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FYI- A geopolitical earthquake has shaken US leadership in the world — Russia and China stand to ben Options
Hope123
Posted: Saturday, October 26, 2019 11:32:49 PM

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FYI-
I've been saying that other world leaders have been taking advantage of a weak Trump for a couple of years now. Seems maybe some journalists are starting to agree.

And it is the world economy and other countries that are suffering.

How some Americans can still support him is a mystery to the rest of the Americans and the rest to the world.


https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/26/russia-and-china-are-challenging-us-global-leadership-under-trump.html

The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes/ears. It was their final, most essential command Orwell 1984
LogicDefined
Posted: Sunday, October 27, 2019 1:08:10 AM
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Looks like Armageddon is rearing its prophetic head. Read Ezekiel Chapters 36 through 39. I hope everyone is ready to meet their Lord and King Jesus! The war of the ages looks like it's finally here! Even though I had looked forward to Christ's return, I was kind of hoping we'd have a few good years under President Trump after the traitors were tried and executed. Yours and my enemies will do ANYTHING to stop Trump from carrying out his plans to make America great, again. Sad. But, the enemy has their plans and God has His. And the latter isn't something we can do anything about. If it's the Great Tribulation, I guess it's the Great Tribulation. Like I said at the beginning of my rant, I hope you're ready! If not, you still have time. Blow the dust off your Bible, get on your knees and talk to Him.

Wrong is wrong if everyone does it; Right is right if no one does it; and ALL are held accountable.
Oscar D. Grouch
Posted: Sunday, October 27, 2019 4:14:25 AM

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LogicDefined wrote:
Yours and my enemies will do ANYTHING to stop Trump from carrying out his plans to make America great, again.


Great again? Compared to what?

This implies something has been lost. What have you lost?

What would you like to return to?
taurine
Posted: Sunday, October 27, 2019 4:29:23 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/20/2016
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Location: South Dublin, Ireland
Oscar D. Grouch wrote:
LogicDefined wrote:
Yours and my enemies will do ANYTHING to stop Trump from carrying out his plans to make America great, again.


Great again? Compared to what?

This implies something has been lost. What have you lost?

What would you like to return to?



The sun scarce up risen,
Shot parallel to the earth his dewy ray,
Discovering in wide landscape all the east
Of paradise, and Eden's happy plains.

-Milton.


Meine treue deine hande. Herzogtum.
Wilmar (USA)
Posted: Sunday, October 27, 2019 8:40:47 AM

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TRUMP 2020!
Hope123
Posted: Sunday, October 27, 2019 11:54:52 AM

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Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Trump 2020. Party before country. America that is.


The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes/ears. It was their final, most essential command Orwell 1984
FounDit
Posted: Sunday, October 27, 2019 1:29:40 PM

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Posts: 12,026
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Hope123 wrote:
FYI-
I've been saying that other world leaders have been taking advantage of a weak Trump for a couple of years now. Seems maybe some journalists are starting to agree.

And it is the world economy and other countries that are suffering.

How some Americans can still support him is a mystery to the rest of the Americans and the rest to the world.


https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/26/russia-and-china-are-challenging-us-global-leadership-under-trump.html


If I thought you, or Oscar, or any of the others who hate the President so viscerally could comprehend it, I would explain to you all why so many still support Trump and America.

That isn't meant as an insult, but merely saying that our past conversations prove that we see things from a completely different point of view - a view that you seem incapable of seeing, or even trying to understand.

See if this explains some things:

https://www.texasmonthly.com/politics/houston-lost-mind-trump-shirt/



We should look to the past to learn from it, not destroy our future because of it — FounDit
Absurdicuss
Posted: Sunday, October 27, 2019 5:57:35 PM

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Donald Trump, the people's president. Outsider, non politically correct, unabashed America First leader of the free world. Defying the globalist agenda, confronting Neo-Marxism, the hypocrisy of leftism at every opportunity.
Making AMERICA, already the greatest, freest, most noble republic in world history, greater than ever..

It is unfortunate that many are unable to see beyond his brash, straight spoken style to see that he is the Godzilla of Politics, eradicating the status quo that has gripped the western world since the advent of the Rothschild banking cartel.

Ending endless wars
Resetting global trade by initiating bilateral agreements and moving way from globalist central bank controlled policies.

Yeah, Donald Trump is the greatest president since.....George Washington.

American exceptionalism - the natural human right to pursue happiness, the limits of government, the bill of rights.
The US Constitution.



"Now" is the eternal present.
jj.smith
Posted: Sunday, October 27, 2019 7:25:29 PM
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FounDit wrote:

See if this explains some things:

https://www.texasmonthly.com/politics/houston-lost-mind-trump-shirt/



It explains nothing. It's unfortunate that the woman who shouted at the teenage girl didn't use a different approach to have a dialog with the young girl. She could've said "Pardon me, I see you're wearing a Donald Trump t-shirt. Do you support him? Why? Do you know that he bragged that he could sexually assault any woman of his choosing and get away with it due to his celebrity? Do you support that? Is that behavior befitting of a president? Do you want young men to grow up thinking that behavior is appropriate?"

Now that conversation would've been a much more productive approach.

What the story does show us though is that when the average person emulates Donald Trump's behavior, even in jest, we see how truly ugly, repugnant and dehumanizing the behavior actually is.

Donald Trump IS ugly and repugnant. Money and temporary political position do not change that fact. To paraphrase Sarah Palin, if you put lipstick on a pig, you still have a pig.
Hope123
Posted: Monday, October 28, 2019 12:20:02 AM

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FD, I'm not sure exactly what I am supposed to infer about how Trump will change America for the better from the article about the escalating stupidity of many Americans - supposedly adults. Both sides of this dispute did not practise MYOB. Also, social media is a culprit, often not being used the way it was intended. All I see from this example and many others that hit the US media everyday is that they feel freer to holler insults to perfect strangers because there is an example of insults of his opponents from the top down on Twitter or when he is questioned by the media every day by their leader - Trump.

You are correct that we will likely never agree as we come from different cultures. The woman who confronted the kid with the shirt was downright rude. Wearing political clothing knowing the political climate these days is a kind of rudeness or quest for attention to begin with. They are doing it on purpose but since it was a kid I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and say they were naive. Canadians are supposed to be a polite society. Although that is changing, most may not FEEL like always being polite but usually are. They might have muttered under their breath or to a friend "Oh Gawd, a Trump shirt when I hate how he treats women" but only a very few would go out of their way to cause a scene.

I've been asking and trying to understand for four years exactly what the policies are where you think Trump is doing such a great job besides immigration, putting in conservative justices on SCOTUS to enact conservative/religious policies, and anti climate change.

Even if I were to agree with those policies (I do support good immigration policies such as Canada has where there's humanity but still extreme vetting and the best are selected) I cannot get past the corruption evident in what he does every day - from him and his family benefitting financially (including the company to which his brother is connected just being awarded a govt contract worth millions), to his using the DOJ as his lackeys, firing them when they don't comply. There is to be some degree of separation between the DOJ and the executive branch. More and more examples are coming out of him asking DOJ, his lawyers, and other employees to do illegal things for him.

Trump was apparently golfing when the Baghdadi attack took place at 3:30 pm Washington time and the staged photo of him watching was after 4:30 pm.To notify Russia and not Congress about the attack the military planned recently was totally on brand. Can you not see the wannabe dictator in all his actions?

He costs the country millions every weekend while he attends to his businesses or plays golf. When certain statistics are compared they show that the economy has been just increasing/doing what it was before but now under the tariffs and particularly the trade war with China, the US economy and the world economy is sputtering.

I also will never understand why you oppose universal healthcare, and don't care that Trump has raised the debt substantially. By the end of this term he'll have added $5 trillion dollars to make it $22 trillion dollars. The deficit was almost a trillion. He seriously thinks he can just print money to erase the debt.


