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Culture of Leisure Options
TMe
Posted: Wednesday, February 12, 2020 12:45:51 AM

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The concept of enjoying leisure is absent in India. Health permitting, people go on doing job or profession or business (primarily running after money) even up to the age of 90 sometimes disregarding moral values and duties towards other deserving members of the society.


Leisure has often been defined as a quality of experience or as free time Free time is time spent away from the business, work, job hunting, domestic chores, and education, as well as necessary activities such as eating and sleeping. Situationist International proposes that leisure does not evolve from free time, and free-time is an illusory concept that is rarely fully "free"; economic and social forces appropriate free time from the individual and sell it back to them as the commodity known as "leisure".[3] Certainly most people's leisure activities are not a completely free choice and may be constrained by social pressures, e.g. people may be coerced into spending time gardening by the need to keep up with the standard of neighbouring gardens or go to a party because of social pressures.
Wikipedia

FounDit
Posted: Wednesday, February 12, 2020 10:57:46 AM

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TMe wrote:
The concept of enjoying leisure is absent in India. Health permitting, people go on doing job or profession or business (primarily running after money) even up to the age of 90 sometimes disregarding moral values and duties towards other deserving members of the society.


Leisure has often been defined as a quality of experience or as free time Free time is time spent away from the business, work, job hunting, domestic chores, and education, as well as necessary activities such as eating and sleeping. Situationist International proposes that leisure does not evolve from free time, and free-time is an illusory concept that is rarely fully "free"; economic and social forces appropriate free time from the individual and sell it back to them as the commodity known as "leisure".[3] Certainly most people's leisure activities are not a completely free choice and may be constrained by social pressures, e.g. people may be coerced into spending time gardening by the need to keep up with the standard of neighbouring gardens or go to a party because of social pressures.
Wikipedia

I'm sorry to hear that. I have always devoted some time to leisure activities such as reading, meditation/contemplation, analyzing and pondering philosophical ideas and concepts. I found it to be greatly satisfying and pleasurable, and do so on a nearly daily basis. It's rare that I don't.

I find it curious that so many don't bother with exploring both the inner and outer world of our existence. So many seem to stumble into daily events like a blind man without a cane might stumble into walls or trees.

hedy mmm
Posted: Wednesday, February 12, 2020 1:40:32 PM

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TMe wrote:
The concept of enjoying leisure is absent in India. Health permitting, people go on doing job or profession or business (primarily running after money) even up to the age of 90 sometimes disregarding moral values and duties towards other deserving members of the society.


Leisure has often been defined as a quality of experience or as free time Free time is time spent away from the business, work, job hunting, domestic chores, and education, as well as necessary activities such as eating and sleeping. Situationist International proposes that leisure does not evolve from free time, and free-time is an illusory concept that is rarely fully "free"; economic and social forces appropriate free time from the individual and sell it back to them as the commodity known as "leisure".[3] Certainly most people's leisure activities are not a completely free choice and may be constrained by social pressures, e.g. people may be coerced into spending time gardening by the need to keep up with the standard of neighbouring gardens or go to a party because of social pressures.
Wikipedia


FounDit wrote:
I'm sorry to hear that. I have always devoted some time to leisure activities such as reading, meditation/contemplation, analyzing and pondering philosophical ideas and concepts. I found it to be greatly satisfying and pleasurable, and do so on a nearly daily basis. It's rare that I don't.

I find it curious that so many don't bother with exploring both the inner and outer world of our existence. So many seem to stumble into daily events like a blind man without a cane might stumble into walls or trees.


hedy mmm wrote:
OMG...I’m sorry to hear that too! Like FounDit, I also enjoy the same things...including sharing my thoughts, knowledge (mostly with just a chosen few)...you must free yourself of those ‘absent’ concepts of joy...one is never too old...listen to “Don’t Let the Old Man In” sung by Toby Keith. A song he wrote for Clint Eastwood.

Someone very very dear to me sent me that song...I trust that he knows that still...Life is meant to be lived morally, honestly, & finding that one person that also brings you joy & laughter is a bonus...Life is not a dress rehearsal...

hedy mmm




Ashwin Joshi
Posted: Saturday, February 15, 2020 12:29:43 AM

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TFD has defined and explained the meaning of leisure as follows;




https://www.freethesaurus.com/leisure
hedy mmm
Posted: Saturday, February 15, 2020 12:55:29 AM

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Ashwin Joshi wrote:
TFD has defined and explained the meaning of leisure as follows:

——————
I like the TFD’s definition of leisure:
spare
free
rest
holiday
quiet
ease
retirement
relaxation
vacation
recreation
time off
breathing space
spare moments
...and meant to be enjoyed because “Life is a gift”
Romany
Posted: Saturday, February 15, 2020 6:49:47 AM
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Hey TMe,

The concept of leisure was once reserved only for the Upper Classes - another name for whom was actually "The leisured class."

