So the scientist in me says why not divide the country into four sectors (for the bigger issues, not everything) and run an experiment for a year or so on the various idealogies. One will be the tea-party view; one the liberal view; one will be the status quo and one will be the compromise 50/50 down the middle view. As it so happens those views (for the most part) break down fairly well into South, East, Midwest and West views. For ex. four tax returns - one for each sector. That would give some evidence as to what works and would help break the political impasse.

So just brainstorming here. Your thoughts?

A great plan to put forward -and not only fitting for the U.S. But, how many would cross the line? Sometimes I think this chaos we have to put up with is anything but accidental.

It would be as difficult as establishing global solidarity on an issue -corporate responsibility, social justice or ecological sustainability. Only hope I will be proved wrong some day. Best.

Mercy, please don't leave me at the mercy of my fellow Southerners.

---

In the spring, at the end of the day, you should smell like dirt.--Mar Atwood

Well, not exactly. In my lifetime, 65 years, the White House has been occupied 34 years by a Republican/conservative president and only 31 years by a Democrat/liberal president. This is going back to Truman who was in office at the middle of the last century. Most of the deficit spending has occurred during a Republican president's term (Reagan & GW Bush).

---

"Always wash your hands and say your prayers for germs and Jesus are everywhere." -Naomi Judd

Well, it just goes to show how two people can watch the same accident and see two different things. I've viewed the situation for as long as you, but I believe the tea party isn't really fond of deficit spending, no matter who does it.

Also, if there truly was a difference between the parties for the last 50 years, the tea party wouldn't be calling down a pox on both parties would they? As an aside, do you really believe 16 trillion dollars of spending on Lyndon Johnson's War on Poverty would have been backed by the tea party?

Anyway, you say potato, I say, 'tater. No matter. Looks like we don't agree, and that's ok. Salute.

---

A great many people will think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices. ~ William James ~

The reality is that Reagan & GW Bush did run up the largest deficits during their terms. Try actually looking up the facts. It seems to me I hear nonsense over and over but it doesn't make it true. If you had spent time in Europe you would probably not be as critical of them either.

Why am I supposed to do your work, you could see dozens and you would still refute them because your bias wont allow anything else.

I have done my homework and my bias is not in evidence. You made the assertion: prove it.

There are a lot of liberal/conservative points to be made and they have been done in a variety of forums. But the focus of my proposal was to address a scientific solution and to break the political impasse.

So the science part first. Yes 10 years would be better but politically every 2/4 years is an experiment and between now and 2012 nothing is going to get accomplished. Yes - you (liberal/conservative) may be right -so why be afraid of an experiment which should prove your point? As for the four legs to the experiment won't work might I suggest an example (I could do others). Healthcare. Conservative view - No Obamacare AND tort reform. Liberal view - Obamacare AND NO tort reform. Status Quo view - No Obamacare and NO tort reform. Comprise view - Obamacare AND tort reform.

Now the political part. The tail that wags the dog in all of what will go on between 2012 and yet another 2 to 4 years is the filibuster rule. So the hypothetical for the conservatives who have responded most is this - what happens if the GOP wins the Presidency, keeps the house and gets a majority but not 60 GOP senators (30 Dems are not up for reelection so to get 60 senators the GOP would need to keep their 10 and win 14/23 from the Democrats). Paul Ryan's view passes the house, the President says he'll sign it. The GOP senators say yes - but the Dems say No we're going to filibuster). So aside from the we'll get 60/we'll change the filibuster rule - HOW does the Ryan bill get passed? I just think short of a landslide nothing's going to happen for another 4 years. Please - the we're right and they're wrong arguments are for other forums. How does the bill get passed - without compromise?

A majority DOESN'T get it done. With the filibuster there has to be a SUPERMAJORITY of 60 Senators. There's the rub. Without some compromise the status quo will remain.

Really? Is that interpretation of history part of the curriculum which teaches Creationism as well? In coming years, can we expect history, as written by the conservatives, to tell us that the GFC occurred under the watch of president Obama? And that he was a muslim and not even a US citizen?

When making statements, such as the quote above, an attempt at some sort of analysis, backed with some facts, would be helpful.

And give us specifics, please. Not meaningless and unsubstantiated generalisations.[/quote

Yes, meaningless and unsubstantiated generalisations (sic), such as yours, become quite tiresome.

While walking down the street one day, a Republican head of state is tragically hit by a truck and dies. His soul arrives in heaven and is met by St. Peter at the entrance.