The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes/ears. It was their final, most essential command Orwell 1984
Hope123
Posted: Monday, October 28, 2019 12:24:03 AM

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Abs, if I were to try to boil your post down to a few words, I'd say you think Trump is the greatest thing since sliced bread because he is taking the country back to protectionism. And because you hate "leftist" policies.

AmIrite?

I do have to disagree on two points - Citizens of other countries would disagree with me if I said America is no longer the leader of the free world - because they would say it never was. Also, America is exceptional only in the minds of Americans. You are taught that from the cradle. Many countries view the US as backward in their social policies, in their banking systems, and in the number of people who still believe that the earth is only 2000 years old and humans were made from dirt.

As for his "brash straight spoken style" I might not care how he spoke if he told the truth once in a while. He has lied so often nobody is able to believe anything he says. For example there is a discrepancy between when Trump says he watched the Baghdadi attack and when he got back from golfing.

(BTW - Should I be envious? I've never had a Canadian leader that I agreed with on everything he did. Not one of them has ever been so perfect as Trump is to you. I guess you are obviously not an American farmer?)

::::

What Trump is doing IS Protectionism because it is a political winner and is something that has come and gone throughout history. But ask the American farmers how tariffs are working for them now - those who have not committed suicide recently. Tariffs also breed ill will between nations - part of the reason 99% of Canadians hate Trump. (Mostly they just think he is incompetent, nasty, and corrupt.)

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mayrarodriguezvalladares/2019/08/12/trumps-trade-wars-are-hurting-midwest-farmers-banks-and-state-coffers/#3aa83c7f5140

Protectionism arose from the Depression, but instead of helping made it worse.

https://www.marketplace.org/2017/08/24/what-was-one-worst-pieces-us-legislation/

Protectionism definition:

https://www.thoughtco.com/protectionism-definition-and-examples-4571027

Neither total free trade nor total protectionism work well. That is why agreements between countries work better.

"In FTAs, the participating nations mutually agree on limited protectionist practices tariffs and quotas. Today, economists agree that FTAs has (sic) averted many potentially disastrous trade wars."


The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes/ears. It was their final, most essential command Orwell 1984
Oscar D. Grouch
Posted: Monday, October 28, 2019 1:45:38 AM

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taurine wrote:
Oscar D. Grouch wrote:
LogicDefined wrote:
Yours and my enemies will do ANYTHING to stop Trump from carrying out his plans to make America great, again.


Great again? Compared to what?

This implies something has been lost. What have you lost?

What would you like to return to?



The sun scarce up risen,
Shot parallel to the earth his dewy ray,
Discovering in wide landscape all the east
Of paradise, and Eden's happy plains.

-Milton.


little donny has been quietly stripping down years worth of environmental regulations for the benefit of large polluting corporations. Down with the clean air act! Down with the clean water act! Protecting endangered species and biodiversity? Who needs it? Poisoned air? Poisoned water? Poisoned food? Is that your version of "paradise?" The Earth is the only home our species has. Is that the world you want to leave to your children and future generations?

Oh, lets not forget global warming! A world without ice will be nice and toasty. Average global temperatures are predicted to be ~ 30°F higher. Sea level is predicted to rise by 200 ft. Kiss New York, LA, Florida, San Diego and many other cities around the world goodbye! Much of the US will be as hot as Death Valley. Crops will fail. Millions will die. Welcome to "paradise." An avoidable tragedy if only we all took action.

The oceans have already absorbed so much CO2 that they're acidifying. For example, shellfish farmers in Washington State and other locations can no longer use the natural sea water for raising young oysters and other shellfish because it's so acidic, it dissolves the animal's shells and they die. Global warming is real and it's happening right now.

little donny thinks it's all a conspiracy though. Just like the Laws of Thermodynamics, it'll be an undeniable reality that'll come to bite us all in the ass.

March Hare
Posted: Monday, October 28, 2019 6:26:24 AM

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Absurdicuss wrote:

Making AMERICA, already the greatest, freest, most noble republic in world history, greater than ever.


Is this a joke? Certainly looks like one to me. Maybe add an emoticon next time to make it more clear?
Hope123
Posted: Monday, October 28, 2019 7:50:02 AM

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I wondered that too, could not remember previous POV posts, so went with location as a clue.

The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes/ears. It was their final, most essential command Orwell 1984
FounDit
Posted: Monday, October 28, 2019 12:26:16 PM

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Hope123 wrote:
FD, I'm not sure exactly what I am supposed to infer about how Trump will change America for the better from the article about the escalating stupidity of many Americans - supposedly adults.

You aren't supposed to infer anything from the article. I posted it for you to read to ask you for an opinion.

jj.smith says,

"What the story does show us though is that when the average person emulates Donald Trump's behavior, even in jest, we see how truly ugly, repugnant and dehumanizing the behavior actually is."

smith sees the woman's behavior as ugly, repugnant, and dehumanizing. Apparently, many others saw it that way too.

Bearing in mind that she, as a private citizen, made the comment loudly, in public, and in front of children, and Trump, as a private citizen, made the comment privately, to another man, and we wouldn't even know about it if the media had not made it public, my question is:

does she deserve to be forgiven, or does she and her family deserve everything that continues to come their way as a result of her behavior?

I'm wondering which side you come down on in this question when considering the empathy and compassion you feel for people.




We should look to the past to learn from it, not destroy our future because of it — FounDit
Hope123
Posted: Tuesday, October 29, 2019 12:31:17 AM

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FD,

Your lead up to the link was certainly misleading for jj.smith and me as to what you were expecting. But...

The punishment should "always fit the crime". Is what is happening to the woman who shouted proportional to what she did? I don't think so. She deserved sanction but it got way out of hand. I hope your throwaway comment about Trump is not meant to try to defend him on the same score as this woman shouting at someone when he excoriates people daily in public.

I'm also not sure why you are bringing it up here but I assume you are talking about the "pussy" comment being made in private to a man? That went to his character and values as someone running to be president - a different circumstance completely. The punishment fit the crime there but it turned out not to even be punishment. His followers hailed it as being macho - as I believe you called it "locker room talk" at the time. It actually helped him. (Billy Bush not so much. I actually felt empathy for what people did to him just for not stopping Trump when he lost everything and Trump went on to be president. It was the unfairness that got me.)

Both of these people, the woman shouter and the pussy-grabbing bragging Trump, had only their big mouths and big egos to blame.

I'm afraid I don't suffer either of these fools gladly and save my empathy for persons who deserve it.

What this has to do with China and Russia finding Trump weak and benefitting from that for themselves is I don't know.

But on another digression... (See my segue there? Whistle ) Last night at the Nationals ball game Trump was soundly booed and the crowd chanted "Lock him up". And from the look on his face while trying not to grind his teeth I assume there will be payback of some kind. It was the first time Trump has been out in crowds when they weren't his controlled "rallies". What the crowd did was just as deplorable last night as it was when he encouraged the audiences to chant against Hillary at his rallies.

However, I feel no empathy for Trump here either for two reasons. One - his supporters need to hear what the rest of the country thinks about him. But the reasoning really is this - "you get what you give" - and karma came sooner than he thought.

So back atcha FD - what is your opinion about the booing and chanting of your president by just over 47,000 Americans last night? Do you feel empathy for him?

Also - Do you really think what Trump has done in his foreign policies is making America stronger or do you agree with the original post as posited? Can you make an argument that China and Russia have not benefitted from him leaving the ally Kurds unprotected and needing Russia's help and his actions in other foreign affairs?

And why did Trump need to exaggerate that he heard Bagdadi whimper?

Plus the raid went down at 3:30 pm and Trump got back from golfing at 4:18 pm and I believe the photo was time stamped later so do you think the photo of him watching with the rest of them was fake?