It was in the Industrial Revolution in England that the idea of "leisure" came to be seen as a concept necessary for ALL workers. The Industrial Revolution allowed many people to rise above their "station"; disposable income (money that was not all spent of housing, food medicine, education) became available to more and more people, and the "revolution" in technology at the time enabled the manufacture of items that were not necessities, but were for "amusement". Once again, "amusement" had been the province of the Upper Classes hitherto.

In this new era business & factory owners began to realise that an exhausted, overworked staff were less efficient than those who were alert...and content. It was a time of great unrest, riots,gangs of rabble-rousers, revolutionaries and violence, so, for the first time, rules & regulations governing workers were made into laws which carried penalties for mistreatment of workers. And ensuring that one's workers were not tempted to join these bands of trouble makers was the best way to run a successful business. Ensuring workers had adequate time to rest and recover from their heavy work tasks was seen not as a waste of time, but as a necessary concept.

The invention of railways meant for the first time, that people could travel cheaply and quickly to the seaside or the country...and the whole industry of "holidays" began.The "leisured classes" were no longer those at the top, but everyone. It was a social shakeup which led to the breakdown of the entire class system.

WWI defined for everyone how important "time off" was - and how the inability to take time off could have fatal consequences. From then on hundred & thousands of reports, experiments,theories, research, relating to "time off", "relaxation", "taking a break" have been done. These produced, first, tools of successful production, as well as part of the march towards social equality and, finally, the province of medical doctors of doctors of the mind whose proofs of the well-being of the population through a balance of work and leisure became a facet of everyone's lives.

Indians aren't alone in what the West sees as "overworking". The Chinese too have the same ethos: and in both of these huge population groups life expectancy is noticeably shorter than it is in the West: one of the causes being never allowing one's mind and body to rest and recuperate.

I remember asking a student who had just returned from two years in Australia what he'd thought about Australia and the Australians. "Lazy!" he spat out. "They are the laziest people in the world. All the shops close in the evenings, work just stops!! And all they do is go home and play with their children!"

The idea of leisure; "quality time" with family; relaxation? Concepts arrived at by lazy people who don't take life seriously!

Once again - yet another example of how differently East & West view the world.
Jyrkkä Jätkä
Posted: Saturday, February 15, 2020 8:33:10 AM

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Finns have one good definition for leisure: sauna.
Hope123
Posted: Saturday, February 15, 2020 10:51:01 PM

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Jyrkkä Jätkä wrote:
Finns have one good definition for leisure: sauna.


I agree!

JJ, Hello! I have missed meeting up with you! Hope you and your family are all well.
Ashwin Joshi
Posted: Sunday, February 16, 2020 4:37:59 AM

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Joined: 8/3/2016
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Location: Jandiāla Guru, Punjab, India
John Maynard Keynes (Keynes Theory of Income) conjured up in a little essay published in 1930 called "Economic Possibilities for Our Grandchildren." Its thesis was simple. As technological progress made possible an increase in the output of goods per hour worked, people would have to work less and less to satisfy their needs, until in the end they would have to work hardly at all. Then, Keynes wrote, "for the first time since his creation man will be faced with his real, his permanent problem—how to use his freedom from pressing economic cares, how to occupy the leisure, which science and compound interest will have won for him, to live wisely and agreeably and well." He thought this condition might be reached in about 100 years—that is, by 2030. (culled from the net)


Is he right?

Kirill Vorobyov
Posted: Monday, February 17, 2020 4:57:45 AM

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Joined: 10/4/2016
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Location: Moscow, Moscow, Russia
Romany wrote:
Hey TMe,

The concept of leisure was once reserved only for the Upper Classes - another name for whom was actually "The leisured class."

It was in the Industrial Revolution in England that the idea of "leisure" came to be seen as a concept necessary for ALL workers. The Industrial Revolution allowed many people to rise above their "station"; disposable income (money that was not all spent of housing, food medicine, education) became available to more and more people, and the "revolution" in technology at the time enabled the manufacture of items that were not necessities, but were for "amusement". Once again, "amusement" had been the province of the Upper Classes hitherto.

In this new era business & factory owners began to realise that an exhausted, overworked staff were less efficient than those who were alert...and content. It was a time of great unrest, riots,gangs of rabble-rousers, revolutionaries and violence, so, for the first time, rules & regulations governing workers were made into laws which carried penalties for mistreatment of workers. And ensuring that one's workers were not tempted to join these bands of trouble makers was the best way to run a successful business. Ensuring workers had adequate time to rest and recover from their heavy work tasks was seen not as a waste of time, but as a necessary concept.

The invention of railways meant for the first time, that people could travel cheaply and quickly to the seaside or the country...and the whole industry of "holidays" began.The "leisured classes" were no longer those at the top, but everyone. It was a social shakeup which led to the breakdown of the entire class system.

