introvert" and "extrovert" in the sense that psychologists intended, then I can imagine that an extrovert might find a boring teacher more difficult and will be more easily distracted. This might occur in, for example, a school in which languages are part of the curriculum, whether the pupil wants to do them or not. But my caveat would apply with any subject - when at school, I had a teacher of Pure Mathematics whose class would degenerate into mischief, because he droned on in a monotone. It tended to be the extroverts who started the riot.



"The voice of the majority is no proof of justice." - Schiller
Peaceward
Posted: Sunday, October 16, 2011 11:16:21 AM
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Romany, thank you, agree with you "person" would were better choice, I was not enough thinking, it seems I am an extrovert though always reckoned am an introvert, you said - "others seem to have an in-built ability, just as some people never master Maths. or others never learn to cook well", and don't these prove that they originally have various approaches in perception of the world ( I would say different angle of vision, to some of them lack the focus ) and consequently learn with diverse success

intelfam, thank you, so in your opinion the extroverts start revolutions..whether they more learned then? Because question was as who learns more effectively and where that true person?

What goes around, comes around.
percivalpecksniff
Posted: Sunday, October 16, 2011 11:50:17 AM

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Personally I never follow political correctness and I do not speak or write in gender neutral language nor ever will I. We all know that man is a word for both sexes and that should suffice. Let's not have any rabid feminism here please.

Of course a woman is equal to a man, but thankfully different, and has always been so even if not perceived as such by many. Actions, not slavish attention to mere words, are what define the sexes respect for each other.

Men and women complement each other. Using gender neutral language is tiresome and of no consequence. I for one will continue to use man to signify both sexes, and I have four sisters and you know my mum was a women. I for one do not need lessons on treating women with the respect and dignity they deserve as equals, my sisters would soon have put me right if that were the case.

Attacking a poster for the use of the word man to signify us all is inexcusable.



It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. Aristotle
RubyMoon
Posted: Sunday, October 16, 2011 12:09:33 PM
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I agree, perci... I always used "man" and "you guys" in class -- it would have been too much of a distraction for the biochem and calc students had I switched off & on with she/woman/he/man, etc. However, I explained this to each new class at the beginning of each semester -- it was easily understood, accepted and never questioned.

Certainly, the proper usage of these gender-terms has a "place" and "time" in society, etc.

"rabid feminism"... that's funny... I like the image... although I really don't notice any (rabid feminists) on this forum.
percivalpecksniff
Posted: Sunday, October 16, 2011 12:36:16 PM

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Ok Ruby... perhaps a bit strong on pejorative language on my part. Now you say it makes me laugh too.

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. Aristotle
Peaceward
Posted: Sunday, October 16, 2011 1:06:38 PM
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To tell the truth I always think so for I wrote that way, seems sometime no need to think long, personally prefer improvisation, : )

percivalpecksniff and RubyMoon, who speaks in you an extrovert or an introvert?

And please from now on, who? one word

What goes around, comes around.
RubyMoon
Posted: Sunday, October 16, 2011 2:25:40 PM
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One word: Both.

(sorry, but this is the truth... yin-yang... rarely is there an absence of "the continuum" ...)
intelfam
Posted: Sunday, October 16, 2011 4:49:10 PM

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I honestly thought Romany was offering some advice rather than attacking but I suppose that depends on your point of view.

Having worked in a field where the pernicious effects of gender bias was so evident it was expected (and fairly easy) to adopt neutral terminology, but I guess if you are initially obliged to do this and are working with that expectation for 8-10 hours a day, it is a swift transition. I also wonder whether, the focus being on the individual in that work, there were rather less opportunities to talk in generalities -- where the conflict might arise if, like me, you were brought up in a non-PC family and had worked in a male industry previously. I think it was seeing how some male specific terminology could easily lead to discrimination that justified the change to me

RubyMoon mentioned "guys". It seems common usage round here to say "you guys" and "Come on guys" usw, even if the whole gang are women. I suppose it has been co-opted as a neutral word now among the young (well much younger then me!)



"The voice of the majority is no proof of justice." - Schiller
FounDit
Posted: Sunday, October 16, 2011 7:38:08 PM

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None of us is exclusively introvert or extrovert, but we tend to lean more heavily in one direction than the other.

As for language, I would guess (and it is a guess) that the introvert would perhaps learn faster and easier. I base this on the idea that the introvert would likely spend more time studying and thinking about the subject than the extrovert.

The extrovert would likely want to spend more time trying to be in the spotlight of attention, going places and doing things. While this might expose him to more of the language as it is spoken, if he can't understand it, he would then tend to avoid those situations in favor of company whose language he could understand.



A great many people will think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices. ~ William James ~
FounDit
Posted: Sunday, October 16, 2011 7:40:58 PM

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Oops. As a sop to Romany, read he/she and him/her wherever needed. My bad.