The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes/ears. It was their final, most essential command Orwell 1984
Hope123
Posted: Tuesday, October 29, 2019 2:10:59 AM

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How about this for nastily shouting out lies to millions of people? Trump himself released the Ukraine phone call transcript. What should be Trump's punishment? Would anyone have empathy if things escalated negatively for Trump as they did for the woman at the donut shop?

Donald J. Trump (Twitter account verified)
@realDonaldTrump
The only crimes in the Impeachment Hoax were committed by Shifty Adam Schiff, when he totally made up my phone conversation with the Ukrainian President and read it to Congress, together with numerous others on Shifty’s side. Schiff should be Impeached, and worse!


11:58 PM · Oct 28, 2019·Twitter for iPhone

(PS - Is Trump''s iPhone secure? I wonder what "worse" some of Trump's supporters might think should happen to Schiff for trying to impeach Trump?)





The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes/ears. It was their final, most essential command Orwell 1984
Oscar D. Grouch
Posted: Tuesday, October 29, 2019 3:43:45 AM

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Hope123 wrote:
And why did Trump need to exaggerate that he heard Bagdadi whimper?


little donny boasting that Baghdadi died "like a whimpering dog" will only come back to bite the US in the ass. I can see it now being used as an ISIS recruitment slogan, "American president calls Islamists dogs." little donny said it to stroke his own ego. Melania probably told him to go f*** himself after Stormy Daniels.
jj.smith
Posted: Tuesday, October 29, 2019 7:26:06 AM
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FounDit wrote:
jj.smith says,

"What the story does show us though is that when the average person emulates Donald Trump's behavior, even in jest, we see how truly ugly, repugnant and dehumanizing the behavior actually is."

smith sees the woman's behavior as ugly, repugnant, and dehumanizing. Apparently, many others saw it that way too.


No. I never said that.

My point was that Donald Trump's behavior is repugnant.

My point was that his supporters overlook his behavior and give him a free pass while attacking others like blood thirsty piranha.
Oscar D. Grouch
Posted: Tuesday, October 29, 2019 10:20:01 AM

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Neurons: 1,154,502
Hope123 wrote:
And why did Trump need to exaggerate that he heard Bagdadi whimper?


Officials cringe as Trump spills sensitive details of al-Baghdadi raid

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/officials-cringe-as-trump-spills-sensitive-details-of-al-baghdadi-raid/ar-AAJuLrP

A couple of the president's statements on Sunday were inaccurate or left U.S. officials wondering where he got his information, officials said. The president said when U.S. officials notified Russia it would be entering airspace in western Syria, they told the Russians, "We think you're going to be very happy." But that phrase was not said on the call with the Russians, a U.S. official said. Trump also said al-Baghdadi was "crying and screaming" as U.S. forces chased him down, but U.S. officials said they didn't hear those sounds, and Milley told reporters he doesn't know the source of the president's information on that.

· - · - · - · - · - · - · - · - · - · - ·

Perhaps he just made it up to make himself look bigger. It's his reality TV mentality.
FounDit
Posted: Tuesday, October 29, 2019 4:12:54 PM

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Hope123 wrote:

FD,

Your lead up to the link was certainly misleading for jj.smith and me as to what you were expecting. But...
There was nothing misleading about what I wrote. Anyone should be able to understand it. I said we saw things from two different points of view, and I posted the link to show that. Your response here demonstrates that truth.

The punishment should "always fit the crime". Is what is happening to the woman who shouted proportional to what she did? I don't think so. She deserved sanction but it got way out of hand. I hope your throwaway comment about Trump is not meant to try to defend him on the same score as this woman shouting at someone when he excoriates people daily in public.
You say the punishment should always fit the crime, but you don’t practice that with this woman and Trump. You and the others here direct far more hate towards him, even though what she did was public and in front of children, while Trump did none of that. The “crimes” are not equal, and your “punishment” is not equal either.
Furthermore, I am not defending Trump, I am asking why all of you, when given the choice between forgiving and hating, choose hate. You are willing to temper the “punishment” for the woman whose “crime” was ostensibly worse, but offer none for him. Once again displaying a choice for hate over forgiveness.

I'm also not sure why you are bringing it up here but I assume you are talking about the "pussy" comment being made in private to a man? Because that is what we are talking about - evaluating the reaction to a comment made by two people, and why that reaction is so violently different. So why are you not sure what is being discussed?

That went to his character and values as someone running to be president - a different circumstance completely. That’s right. It is a different circumstance completely. The Presidency is irrelevant because it is the reaction to a comment made by two private individuals that is relevant, not the positions they went on to take afterwards.

The punishment fit the crime there but it turned out not to even be punishment. His followers hailed it as being macho - as I believe you called it "locker room talk" at the time. That wasn’t my definition. That was what everyone was calling it. I merely agreed with it.

It actually helped him. (Billy Bush not so much. I actually felt empathy for what people did to him just for not stopping Trump when he lost everything and Trump went on to be president. It was the unfairness that got me.)

Both of these people, the woman shouter and the pussy-grabbing bragging Trump, had only their big mouths and big egos to blame.
So you are incapable of judging fairly, but rather, you judge based on the positions both went on to obtain, not the comment itself, or the circumstances under which they were made.

I'm afraid I don't suffer either of these fools gladly and save my empathy for persons who deserve it.
So you believe the woman and her family deserve what has happened to them as a result. Okay. Given the choice between forgiveness and hate, you choose hate. I hoped you would be honest about it.

What this has to do with China and Russia finding Trump weak and benefitting from that for themselves is I don't know.
I never mentioned either of those countries, and that has nothing to do with what we are discussing – or in my case – trying to discuss.

But on another digression... (See my segue there? ) Last night at the Nationals ball game Trump was soundly booed and the crowd chanted "Lock him up". And from the look on his face while trying not to grind his teeth I assume there will be payback of some kind. It was the first time Trump has been out in crowds when they weren't his controlled "rallies". What the crowd did was just as deplorable last night as it was when he encouraged the audiences to chant against Hillary at his rallies.
He never encouraged that. The crowd did it own their own simply at the mention of her name. And each time, he turned his back and did not lead them in it.

However, I feel no empathy for Trump here either for two reasons. One - his supporters need to hear what the rest of the country thinks about him.
What? You have no empathy because his supporters need to hear what everyone else thinks of him? Do you really believe we don’t know? And how is that a reason for withholding empathy? That makes no sense at all.

But the reasoning really is this - "you get what you give" - and karma came sooner than he thought.
Once again, you come back to hate. Okay.

So back atcha FD - what is your opinion about the booing and chanting of your president by just over 47,000 Americans last night? Do you feel empathy for him?
I am totally unconcerned about it. It didn’t bother me. The people booing merely showed the world their lack of character and lack of respect. Aside from that, Trump is one of the strong-minded I wrote about in another post. He knows millions of us support him, so I don't think he is bothered by the booing of weak-minded individuals.

Also - Do you really think what Trump has done in his foreign policies is making America stronger or do you agree with the original post as posited? What – that, according to you, “world leaders have been taking advantage of a weak Trump for a couple of years now”? That idea? I absolutely do not agree to that. World leaders have been taking advantage of past Presidents and Trump is reversing that. And reversing that is exactly what Make America Great Again is about: making it strong, safe, secure, and wealthy for all its citizens; making it the best country we can make. Only a fool wants to destroy his own country.

Or do you mean the part about “And it is the world economy and other countries that are suffering”?
Not our problem. Each country has to fix their own problems if their economy is suffering. We have demonstrated that a Free Market approach works best, but if they don’t want to go that route, not our problem.

Can you make an argument that China and Russia have not benefitted from him leaving the ally Kurds unprotected and needing Russia's help and his actions in other foreign affairs?
Like the President, I worry more about our own country and its people, not China, Russia, or the Kurds. Besides that, all of them benefited from the death of Bagdadi. A cease-fire has been agreed to and all parties appear to have benefited from Trump’s actions. It looks much better from here, as far as I am concerned.