"Welcome to Heaven," says St. Peter. "Before you settle in, it seems there is a problem. We seldom see a high official around these parts, you see, so we're not sure what to do with you."

"No problem, just let me in." says the Republican.

"Well, I'd like to but I have orders from higher up. What we'll do is have you spend one day in Hell and one in Heaven. Then you can choose where to spend eternity."

"Really, I've made up my mind. I want to be in Heaven," says the Republican head of state.

"I'm sorry but we have our rules." And with that, St. Peter escorts the Republican to the elevator and he goes down, down, down to Hell. The doors open and he finds himself in the middle of a green golf course. In the distance is a club and standing in front of it are all his friends and other politicians who had worked with him, everyone is very happy and in evening dress. They run to greet him, hug him, and reminisce about the good times they had while getting rich at expense of the people. They play a friendly game of golf and then dine on lobster and caviar. Also present is the Devil (a Republican, too), who really is a very friendly guy who has a good time dancing and telling jokes.

They are having such a good time that, before he realizes it, it is time to go. Everyone gives him a big hug and waves while the elevator
rises. The elevator goes up, up, up and the door reopens on Heaven where St. Peter is waiting for him.

"Now it's time to visit Heaven." So 24 hours pass with the Republican head of state joining a group of contented souls moving from cloud to cloud, playing the harp and singing. They have a good time and, before he realizes it, the 24 hours have gone by and St. Peter returns.

"Well then, you've spent a day in Hell and another in Heaven. Now choose your eternity."

He reflects for a minute, then the head of state answers: "Well, I would never have thought it, I mean Heaven has been delightful, but I think I would be better off in Hell."

So Saint Peter escorts him to the elevator and he goes down, down, down to Hell. Now the doors of the elevator open and he is in the middle of a barren land covered with waste and garbage. He sees all his friends, dressed in rags, picking up the trash and putting it in black bags. The Devil comes over to the Republican and lays an arm on his neck.

"I don't understand," stammers the Republican head of state. Yesterday I was here and there was a golf course and club and we ate lobster and caviar and danced and had a great time. Now all there is a wasteland full of garbage and my friends look miserable.

The Devil looks at him, smiles and says, "Yesterday we were campaigning. Today you voted for us!"

Source: http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/jokes/bljokerepublicanhell.htm

---

Forgiving is Love, Love is For Giving.

From: usgovernmentspending.com/federal_deficit_chart.html:

United State indebtedness by year since 2008:
2008: 500 billion
2009: 1.5 trillion
2010: 1.3 trillion
2011: 3.7 trillion
2012: 1.1 trillion

The current administration has racked up massive debts that will be cast upon the backs
of generations to come and has made our survival as a free society problematic. As for
vitriol, I like to think that I can return serve where warranted and find little to admire
in your persona. So what? In casting a political position smarminess should be the last
consideration.

I responded to your thought game in generalizations because I didn't take it seriously, and don't think you are serious either. After all, who would have the authority to divide the country as you suggest and force the citizens in each division into living under a system they do not agree with?

What would they do? Move to the area they do agree with, or remain for ten years under a system they do not want and had no say in having imposed upon them?

Why would one even suggest such an unworkable and unrealistic idea except to get folks arguing? For that reason, I ceased responding to any posts and suggest everyone else do the same. This is my last post on the topic. It has no merit.

---

A great many people will think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices. ~ William James ~

well that was a tedious exercise (following this post) UNTIL...Nowherenothere posted the jokes...Thanks NN I chuckled...Some folks take themselves and their opinions far too seriously....and aggressively at times...

The Buddha is reputed to have said: "People with opinions just go around bothering each other..." I am inclined to agree...

---

A Genie told me I could have one wish...Either a large Penis or a Long memory...I forget which one I chose. :)

I woke up early and read in the forum.
Sorry Joseph Glantz
Your brainstorming turned into a shootout.

---

Off to Singapore for a spell!

That's a great idea, the experiment.

But I think it's a time of emergency there in US and things are required in argent to happen. So, I won't suggest any experiments in this phase, they should be pospond on some other time.

There is another tool that could be helpful in this case and that is scenario planning. Every idea could be placed in novelty and could be examind with its pros and corns. But ludicrously much of it has aready done in debates, so quick fix and don't wait for 2012 or so on.

Obama has wasted a lot of time and money elswhere, no more.

---

*It's wonderful to know that all languages are Greek if not understood.*