A great many people will think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices. ~ William James ~
percivalpecksniff
Posted: Monday, October 17, 2011 2:44:34 AM

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Let those who will, be offended ... I for one shall continue to avoid, like the plague, political correctness. To be offended by the expression man or mankind is to be hypersensitive and your average person would not give the matter a thought. Let the language police fret all they may.

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. Aristotle
Peaceward
Posted: Monday, October 17, 2011 4:03:14 AM
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I really do not think if an addressed to a woman "man" may somehow offend her if she is free off prejudices

FounDit, I agree with you, but whether right we are, introvert is inside, the world outside maybe this is his advantage, sits there and observe around.. while an extrovert is out there in the world itself though directly senses all around, who comprehends fuller

What goes around, comes around.
pedro
Posted: Monday, October 17, 2011 4:34:08 AM

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I have noticed that both introverts and extroverts can transform briefly into their opposite number after a bit of seasonal refreshment.

All good ideas arrive by chance- Max Ernst
Epiphileon
Posted: Monday, October 17, 2011 5:31:47 AM

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25 years ago when I was involved in a fairly extensive research project, personality and intelligence variables were major parts of the analysis, in none of the research of the literature, nor in the 5 years of data from roughly 625 participants, was there ever any correlation between intelligence and that personality scale. I remember in fact one, conversation while looking over the analyses, where the correlations were so weak, and fluctuated so much between positive and negative, someone saying, "Damn that is almost the evidence of absence."
Introverts and extroverts do have significantly different styles of learning though, in general, introverts perform better with aural presentations, and fear of punishment, while extroverts perform better with visual presentations, and anticipation of reward.

Question authority. How do you know, that you know, what you know?
Romany
Posted: Monday, October 17, 2011 7:43:57 AM
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Foundit - as a 'sop' to Romany?

I, like Rubymoon, am involved in the world of teaching. Her specialist subjects are (I think?) Science and Maths, mine are the English Language and Drama. At the Universities in which I have studied and taught, sexist language is not allowed and, indeed its use carries penalties. As a playwright too, any dialogue that was considered dated would soon receive the Director's cut, unless it was included to make a point about a particular character.

I know that out in the wider community many people are resistant to change and am not passing judgement. However, many of the L2 learners on this forum are students, or younger persons. They are new to the English language and can be unaware of many aspects that could be controversial or touchy. Whatever one's thoughts on changes (I, for example, mourn the splitting of the infinitive, but I don't pass this personal idea on to my students!)it's only fair to alert people to them.

pedro
Posted: Monday, October 17, 2011 7:55:01 AM

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Just to confuse the issue Romany, is this the exception that proves the rule?

'The Columbia Guide to Standard American English

This organization advises a writer to be weary of using split infinitives unless it decreases ambiguity. They use the example of these three sentences:

The driver is instructed periodically to check the oil level

The driver is instructed to periodically check the oil level.

The driver is instructed to check the oil level periodically.

Do you know which sentence is the split infinitive? The second sentence is the split infinitive because "periodically" is splitting the infinitive "to check". Although, the second sentence is the split infinitive, it is the most unambiguous; is the driver told to check the oil periodically, or is he physically checking the oil periodically. In this example, they believe the split infinitive is the best choice.'



All good ideas arrive by chance- Max Ernst
Peaceward
Posted: Monday, October 17, 2011 8:48:33 AM
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Epiphileon wrote:
25 years ago when I was involved in a fairly extensive research project, personality and intelligence variables were major parts of the analysis, in none of the research of the literature, nor in the 5 years of data from roughly 625 participants, was there ever any correlation between intelligence and that personality scale. I remember in fact one, conversation while looking over the analyses, where the correlations were so weak, and fluctuated so much between positive and negative, someone saying, "Damn that is almost the evidence of absence."
Introverts and extroverts do have significantly different styles of learning though, in general, introverts perform better with aural presentations, and fear of punishment, while extroverts perform better with visual presentations, and anticipation of reward.


Wow, very interesting conception, thank you, and yet still haven't been heard so far who better comprehends at all an orientated in or an out one, I am sure everyone has concrete view and could tell who in his opinion is better learner an introvert or an extrovert.
For example, my view on this is following..I believe that true introvert is better learner in general he is so to say inside and without any hurry can put everything accurately on the shelves ( but being a true introvert hardly he is seriously interested in acquiring of scientific knowledge or language ) while an extrovert is outside "the building", so to say homeless one who finds and loses at the same time, of course he also learns though not so fast like introvert, I think almost all learned people are extroverts with rare exception therefore our common knowledge is incomplete..unfortunately those true introverts, which could give to all of us full knowledge about the world, do not care any more.
Just a thought

What goes around, comes around.
Epiphileon
Posted: Monday, October 17, 2011 8:57:40 AM

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pedro wrote:

The driver is instructed periodically to check the oil level


Would this also be a dangling participle?Think

Question authority. How do you know, that you know, what you know?
pedro
Posted: Monday, October 17, 2011 9:02:18 AM

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Epiphileon wrote:
pedro wrote:

The driver is instructed periodically to check the oil level


Would this also be a dangling participle?Think



Well it is definitely not an elliptical clause (parabolic possibly).