And why did Trump need to exaggerate that he heard Bagdadi whimper?
Because he wanted to describe him in insulting ways. He was a serial rapist, a murderer, and a terrorist. Are you sympathetic to him? If not, why be so concerned about how the piece of shit was described?

Plus the raid went down at 3:30 pm and Trump got back from golfing at 4:18 pm and I believe the photo was time stamped later so do you think the photo of him watching with the rest of them was fake?
I don’t know that this is true, but if so, so what? Obama was out golfing when bin Ladin was killed and he had to be brought back for that, too. I don’t recall you being upset over that. But then, you could forgive all his lies and mistakes, but you choose to hate Trump.

And that’s why for you, Oscar, Lotje, Romany, et al., it will always remain a mystery to you why so many Americans remain locked in support of him: Hate truncates reason. And that is the difference in our points of view.




We should look to the past to learn from it, not destroy our future because of it — FounDit
Hope123
Posted: Tuesday, October 29, 2019 10:26:34 PM

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FD, I have a migraine and may try to deal with this post later but right now I just skimmed first and last paragraphs.

We will never understand each other for two reasons that show up nicely in the first and last points you made. One:

FounDit wrote:
"If I thought you, or Oscar, or any of the others who hate the President so viscerally could comprehend it, I would explain to you all why so many still support Trump and America.

That isn't meant as an insult, but merely saying that our past conversations prove that we see things from a completely different point of view - a view that you seem incapable of seeing, or even trying to understand.

See if this explains some things:
https://www.texasmonthly.com/politics/houston-lost-mind-trump-shirt/ "


So to paraphrase:

You wrote two paragraphs saying you WOULD explain why so many still support Trump BUT WE are incapable of seeing or even trying to understand. And now we should see if this (link) explains SOME THINGS. What things? All you and we've talked about is why people still support Trump. And then the link is a non sequitur about people fighting about Trump etc. (A distraction from the OP? You never ARE going to even try to explain even though I have asked to to do so many times, are you? So I am guessing it must be only about immigration, climate change, and the Supreme Court with you. No real high and lofty philosophies after all.)

Then you wonder why people don't understand you or say that post was misleading. Surely you get that now?

Two: you missed or purposely missed the point when you try to defend Trump by bringing in Obama. I don't give a hoot WHEN either one of them was brought in or WHAT they were doing at the time.

Obama didn't exaggerate or lie about what he saw or heard. TRUMP DID. You bend over backwards to defend Trump instead of seeing reality. That is amazing with the number of vets and purple hearts etc. Trump and Trumpists attack and you are a veteran. You choose to support such a liar. There is no way you should be believing a word he utters, as he's lied and cheated continuously about everything. We choose to hate his policies and his character.

Baghdadi was killed in SPITE of Trump who impulsively withdrew American forces from Syria & disrupted the meticulous planning of months. Pentagon officials were stuck with a risky, night raid. Trump LIED about hearing screaming, crying & whimpering. There was no live audio. He downplayed the Kurd help, thanked about four other countries before he thanked American soldiers, and made it all about himself. He also gave out careless information about the tactics of the raid.



The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes/ears. It was their final, most essential command Orwell 1984
LogicDefined
Posted: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 2:22:49 PM
Rank: Newbie

Joined: 1/22/2015
Posts: 23
Neurons: 35,009
Oscar D. Grouch wrote:
Hope123 wrote:
And why did Trump need to exaggerate that he heard Bagdadi whimper?


little donny boasting that Baghdadi died "like a whimpering dog" will only come back to bite the US in the ass. I can see it now being used as an ISIS recruitment slogan, "American president calls Islamists dogs." little donny said it to stroke his own ego. Melania probably told him to go f*** himself after Stormy Daniels.


Actually, President Trump shows greater wisdom than the two of you. The only thing our enemies respect is FORCE and BRAVERY. Much like the indigenous people of North America when they took a scalp of their enemy, they shouted and celebrated excessively, terrifying their enemies letting them know who was superior!

The people of the Middle East are not as we are in the West. We are "reasonable"; we "duke it out with words". (admittedly, it flies over the heads of most, but...) Trump lets them know HE is the King of the Hill and they respect that. Their esteemed leader was killed and his behavior was considerably less than that of a courageous leader. Baghdadi's people are now completely demoralized. They will think twice before crossing the President of the United States after this.

However, Trump's goal is not to be King of the Mountain. He wants only to bring America back to its former greatness. Most of all, he wants an end to endless wars designed by the Military-Industrial Complex. He wants peace through fair trade and everyone minding their own business. Listen to his speeches to the U.N. Further, he is done aiding those who continue to stab Americans in the back by lopsided trade deals. He just this week cut foreign aid to several countries by 19.2 trillion dollars! This is the amount America has subsidized about 9 countries that have taken unfair advantage of the American taxpayer and gave absolutely nothing in return. Not even respect. And he wants corruption removed from our House and law and order, respect and integrity of our leaders restored.

President Trump works FOR THE PEOPLE!!! And this is why we love him!! We've never had a president who put OUR interest first. Other presidents robbed us blind, and President Trump is putting an end to ALL corruption. There is much the ordinary person surfing the internet doesn't see. As we speak, children are rescued from sex-trafficking and sometimes child sacrifice. Abusers and traffickers are arrested every day and brought to justice. He is cleaning it up. I can't prove it to you. You will have to search for yourselves. But I do know this, those who speak against him either have something to hide and are afraid, or just plain ignorant of the facts. To take any one's word for "facts" is foolish. Or taking one side or the other without gathering all the facts. How about just searching for the truth and accepting that? Everyone wins, then.

Wrong is wrong if everyone does it; Right is right if no one does it; and ALL are held accountable.
FounDit
Posted: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 3:13:23 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/19/2011
Posts: 12,026
Neurons: 59,911
Hope123 wrote:
FD, I have a migraine and may try to deal with this post later but right now I just skimmed first and last paragraphs.
Then you missed a lot.

We will never understand each other for two reasons that show up nicely in the first and last points you made. One:

FounDit wrote:
"If I thought you, or Oscar, or any of the others who hate the President so viscerally could comprehend it, I would explain to you all why so many still support Trump and America.

That isn't meant as an insult, but merely saying that our past conversations prove that we see things from a completely different point of view - a view that you seem incapable of seeing, or even trying to understand.

See if this explains some things:
https://www.texasmonthly.com/politics/houston-lost-mind-trump-shirt/ "


So to paraphrase:

You wrote two paragraphs saying you WOULD explain why so many still support Trump BUT WE are incapable of seeing or even trying to understand. And now we should see if this (link) explains SOME THINGS. What things? All you and we've talked about is why people still support Trump. And then the link is a non sequitur about people fighting about Trump etc. (A distraction from the OP? You never ARE going to even try to explain even though I have asked to to do so many times, are you? So I am guessing it must be only about immigration, climate change, and the Supreme Court with you. No real high and lofty philosophies after all.)

Then you wonder why people don't understand you or say that post was misleading. Surely you get that now?
I said see if this explains some things. I then made another post where I told you I wanted your opinion on that piece so as to ask you a question. That question was how you judged the two people for saying exactly the same thing.

It was your response to the article and your judgement of the two people that would explain why we see thing so differently. Perhaps if you had read it with a calm state of mind, and thought a moment about it, this would not have eluded you.

Two: you missed or purposely missed the point when you try to defend Trump by bringing in Obama. I don't give a hoot WHEN either one of them was brought in or WHAT they were doing at the time.
You were the one who brought up the golfing point, and criticized Trump for being on the golf course. I merely pointed out that you didn't do the same for Obama. Seems like a perfectly legitimate point to make to me.