WWI defined for everyone how important "time off" was - and how the inability to take time off could have fatal consequences. From then on hundred & thousands of reports, experiments,theories, research, relating to "time off", "relaxation", "taking a break" have been done. These produced, first, tools of successful production, as well as part of the march towards social equality and, finally, the province of medical doctors of doctors of the mind whose proofs of the well-being of the population through a balance of work and leisure became a facet of everyone's lives.

Indians aren't alone in what the West sees as "overworking". The Chinese too have the same ethos: and in both of these huge population groups life expectancy is noticeably shorter than it is in the West: one of the causes being never allowing one's mind and body to rest and recuperate.

I remember asking a student who had just returned from two years in Australia what he'd thought about Australia and the Australians. "Lazy!" he spat out. "They are the laziest people in the world. All the shops close in the evenings, work just stops!! And all they do is go home and play with their children!"

The idea of leisure; "quality time" with family; relaxation? Concepts arrived at by lazy people who don't take life seriously!

Once again - yet another example of how differently East & West view the world.


Hello, Romany!

Techincally, that (in bold) would be discretionary income. Unfortunately, they don't report it (anymore?). Maybe still in the UK, though I haven't found UK statistics on Internet either. In Russia, which following 1991 established the system of national accounts as advised by the IMF, the concept seems to have been eradicated from the beginning.

What they all have , if you look up for contries' statistics on income, is precisely the "disposable income', which is merely income after income tax and tells nothing about the quality of life and affordability of "leisure" activities.

Romany
Posted: Monday, February 17, 2020 7:46:20 AM
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Location: Brighton, England, United Kingdom

Kirill -

you'd have to go back to records from before the 1830s to find mention of "disposable" income. It was a brand new concept for which there had never been a name before, because, as I said, only the Upper Classes had the money to live anything but a subsistence life. So perhaps they went through times of calling it different things? Remember that the discipline called "Economics" had not yet appeared or coined absolute terms.

Thank you, however, for pointing out to me how much our society and the way we gauge its spending power, has changed both in nomenclature and in practice.
FounDit
Posted: Monday, February 17, 2020 11:15:30 AM

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Ashwin Joshi wrote:
John Maynard Keynes (Keynes Theory of Income) conjured up in a little essay published in 1930 called "Economic Possibilities for Our Grandchildren." Its thesis was simple. As technological progress made possible an increase in the output of goods per hour worked, people would have to work less and less to satisfy their needs, until in the end they would have to work hardly at all. Then, Keynes wrote, "for the first time since his creation man will be faced with his real, his permanent problem—how to use his freedom from pressing economic cares, how to occupy the leisure, which science and compound interest will have won for him, to live wisely and agreeably and well." He thought this condition might be reached in about 100 years—that is, by 2030. (culled from the net)


Is he right?


Not from my point of view. It seems to me that when electricity and power tools were invented, more work could be accomplished in a day than could every have been done by hand. But rather than providing more leisure time, employers expected more work to be done. As we find ways to accomplish more in a day, more is expected. Some people I know don't have enough time during work hours to accomplish all that is expected of them, and have to work into the night to finish what is needed. Leisure time seems to be in short supply here for most people, and I'm fairly certain that is true around the world. I am lucky in that I do have leisure time, but it is primarily a product of my age and my job.
FounDit
Posted: Monday, February 17, 2020 11:21:39 AM

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Jyrkkä Jätkä wrote:
Finns have one good definition for leisure: sauna.


Hi, JJ!

I thought about you quite a bit over the last couple of days. I was watching a Netflix series that takes place in Helsinki, and not one person spent any time in a sauna! My, how Finns love those double consonants!...Whistle
hedy mmm
Posted: Monday, February 17, 2020 2:14:00 PM

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FounDit wrote:
Hi, JJ!

I thought about you quite a bit over the last couple of days. I was watching a Netflix series that takes place in Helsinki, and not one person spent any time in a sauna! My, how Finns love those double consonants!...Whistle


——
FounDit, wrote:
“Some people I know don't have enough time during work hours to accomplish all that is expected of them, and have to work into the night to finish what is needed. Leisure time seems to be in short supply here for most people, and I'm fairly certain that is true around the world. I am lucky in that I do have leisure time, but it is primarily a product of my age and my job.”

Yes, one’s job & age dictates leisure, and I too enjoy my leisure...
John Lennon’s quote: “Life is what happens to you while you’re busy making other plans”

And you’re not going to believe this, Think but I too was thinking of Jyrkkä Jäktä...he also likes double vowels (as in ‘sauna’)...hahaha
I bet he likes flying too! Just a wild guess! Whistle

Of course over Finland it looks a wee bit different than New Jersey d'oh! ...which is what I did when I was learning to fly...it is AWESOME!
So, can that be added to ‘leisure’...if that is its purpose?
And I also have both, an accent (í) & an umlaut (ä) in my last names!