All good ideas arrive by chance- Max Ernst
percivalpecksniff
Posted: Monday, October 17, 2011 9:19:10 AM

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Introvert and extrovert are to do with personalies and not learning abilty. One could posit that the extrovert is more questioning and therefore uses his enquiring mind, whereas the introvert is timid or the more settled and studious... but it is impossible to quantify it.


Be ever so wary of 'experts' who claim otherwise.


It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. Aristotle
Epiphileon
Posted: Monday, October 17, 2011 9:51:49 AM

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percivalpecksniff wrote:
Introvert and extrovert are to do with personalties and not learning ability. One could posit that the extrovert is more questioning and therefore uses his enquiring mind, whereas the introvert is timid or the more settled and studious... but it is impossible to quantify it.
Be ever so wary of 'experts' who claim otherwise.

Just to be clear, are we to understand that you are dismissing over 50 years of exhaustive studies, and literally hundreds of thousands of studies, concerning the quantifying of individual differences in personality and intelligence, and that the entire field of psychometrics is a sham?

Question authority. How do you know, that you know, what you know?
Peaceward
Posted: Monday, October 17, 2011 10:44:33 AM
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As long as we measure, calculate and consider so we can quantify everything, at least we can guess

What goes around, comes around.
almostfreebird
Posted: Monday, October 17, 2011 11:02:42 AM

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pedro
Posted: Monday, October 17, 2011 11:12:58 AM

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I would read that as an extrovert brain

All good ideas arrive by chance- Max Ernst
Peaceward
Posted: Monday, October 17, 2011 1:54:58 PM
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pedro wrote:
I would read that as an extrovert brain

Agree!

What goes around, comes around.
almostfreebird
Posted: Monday, October 17, 2011 2:03:33 PM

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Peaceward wrote:
pedro wrote:
I would read that as an extrovert brain

Agree!














percivalpecksniff
Posted: Monday, October 17, 2011 2:04:21 PM

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I said: Introvert and extrovert are to do with personalies and not learning abilty. One could posit that the extrovert is more questioning and therefore uses his enquiring mind, whereas the introvert is timid or the more settled and studious... but it is impossible to quantify it.


Be ever so wary of 'experts' who claim otherwise.


Epi said: Just to be clear, are we to understand that you are dismissing over 50 years of exhaustive studies, and literally hundreds of thousands of studies, concerning the quantifying of individual differences in personality and intelligence, and that the entire field of psychometrics is a sham?


My reply: You do slavishly depend on those you call experts... wasn't Jaynes supposed to be one? I stand by every syllable. My point is quite clear. Being an introvert or an extrovert is a matter of personality... not intelligence nor learning ability. Intelligence itself is hard to quantify as you should know. Of course if you so wish you may take issue.

I have met learned introverts and learned extroverts.


I posit that the vast majority of folk are considered to be neither extrovert or introvert but fall somehwre in between. Again I posit that one can swing between the two according to mood and interst or concern etc.Polarising the matter and trying to decide who is likely to learn better or be more intelligent is a futile course to take leading to inconclusive data.


It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. Aristotle
percivalpecksniff
Posted: Monday, October 17, 2011 2:06:05 PM

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Peaceward claimed: As long as we measure, calculate and consider so we can quantify everything, at least we can guess


That is a bit arrogant is it not? And it is plainly wrong.What about abstract things?


It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. Aristotle
Peaceward
Posted: Monday, October 17, 2011 2:32:22 PM
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percivalpecksniff wrote:



That is a bit arrogant is it not? And it is plainly wrong.What about abstract things?


How did you quantify that? Or you just guessed :) I respect your opinion, doesn't matter by what way defined

About abstracts? Positively!

What goes around, comes around.
Peaceward
Posted: Monday, October 17, 2011 2:53:49 PM
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almostfreebird, nice to me meet you, very funny Applause

What goes around, comes around.
almostfreebird
Posted: Monday, October 17, 2011 3:06:33 PM

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Peaceward wrote:
almostfreebird, nice to me meet you, very funny Applause












Peaceward
Posted: Monday, October 17, 2011 3:26:01 PM
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almostfreebird, are you okay? English, please

What goes around, comes around.
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