Obama didn't exaggerate or lie about what he saw or heard. TRUMP DID. You bend over backwards to defend Trump instead of seeing reality. That is amazing with the number of vets and purple hearts etc. Trump and Trumpists attack and you are a veteran. You choose to support such a liar. There is no way you should be believing a word he utters, as he's lied and cheated continuously about everything. We choose to hate his policies and his character.
This is ridiculous. He exaggerated Bagdadi's behavior and you have a fit? And I'm supposed to hate him because some weak-minded vets hate him? Get real. And to say you only hate his policies is a lie. He is consistently degraded and insulted on a personal level here and elsewhere - not for his policies.

Baghdadi was killed in SPITE of Trump who impulsively withdrew American forces from Syria & disrupted the meticulous planning of months. And you know this was impuslive - how exactly? Are you privy to his thinking and planning? I think not. Once again, you are judging out of hate for the man, unwilling to give any benefit to him for anything he does.
Pentagon officials were stuck with a risky, night raid. Trump LIED about hearing screaming, crying & whimpering. There was no live audio. But there was video. How do you know it couldn't be discerned by his behavior? You don't. You are once again making a judgement based on hate.He downplayed the Kurd help, thanked about four other countries before he thanked American soldiers, and made it all about himself. He also gave out careless information about the tactics of the raid.According to who? I heard his speak and he gave out no details about the tactics of the raid. You are listening to fellow haters and believing every word they say, rather than thinking for yourself. This, too, is why we will never agree and see things from two different points for view. You follow the herd, believing what you are told, confirmation bias for your hate.



We should look to the past to learn from it, not destroy our future because of it — FounDit
Hope123
Posted: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 4:16:46 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
Posts: 8,916
Neurons: 51,108
Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Headache gone - just got to the rest of your post from yesterday - have not read your today's rebuttal yet.

FounDit wrote:
Hope123 wrote:

FD,

Your lead up to the link was certainly misleading for jj.smith and me as to what you were expecting. But...
There was nothing misleading about what I wrote. Anyone should be able to understand it. I said we saw things from two different points of view, and I posted the link to show that. Your response here demonstrates that truth.


See above post. Your link had nothing to do with the lead in about why you support Trump.

The punishment should "always fit the crime". Is what is happening to the woman who shouted proportional to what she did? I don't think so. She deserved sanction but it got way out of hand. I hope your throwaway comment about Trump is not meant to try to defend him on the same score as this woman shouting at someone when he excoriates people daily in public.
You say the punishment should always fit the crime, but you don’t practice that with this woman and Trump. You and the others here direct far more hate towards him, even though what she did was public and in front of children, while Trump did none of that. The “crimes” are not equal, and your “punishment” is not equal either.
Furthermore, I am not defending Trump, I am asking why all of you, when given the choice between forgiving and hating, choose hate. You are willing to temper the “punishment” for the woman whose “crime” was ostensibly worse, but offer none for him. Once again displaying a choice for hate over forgiveness.


In your black and white thinking, you make up these name tags for people, put them in a box, and do not allow for any of the actual circumstances and reality to be considered - if they deplore Trump's actions and character, it must be because they can't be forgiving, because of hate, because of some character flaw of theirs, not Trump's actions and words. If they deplore governments not doing anything about climate change they must be full of fear.


Again in black and white thinking you have a weird take that these two situations that you have depicted can even be comparable. You put all the emphasis on one word when the motivations are the opposite: the woman used the word "pussy" in public, in front of children, emulating what Trump had said. Because Trump's was private, you say the public one was worse. You ignore that the woman was denigrating such actions, while the to-be president was bragging about his sex life and how he has been getting away with deplorable ACTIONS. The criticism of him was never just about the fairly benign word but about his exposed attitudes towards women.



I'm also not sure why you are bringing it up here but I assume you are talking about the "pussy" comment being made in private to a man? Because that is what we are talking about - evaluating the reaction to a comment made by two people, and why that reaction is so violently different. So why are you not sure what is being discussed?

That went to his character and values as someone running to be president - a different circumstance completely. That’s right. It is a different circumstance completely. The Presidency is irrelevant because it is the reaction to a comment made by two private individuals that is relevant, not the positions they went on to take afterwards.

The punishment fit the crime there but it turned out not to even be punishment. His followers hailed it as being macho - as I believe you called it "locker room talk" at the time. That wasn’t my definition. That was what everyone was calling it. I merely agreed with it.


I did not say you made up the definition. Not everyone was calling it that. But you did.

It actually helped him. (Billy Bush not so much. I actually felt empathy for what people did to him just for not stopping Trump when he lost everything and Trump went on to be president. It was the unfairness that got me.)

Both of these people, the woman shouter and the pussy-grabbing bragging Trump, had only their big mouths and big egos to blame.
So you are incapable of judging fairly, but rather, you judge based on the positions both went on to obtain, not the comment itself, or the circumstances under which they were made.


No. I judged by the fact they both made stupid comments.


I'm afraid I don't suffer either of these fools gladly and save my empathy for persons who deserve it.
So you believe the woman and her family deserve what has happened to them as a result. Okay. Given the choice between forgiveness and hate, you choose hate. I hoped you would be honest about it.


I said she acted stupidly, deserved some sanction, but the ensuing chaos ridiculously got out of hand. My feelings for people of her ilk who make public disturbances are not hatred but sadness that this is what happens daily in America recently. How much more honest than that can I be?


What this has to do with China and Russia finding Trump weak and benefitting from that for themselves is I don't know.
I never mentioned either of those countries, and that has nothing to do with what we are discussing – or in my case – trying to discuss.


LOL. Have you forgotten the title of the thread since you hijacked it?

But on another digression... (See my segue there? ) Last night at the Nationals ball game Trump was soundly booed and the crowd chanted "Lock him up". And from the look on his face while trying not to grind his teeth I assume there will be payback of some kind. It was the first time Trump has been out in crowds when they weren't his controlled "rallies". What the crowd did was just as deplorable last night as it was when he encouraged the audiences to chant against Hillary at his rallies.
He never encouraged that. The crowd did it own their own simply at the mention of her name. And each time, he turned his back and did not lead them in it.


He also clapped with them, returned and repeated the exact same accusations, and not once ever tried to stop it. John McCain was a better man - he called them out over comments about Obama. So it was ok for that crowd to react that way but not for the ballgame crowd to spontaneously react with Trump's face being the only provocation?

However, I feel no empathy for Trump here either for two reasons. One - his supporters need to hear what the rest of the country thinks about him.
What? You have no empathy because his supporters need to hear what everyone else thinks of him? Do you really believe we don’t know? And how is that a reason for withholding empathy? That makes no sense at all.


Practical considerations affecting decisions don't make sense to you?

But the reasoning really is this - "you get what you give" - and karma came sooner than he thought.
Once again, you come back to hate. Okay.


How is "you get what you give" translated into hate? It means everyone can expect this reality. It is why civilized people obey the golden rule and Trump doesn't. He thinks he is so much better so that every rule and/or law does not apply to him. He found out that it does.


So back atcha FD - what is your opinion about the booing and chanting of your president by just over 47,000 Americans last night? Do you feel empathy for him?
I am totally unconcerned about it. It didn’t bother me. The people booing merely showed the world their lack of character and lack of respect. Aside from that, Trump is one of the strong-minded I wrote about in another post. He knows millions of us support him, so I don't think he is bothered by the booing of weak-minded individuals.


You have no clue about his emotional state. The man cannot stand criticism of any kind. He is belligerent, bullying, impatient, irresponsible, intellectually lazy, short-tempered, and self-obsessed. The crowd booing was the worst for him as it was public. For the first time in his three-year presidency, Donald Trump faced a crowd made up of actual constituents and not just a subset curated to present a fake veneer of popularity. For the very first time, Trump faced the actual public. And you think his allowing such chants in his rallies has no bearing on what happens elsewhere when it gave the crowd the idea of how to reply in kind as well as the normal booing in displeased crowds.


