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How Important Are the Riots In Egypt? Options
HWNN1961
Posted: Sunday, October 09, 2011 8:35:35 PM

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This one is hot. Put on your asbestos gloves before you post. It's too important to shoot from the hip, or to mouth the bumper-sticker mentality of choice.

There have been bloody riots in Cairo, Egypt. I knew that Christians there were demonstrating.

This forum is a priceless source of unvarnished opinion. So, in my ignorance, I turn to my fellows again:

What is behind this? What does it mean.

This is a straightforward request for your best thoughts. Don't throw bombs. Throw ideas. We'll all profit thereby.

"Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless, and do no wrong". (Knight's Oath, Kingdom of Heaven)
martyg
Posted: Sunday, October 09, 2011 9:12:01 PM
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an old axiom holds true.

leopards never change their spots.

also, christians - 10% muslims 90%. not looking so good.
Geeman
Posted: Monday, October 10, 2011 2:27:58 AM

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One of the benefits of a dictatorship is that the leader can repress ethnic tensions with the kind of brutality that democracies are unable to muster. Dictators prefer to suppress racism WITHIN their borders because ALL the people within those borders are meant to be subservient to that dictator. He may give preferential treatment to one or another, but unless he's going to wipe out a particular group he'll assume that their continued existence under his thumb is better than ethnic violence, which can be taken as a sign of that dictator's weakness. See Yugoslavia for a prime example of how that works, but also Somalia as a more recent case.

When dictators are ousted, however, people are free to express their racist views, and ethnic tensions that would remain suppressed come out. In Egypt's case, there's a deep and abiding conflict between the Copt minority and the Muslim majority, with the Muslims I'm sorry to say on the aggressive side of the equation. It's been going on for quite a long time, really. Every once in a while, a Copt will be killed by some group or another. It's been happening for a long time, but under Mubarak the scale of the conflict was suppressed.

The question becomes, will the international community be able to do anything to stop the violence? When Mubarak was being deposed Muslims and Christians worked together in Egypt... but now that he's gone they remember that they hate each other--just less than they hated Mubarak.

So, we're going to see some pretty nasty stuff in Egypt for a few years until somebody figures out some sort of way to balance the equation. Hopefully that won't be so long that we end up with too many dead.
ellana
Posted: Monday, October 10, 2011 8:26:10 AM
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Whoever said that money is the root of all evil forgot to include religion and greed.
nowherenothere
Posted: Monday, October 10, 2011 3:35:46 PM

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HWNN1961 wrote:

What is behind this? What does it mean.


What is behind this? Disenchanted people who are struggling with freedom and liberty, and oppression and tyranny. Further confounded by uncompromising differences in opinion especially pertaining to social, political and religious values and beliefs.

What does it mean? Chaos and disorder. I suppose growing pains until they mature and learn to overcome animosity, hatred and fear. Or maybe until someone else steps in with draconian measures and sequesters disagreement, which would leave them where they were before. The choice is theirs, regardless of whether they see it that way or not.

But then again, that's just my opinion.




Forgiving is Love, Love is For Giving.
RuthP
Posted: Monday, October 10, 2011 4:27:22 PM
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Coptic Christians, primarily from southern Egypt were demonstrating. They were (according to NPR's reporter in Egypt) joined by some Muslims. The Coptic Christians were complaining about damage and threats to their churches, again primarily in southern Egypt. They state the current military (interim?) government is doing nothing to control this.

Some of the Egyptian rebel groups are Islamist. Some of them believe the government should have an official religion: Islam. This is not, in all cases, the same as desiring Shari'a rule, though it can reflect that. Some Islamists wish no Christians, or other faiths, in the country.

The majority of those who have spoken for the rebels, whether Islamist or secular, have not supported the extremes (Shari'a and expulsion of other faiths). The majority of the people speaking for the rebel groups have supported freedom of religion, though not necessarily a secular state.

There are claims that the military is allowing this unrest to justify further martial law and military governance.

It means that there was no such thing as "the rebels". There were many disparate groups, each with its own, often conflicting, agenda.

It remains to be seen whether a stable, free country can come of this in the short term, or whether there will be another dictatorship, either religious or secular.
jmacann
Posted: Monday, October 10, 2011 6:29:19 PM
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Location: Spain

[quote]
"with its own, often conflicting, agenda" is almost euphemistic -I daresay. I am afraid you are quite right, though.
JackH
Posted: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 11:10:36 PM

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Location: China, Beijing
Europe was once under tyranny, but after Hilter was down, the nations resolved their feud and rose again from their ash. Freedom seemed to have been an easier task in most of Europe. So maybe nation state is the answer?

Follow the mind, or follow the herd: that's the question.
Teluu
Posted: Saturday, October 15, 2011 4:43:34 PM

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Joined: 5/23/2010
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Location: Toronto
That's what the Western countries Arab spring into democracy brought.The change "From frying pan to fire". The Islamist are taking over in Egypt, Libya and elsewhere. Religious clash is sad indeed, and riot against the Coptic Christians is not what the world want.
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