Too funny...Dancing


Islami
Posted: Monday, February 17, 2020 11:46:32 PM
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Hi JJ; "sauna" in my country means 'sleep'; leisure in a broad sense?
TMe
Posted: Tuesday, February 18, 2020 10:10:40 AM

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hedy wrote;

...Of course over Finland it looks a wee bit different than New Jersey d'oh! ...which is what I did when I was learning to fly...it is AWESOME!
So, can that be added to ‘leisure’...if that is its purpose?
And I also have both, an accent (í) & an umlaut (ä) in my last names!

Wow...'umlaut' is a new word and an addition to my knowledge. Thanks, hedy.

TFD; Used in German Languages to produce a specific sound.

hedy is of German descent. Am I right, hedy?


hedy mmm
Posted: Tuesday, February 18, 2020 5:03:50 PM

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TMe wrote:
Wow...'umlaut' is a new word and an addition to my knowledge. Thanks, hedy.

TFD; Used in German Languages to produce a specific sound.

hedy is of German descent. Am I right, hedy?

——-
Yes, TMe, you are absolutely correct Applause ...very good memory ...I’m impressed! Applause
I am, on both sides of my parents, of Puerto Rican & German descent and my husband was of German & Swiss descent.., (he transitioned 6 yrs ago)
Having my own business now for over 30 yrs. & an educator for 20 yrs before that...clientele know that I work on German time... ‘immer pünktlich’, not the ’hay bendito’ mentality! Hahaha

Now that you’ve added ‘umlaut’ to your vocabulary...I’ve done exactly what your acronym means...I’ve Taught you English! Dancing

——————————

Islami wrote:

Hi JJ; “sauna” in my country means ‘sleep’; leisure in a broad sense?
————
Yikes Islami! You haven’t lived until you’ve been in a sauna...Jyrkkä Jäktä, whose homeland is where it all began...has the best leisure description....(next to being with your sweetheart in the sauna) hahaha. I assumed your ethnicity was either Middle Eastern or Australian, where saunas are very popular...i guess I made an ‘a__ out of U and Me’ (an idiom)Brick wall ...it could happen! Whistle

Here is the definition:
A sauna (/ˈsaʊnə/; Finnish pronunciation: [ˈsɑunɑ]), or sudatory, is a small room or building designed as a place to experience dry or wet heat sessions, or an establishment with one or more of these facilities. The steam and high heat make the bathers perspire. Infrared therapy is often referred to as a type of sauna, but according to the Finnish sauna organizations, infrared is not a sauna.

You may never want to ‘sleep’ again d'oh! ....hahahahaha

hedy Dancing








Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 10:16:07 AM

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Ashwin Joshi wrote:
John Maynard Keynes (Keynes Theory of Income) conjured up in a little essay published in 1930 called "Economic Possibilities for Our Grandchildren." Its thesis was simple. As technological progress made possible an increase in the output of goods per hour worked, people would have to work less and less to satisfy their needs, until in the end they would have to work hardly at all. Then, Keynes wrote, "for the first time since his creation man will be faced with his real, his permanent problem—how to use his freedom from pressing economic cares, how to occupy the leisure, which science and compound interest will have won for him, to live wisely and agreeably and well." He thought this condition might be reached in about 100 years—that is, by 2030. (culled from the net)

According to a couple of studies I've seen (they're a bit long and go into a lot of stuff which doesn't answer this) the WORLD has already reached the ability - if technology and current resources were used efficiently - to provide a very good life for ten billion people.

There is enough food produced for them all to eat above subsistence-level. It's just concentrated in some areas and wasted. Vertical farming and other projects could double it.
With a planned society in "garden cities", all ten billion could be housed in modern housing with heating, A/C, power, internet connection, whatever, and transport to whatever part of the planet you want to go.

The normal "working week" would be one four-hour day, though anyone who didn't want to work wouldn't HAVE to - but they would live at a bit lower standard than anyone who did work. No-one would be POOR.
Most would basically doing a 'hobby' - a job they enjoy doing.
One could work more - and earn 'extras' - particularly things which were hand-made by other people who enjoyed producing things.

However (and here's the catch) no-one would be RICH and have power over others either. No banks, no Federal (or World) Reserve bank.

And the changeover, the building of this society would take decades - and would have to be financed by the currently super-rich individuals, families and corporations.

FounDit
Posted: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 1:40:43 PM

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Joined: 9/19/2011
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Yes, Utopia can be ours. All that is necessary is to change human nature. Easy-peasy...Dancing
Islami
Posted: Thursday, February 20, 2020 9:23:12 AM
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Leisuring, is she?!





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