Also - Do you really think what Trump has done in his foreign policies is making America stronger or do you agree with the original post as posited? What – that, according to you, “world leaders have been taking advantage of a weak Trump for a couple of years now”? That idea? I absolutely do not agree to that. World leaders have been taking advantage of past Presidents and Trump is reversing that. And reversing that is exactly what Make America Great Again is about: making it strong, safe, secure, and wealthy for all its citizens; making it the best country we can make. Only a fool wants to destroy his own country.

Or do you mean the part about “And it is the world economy and other countries that are suffering”?
Not our problem. Each country has to fix their own problems if their economy is suffering. We have demonstrated that a Free Market approach works best, but if they don’t want to go that route, not our problem.


America is part of the world and is already feeling the global effects. Again, you get what you give. Check out Protectionism historically. .

Can you make an argument that China and Russia have not benefitted from him leaving the ally Kurds unprotected and needing Russia's help and his actions in other foreign affairs?
Like the President, I worry more about our own country and its people, not China, Russia, or the Kurds. Besides that, all of them benefited from the death of Bagdadi. A cease-fire has been agreed to and all parties appear to have benefited from Trump’s actions. It looks much better from here, as far as I am concerned.


Oh please. You think N Korea, China, Russia, and Iran are not laughing at America's leader and doing what they please? See next post. So you don't care that Russia and China now have more control over an oil area. Well, that will be a US problem.

And why did Trump need to exaggerate that he heard Bagdadi whimper?
Because he wanted to describe him in insulting ways. He was a serial rapist, a murderer, and a terrorist. Are you sympathetic to him? SNARK, SNARK!

If not, why be so concerned about how the piece of shit was described?

If am not sympathetic to Trump why would I be sympathetic to a POS. You know that was not the point. Trump did his usual exaggeration. I think he actually imagines what things would be like in certain situations and they become reality for him as if he is making reality TV. He can't distinguish between the two. The photo of Obama actually watching was full of tension and action. Trump's was static and posed leading to the speculation it was after the fact (and happened IN SPITE OF HIM. )


Plus the raid went down at 3:30 pm and Trump got back from golfing at 4:18 pm and I believe the photo was time stamped later so do you think the photo of him watching with the rest of them was fake?
I don’t know that this is true, but if so, so what? Obama was out golfing when bin Ladin was killed and he had to be brought back for that, too. I don’t recall you being upset over that. But then, you could forgive all his lies and mistakes, but you choose to hate Trump.

And that’s why for you, Oscar, Lotje, Romany, et al., it will always remain a mystery to you why so many Americans remain locked in support of him: Hate truncates reason. And that is the difference in our points of view.




No more wondering. Got it. I was looking for some explicit philosophical lofty conservative ideals that don't exist.

You mean blind loyalty syncopates the ability to see the reality of a corrupt presidency.


The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes/ears. It was their final, most essential command Orwell 1984
Hope123
Posted: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 4:27:14 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
Posts: 8,916
Neurons: 51,108
Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
The US Left and Right have adopted a push for a U.S. retreat from the world for a while. It did not begin with Trump and will not end when he's gone. However, many feel Trump's policies do not promote U.S. national interests.

You have to subscribe to read the whole article.


https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/2019-09-27/reckless-choices-bad-deals-and-dangerous-provocations


The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes/ears. It was their final, most essential command Orwell 1984
BobShilling
Posted: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 4:44:01 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/1/2018
Posts: 1,411
Neurons: 7,561
Location: Beroun, Stredocesky, Czech Republic
LogicDefined wrote:
President Trump is putting an end to ALL corruption. There is much the ordinary person surfing the internet doesn't see. As we speak, children are rescued from sex-trafficking and sometimes child sacrifice. Abusers and traffickers are arrested every day and brought to justice. He is cleaning it up. I can't prove it to you.


You said it!.
LogicDefined
Posted: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 5:27:54 PM
Rank: Newbie

Joined: 1/22/2015
Posts: 23
Neurons: 35,009
Absurdicuss wrote:
Donald Trump, the people's president. Outsider, non politically correct, unabashed America First leader of the free world. Defying the globalist agenda, confronting Neo-Marxism, the hypocrisy of leftism at every opportunity.
Making AMERICA, already the greatest, freest, most noble republic in world history, greater than ever..

It is unfortunate that many are unable to see beyond his brash, straight spoken style to see that he is the Godzilla of Politics, eradicating the status quo that has gripped the western world since the advent of the Rothschild banking cartel.

Ending endless wars
Resetting global trade by initiating bilateral agreements and moving way from globalist central bank controlled policies.

Yeah, Donald Trump is the greatest president since.....George Washington.

American exceptionalism - the natural human right to pursue happiness, the limits of government, the bill of rights.
The US Constitution.



Silly me!! Applause I keep looking for a "like" button!!! Thank you! My hat's off to you!

Wrong is wrong if everyone does it; Right is right if no one does it; and ALL are held accountable.
FounDit
Posted: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 7:49:53 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/19/2011
Posts: 12,026
Neurons: 59,911
Hope123 wrote:
Headache gone - just got to the rest of your post from yesterday - have not read your today's rebuttal yet.

FounDit wrote:
Hope123 wrote:

FD,

Your lead up to the link was certainly misleading for jj.smith and me as to what you were expecting. But...
There was nothing misleading about what I wrote. Anyone should be able to understand it. I said we saw things from two different points of view, and I posted the link to show that. Your response here demonstrates that truth.


See above post. Your link had nothing to do with the lead in about why you support Trump.
My response to this in the second post:

I said see if this explains some things. I then made another post where I told you I wanted your opinion on that piece so as to ask you a question. That question was how you judged the two people for saying exactly the same thing.

It was your response to the article and your judgement of the two people that would explain why we see thing so differently. Perhaps if you had read it with a calm state of mind, and thought a moment about it, this would not have eluded you.

The punishment should "always fit the crime". Is what is happening to the woman who shouted proportional to what she did? I don't think so. She deserved sanction but it got way out of hand. I hope your throwaway comment about Trump is not meant to try to defend him on the same score as this woman shouting at someone when he excoriates people daily in public.
You say the punishment should always fit the crime, but you don’t practice that with this woman and Trump. You and the others here direct far more hate towards him, even though what she did was public and in front of children, while Trump did none of that. The “crimes” are not equal, and your “punishment” is not equal either.
Furthermore, I am not defending Trump, I am asking why all of you, when given the choice between forgiving and hating, choose hate. You are willing to temper the “punishment” for the woman whose “crime” was ostensibly worse, but offer none for him. Once again displaying a choice for hate over forgiveness.


In your black and white thinking, you make up these name tags for people, put them in a box, and do not allow for any of the actual circumstances and reality to be considered - if they deplore Trump's actions and character, it must be because they can't be forgiving, because of hate, because of some character flaw of theirs, not Trump's actions and words. If they deplore governments not doing anything about climate change they must be full of fear.
First, I made up no names for anyone. And second, you now blame Trump for your hate? That's rich. It's his fault you hate because he doesn't please you. And now it's a government's fault you are filled with fear? Do you take any responsibility for anything? Oh, wait, I know. You're all victims. You don't bear responsibility. It's all done to you.


Again in black and white thinking you have a weird take that these two situations that you have depicted can even be comparable. Yes. Two people say exactly the same words. How dare I compare those two things?
You put all the emphasis on one word Wrong! I did no such thing. I compared the complete phrase.
when the motivations are the opposite: the woman used the word "pussy" in public, in front of children, emulating what Trump had said. Because Trump's was private, you say the public one was worse. So you don't think saying it loudly in public and in front of children is worse? You have a very strange sense of values.
You ignore that the woman was denigrating such actions, Wrong again. She was trying to humiliate the girl. Trump wasn't even aware of it.
while the to-be president was bragging about his sex life and how he has been getting away with deplorable ACTIONS. The criticism of him was never just about the fairly benign word but about his exposed attitudes towards women.

Not in that article. It was about the woman saying the phrase out loud in public in front of children in order to humiliate a teenage girl.

I'm also not sure why you are bringing it up here but I assume you are talking about the "pussy" comment being made in private to a man? Because that is what we are talking about - evaluating the reaction to a comment made by two people, and why that reaction is so violently different. So why are you not sure what is being discussed?

That went to his character and values as someone running to be president - a different circumstance completely. That’s right. It is a different circumstance completely. The Presidency is irrelevant because it is the reaction to a comment made by two private individuals that is relevant, not the positions they went on to take afterwards.

The punishment fit the crime there but it turned out not to even be punishment. His followers hailed it as being macho - as I believe you called it "locker room talk" at the time. That wasn’t my definition. That was what everyone was calling it. I merely agreed with it.


I did not say you made up the definition. Not everyone was calling it that. But you did. Unimportant.

It actually helped him. (Billy Bush not so much. I actually felt empathy for what people did to him just for not stopping Trump when he lost everything and Trump went on to be president. It was the unfairness that got me.)

Both of these people, the woman shouter and the pussy-grabbing bragging Trump, had only their big mouths and big egos to blame.
So you are incapable of judging fairly, but rather, you judge based on the positions both went on to obtain, not the comment itself, or the circumstances under which they were made.


No. I judged by the fact they both made stupid comments.
But you were willing to soften it for her, but not for the President - because of hate for him.

I'm afraid I don't suffer either of these fools gladly and save my empathy for persons who deserve it.
So you believe the woman and her family deserve what has happened to them as a result. Okay. Given the choice between forgiveness and hate, you choose hate. I hoped you would be honest about it.


I said she acted stupidly, deserved some sanction, but the ensuing chaos ridiculously got out of hand. My feelings for people of her ilk who make public disturbances are not hatred but sadness that this is what happens daily in America recently. How much more honest than that can I be?
You can admit that you don't judge the two people fairly for saying exactly the same thing - one private, one public.

What this has to do with China and Russia finding Trump weak and benefitting from that for themselves is I don't know.
I never mentioned either of those countries, and that has nothing to do with what we are discussing – or in my case – trying to discuss.


LOL. Have you forgotten the title of the thread since you hijacked it?
I didn't hijack it. I attempted to answer the question you asked in the OP.

But on another digression... (See my segue there? ) Last night at the Nationals ball game Trump was soundly booed and the crowd chanted "Lock him up". And from the look on his face while trying not to grind his teeth I assume there will be payback of some kind. It was the first time Trump has been out in crowds when they weren't his controlled "rallies". What the crowd did was just as deplorable last night as it was when he encouraged the audiences to chant against Hillary at his rallies.
He never encouraged that. The crowd did it own their own simply at the mention of her name. And each time, he turned his back and did not lead them in it.


He also clapped with them, returned and repeated the exact same accusations, and not once ever tried to stop it. He allows people to have their own opinions on things - something you might consider permitting also, but I doubt that you're capable of doing that.
John McCain was a better man - He was a fool who put his own personal dislikes above what was good for the country and his fellow citizens.
he called them out over comments about Obama. So it was ok for that crowd to react that way but not for the ballgame crowd to spontaneously react with Trump's face being the only provocation?

Tsk, tsk. This you get exercised over? Tempest in a teapot.

However, I feel no empathy for Trump here either for two reasons. One - his supporters need to hear what the rest of the country thinks about him.
What? You have no empathy because his supporters need to hear what everyone else thinks of him? Do you really believe we don’t know? And how is that a reason for withholding empathy? That makes no sense at all.


Practical considerations affecting decisions don't make sense to you?
Whose practical considerations - yours? What about the remainder of the country's citizens? I trust him to make good decisions because so far, he has done a fine job of it, and against all odds. But on top of that, you are a Canadian. You have no business telling him, or us, how he should behave, or what he should do.

But the reasoning really is this - "you get what you give" - and karma came sooner than he thought.
Once again, you come back to hate. Okay.


How is "you get what you give" translated into hate? It means everyone can expect this reality. It is why civilized people obey the golden rule and Trump doesn't. He thinks he is so much better so that every rule and/or law does not apply to him. He found out that it does.
Are you obeying the golden rule when you attack him so relentlessly and viciously? Glass houses and all that.

So back atcha FD - what is your opinion about the booing and chanting of your president by just over 47,000 Americans last night? Do you feel empathy for him?
I am totally unconcerned about it. It didn’t bother me. The people booing merely showed the world their lack of character and lack of respect. Aside from that, Trump is one of the strong-minded I wrote about in another post. He knows millions of us support him, so I don't think he is bothered by the booing of weak-minded individuals.


You have no clue about his emotional state. The man cannot stand criticism of any kind. He doesn't tolerate it, and he shouldn't. What he is getting is totally uncalled-for. No President has ever been subjected to the hate he has had directed at him. Not only that, but his supporters also who are physically assaulted on the streets.He is belligerent, bullying, impatient, irresponsible, intellectually lazy, short-tempered, and self-obsessed.Your opinion - not facts born out by what he has been able to accomplish, which I would say is a thousand times greater than anything you have accomplished in your life.
The crowd booing was the worst for him as it was public. For the first time in his three-year presidency, Donald Trump faced a crowd made up of actual constituents and not just a subset curated to present a fake veneer of popularity. For the very first time, Trump faced the actual public. And you think his allowing such chants in his rallies has no bearing on what happens elsewhere when it gave the crowd the idea of how to reply in kind as well as the normal booing in displeased crowds.

You have really quite lost your mind if you think the people in that stadium represent the general public. They are your fellow haters who displayed their ill-mannered behavior for all the world to witness.

Also - Do you really think what Trump has done in his foreign policies is making America stronger or do you agree with the original post as posited? What – that, according to you, “world leaders have been taking advantage of a weak Trump for a couple of years now”? That idea? I absolutely do not agree to that. World leaders have been taking advantage of past Presidents and Trump is reversing that. And reversing that is exactly what Make America Great Again is about: making it strong, safe, secure, and wealthy for all its citizens; making it the best country we can make. Only a fool wants to destroy his own country.

Or do you mean the part about “And it is the world economy and other countries that are suffering”?
Not our problem. Each country has to fix their own problems if their economy is suffering. We have demonstrated that a Free Market approach works best, but if they don’t want to go that route, not our problem.


America is part of the world and is already feeling the global effects. Again, you get what you give. Check out Protectionism historically. .
And its working to our benefit. We aren't closing off, we re-negotiating smartly, to our benefit, as it should have always been done. As every other country does.

Can you make an argument that China and Russia have not benefitted from him leaving the ally Kurds unprotected and needing Russia's help and his actions in other foreign affairs?
Like the President, I worry more about our own country and its people, not China, Russia, or the Kurds. Besides that, all of them benefited from the death of Bagdadi. A cease-fire has been agreed to and all parties appear to have benefited from Trump’s actions. It looks much better from here, as far as I am concerned.


Oh please. You think N Korea, China, Russia, and Iran are not laughing at America's leader and doing what they please? See next post. So you don't care that Russia and China now have more control over an oil area. Well, that will be a US problem.
Irrelevant. We are the world's largest producer of oil and natural gas. Why should we care what the others do? And laughing at Trump? Ha! They wish they were so popular and able to accomplish as much.

And why did Trump need to exaggerate that he heard Bagdadi whimper?
Because he wanted to describe him in insulting ways. He was a serial rapist, a murderer, and a terrorist. Are you sympathetic to him? If not, why be so concerned about how the piece of shit was described?

If am not sympathetic to one POS why would I be sympathetic to an even worse POS. So now you equate Trump with Bagdadi? Your hate is really showing tonight.
You know that was not the point. Trump did his usual exaggeration. I think he actually imagines what things would be like in certain situations and they become reality for him as if he is making reality TV. He can't distinguish between the two.
The photo of Obama actually watching was full of tension and action. Trump's was static and posed leading to the speculation it was after the fact (and happened IN SPITE OF HIM. )
Bullshit. You know nothing about what went on in the situation room.

Plus the raid went down at 3:30 pm and Trump got back from golfing at 4:18 pm and I believe the photo was time stamped later so do you think the photo of him watching with the rest of them was fake?
I don’t know that this is true, but if so, so what? Obama was out golfing when bin Ladin was killed and he had to be brought back for that, too. I don’t recall you being upset over that. But then, you could forgive all his lies and mistakes, but you choose to hate Trump.

And that’s why for you, Oscar, Lotje, Romany, et al., it will always remain a mystery to you why so many Americans remain locked in support of him: Hate truncates reason. And that is the difference in our points of view.




No more wondering. Got it. I was looking for some explicit philosophical lofty conservative ideals that don't exist.
Why? That's not what we are talking about. Besides that, you wouldn't be able to comprehend them. Your hate would get in the way.

You mean blind loyalty syncopates the ability to see the reality of a corrupt presidency.

Corrupt how? After two years of investigation nothing has been found because he hasn't done anything wrong. Wishful thinking on the part of haters.


We should look to the past to learn from it, not destroy our future because of it — FounDit
Oscar D. Grouch
Posted: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 8:11:29 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/26/2014
Posts: 745
Neurons: 1,154,502
BobShilling wrote:
LogicDefined wrote:
President Trump is putting an end to ALL corruption.


You said it!.


little donny IS corruption! This isn't new. It's the very fabric of his life's story. He is a two-bit scam artist.
Hope123
Posted: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 8:24:36 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
Posts: 8,916
Neurons: 51,108
Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Gosh, how would I know about Trump's reporting of the Baghdadi raid? Oh, I dunno. I guess even the UK press must be Trump "haters".

The Guardian (UK) "Doubts over Donald Trump's dramatic account of Baghdadi raid"

BBC "Trump takes partisan line after raid"

NBC News "Officials cringed as Trump spilled sensitive details of al-Baghdadi raid"

Fox News "NPR accuses Trump of spiking the football"

The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes/ears. It was their final, most essential command Orwell 1984
Hope123
Posted: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 8:27:25 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
Posts: 8,916
Neurons: 51,108
Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
FounDit wrote: ...it will always remain a mystery to you why so many Americans remain locked in support of him...

Hope123 wrote: No more wondering. Got it. I was looking for some explicit philosophical lofty conservative ideals that don't exist.

FounDit wrote: Why? That's not what we are talking about...


I know. No lofty conservative ideals as to why so many Americans remain locked in support of him. I naively used to think you had some to tell us about and truly was interested.



As for corruption, for starters he incriminated himself about the Ukraine phone call, even without the 8 and 1/2 missing minutes and the important words he left out. And Trump's own lawyer openly copped to it.

BTW - how is it legal to ignore a subpoena in the US?

(Guardian : "Slight left bias but High for factual reporting due to proper sourcing and a clean fact check record" according to media bias fact check. I know you don't believe US media so...)

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/09/trump-government-executive-branch-rebecca-solnit

So at the top there’s corruption. But down below there’s dismantling and disarray. The Trump administration’s has a habit of firing or sidelining federal employees whose work is politically inconvenient.

https://www.citizensforethics.org/2000-trump-conflicts-of-interest-counting/

Toronto Star: Cutting out the Trump cancer won’t be easy or painless

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/09/trump-corruption-sharpiegate-hotel-biden.html

This is for only one month:

https://www.citizensforethics.org/trumps-corruption-month/

I could get many more links from multi sources. They are not all wrong.



The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes/ears. It was their final, most essential command Orwell 1984
Oscar D. Grouch
Posted: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 10:07:30 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/26/2014
Posts: 745
Neurons: 1,154,502
Hope123 wrote:
As for corruption, for starters he incriminated himself about the Ukraine phone call, even without the 8 and 1/2 missing minutes and the important words he left out. And Trump's own lawyer openly copped to it.

BTW - how is it legal to ignore a subpoena in the US?

(Guardian : "Slight left bias but High for factual reporting due to proper sourcing and a clean fact check record" according to media bias fact check. I know you don't believe US media so...)

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/09/trump-government-executive-branch-rebecca-solnit

So at the top there’s corruption. But down below there’s dismantling and disarray. The Trump administration’s has a habit of firing or sidelining federal employees whose work is politically inconvenient.

https://www.citizensforethics.org/2000-trump-conflicts-of-interest-counting/

Toronto Star: Cutting out the Trump cancer won’t be easy or painless

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/09/trump-corruption-sharpiegate-hotel-biden.html

This is for only one month:

https://www.citizensforethics.org/trumps-corruption-month/

I could get many more links from multi sources. They are not all wrong.



Let us not forget that little donny declared that he has the right to pardon himself.

Trump says he has ‘absolute right’ to pardon himself of federal crimes

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-says-he-has-absolute-right-to-pardon-himself-of-federal-crimes-but-denies-any-wrongdoing/2018/06/04/3d78348c-67dd-11e8-bea7-c8eb28bc52b1_story.html

These are the maniacal ramblings of a dictator, not a democratic president.

Can you you imagine the political backlash if Clinton declared he could pardon himself for lying to congress? The banana republicans would have come down on him like stink on a three day old tuna fish sandwich!
LogicDefined
Posted: Wednesday, October 30, 2019 10:33:27 PM
Rank: Newbie

Joined: 1/22/2015
Posts: 23
Neurons: 35,009
Hope123 wrote:
Gosh, how would I know about Trump's reporting of the Baghdadi raid? Oh, I dunno. I guess even the UK press must be Trump "haters".

The Guardian (UK) "Doubts over Donald Trump's dramatic account of Baghdadi raid"

BBC "Trump takes partisan line after raid"

NBC News "Officials cringed as Trump spilled sensitive details of al-Baghdadi raid"

Fox News "NPR accuses Trump of spiking the football"



And herein is Hope123's problem. Look at the sources she's offered. All FakeNews. ALL Trump-hating media, paid by George Soros, by the way. If I were a doctor, I would write a prescription for her: "Listen to Mark Levin, Sean Hannity back to back every day for one month. Read or watch nothing else. Listen to nothing else. By the end of the month, you will have all the answers to the questions you've asked regarding President Trump." If you would take this challenge, by the end of the month, you, too will be an avid supporter (not that it matters). Somehow, though, I don't believe you will accept the challenge. Why? Because you reject the truth everytime I, and others have posted here. It is as if you didn't even read what we've said. You ask the same questions over and over. You are satisfied believing the lies. You have chosen to believe a lie and no one can help you, but you. I cannot know why you would choose to reject the truth. Only you know why. You have to want and love the truth. And how do I know I know the truth? Because that is my mission. To know the truth as it sets us free. A lively debate is fun and challenging, but at some point, it becomes a waste of time as someone has to concede. Everyone has motives in life. I have come to a point where I really don't care how or what others think. If they appear to want the truth, I'll try to help. If the truth is presented, then rejected, I move on. And, yes. The UK media also hates him. Listen to Trump's speeches to NATO and the U.N. Then you will know why. They are not happy being cut-off the gravy train they've enjoyed at American taxpayers' expense. https://www.talkstreamlive.com/for your convenience if you decide to accept the challenge.

Wrong is wrong if everyone does it; Right is right if no one does it; and ALL are held accountable.
Lotje1000
Posted: Thursday, October 31, 2019 2:51:55 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 11/3/2014
Posts: 1,085
Neurons: 589,873
Location: Leuven, Flanders, Belgium
LogicDefined wrote:
And, yes. The UK media also hates him.


Don't forget the Belgian media. And, to be honest, most European news sources I come across. Man... This must be one truly global conspiracy against Trump.
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